This is a serious question that probably will not require a lot of discussion if the able scholar will please jump in at the beginning.
Why is it that in certain Christian circles in the past that the fiddle was associated with the devil? I have poked around to find out why, without luck. I have also done a search on past discussions to find light and knowledge. I found some funny stuff, but not the answer.
As a note, I will mention that I am a Christian (which I don't wish to discuss here). I mention it because I would rather not my question be used to bash mine or anyone else's religion.
Again, why was the Fiddle eschewed by some faithful believers in the past?
for basically the same reason that the Church in Ireland sought to suppress house dances and the playing of trad. a few decades ago.
An older player I know was telling me that as a child he used to accompany his father who played each week at the 'dancing boads'. The Parish priest caused him great confusion when he thundered against this evil practice and warned his people not to go anywhere near those places lest they would spend the rest of their days in the fires of hell etc etc. So, there he was, seven or eight years of age and his father condemned from the pulpit. Mind you, he musn't have taken too much notice in the end because he kept up the box himslef and has a lovely relaxed style with an endless supply of tunes.
people were supposed to give their money to the church, not spend it on some silly instrument meant to entice said churchgoers into swaying, moving around and having some fun
As the fiddle was the most common folk instrument after the decline of the harp, it could have been taken to represent the genre of folk music and hence music which was not monitored or censored by the church, thus probably leading to sin. This would have eventually culminated in the Public Dance Halls Act of 1935*, where dancing at the cross-roads and house sessions were outlawed. As explained to me by one person, too much promiscuity was the main reason for the ban! and hence the 'hands by the side' ceili approach was introduced as an alternative. I think that it was a priest in Galway that started the first ceili band... that would need to be checked.
The above is what I would imagine to be the answer but there is every possibility that there is a more accurate answer. I am after all, only 22!
Hope that helps!
Martin.
p.s. you are talking specifically about Ireland? or Nicolai Pagan(ini)?!!
For about nine or ten years, I used to play piano every Tuesday evening at a Blues Jam. Supposedly, the blues is the "Devil's Music" but playing the blues for so many years doesn't seem to have done any damage to my soul or my psyche or the few brain cells inside my head which still function halfway normally.
I have a sister-in-law and an aunt who both think I should only play religious music and nothing else. The sister-in-law refuses to listen to religious music unless it is this modern Christian "praise music". My aunt, on the other hand, enjoys listening to religious music no matter how old or how new it is.
Man, Davyydd, you give me the creeps. I saw you dancing on YouTube, dancing WITHOUT LEGS OR HANDS!!!!! Just floating there in the air as a ghostly shirt with a head!
"I was once told by a vicar that it was the devils toy as played by Nero who burned Rome and lots of Christians"
No, not really. That's one of the world's oldest urban legends. According to legend Nero played "fiddle" while Rome burned, but that didn't actually happen (Rome did burn, but Nero didn't start the fire or play the fiddle while it burned. He wasn't even in the city at the time). Also, what we call fiddles today didn't exist back then, it's a creative translation of the rumor. Nero predates the fiddle by many centuries.
The Devil's Box
The Devil's Box
Okay. Here goes.
This is a serious question that probably will not require a lot of discussion if the able scholar will please jump in at the beginning.
Why is it that in certain Christian circles in the past that the fiddle was associated with the devil? I have poked around to find out why, without luck. I have also done a search on past discussions to find light and knowledge. I found some funny stuff, but not the answer.
As a note, I will mention that I am a Christian (which I don't wish to discuss here). I mention it because I would rather not my question be used to bash mine or anyone else's religion.
Again, why was the Fiddle eschewed by some faithful believers in the past?
# Posted on June 26th 2008 by feardearg
Re: The Devil's Box
Hey!
I found some info on this link:
http://www.rachelbartonpine.com/mus/mus_07_notes.htm
It also notes some readings at the end that might interest you.
# Posted on June 26th 2008 by davydd
The Devil's Box - Mystery solved
Wow! Fast reply from the scholar!
That hit the spot. Thanks!
# Posted on June 26th 2008 by feardearg
Re: The Devil's Box
not to mention the devil's button box, reviled by hitler as a vehicle of filthy, degenerate "ethnic" music.
# Posted on June 26th 2008 by ceemonster
Re: The Devil's Box
It was because nobody could decide on how to tune the thing and cries of "God damn it" led people to believe it was a curse.
# Posted on June 26th 2008 by Bodhi
Re: The Devil's Box
yeah yeah, I'll smoke a turd in purgatory for that one.
I miss george carlin already.
# Posted on June 26th 2008 by Bodhi
Re: The Devil's Box
for basically the same reason that the Church in Ireland sought to suppress house dances and the playing of trad. a few decades ago.
An older player I know was telling me that as a child he used to accompany his father who played each week at the 'dancing boads'. The Parish priest caused him great confusion when he thundered against this evil practice and warned his people not to go anywhere near those places lest they would spend the rest of their days in the fires of hell etc etc. So, there he was, seven or eight years of age and his father condemned from the pulpit. Mind you, he musn't have taken too much notice in the end because he kept up the box himslef and has a lovely relaxed style with an endless supply of tunes.
# Posted on June 26th 2008 by the wounded hussar
Re: The Devil's Box
Someone once told me that 'everyone know's the flute is the 'devils' instrument'!
Which got me thinking about fluter Krisna enchanting the people minds, the piep piper leading the children away.
Back to the fiddle,
Personaly when I hear Vivadi's four seasons played on the violin family it cant help but think the complete opposite!
k
# Posted on June 26th 2008 by Kess
Re: The Devil's Box
the reformation
people were supposed to give their money to the church, not spend it on some silly instrument meant to entice said churchgoers into swaying, moving around and having some fun
# Posted on June 26th 2008 by Sunnybear
Re: The Devil's Box
As the fiddle was the most common folk instrument after the decline of the harp, it could have been taken to represent the genre of folk music and hence music which was not monitored or censored by the church, thus probably leading to sin. This would have eventually culminated in the Public Dance Halls Act of 1935*, where dancing at the cross-roads and house sessions were outlawed. As explained to me by one person, too much promiscuity was the main reason for the ban! and hence the 'hands by the side' ceili approach was introduced as an alternative. I think that it was a priest in Galway that started the first ceili band... that would need to be checked.
The above is what I would imagine to be the answer but there is every possibility that there is a more accurate answer. I am after all, only 22!
Hope that helps!
Martin.
p.s. you are talking specifically about Ireland? or Nicolai Pagan(ini)?!!
* http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1935/en/act/pub/0002/index.html
# Posted on June 26th 2008 by martin t
Re: The Devil's Box
For about nine or ten years, I used to play piano every Tuesday evening at a Blues Jam. Supposedly, the blues is the "Devil's Music" but playing the blues for so many years doesn't seem to have done any damage to my soul or my psyche or the few brain cells inside my head which still function halfway normally.
I have a sister-in-law and an aunt who both think I should only play religious music and nothing else. The sister-in-law refuses to listen to religious music unless it is this modern Christian "praise music". My aunt, on the other hand, enjoys listening to religious music no matter how old or how new it is.
# Posted on June 26th 2008 by fauxcelt
Re: The Devil's Box
I was once told by a vicar that it was the devils toy as played by Nero who burned Rome and lots of Christians
# Posted on June 26th 2008 by bazouki dave and the real tooty flutey
Re: The Devil's Box
No problems feardearg... I am a fiddle player tho... so it may be hard to trust anything i tell you!
# Posted on June 26th 2008 by davydd
Re: The Devil's Box
Man, Davyydd, you give me the creeps. I saw you dancing on YouTube, dancing WITHOUT LEGS OR HANDS!!!!! Just floating there in the air as a ghostly shirt with a head!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A8pX4i6gTOI
You know a little too much about this subject. Hmmmmm.
# Posted on June 27th 2008 by feardearg
Re: The Devil's Box
Ba ha ha ha ha! Yeah... i'll admit it does look a little creepy!
# Posted on June 27th 2008 by davydd
Re: The Devil's Box
"I was once told by a vicar that it was the devils toy as played by Nero who burned Rome and lots of Christians"
No, not really. That's one of the world's oldest urban legends. According to legend Nero played "fiddle" while Rome burned, but that didn't actually happen (Rome did burn, but Nero didn't start the fire or play the fiddle while it burned. He wasn't even in the city at the time). Also, what we call fiddles today didn't exist back then, it's a creative translation of the rumor. Nero predates the fiddle by many centuries.
# Posted on June 27th 2008 by Marklar
Re: The Devil's Box
And why did the tri-tone become the Devil's Interval?
Diabolus In Musicus.
# Posted on June 27th 2008 by geoffwright
Re: The Devil's Box
Seems murky, but there's some interesting stuff here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tritone
It's Wikipedia, so it must be right.
# Posted on June 27th 2008 by Marklar