There is some spirit in the playing of this duo, but they sound bored --like they have played this set so many times that they are just going though the motions, racing for the finish line.
Sorry, this link doesn't work. What I was referring to can be found with the link Mairtin gave. See 'related videos' on the right side > John Ryan's/Denis Murphy's polka
My question was only about the tune itself, but fair play if some of you want to criticize the young players. I've seen a few of their clips and really enjoyed the spirit of them. They don't seem at all up themselves about their playing and would possibly appreciate some advice.
How about you Michael, can you be more specific about the problems you see? leoj and Henk both thought they were playing too fast...
The tune in the video is similar, but has some important differences from the one posted here. It's a nicer version, I think - it has fewer similarities with other tunes.
Yes, the playing is a bit rushed and scruffy, but they play all the notes and don't try anything clever. And they've given me a tune I hadn't heard before. Fair play to them. I'll post their version in the comments to The Girls of the Town.
'BUT these guys are still young and deserve and need positive criticism'.
Sure, and I would add: and perhaps a little negative criticism at times too. As long as it's to the point. I've had plenty of postive comments on my playing throughout the years (the usal 'that was great', even when I knew it was rubbish), but I've learnt a lot from the few times that better players were honest enough to tell me what they really heard. Not big fun at that time, but it surely made me a better player.
Are those making negative comments about the playing evaluating it in the context of Irish traditional playing or the Newfoundland tradition? Though they share lots of tunes, the styles are very different.
Regarding tempo, though they are playing quite fast by Irish standards, they may be a bit on the slow side for their own tradition. Compare with http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ek33oGb8uZ4 .
A humble (and probably useless) observation: They seem to treasure speed over anything else. A better approach might be to develop the tune at a slower speed to inject feeling and oomph into it, and then speed it up, keeping those intangibles they injected into it at a slower speed. It's hard to apply nyah and lift once it's at Mach 10, those need to get in earlier so they can be kept once light speed is achieved. Light speed without oomph or feeling appears to be the issue.
They play very nicely, just a little speedy and without much 'soul'. Ah, those messy intangibles.
"Regarding tempo, though they are playing quite fast by Irish standards, they may be a bit on the slow side for their own tradition. Compare with http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ek33oGb8uZ4 ."
Yeah, that's pretty much modern ceili band speed, there's no concern for any intangibles, just GO GO GO! Mach 47 and damn the torpedoes. Get in, sit down and hold on.
I'm rather uninformed about the music in Newfoundland (and Cape Breton, for that matter). Gary, are you saying that they're playing Irish tunes in a Newfoundland traditional style? Or are they trying to play Irish music as the Irish would, but their playing is influenced by their own traditional music?
If anyone cares the middle tune is called "Off She Goes"
To me there playing was good, but a bit too choppy. I mainly noticed this when they played long notes, it seemed like they were playing a short note with a rest after it instead of holding the note for its full length.
Also as mentioned above, it didn't have much soul, but that is a very hard thing to measure.
I've heard a lot worse than that. Jigs 1 and 3 were too fast for my taste, but I thought Off She Goes worked ok because it's a sparser jig, and they played it more like the speed of a slide. If they chose different tunes to put either side and played them as fast single jigs or slides or whatever (don't wanna get into that debate again ) that set would be much more effective. I would suggest as an alternative tune to put with Off She Goes something like Behind The Bush In The Garden http://www.thesession.org/tunes/display.php/1888 and other tunes along those lines. Can't think of any off the top of my head. Dunno, even something like the Miller's Maggot has the potential to work better than one of the busier jigs.
Gary's on the right track, their playing would be pretty standard speed for a Newfoundland "jig", and on the slow side for many.
Newfoundland has both plenty of Irish tunes in their native repertoire and plenty of people today who play ITM. I've no idea which these kids are trying to do, but it certainly gives the impression they've been listening / learning from old Newfoundland-style accordion players.
Pete, I'm saying they're playing Irish tunes in traditional Newfoundland style. For comparison, listen to Christina Smith and Jean Hewson playing a pair of jigs by clicking on track 7 at: http://www.borealisrecords.com/cd_august_gale.html
Both are extremely highly regarded in the traditional Newfoundland music world.
Note that those two jigs (from Christina and Jean's album) are from Frank Maher, who plays accordion on the track. He learned them when he was a boy in one of the Irish neighborhoods of St John's back in the 1940s. The first is a version of http://www.thesession.org/tunes/display/1077 ("Munster Buttermilk", played in D); the second is some crazy crooked thing.
Name some jigs
Name some jigs
Morning all!
I'm learning the first jig in this set played by Mike and Renee Batten of Newfoundland -
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YpqRz5Q5ZBE
- they call it Donnelly's, but I can't find it in the database. Does anyone know it by another name?
If you can confirm the last one is Father O'Flynn, that'd be grand as well.
Cheers
Martin
# Posted on July 2nd 2008 by Mairtin Lom
Re: Name some jigs
ordinarily I'd be suggesting you learn from the video rather than trying to find the music. But that's such awful playing I'm not sure what to suggest
# Posted on July 2nd 2008 by llig leahcim
Re: Name some jigs
The last one is Father O'Flynn (aka Top Of Cork Road)
Not heard the first one before.
Thanks for posting this - I collect everything these two do. They're a great inspiration. Wish I had a sister that played like that.
Eno
# Posted on July 2nd 2008 by bc_box_player
Re: Name some jigs
How about the Girls of the Town:
http://www.thesession.org/tunes/display.php/6853
# Posted on July 2nd 2008 by Bleedin' Heart
Re: Name some jigs
There is some spirit in the playing of this duo, but they sound bored --like they have played this set so many times that they are just going though the motions, racing for the finish line.
# Posted on July 2nd 2008 by leoj
Re: Name some jigs
It's very easy to be negative about someone else's playing, but I second Michael's opinion here. This tempo is way too fast for them.
And if I would put something on You Tube I would start with tuning the instruments:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?=_xo2nsct4so&feature=related
# Posted on July 2nd 2008 by Henk Bos
Re: Name some jigs
Sorry, this link doesn't work. What I was referring to can be found with the link Mairtin gave. See 'related videos' on the right side > John Ryan's/Denis Murphy's polka
# Posted on July 2nd 2008 by Henk Bos
Re: Name some jigs
They are just youngsters, they may end up learning a lot more than you you a**h**es
# Posted on July 2nd 2008 by bogman
Re: Name some jigs
Sorry, that last word was not necessary.
# Posted on July 2nd 2008 by bogman
Re: Name some jigs
No offense taken, Bogman. You might be right, but only if they learn to be a bit more self critical.
Couldn't read your post anyway with all those ** ** ;)
# Posted on July 2nd 2008 by Henk Bos
Re: Name some jigs
I must remember not to post in the mornings. BUT these guys are still young and deserve and need positive criticism
# Posted on July 2nd 2008 by bogman
Re: Name some jigs
My question was only about the tune itself, but fair play if some of you want to criticize the young players. I've seen a few of their clips and really enjoyed the spirit of them. They don't seem at all up themselves about their playing and would possibly appreciate some advice.
How about you Michael, can you be more specific about the problems you see? leoj and Henk both thought they were playing too fast...
# Posted on July 2nd 2008 by Mairtin Lom
Re: Name some jigs
Back to the subject in hand:
"How about the Girls of the Town:
http://www.thesession.org/tunes/display.php/6853 "
The tune in the video is similar, but has some important differences from the one posted here. It's a nicer version, I think - it has fewer similarities with other tunes.
Yes, the playing is a bit rushed and scruffy, but they play all the notes and don't try anything clever. And they've given me a tune I hadn't heard before. Fair play to them. I'll post their version in the comments to The Girls of the Town.
# Posted on July 2nd 2008 by granama
Re: Name some jigs
Bogman, you wrote:
'BUT these guys are still young and deserve and need positive criticism'.
Sure, and I would add: and perhaps a little negative criticism at times too. As long as it's to the point. I've had plenty of postive comments on my playing throughout the years (the usal 'that was great', even when I knew it was rubbish), but I've learnt a lot from the few times that better players were honest enough to tell me what they really heard. Not big fun at that time, but it surely made me a better player.
# Posted on July 2nd 2008 by Henk Bos
Re: Name some jigs
Are those making negative comments about the playing evaluating it in the context of Irish traditional playing or the Newfoundland tradition? Though they share lots of tunes, the styles are very different.
Regarding tempo, though they are playing quite fast by Irish standards, they may be a bit on the slow side for their own tradition. Compare with http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ek33oGb8uZ4 .
# Posted on July 2nd 2008 by GaryAMartin
Re: Name some jigs
Good comment, Gary, worth to take note of. But, apart from that: they don't just play very fast, but they are also stumbling here and there.
# Posted on July 2nd 2008 by Henk Bos
Re: Name some jigs
The beat is what counts and that is good and steady.
# Posted on July 2nd 2008 by baglady
Re: Name some jigs
A humble (and probably useless) observation: They seem to treasure speed over anything else. A better approach might be to develop the tune at a slower speed to inject feeling and oomph into it, and then speed it up, keeping those intangibles they injected into it at a slower speed. It's hard to apply nyah and lift once it's at Mach 10, those need to get in earlier so they can be kept once light speed is achieved. Light speed without oomph or feeling appears to be the issue.
They play very nicely, just a little speedy and without much 'soul'. Ah, those messy intangibles.
# Posted on July 2nd 2008 by SWFL Fiddler
Re: Name some jigs
...not that I'm any genius, I'm always on safari for the Great Spotted Nyah.
# Posted on July 2nd 2008 by SWFL Fiddler
Re: Name some jigs
"Regarding tempo, though they are playing quite fast by Irish standards, they may be a bit on the slow side for their own tradition. Compare with http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ek33oGb8uZ4 ."
I prefer Renee and Mike.
# Posted on July 2nd 2008 by granama
Re: Name some jigs
Yeah, that's pretty much modern ceili band speed, there's no concern for any intangibles, just GO GO GO! Mach 47 and damn the torpedoes. Get in, sit down and hold on.
# Posted on July 2nd 2008 by SWFL Fiddler
Re: Name some jigs
I'm rather uninformed about the music in Newfoundland (and Cape Breton, for that matter). Gary, are you saying that they're playing Irish tunes in a Newfoundland traditional style? Or are they trying to play Irish music as the Irish would, but their playing is influenced by their own traditional music?
# Posted on July 2nd 2008 by Reverend
Re: Name some jigs
If anyone cares the middle tune is called "Off She Goes"
To me there playing was good, but a bit too choppy. I mainly noticed this when they played long notes, it seemed like they were playing a short note with a rest after it instead of holding the note for its full length.
Also as mentioned above, it didn't have much soul, but that is a very hard thing to measure.
Arlo
# Posted on July 2nd 2008 by Fellenbaum
Re: Name some jigs
I've heard a lot worse than that. Jigs 1 and 3 were too fast for my taste, but I thought Off She Goes worked ok because it's a sparser jig, and they played it more like the speed of a slide. If they chose different tunes to put either side and played them as fast single jigs or slides or whatever (don't wanna get into that debate again
) that set would be much more effective. I would suggest as an alternative tune to put with Off She Goes something like Behind The Bush In The Garden http://www.thesession.org/tunes/display.php/1888 and other tunes along those lines. Can't think of any off the top of my head. Dunno, even something like the Miller's Maggot has the potential to work better than one of the busier jigs.
# Posted on July 2nd 2008 by Dow
Re: Name some jigs
Tunes like Scully Casey's http://www.thesession.org/tunes/display/1790 would work in the set as well. Or something like My Love In The Morning http://www.thesession.org/tunes/display/1680. These are tunes you hear played in different styles - as straight-forward slides, as fast & driving, or slow and sparse single jigs.
# Posted on July 2nd 2008 by Dow
Re: Name some jigs
Gary's on the right track, their playing would be pretty standard speed for a Newfoundland "jig", and on the slow side for many.
Newfoundland has both plenty of Irish tunes in their native repertoire and plenty of people today who play ITM. I've no idea which these kids are trying to do, but it certainly gives the impression they've been listening / learning from old Newfoundland-style accordion players.
# Posted on July 2nd 2008 by Sol Foster
Re: Name some jigs
Pete, I'm saying they're playing Irish tunes in traditional Newfoundland style. For comparison, listen to Christina Smith and Jean Hewson playing a pair of jigs by clicking on track 7 at:
http://www.borealisrecords.com/cd_august_gale.html
Both are extremely highly regarded in the traditional Newfoundland music world.
# Posted on July 2nd 2008 by GaryAMartin
Re: Name some jigs
Thanks, Gary. Interesting stuff
# Posted on July 2nd 2008 by Reverend
Re: Name some jigs
Note that those two jigs (from Christina and Jean's album) are from Frank Maher, who plays accordion on the track. He learned them when he was a boy in one of the Irish neighborhoods of St John's back in the 1940s. The first is a version of http://www.thesession.org/tunes/display/1077 ("Munster Buttermilk", played in D); the second is some crazy crooked thing.
# Posted on July 2nd 2008 by Sol Foster