If one begins with a D major scale flute or whistle, one can usually adapt to G major as well with alternate fingering for the C nat. I find it impossible to get myself to use C major finger positions on a C major bamboo flute that I have acquired after working with a low D instrument. (I suspect that I could condition myself to use C major finger positions, but would then likely cease to play the D major instrument with proper fingering.)
I find that I continue to use D major finger positions, and have to play very slowly with some thought to use C major finger positions, although the C major flute seems to be an instrument that could be more naturally adapted to a variety of keys by half holing a tone hole to produce an enharmonic version of a note (not uncommon in the traditional flute music of some other cultures employing primitive, six holed flutes).
I know that shifting to instruments in different keys is quite common with whistles, but in doing so, do most traditional musicians also change their finger positions to play the true notes on non-D major instruments, or do they typically transpose a work to a different key while using D major finger positions on an instrument with a different scale, for example, D to C, E to D, F# to E, etc.with D major instrument finger positions on a C major flute?
When switching between different flutes and whistles, most players just play as if they were still in D. Often, the reason to change keys is simply for a different sound. Another reason would be to transpose a tune to match other instruments. One example of using a C instrument would be for a tune like Julia Delaney--fingered as if it were in E dorian on a C flute or whistle, the tune comes out in D dorian, matching the fiddles.
I would suggest sticking to the standard fingerings, as for the D whistle, where you have the keys of D, G with a C natural fingering, and A with a single half-hole required for the occasional Gsharp. You just have to remember the related keys you can play in on any key of whistle.
I wrote out a card for my SO, who claims to be musically illiterate, to remind her what keys she can play on any of her brace of whistles; occasionally, as for a song I sing in F, it sounds better to play it on a Bb whistle than a C.
The hardest thing I find is to work with a singer who pitches their songs to the semitone, using guitar accessories like the capo, and whistle players have to struggle to keep up with all their changes - oh, for a whistle capo !
Oh and as far as using the different whistles - just transpose everything you learn into a key you can play on the D Whistle and learn it like that. Then pick up the appropriate other whistle and play it as if it was a D whistle with the fingerings you've learnt and the tune will come out in the appropriate other key.
Some things are worth knowing like:
Eflat whistle for playing along with Bflat scottish pipes - but the pipes may not actually be BFlat usually they are higher nowadays. Also used in Eflat sessions.
C Whistle for playing Julia Delaney. This is the main whistle you will be using in sessions after your D Whistle.
Low D Whistle - completely different instrument.
low A/G/Fwhistles - very useful for accompanying male voice singers.
I'm actualy speaking as it were for my SO; being a fretted instrument player myself I can just pop on the capo, but I have to read the other musicians' key and pass it on the SO, who then fumbles through her bandolero of pipes, to find the right one; I think she now has A, Bb, C, D, Eb, and F, plus open-hole flute. I don't see why she can complain about my Instrument Acquisition Syndrome after all that lot, except that mine cost a bit/lot more !
It is actually a lot easier with dots since you just look at the sharps/flat in the signature and choose the apropriate whistle. You don't really care if it is D-Major, B minor, E Dorian etc - you just care which notes your whistle can play and which notes are in the music. Guitar players/singers I know have an irritating habit of saying "it's in B" without making it clear wht they mean.
It is usually clear once they start playing, but it helps to already have the correct whistle at the start of the tune.
The best diddley whistle player I know has one generation D. It's all they need. If you shut your eyes when they're playing tunes in Gmin Dmin, Amaj, C maj etc, you'd swear it was different whistles.
If someone in a session says they are gonna play a tune in B, unless it's a partiucular set of flat pipes, they are an idiot if it's not gonna Bmin
Yes, but, you know what; if you never play a guitar or other chord based instrument or haven't had any formal training then you really don't know what all these keys are. And all you really want is a quick guide to tell you which whistle to have in your hand so that you can play the tune by ear. Without half of it having gone by before you get a suitable whistle out.
And the worst culprits with the dodgy key naming are actually the self-accompanied singers where B does not necessarily mean Bmin... And don't ask me why a whistle player might be interested in what key a singer is in. And one friend of mine had an annoying habit of changing his mind and shifting his capo once we'd got everything else sorted. ("sounds a bit better a bit lower..." whine, moan...) This isn't always in a session context either.
And a whistle player that can play lots of keys on one whistle has talent - more than most whistle players that I have known. (I've never yet met a whistle player without WhOA disorder.) You, Llig, must be blessed with a much higher quality of musician in your vicinity than I am. Lucky you.
Doing the same on a keyless flute is a necessity for many flute players due to the high cost of flutes in different keys and the danger of lots of flutes sitting on a pub table. The answer on the flute is of course keys... The answer for _most_ whistle players is; get more whistles.
"The hardest thing I find is to work with a singer who pitches their songs to the semitone"
The other day, I was in a session with a fine singer/guitarist who was pitched to the *quarter tone*. She begged us all to accompany her - a tall order, even on a chromatic instrument like the mandolin. Not wanting to disappoint, I did my best. I explained to her afterwards, the reason I wasn't playing very many notes was that I was having to bend every note to get in tune with her.
You know, I bought my first whistle through the mail from Clarke, largely because it was cheap, and I doubted I had the talent to learn even the rudiments of playing it. I got a little sheet of paper with the fingering for various notes that came with it. It indicated lots of notes on a D major whistle that were not in the key of D major by means of half holing.
I rolled my eyes and decided to just focus on D major. I still wonder if a C major whistle would have been a more logical approach for general music, given that one need merely half hole what would be a fully closed hole for the natural version of a note to play the sharp version of that same note. Very simple. Very logical.
The price for D major on a C flute would have been to develop a facility to half hole F and D, with the latter already a requirement for G major, a common key in the ITM whistle repertoire. End of whistle acquisition syndrome predicated upon a need for whistles in different keys. How much could half holing an occassional note really slow down a skilled player? (Not a title I can claim, just a thought.) Would tonal variation due to half holing with a C major whistle rather than playing comfortably on a D major whistle truly be that great with practice?
Well, at least as far as trad tunes are concerned, one major obstacle to what Arthur suggests is that you can't tap/strike a half-holed note, which eliminates that ornament and every kind of roll in one fell swoop.
Actually on a C Whistle you would need to half hole c natural to get c#. And there I wish you good luck (go and try to half hole D#/Eb on the D whistle...)
And whatever a fingering chart may say, half holed notes are rarely accurately in tune and even less so at speed. They are ok for notes that pass quickly and/or are unstressed but otherwise...
And F# and c# don't really count as "occasional notes" in much of this music. They are everywhere. Lots of them.
"Crackpot", you are correct with regard to my mis-statement of the enharmonic notes of the D major scale. They are "C#" and "F#" and NOT F and D, although the reference I made to "F" was intended in terms of an enharmonic.
When bending a note, one slowly shifts a finger off the lowest hole that has a finger on it to create a slow shift upward from the note with that hole fully blocked to the next higher tone hole note. In this context, to get "C#" with a C major scale whistle, one half holes the base hole. To get "F#" with a C major scale whistle, one half holes the "F" hole. To get "Bb" with a C major scale whistle, one employs an alternate fingering, as with the "C#" note with a D major scale whistle.
I agree that getting consistent tone using half holing could be challenging and would demand practice to pull it off with any pace, but getting a consistent tone based upon pressure levels during a night of playing when dealing with fatigue can also be challenging even when playing comfortably. Is ITM, once approached with whistles carved from wood by hand largely by their prospective players long before digital tuners arrived, now intolerant of slight variations in scale due to technique, particularly given variations in alternate fingering that may be required for G major on a D major scale flute, and the matter of venting or not venting the top hole for the "C#" note at the top of the second register?
Have times changed to be less tolerant of slight variations in scale? Is ITM culture based upon multiple whistles for different scales, making it less tolerant of half holing?
Trying to play the literal notes on a C major scale whistle or flute offers the advantage of being able to play down to middle C, which one can't do with a D major scale instrument. The fiddle and mandolin can both play music below middle C. How does one handle sheet music that drops below D in the octave of middle C in the fiddle repertoire? Does one simply give the fiddle or mandolin a solo and go on at the start of the next musical phrase if one is playing a D major scale instrument in a work in the fiddle repertoire that drops below D? Thanks for any suggestions.
The vast majority of Irish diddley tunes are in the range of the bottom D on a whistle to the top b in the second octave and using either the C sharp or nat. This is not mere coincidence, it's because this is the easy range that the fiddle and whistle/flute/pipes share.
As is always the case with people who suggest reinventing the wheel, they are invariably unfamiliar with how perfect the wheel is.
"How does one handle sheet music that drops below D in the octave of middle C in the fiddle repertoire?"
You fit it on your instrument. Transpose the phrase an octave up, transpose single notes, make slight adjustments to the tune.
C Whistle - The C whistle is a logical approach only if you're coming from the outside. There D major is just another scale, one ot the twelve major scales. In ITM, D is the base, and the only logical approach would be a D Whistle.
Talking about your comment of the middle C, here's a point to make clear how much that middle C is worth in ITM:
You CAN get a middle C key for a flute, since most of them are still built with C# and C-holes below the D, you technically only have to close them to sound the C.
The bigger part of flute makers, including (if I'm still correctly informed) Hammy Hammilton simply refuses to build those two keys. And the other makers often require you to explain your need for that key. Why? Because it costs a fortune and is unnecessary.
Take a look at the tunes that go below the D. Almost every single one of them goes below the C as well.
I did not say "tell me how to half hole the bottom note on the whistle" - I suggested that you go and try it. It is extremely difficult if not impossible due to the small size of the lowest hole. Some whistles somewhere might be able to do it. Mine don't. Nor do my flutes. That is why I have an Eflat key on my D flute.
If you want an unkeyed chromatic instrument then you could always go the way of the ten hole piccolos/flutes, e.g. those made by Skip Healy. I don't know if he makes a whistle to that configuration though.
For this music you want a high D whistle and you want to learn how to play the repertoire on that whistle in the correct style. Once you've done that for a while you may start to see the point in having more whistles for the awkward tunes. Note that playing even a simple reel in D on a C whistle is far harder and sounds worse than the tunes that often cause D-whistlers to reach for their c whistle - e.g. Julia Delaney.
And the question about lower notes although badly worded and mentioning the "dots" - is still a valid question. What does one do with the notes outside the range of your instrument. Listening to lots of players may give you some ideas, but generally you replace those notes with others that fit. Simplest usually being an octave higher.
"Crackpot", you blindsided me. I don't have a C major scale whistle, and have never played one. I'm using a C major bamboo flute to half hole the C note, so the bottom hole may be larger than with a whistle. I have three, D major scale whistles, one low and two high (no other keys). You've brought up a point I wasn't aware of with regard to C major scale whistles. Good thing I didn't rush off and order one. Thanks.
I started with a D major scale instrument because it was widely accepted as suitable one for ITM. I never questioned it. Years later I look back, in part because through ITM I was surprised to find that I could begin to learn to play a whistle, and had looked at music from other traditions that did drop down below middle C, so I posed the question. The works that spawned the question include a book of ITM that incorporates what are apprently a few fiddle or mandolin tunes in among the whistle tunes. I'd also encountered it among Australian traditional works.
I had considered shifting up an octave when I encountered pieces with such lower notes, but others from this tradition had indicated it might be perceived as bad form, particularly for someone who is not an accomplished traditional musician. (Do you want the worst player in the room an octave above the others?)
I do plan to continue to use the instruments I have. (This low D flute is becoming more comfortable with practice, and the embouchure issues are slowly being worked out.)
Bamboo flutes usually have largish holes Ithink - so half holing may be practical there.
Moving up an octave is indeed the obvious option and as a whistle player you are already an octave higher than everyone else, so I can understand not wanting to stand out too much. Choosing other notes than the octave imposes a certain harmony on the tune and if you are being backed by e.g. a guitar then this can seriously limit which alternative notes work. The octave is the only choice that will always work. But do spend some time finding the other notes, e.g. the start of the Banshee I play |:G2 GD EDEG|AGAB d2 - replacing the low B which would be the "normal" verson with an E. (Normally |:G2 GD ED,BG|AGAB d2).
(Actually I've just looked at the tune section on this site and that is the version they ive there too...)
Substituting can really be quite subtle, consider the A part of Lafferty's:
|: B2AF B2AF | EDEF EDB,D | B2AF B2AF | DFBA FE~E2 |
B2AF BFAF | EDEF EDB,A, | B,E~E2 DEFA | dBAF FE~E :|
A local flute player goes for the "phrase moving", which would make it:
|: B2AF B2AF | ~e3f edBd | B2AF B2AF | DFBA FE~E2 |
B2AF BFAF | ~e3f edBA | BE~E2 DEFA | dBAF FE~E :|
It preserves the melody runs, but the flute really jumps out.
You can also perfectly well do the following, which is also how Lunasa and Liam O'Flynn do this tune:
|: B2AF B2AF | EDEF EDBA | B2AF B2AF | DFBA FE~E2 |
B2AF BFAF | EDEF EDBA | BE~E2 DEFA | dBAF FE~E :|
A nice twist on the melody, you got an accent on the high Bs, but nothing drastic.
Whistles, Flutes, D major Finger Positions
Whistles, Flutes, D major Finger Positions
If one begins with a D major scale flute or whistle, one can usually adapt to G major as well with alternate fingering for the C nat. I find it impossible to get myself to use C major finger positions on a C major bamboo flute that I have acquired after working with a low D instrument. (I suspect that I could condition myself to use C major finger positions, but would then likely cease to play the D major instrument with proper fingering.)
I find that I continue to use D major finger positions, and have to play very slowly with some thought to use C major finger positions, although the C major flute seems to be an instrument that could be more naturally adapted to a variety of keys by half holing a tone hole to produce an enharmonic version of a note (not uncommon in the traditional flute music of some other cultures employing primitive, six holed flutes).
I know that shifting to instruments in different keys is quite common with whistles, but in doing so, do most traditional musicians also change their finger positions to play the true notes on non-D major instruments, or do they typically transpose a work to a different key while using D major finger positions on an instrument with a different scale, for example, D to C, E to D, F# to E, etc.with D major instrument finger positions on a C major flute?
Thank you.
# Posted on June 30th 2008 by Arthur Nordstrom
Re: Whistles, Flutes, D major Finger Positions
When switching between different flutes and whistles, most players just play as if they were still in D. Often, the reason to change keys is simply for a different sound. Another reason would be to transpose a tune to match other instruments. One example of using a C instrument would be for a tune like Julia Delaney--fingered as if it were in E dorian on a C flute or whistle, the tune comes out in D dorian, matching the fiddles.
# Posted on June 30th 2008 by Tintin
Re: Whistles, Flutes, D major Finger Positions
I would suggest sticking to the standard fingerings, as for the D whistle, where you have the keys of D, G with a C natural fingering, and A with a single half-hole required for the occasional Gsharp. You just have to remember the related keys you can play in on any key of whistle.
I wrote out a card for my SO, who claims to be musically illiterate, to remind her what keys she can play on any of her brace of whistles; occasionally, as for a song I sing in F, it sounds better to play it on a Bb whistle than a C.
The hardest thing I find is to work with a singer who pitches their songs to the semitone, using guitar accessories like the capo, and whistle players have to struggle to keep up with all their changes - oh, for a whistle capo !
# Posted on June 30th 2008 by Guernsey Pete
Re: Whistles, Flutes, D major Finger Positions
Whistle capo is easy - you just need lots of whistles. A flute capo is harder and would be more useful. (for me...)
# Posted on June 30th 2008 by Crackpot
Re: Whistles, Flutes, D major Finger Positions
Oh and as far as using the different whistles - just transpose everything you learn into a key you can play on the D Whistle and learn it like that. Then pick up the appropriate other whistle and play it as if it was a D whistle with the fingerings you've learnt and the tune will come out in the appropriate other key.
Some things are worth knowing like:
Eflat whistle for playing along with Bflat scottish pipes - but the pipes may not actually be BFlat usually they are higher nowadays. Also used in Eflat sessions.
C Whistle for playing Julia Delaney. This is the main whistle you will be using in sessions after your D Whistle.
Low D Whistle - completely different instrument.
low A/G/Fwhistles - very useful for accompanying male voice singers.
# Posted on June 30th 2008 by Crackpot
Re: Whistles, Flutes, D major Finger Positions
And the Eflat whistle is also the one for general playing along with any "BFlat" concert instrument. e.g Clarinets, etc.
# Posted on June 30th 2008 by Crackpot
Re: Whistles, Flutes, D major Finger Positions
I'm actualy speaking as it were for my SO; being a fretted instrument player myself I can just pop on the capo, but I have to read the other musicians' key and pass it on the SO, who then fumbles through her bandolero of pipes, to find the right one; I think she now has A, Bb, C, D, Eb, and F, plus open-hole flute. I don't see why she can complain about my Instrument Acquisition Syndrome after all that lot, except that mine cost a bit/lot more !
# Posted on June 30th 2008 by Guernsey Pete
Re: Whistles, Flutes, D major Finger Positions
It is actually a lot easier with dots since you just look at the sharps/flat in the signature and choose the apropriate whistle. You don't really care if it is D-Major, B minor, E Dorian etc - you just care which notes your whistle can play and which notes are in the music. Guitar players/singers I know have an irritating habit of saying "it's in B" without making it clear wht they mean.
It is usually clear once they start playing, but it helps to already have the correct whistle at the start of the tune.
# Posted on June 30th 2008 by Crackpot
Re: Whistles, Flutes, D major Finger Positions
The best diddley whistle player I know has one generation D. It's all they need. If you shut your eyes when they're playing tunes in Gmin Dmin, Amaj, C maj etc, you'd swear it was different whistles.
If someone in a session says they are gonna play a tune in B, unless it's a partiucular set of flat pipes, they are an idiot if it's not gonna Bmin
# Posted on June 30th 2008 by llig leahcim
Re: Whistles, Flutes, D major Finger Positions
Yes, but, you know what; if you never play a guitar or other chord based instrument or haven't had any formal training then you really don't know what all these keys are. And all you really want is a quick guide to tell you which whistle to have in your hand so that you can play the tune by ear. Without half of it having gone by before you get a suitable whistle out.
And the worst culprits with the dodgy key naming are actually the self-accompanied singers where B does not necessarily mean Bmin... And don't ask me why a whistle player might be interested in what key a singer is in. And one friend of mine had an annoying habit of changing his mind and shifting his capo once we'd got everything else sorted. ("sounds a bit better a bit lower..." whine, moan...) This isn't always in a session context either.
And a whistle player that can play lots of keys on one whistle has talent - more than most whistle players that I have known. (I've never yet met a whistle player without WhOA disorder.) You, Llig, must be blessed with a much higher quality of musician in your vicinity than I am. Lucky you.
Doing the same on a keyless flute is a necessity for many flute players due to the high cost of flutes in different keys and the danger of lots of flutes sitting on a pub table. The answer on the flute is of course keys... The answer for _most_ whistle players is; get more whistles.
# Posted on June 30th 2008 by Crackpot
Re: Whistles, Flutes, D major Finger Positions
As I said, self-accompanied singers where B does not necessarily mean Bmin are idiots. Such a breed are eschewed where I play, thank christ.
# Posted on July 1st 2008 by llig leahcim
Re: Whistles, Flutes, D major Finger Positions
"The hardest thing I find is to work with a singer who pitches their songs to the semitone"
The other day, I was in a session with a fine singer/guitarist who was pitched to the *quarter tone*. She begged us all to accompany her - a tall order, even on a chromatic instrument like the mandolin. Not wanting to disappoint, I did my best. I explained to her afterwards, the reason I wasn't playing very many notes was that I was having to bend every note to get in tune with her.
# Posted on July 1st 2008 by granama
Re: Whistles, Flutes, D major Finger Positions
You know, I bought my first whistle through the mail from Clarke, largely because it was cheap, and I doubted I had the talent to learn even the rudiments of playing it. I got a little sheet of paper with the fingering for various notes that came with it. It indicated lots of notes on a D major whistle that were not in the key of D major by means of half holing.
I rolled my eyes and decided to just focus on D major. I still wonder if a C major whistle would have been a more logical approach for general music, given that one need merely half hole what would be a fully closed hole for the natural version of a note to play the sharp version of that same note. Very simple. Very logical.
The price for D major on a C flute would have been to develop a facility to half hole F and D, with the latter already a requirement for G major, a common key in the ITM whistle repertoire. End of whistle acquisition syndrome predicated upon a need for whistles in different keys. How much could half holing an occassional note really slow down a skilled player? (Not a title I can claim, just a thought.) Would tonal variation due to half holing with a C major whistle rather than playing comfortably on a D major whistle truly be that great with practice?
# Posted on July 1st 2008 by Arthur Nordstrom
Re: Whistles, Flutes, D major Finger Positions
Well, at least as far as trad tunes are concerned, one major obstacle to what Arthur suggests is that you can't tap/strike a half-holed note, which eliminates that ornament and every kind of roll in one fell swoop.
# Posted on July 2nd 2008 by Tintin
Re: Whistles, Flutes, D major Finger Positions
Actually on a C Whistle you would need to half hole c natural to get c#. And there I wish you good luck (go and try to half hole D#/Eb on the D whistle...)
And whatever a fingering chart may say, half holed notes are rarely accurately in tune and even less so at speed. They are ok for notes that pass quickly and/or are unstressed but otherwise...
And F# and c# don't really count as "occasional notes" in much of this music. They are everywhere. Lots of them.
# Posted on July 2nd 2008 by Crackpot
Re: Whistles, Flutes, D major Finger Positions
"Crackpot", you are correct with regard to my mis-statement of the enharmonic notes of the D major scale. They are "C#" and "F#" and NOT F and D, although the reference I made to "F" was intended in terms of an enharmonic.
When bending a note, one slowly shifts a finger off the lowest hole that has a finger on it to create a slow shift upward from the note with that hole fully blocked to the next higher tone hole note. In this context, to get "C#" with a C major scale whistle, one half holes the base hole. To get "F#" with a C major scale whistle, one half holes the "F" hole. To get "Bb" with a C major scale whistle, one employs an alternate fingering, as with the "C#" note with a D major scale whistle.
I agree that getting consistent tone using half holing could be challenging and would demand practice to pull it off with any pace, but getting a consistent tone based upon pressure levels during a night of playing when dealing with fatigue can also be challenging even when playing comfortably. Is ITM, once approached with whistles carved from wood by hand largely by their prospective players long before digital tuners arrived, now intolerant of slight variations in scale due to technique, particularly given variations in alternate fingering that may be required for G major on a D major scale flute, and the matter of venting or not venting the top hole for the "C#" note at the top of the second register?
Have times changed to be less tolerant of slight variations in scale? Is ITM culture based upon multiple whistles for different scales, making it less tolerant of half holing?
# Posted on July 2nd 2008 by Arthur Nordstrom
Re: Whistles, Flutes, D major Finger Positions
No, diddley music culture is based on the D whistle alone.
# Posted on July 2nd 2008 by llig leahcim
Re: Whistles, Flutes, D major Finger Positions
Trying to play the literal notes on a C major scale whistle or flute offers the advantage of being able to play down to middle C, which one can't do with a D major scale instrument. The fiddle and mandolin can both play music below middle C. How does one handle sheet music that drops below D in the octave of middle C in the fiddle repertoire? Does one simply give the fiddle or mandolin a solo and go on at the start of the next musical phrase if one is playing a D major scale instrument in a work in the fiddle repertoire that drops below D? Thanks for any suggestions.
# Posted on July 2nd 2008 by Arthur Nordstrom
Re: Whistles, Flutes, D major Finger Positions
The vast majority of Irish diddley tunes are in the range of the bottom D on a whistle to the top b in the second octave and using either the C sharp or nat. This is not mere coincidence, it's because this is the easy range that the fiddle and whistle/flute/pipes share.
As is always the case with people who suggest reinventing the wheel, they are invariably unfamiliar with how perfect the wheel is.
# Posted on July 2nd 2008 by llig leahcim
Re: Whistles, Flutes, D major Finger Positions
"How does one handle sheet music that ...."
Says it all really
# Posted on July 2nd 2008 by llig leahcim
Re: Whistles, Flutes, D major Finger Positions
"How does one handle sheet music that drops below D in the octave of middle C in the fiddle repertoire?"
You fit it on your instrument. Transpose the phrase an octave up, transpose single notes, make slight adjustments to the tune.
C Whistle - The C whistle is a logical approach only if you're coming from the outside. There D major is just another scale, one ot the twelve major scales. In ITM, D is the base, and the only logical approach would be a D Whistle.
Talking about your comment of the middle C, here's a point to make clear how much that middle C is worth in ITM:
You CAN get a middle C key for a flute, since most of them are still built with C# and C-holes below the D, you technically only have to close them to sound the C.
The bigger part of flute makers, including (if I'm still correctly informed) Hammy Hammilton simply refuses to build those two keys. And the other makers often require you to explain your need for that key. Why? Because it costs a fortune and is unnecessary.
Take a look at the tunes that go below the D. Almost every single one of them goes below the C as well.
# Posted on July 2nd 2008 by TMB
Re: Whistles, Flutes, D major Finger Positions
I did not say "tell me how to half hole the bottom note on the whistle" - I suggested that you go and try it. It is extremely difficult if not impossible due to the small size of the lowest hole. Some whistles somewhere might be able to do it. Mine don't. Nor do my flutes. That is why I have an Eflat key on my D flute.
If you want an unkeyed chromatic instrument then you could always go the way of the ten hole piccolos/flutes, e.g. those made by Skip Healy. I don't know if he makes a whistle to that configuration though.
For this music you want a high D whistle and you want to learn how to play the repertoire on that whistle in the correct style. Once you've done that for a while you may start to see the point in having more whistles for the awkward tunes. Note that playing even a simple reel in D on a C whistle is far harder and sounds worse than the tunes that often cause D-whistlers to reach for their c whistle - e.g. Julia Delaney.
# Posted on July 2nd 2008 by Crackpot
Re: Whistles, Flutes, D major Finger Positions
And the question about lower notes although badly worded and mentioning the "dots" - is still a valid question. What does one do with the notes outside the range of your instrument. Listening to lots of players may give you some ideas, but generally you replace those notes with others that fit. Simplest usually being an octave higher.
# Posted on July 2nd 2008 by Crackpot
Re: Whistles, Flutes, D major Finger Positions
"Crackpot", you blindsided me. I don't have a C major scale whistle, and have never played one. I'm using a C major bamboo flute to half hole the C note, so the bottom hole may be larger than with a whistle. I have three, D major scale whistles, one low and two high (no other keys). You've brought up a point I wasn't aware of with regard to C major scale whistles. Good thing I didn't rush off and order one. Thanks.
I started with a D major scale instrument because it was widely accepted as suitable one for ITM. I never questioned it. Years later I look back, in part because through ITM I was surprised to find that I could begin to learn to play a whistle, and had looked at music from other traditions that did drop down below middle C, so I posed the question. The works that spawned the question include a book of ITM that incorporates what are apprently a few fiddle or mandolin tunes in among the whistle tunes. I'd also encountered it among Australian traditional works.
I had considered shifting up an octave when I encountered pieces with such lower notes, but others from this tradition had indicated it might be perceived as bad form, particularly for someone who is not an accomplished traditional musician. (Do you want the worst player in the room an octave above the others?)
I do plan to continue to use the instruments I have. (This low D flute is becoming more comfortable with practice, and the embouchure issues are slowly being worked out.)
# Posted on July 2nd 2008 by Arthur Nordstrom
Re: Whistles, Flutes, D major Finger Positions
Bamboo flutes usually have largish holes Ithink - so half holing may be practical there.
Moving up an octave is indeed the obvious option and as a whistle player you are already an octave higher than everyone else, so I can understand not wanting to stand out too much. Choosing other notes than the octave imposes a certain harmony on the tune and if you are being backed by e.g. a guitar then this can seriously limit which alternative notes work. The octave is the only choice that will always work. But do spend some time finding the other notes, e.g. the start of the Banshee I play |:G2 GD EDEG|AGAB d2 - replacing the low B which would be the "normal" verson with an E. (Normally |:G2 GD ED,BG|AGAB d2).
(Actually I've just looked at the tune section on this site and that is the version they ive there too...)
# Posted on July 3rd 2008 by Crackpot
Re: Whistles, Flutes, D major Finger Positions
"have there"
# Posted on July 3rd 2008 by Crackpot
Re: Whistles, Flutes, D major Finger Positions
Substituting can really be quite subtle, consider the A part of Lafferty's:
|: B2AF B2AF | EDEF EDB,D | B2AF B2AF | DFBA FE~E2 |
B2AF BFAF | EDEF EDB,A, | B,E~E2 DEFA | dBAF FE~E :|
A local flute player goes for the "phrase moving", which would make it:
|: B2AF B2AF | ~e3f edBd | B2AF B2AF | DFBA FE~E2 |
B2AF BFAF | ~e3f edBA | BE~E2 DEFA | dBAF FE~E :|
It preserves the melody runs, but the flute really jumps out.
You can also perfectly well do the following, which is also how Lunasa and Liam O'Flynn do this tune:
|: B2AF B2AF | EDEF EDBA | B2AF B2AF | DFBA FE~E2 |
B2AF BFAF | EDEF EDBA | BE~E2 DEFA | dBAF FE~E :|
A nice twist on the melody, you got an accent on the high Bs, but nothing drastic.
# Posted on July 3rd 2008 by TMB