In my city there are apparently no tutorials for tin whistle, so I have been learning from instruction books, CDs, the Internet... It seems a couple of my books differ on how to properly play a roll/cran, and since watching Whistle Tutor last night I am even further confused. My questions:
- Is there a standard/universally understood way to play short and long rolls, short and long crans, triple rolls etc. or do people adapt their own ways?
- Short rolls... do you play the cut first or the melody note itself (I mean are they different in structure from long rolls or just in the timing?)
- What are triple rolls?
- Can you incorporate rolls into fast moving phrases or are they best reserved for quarter/dotted quarter notes?
I want to be sure I am not picking up poor habits in the structure of my ornamentation, and as for the timing I am just completely bewildered (eg. on a dotted quarter how long do you hold it before it is followed with the cutting and tapping). Videos I'm afraid haven't been much help when it comes to the timing factor because they move much too quickly...
Yes, long rolls and short rolls are the same structure, it's all the the timing and the placing. Short rolls are the easiest to get because they sound a bit like the triplet/treble thing you hear on an instrument like a banjo. The long roll is more languid and many people have slightly different styles to their rhythm.
You are right that a video is not much help. But you don't want to be looking how the music goes anyway, you want to be hearing it.
Try acquiring as many recordings as possible and start listening. It will help you get a feel for how the music should sound.
At some point, finding a festival you can attend and getting some tuition will be very helpful. Also, there may be other players in your area. The Chiff and Fipple message board (http://chiffboard.mati.ca) has a forum where people can announce their location and this board allows you to search for sessions near you.
It's quite hard to explain timing in words. I'm going to leave that to the more well-qualified teachers who post here rather than stumble through it myself.
Matt Molloys Heathery Breeze is the tops really, though he does so much more than rolls so it can be quite daunting for a beginner to decipher. But there is a track of three jigs he plays really slow. This is an excellent place to really get to grips with the slow roll.
I've no idea what a triple roll might be, but it might be either a "double-cut roll" (no sandwich joke this: it's where you cut twice and tap once, if you like fussy nervous-sounding rolls) or a long roll immediately followed by another grace (cut), or maybe two short rolls in succession.
Terminology is immaterial, listening is what you need, as Michael points out.
I assume you're aware of these pages - basic rolls covered pretty well, never got around to doing short rolls, swung rolls and all the rest.
If you don't have the Grey Larsen book (The Essential Guide to Irish Flute and Tin Whistle), get it... It comes with 2 CDs with lots of demos. I just spent a week with Grey Larsen at the Timber Flute Festival - he's a good teacher and his book is great.
I remember figuring out rolls all by myself, and completely wrong, of course! If there's no regular tuition to be had locally, I'd get myself to a week-long music school with a good teacher to get off on the right foot.
Rolls are fairly essential (OK, maybe Micho Russell never learned them, and it didn't stop him becoming a legend !). Crans, I think, may or may not suit your style. I suppose they are essential piping ornaments, but not essential on the flute and whistle. Matt Molloy was mentioned above. If you listen to his eponymous first album, his playing is full of crans, but this was drastically reduced on later records, possibly because of his tremendous influence- he realized that everyone was trying to play like him and couldn't always manage it.
Rolls and Crans
Rolls and Crans
In my city there are apparently no tutorials for tin whistle, so I have been learning from instruction books, CDs, the Internet... It seems a couple of my books differ on how to properly play a roll/cran, and since watching Whistle Tutor last night I am even further confused. My questions:
- Is there a standard/universally understood way to play short and long rolls, short and long crans, triple rolls etc. or do people adapt their own ways?
- Short rolls... do you play the cut first or the melody note itself (I mean are they different in structure from long rolls or just in the timing?)
- What are triple rolls?
- Can you incorporate rolls into fast moving phrases or are they best reserved for quarter/dotted quarter notes?
I want to be sure I am not picking up poor habits in the structure of my ornamentation, and as for the timing I am just completely bewildered (eg. on a dotted quarter how long do you hold it before it is followed with the cutting and tapping). Videos I'm afraid haven't been much help when it comes to the timing factor because they move much too quickly...
# Posted on July 1st 2008 by Klosephine
Re: Rolls and Crans
Yes, long rolls and short rolls are the same structure, it's all the the timing and the placing. Short rolls are the easiest to get because they sound a bit like the triplet/treble thing you hear on an instrument like a banjo. The long roll is more languid and many people have slightly different styles to their rhythm.
You are right that a video is not much help. But you don't want to be looking how the music goes anyway, you want to be hearing it.
Yes, long
# Posted on July 2nd 2008 by llig leahcim
Re: Rolls and Crans
Try acquiring as many recordings as possible and start listening. It will help you get a feel for how the music should sound.
At some point, finding a festival you can attend and getting some tuition will be very helpful. Also, there may be other players in your area. The Chiff and Fipple message board (http://chiffboard.mati.ca) has a forum where people can announce their location and this board allows you to search for sessions near you.
It's quite hard to explain timing in words. I'm going to leave that to the more well-qualified teachers who post here rather than stumble through it myself.
# Posted on July 2nd 2008 by TheSilverSpear
Re: Rolls and Crans
Thank you for your advice, both! Any favorites to recommend as far as recordings?
# Posted on July 2nd 2008 by Klosephine
Re: Rolls and Crans
Matt Molloys Heathery Breeze is the tops really, though he does so much more than rolls so it can be quite daunting for a beginner to decipher. But there is a track of three jigs he plays really slow. This is an excellent place to really get to grips with the slow roll.
# Posted on July 2nd 2008 by llig leahcim
Re: Rolls and Crans
I've no idea what a triple roll might be, but it might be either a "double-cut roll" (no sandwich joke this: it's where you cut twice and tap once, if you like fussy nervous-sounding rolls) or a long roll immediately followed by another grace (cut), or maybe two short rolls in succession.
Terminology is immaterial, listening is what you need, as Michael points out.
I assume you're aware of these pages - basic rolls covered pretty well, never got around to doing short rolls, swung rolls and all the rest.
http://www.rogermillington.com/siamsa/brosteve/
# Posted on July 2nd 2008 by Jeeves Tones
Re: Rolls and Crans
If you don't have the Grey Larsen book (The Essential Guide to Irish Flute and Tin Whistle), get it... It comes with 2 CDs with lots of demos. I just spent a week with Grey Larsen at the Timber Flute Festival - he's a good teacher and his book is great.
# Posted on July 2nd 2008 by plunk111
Re: Rolls and Crans
I remember figuring out rolls all by myself, and completely wrong, of course! If there's no regular tuition to be had locally, I'd get myself to a week-long music school with a good teacher to get off on the right foot.
Rolls are fairly essential (OK, maybe Micho Russell never learned them, and it didn't stop him becoming a legend !). Crans, I think, may or may not suit your style. I suppose they are essential piping ornaments, but not essential on the flute and whistle. Matt Molloy was mentioned above. If you listen to his eponymous first album, his playing is full of crans, but this was drastically reduced on later records, possibly because of his tremendous influence- he realized that everyone was trying to play like him and couldn't always manage it.
# Posted on July 3rd 2008 by de Selby