I'm a 16 year old whistle player and I've been asked to form a chieldh band to play at a "space school" reunion. Problem is never having done a chieldh i don't know what tunes go together or with which dances :( I found a list of traditional sets on this site but that still doesn't help with dances. It would be immensly helpfull if you could maybe list one dance you've played and which tunes went with it so that I could begi to construct my set. I could do with all the help i could get, since the only time I've played a whistle not as part of a school concert was in celtic connectiosn this year, meaning I'm hardly a hardened proffesional :(
There is a list of Scottish Ceilidh dances with instructions and recommended tunes at http://www.scottishdance.net/ceilidh/dances.html.
From my experience of Ceilidhs in England these dances and tunes would be suitable in England as well. I don't know about irish Ceilidhs.
First, I assume you are talking about a céilidh (or céilí).
A lot of this depends on the type of dancing that will be there. If there is going to be "called" dancing (rather like square dancing), where someone teaches people how to do a simple dances (like the Walls of Limerick, etc), then just having sets of reels, jigs, and waltzes will be OK. (Walls of Limerick is danced to a reel)
If there is going to be organized set dancing, then you would need to know the specific tunes for the sets they're going to dance. If there's dancing, you should be able to get some direction from whomever is organizing the dancing. If there isn't going to be dancing, then it won't matter what you play.
If they're asking an inexperienced player to form the band, then it sounds like it is going to be an informal thing.
Unless I'm way off-track, this 'space school' reunion will be for 16-year olds who won't know how to dance any of the céilí sets. I'd suggest simply picking some good tune sets and take it from there.
Keep it all to 32 bars, AABB, whatever you choose. Do you have a caller/prompter/teacher for the dance side of things? If so, definitely involve them in any decisions. If that is the case ~ as others have already said ~ tell us more. Do you actually have a list of what dances you're expected to put sets together for ~ such as Irish ceili ~ "The Haymakers Jig", "Seige of Ennis", etc. ~ or Irish sets ~ "The Sliabh Luachra Polka Set", "The Caledonian", etc... The same questions would also apply if this is for a Scottish or English ceilidh... Usually a dance list is made up first, and then talk moves on to sets of tunes for the dances. It can also work both ways, if you have tune sets you are already comfortable with, then the person in charge of getting folks up to dance and helping them through it can, usually, set dances to your sets. 'Sets' needing, for dance, to generally be tunes of the same sort and size, such as 32 bar jigs...
Good luck, but please tell us more... The more we know, the more you will know and the better we'll be able to help...
Another dance option would be American ~ such as contras, where a lot of this music gets used for dancing, mostly 32 bar tunes... For dancers, as can also be true with many of the Irish and Scottish dances ~ despite the hard asses who might disagree ~ they can be 'walked'...
-I'm part of the NSYO, and as our annual camp is next week I'll be bale to find myself some other teenage musicians to help out.
-Noone ever spells it the same way on any site I've found. I mean good old scottish dancing.
-I probably missed out the very important fact that I'm from Scotland (somewhere near glasgow) so all school children are compulsarily taugh "social dacing". Everyone there should know:
-canadian barn dance
-strip the willow
-gay gordons
-dashing white sergent
-military two step
-st bernards waltz
Good old diverse education system :D
Actually I don't know any teenagers who don't know sottish dancing (given up on spelling c....dh) as it's sort of what we do at social events- you go on holiday with the school and you guarateed a good bit of dancing. I rather enjoy competitive strip the willow (orkney style) where you race the other partners up the line, doesn't half bruise your arms though.
Spellcheck keeps pulling me up, do you ignore it, or just not proofread ?
Anyway, if they are too mean to get in a caller, or whatever, then it'll go as well as it goes, and it's hardly your fault if you don't have the experience to start with. I have noticed that Scots seem to know those 5 or 6 dances without bother, it's just if you try to introduce them to anything unfamiliar they get confused and/or tetchy.
My big advice is to try to get them NOT to do the Gay Gordons in a line - if one person mistimes you can get serious Achilles tendon damage, as the person behind rakes you with their boot......tell them to each find their own individual space on the floor.
Spell check keeps telling me to spell my name as "airhead" (it's Mairead) so I tend to ignore it completly :D
Yeah, thats the scots for you. If we weren't taught it in school then it doesn't exist.
I think I've alwasy doen the gay gordons in a ring whereby you try to overtake everyone in front of you and knock other people down during the spin.
Oh since I'm here, can anyone name the dance thats done as 4 couples that stand in a sqaure, the girls dance in and turn, then teh boys dance in and turn. Then two boys pick up two girls and spin, then the other two do likewise. I think it started the same way as the dashing white sergent. Now that isa good dance. The aim seemed to be to remain on your feet for as long as possible...
Sorry, I just immediately assumed Irish. I can't help you out with any Scottish dances, unfortunately.
And if you don't mind an OT question or two, what exactly is NSYO? (I found a bunch of youth orchestras when I googled it), and what is "space school"? I automatically think of "space camp", which kids in the US sometimes attend, and go through some of the training that our astronauts go through. But I wasn't aware that there was much of a space program in Scotland (other than maybe James Doohan's exploits, but he was Canadian anyway).
As you are being 'saddled' with the lot, music and dance, go as basic as you can, and that would be real 'old-style', just one tune per dance. If you're feeling brave, maybe a set of two. DO NOT DO MORE!!! For your own dear sake. This is so last minute, and if you do manage to pull in a few others to lend a hand, having minimal tune changes will reduce stress... Just take it easy, as easy as you can. So, half a dozen dances, of different formation, and just the same number of tunes. Besides, that's also good exercise in getting intimate with the music and finding the places where you can have some fun and goose it a bit here and there.
If you are relaxed and having fun ~ the dancers are likely to also. If you are up tight, tense and worrying about too much, it will be hell for all... But, really, most dancers are pretty forgiving. Make sure to just ignore the occassional arsehole, if per chance you have one or two amongst your crew.
Having other musicians will help, as you can always chat about the whole thing after the fact, and minister to each other so that shock doesn't set in...
There are so many 'standard' and 'alternate possibilities' for tunes for the list you've given that you should have no problem, but if you do, ask... But hey, for St. Bernard's, while you could use just about any good waltz, the usual tune does it nicely, and is beautifully kitch too, good craic, something you would be in a sad state to take seriously...
Enjoy!!! Find places to let steam out with a laugh...
Is it the New Scottish Youth Orchestra? Which appears to have an annual 'Music Camp'. I don't get the 'space school' reunion ... ??? Also, how long have you got? When do you have to put this thing on? Are you 'Mog' on the NSYO bebo page? (That last one is just curiosity.)
if you have a caller, they should walk through the dance first so you get time to see the parts of it.
Ask the caller what sort of tune they want - jig,reel.waltz etc.
You need a tune collection with a good few of each type of tune.
Rule of thumb 1 - if you are going to play for 20 mins, you need enough tunes for twice that.
If you're calling the dances at the same time as leading the tunes on a whistle, then good luck. I do admire youthful 'can do' pluck ) . And don't worry, it can be just about done with preparation and some googling skills.
So, you are announcing dances that they already know, and then playing the tunes... So you want a list of those dances now, and a crib sheet to remind you how it goes in case of uncertainty, and next to each dance the title of either the required tune, that you already know fits and you can play already, or if not, the TYPE of tune that would do. And you can do the Gay Gordon's to 6/8 jigs and 4/4 marches (at least) so you can do it twice! And from what I remember back in 1972-3 (!) they'd rather do the same dances over and over again than have to learn a new one. Just try to do it to a different tune if you can, but if you've played a few tunes in between, hardly anyone will notice.
Assuming a real basic, nobody knows anything and one week to go deal:- Presumably, since it seems to be a music camp, you'll be able to have some sets of tunes, two to a page, for the less confident members of your band to read on music stands if they have to (not my normal recommendation, but when needs must...). You need to pick tunes that you can already play now, and keeping each set in the same key helps avoid upsets. Play each tune for as long as you can, then you might have some left over!
We've all had to do this at some point. Adrenaline and good luck to you. It will at least be a valuable learning curve for you. Next time you will be better prepared; and do not under any circumstances apologise to anybody for your best efforts.
yes to the NSYO being the music camp and me being MOG On the bebo page. Thats ratehr scary, that you can find all that to google. But well done Miss Marple :P
Space school seems to be some sort of incitive run by Careers Scotland and held at Strathclyde university. For what I gather they have a few meeting and a week long camp for children my age intrested in physics. Then some lucky person gets to go to NASA.
Thankyou ever so much for all teh fabulous advice, I shall mst definetly let oyu know how it goes.The good news is I pretty much have a band (minus the violin player) including a 'cello. (well I needed a bass instrument and bass guitar is just so cliche)
Do let us know miog, how it goes. And physics too ~ cool! And a CELLO!!!!!! It can be a real joy. In fact, for the times we've had that pleasure, we've never had a bad time. Oh yeah, there was the bloke with the sythesizer cello, but even that was fun. They used it with consideration for the rest of us... You can't ask more...
Just so you know, you've been in mind...
And, it isn't every thread that has dear Dow dropping in for comment. It's a good sign, good luck, like a four-leaf clover or a canary's song deep down in a dark cave...
My first Chieldh
My first Chieldh
I'm a 16 year old whistle player and I've been asked to form a chieldh band to play at a "space school" reunion. Problem is never having done a chieldh i don't know what tunes go together or with which dances :( I found a list of traditional sets on this site but that still doesn't help with dances. It would be immensly helpfull if you could maybe list one dance you've played and which tunes went with it so that I could begi to construct my set. I could do with all the help i could get, since the only time I've played a whistle not as part of a school concert was in celtic connectiosn this year, meaning I'm hardly a hardened proffesional :(
# Posted on July 2nd 2008 by miog
Re: My first Chieldh
There is a list of Scottish Ceilidh dances with instructions and recommended tunes at http://www.scottishdance.net/ceilidh/dances.html.
From my experience of Ceilidhs in England these dances and tunes would be suitable in England as well. I don't know about irish Ceilidhs.
# Posted on July 2nd 2008 by LowProfile
Re: My first Chieldh
First, I assume you are talking about a céilidh (or céilí).
A lot of this depends on the type of dancing that will be there. If there is going to be "called" dancing (rather like square dancing), where someone teaches people how to do a simple dances (like the Walls of Limerick, etc), then just having sets of reels, jigs, and waltzes will be OK. (Walls of Limerick is danced to a reel)
If there is going to be organized set dancing, then you would need to know the specific tunes for the sets they're going to dance. If there's dancing, you should be able to get some direction from whomever is organizing the dancing. If there isn't going to be dancing, then it won't matter what you play.
If they're asking an inexperienced player to form the band, then it sounds like it is going to be an informal thing.
# Posted on July 2nd 2008 by Reverend
Re: My first Chieldh
Oh my! All by your lonesome? No dance teacher, no caller, nothing? More details please!
Though it appears the good Reverend has all your possibilities covered already!
# Posted on July 2nd 2008 by SWFL Fiddler
Re: My first Chieldh
Unless I'm way off-track, this 'space school' reunion will be for 16-year olds who won't know how to dance any of the céilí sets. I'd suggest simply picking some good tune sets and take it from there.
# Posted on July 2nd 2008 by Floss the Tethers
Re: My first Chieldh
Keep it all to 32 bars, AABB, whatever you choose. Do you have a caller/prompter/teacher for the dance side of things? If so, definitely involve them in any decisions. If that is the case ~ as others have already said ~ tell us more. Do you actually have a list of what dances you're expected to put sets together for ~ such as Irish ceili ~ "The Haymakers Jig", "Seige of Ennis", etc. ~ or Irish sets ~ "The Sliabh Luachra Polka Set", "The Caledonian", etc... The same questions would also apply if this is for a Scottish or English ceilidh... Usually a dance list is made up first, and then talk moves on to sets of tunes for the dances. It can also work both ways, if you have tune sets you are already comfortable with, then the person in charge of getting folks up to dance and helping them through it can, usually, set dances to your sets. 'Sets' needing, for dance, to generally be tunes of the same sort and size, such as 32 bar jigs...
Good luck, but please tell us more... The more we know, the more you will know and the better we'll be able to help...
# Posted on July 2nd 2008 by ceolachan
Re: My first Chieldh
Another dance option would be American ~ such as contras, where a lot of this music gets used for dancing, mostly 32 bar tunes... For dancers, as can also be true with many of the Irish and Scottish dances ~ despite the hard asses who might disagree ~ they can be 'walked'...
# Posted on July 2nd 2008 by ceolachan
Re: My first Chieldh
Weel, weel chiel, fit like a'day then?
http://www.stooryduster.co.uk/Pages/chiel.htm
# Posted on July 2nd 2008 by Bren
Re: My first Chieldh
Okay more details:
-I'm part of the NSYO, and as our annual camp is next week I'll be bale to find myself some other teenage musicians to help out.
-Noone ever spells it the same way on any site I've found. I mean good old scottish dancing.
-I probably missed out the very important fact that I'm from Scotland (somewhere near glasgow) so all school children are compulsarily taugh "social dacing". Everyone there should know:
-canadian barn dance
-strip the willow
-gay gordons
-dashing white sergent
-military two step
-st bernards waltz
Good old diverse education system :D
Actually I don't know any teenagers who don't know sottish dancing (given up on spelling c....dh) as it's sort of what we do at social events- you go on holiday with the school and you guarateed a good bit of dancing. I rather enjoy competitive strip the willow (orkney style) where you race the other partners up the line, doesn't half bruise your arms though.
# Posted on July 3rd 2008 by miog
Re: My first Chieldh
Sorry forgot to say, I think I'm in charge of what dances we do. They wanted me to do it to save money, hiring a caller wouldn't be cheap.
# Posted on July 3rd 2008 by miog
Re: My first Chieldh
Thinking of you...
# Posted on July 3rd 2008 by john knoss
Re: My first Chieldh
Spellcheck keeps pulling me up, do you ignore it, or just not proofread ?
Anyway, if they are too mean to get in a caller, or whatever, then it'll go as well as it goes, and it's hardly your fault if you don't have the experience to start with. I have noticed that Scots seem to know those 5 or 6 dances without bother, it's just if you try to introduce them to anything unfamiliar they get confused and/or tetchy.
My big advice is to try to get them NOT to do the Gay Gordons in a line - if one person mistimes you can get serious Achilles tendon damage, as the person behind rakes you with their boot......tell them to each find their own individual space on the floor.
# Posted on July 3rd 2008 by Guernsey Pete
Re: My first Chieldh
Spell check keeps telling me to spell my name as "airhead" (it's Mairead) so I tend to ignore it completly :D
Yeah, thats the scots for you. If we weren't taught it in school then it doesn't exist.
I think I've alwasy doen the gay gordons in a ring whereby you try to overtake everyone in front of you and knock other people down during the spin.
Oh since I'm here, can anyone name the dance thats done as 4 couples that stand in a sqaure, the girls dance in and turn, then teh boys dance in and turn. Then two boys pick up two girls and spin, then the other two do likewise. I think it started the same way as the dashing white sergent. Now that isa good dance. The aim seemed to be to remain on your feet for as long as possible...
# Posted on July 3rd 2008 by miog
Re: My first Chieldh
Sorry, I just immediately assumed Irish. I can't help you out with any Scottish dances, unfortunately.
And if you don't mind an OT question or two, what exactly is NSYO? (I found a bunch of youth orchestras when I googled it), and what is "space school"? I automatically think of "space camp", which kids in the US sometimes attend, and go through some of the training that our astronauts go through. But I wasn't aware that there was much of a space program in Scotland (other than maybe James Doohan's exploits, but he was Canadian anyway).
# Posted on July 3rd 2008 by Reverend
Re: My first Chieldh
An 8-Hand Reel...probably "The Eightsome Reel", and there are variations but all have similar content...
# Posted on July 3rd 2008 by ceolachan
Re: My first Chieldh
As you are being 'saddled' with the lot, music and dance, go as basic as you can, and that would be real 'old-style', just one tune per dance. If you're feeling brave, maybe a set of two. DO NOT DO MORE!!! For your own dear sake. This is so last minute, and if you do manage to pull in a few others to lend a hand, having minimal tune changes will reduce stress... Just take it easy, as easy as you can. So, half a dozen dances, of different formation, and just the same number of tunes. Besides, that's also good exercise in getting intimate with the music and finding the places where you can have some fun and goose it a bit here and there.
If you are relaxed and having fun ~ the dancers are likely to also. If you are up tight, tense and worrying about too much, it will be hell for all... But, really, most dancers are pretty forgiving. Make sure to just ignore the occassional arsehole, if per chance you have one or two amongst your crew.
Having other musicians will help, as you can always chat about the whole thing after the fact, and minister to each other so that shock doesn't set in...
There are so many 'standard' and 'alternate possibilities' for tunes for the list you've given that you should have no problem, but if you do, ask... But hey, for St. Bernard's, while you could use just about any good waltz, the usual tune does it nicely, and is beautifully kitch too, good craic, something you would be in a sad state to take seriously...
Enjoy!!! Find places to let steam out with a laugh...
# Posted on July 3rd 2008 by ceolachan
Re: My first Chieldh
Is it the New Scottish Youth Orchestra? Which appears to have an annual 'Music Camp'. I don't get the 'space school' reunion ... ??? Also, how long have you got? When do you have to put this thing on? Are you 'Mog' on the NSYO bebo page? (That last one is just curiosity.)
# Posted on July 3rd 2008 by benhall.1
Re: My first Chieldh
if you have a caller, they should walk through the dance first so you get time to see the parts of it.
Ask the caller what sort of tune they want - jig,reel.waltz etc.
You need a tune collection with a good few of each type of tune.
Rule of thumb 1 - if you are going to play for 20 mins, you need enough tunes for twice that.
Rule 2 - start slower than you mean to.
# Posted on July 4th 2008 by geoffwright
Re: My first Chieldh
If you're calling the dances at the same time as leading the tunes on a whistle, then good luck. I do admire youthful 'can do' pluck
) . And don't worry, it can be just about done with preparation and some googling skills.
So, you are announcing dances that they already know, and then playing the tunes... So you want a list of those dances now, and a crib sheet to remind you how it goes in case of uncertainty, and next to each dance the title of either the required tune, that you already know fits and you can play already, or if not, the TYPE of tune that would do. And you can do the Gay Gordon's to 6/8 jigs and 4/4 marches (at least) so you can do it twice! And from what I remember back in 1972-3 (!) they'd rather do the same dances over and over again than have to learn a new one. Just try to do it to a different tune if you can, but if you've played a few tunes in between, hardly anyone will notice.
Assuming a real basic, nobody knows anything and one week to go deal:- Presumably, since it seems to be a music camp, you'll be able to have some sets of tunes, two to a page, for the less confident members of your band to read on music stands if they have to (not my normal recommendation, but when needs must...). You need to pick tunes that you can already play now, and keeping each set in the same key helps avoid upsets. Play each tune for as long as you can, then you might have some left over!
We've all had to do this at some point. Adrenaline and good luck to you. It will at least be a valuable learning curve for you. Next time you will be better prepared; and do not under any circumstances apologise to anybody for your best efforts.
# Posted on July 7th 2008 by Chrisp
Re: My first Chieldh
yes to the NSYO being the music camp and me being MOG On the bebo page. Thats ratehr scary, that you can find all that to google. But well done Miss Marple :P
Space school seems to be some sort of incitive run by Careers Scotland and held at Strathclyde university. For what I gather they have a few meeting and a week long camp for children my age intrested in physics. Then some lucky person gets to go to NASA.
Thankyou ever so much for all teh fabulous advice, I shall mst definetly let oyu know how it goes.The good news is I pretty much have a band (minus the violin player) including a 'cello. (well I needed a bass instrument and bass guitar is just so cliche)
# Posted on July 7th 2008 by miog
Re: My first Chieldh
You're far too young to be having children at 16.
# Posted on July 7th 2008 by Dow
Re: My first Chieldh
What? I never said anything about having children? Did i?
# Posted on July 7th 2008 by miog
Re: My first Chieldh
No. Um. Never mind.
# Posted on July 7th 2008 by Dow
Re: My first Chieldh
Actually, Dow, I think you'll find that it is perfectly legal to have chieldhren at sixteen in Scotland.
# Posted on July 9th 2008 by mutatis mutandis
Re: My first Chieldh
Lovely comment Chrisp...
Do let us know miog, how it goes. And physics too ~ cool! And a CELLO!!!!!! It can be a real joy. In fact, for the times we've had that pleasure, we've never had a bad time. Oh yeah, there was the bloke with the sythesizer cello, but even that was fun. They used it with consideration for the rest of us... You can't ask more...
Just so you know, you've been in mind...
And, it isn't every thread that has dear Dow dropping in for comment. It's a good sign, good luck, like a four-leaf clover or a canary's song deep down in a dark cave...
# Posted on July 9th 2008 by ceolachan