Re: The difference between a slow air and a lament
I think maybe you need to listen to a singer rendering the air/ lament and then you can figure it out from the tone of the song.
Laments whilst sad, often have an uplifting section to counterbalance.
Re: The difference between a slow air and a lament
Joseph, I've just listened to your Caoineath on Soundlantern , and I'm sure it would be considered an air as well as a lament. Very nice playing. I've heard the traditional air Caoineadh an Spailpin (The spalpeen's lament) played in a fleadh in the fiddle slow airs category.
Re: The difference between a slow air and a lament
Maybe a lament is dedicated to a particular person or event and a slow air could be anything else that is played with maximum expression? For my money either way they both are a so and so to play without getting over self indulgent (guilty as charged, yer honour).
Re: The difference between a slow air and a lament
I would class 'The Flowers of the Forest' as a lament. It's usually played in 3/4 time and can be used as a slow march. On the other hand a slow air such as 'The Lark in the Clear Air' or Slaibh na Mban' (The Mountain of the Women) are just airs played slowly.
Re: The difference between a slow air and a lament
Huh, I see. Cathycook, thanks for listening to my little tune, I'm glad you liked it, I haven't been too sure about it.
p.s. Has anybody else noticed that the site has been really odd today? (or yesterday, rather) None of the tune pages would load, but just sent me back to the archives, and the names weren't showing, and I couldn't even log in.
Re: The difference between a slow air and a lament
While there may be more precise definitions, I'm sure that it's basically just this thing that the lament is linked to a certain individual or event, hence carries a heavier emotional charge.
When they did 'Lark Rise' at the National Theatre many years ago 'The Battle of the Somme" was used as a theme tune, and the finale, because it was recognised that it signalled the end of an era, the passing of a way of life, not only the needless deaths of so many good people, and hence it carried an enormous weight.
Re: The difference between a slow air and a lament
I think I'd be drawn to a piece called a "slow air" but would find something called a "lament" potentially depressing, and thus something to avoid. I'd be disinclined to tune into the emotions necessary to properly render the latter. Something like "Star of the County Down" can be played slowly, as an aire, with a hint of mystery, as in the show, "Celtic Women", but it can also be played in a very light manner with a hint of frivolity. I've heard "Si Bheag, Si Mhor" rendered as a lament in one rendition and transformed into something that sounded like a dance tune in another. One must wonder if there is a line that should be drawn with such a piece by a composer like O'Carolan, on the brink of the baroque.
Re: The difference between a slow air and a lament
I couldn't get on the website yesterday evening - all I got was a message from a server to the effect that members' ids couldn't be loaded. Jeremy has now evidently sorted it out.
I can't post this due to too many versions of this work on the site. It does count as one of those five penance pieces described in the FAQs. It's the work "Si Bheag, Si Mhor" by Turlough O'Carolan, often approached as a "lament". I saved it under the comments of the first version of the piece that comes up under a search for the tune. It's meant to offer an alternate and more modern approach to the work. A program called "ABC2WIN" permits one to play these ABC files back. The trial version is downloadable, and, so far, free for playback purposes. Some nice tunes were uploaded today ("Banks of the Allan" and "The Bastard Polka"), I'd encourage everyone to give them a try.
T:Si Bheag, Si Mhor (modern)
M:4/4
L:1/8
C:Turlough O'Carolan
S:Arthur Nordstrom
K:G
|:B E2 G4 B|E2 G4 B E-|E G4 c3|B4 G4|\
E4 G A3|e2 G2 B4|1 F8:|2 c4 G A3|\
G4 B E2 G-|G3 A G2 A2-|A d2 c2 B3|\
A4 G3 E-|E3 D3 E F-|\
F2 E2 F2 G2-|G2 A6|B E2 G4 A|\
G2 A4 d2|c2 B4 A2-|A2 G3 E3-|\
E D3 E F3| E2 F2 G4|A4 G A3|G8|]
The difference between a slow air and a lament
The difference between a slow air and a lament
What is it?
# Posted on June 20th 2008 by JosephofCK
Re: The difference between a slow air and a lament
http://www.thesession.org/discussions/display/4273/ has lots of info on that.
# Posted on June 20th 2008 by mickray
Re: The difference between a slow air and a lament
Do you mean as in the "Caboose's Lament" (french)
or from cowboy laments to seafaring chants?
Leaky bellows?
# Posted on June 20th 2008 by Frunobulax
Re: The difference between a slow air and a lament
I think maybe you need to listen to a singer rendering the air/ lament and then you can figure it out from the tone of the song.
Laments whilst sad, often have an uplifting section to counterbalance.
# Posted on June 20th 2008 by the wounded hussar
Re: The difference between a slow air and a lament
Joseph, I've just listened to your Caoineath on Soundlantern , and I'm sure it would be considered an air as well as a lament. Very nice playing. I've heard the traditional air Caoineadh an Spailpin (The spalpeen's lament) played in a fleadh in the fiddle slow airs category.
# Posted on June 20th 2008 by cathycook
Re: The difference between a slow air and a lament
Maybe a lament is dedicated to a particular person or event and a slow air could be anything else that is played with maximum expression? For my money either way they both are a so and so to play without getting over self indulgent (guilty as charged, yer honour).
# Posted on June 20th 2008 by john knoss
Re: The difference between a slow air and a lament
a slow air is a lament that nobody has yet to pay someone to have their name attached to
# Posted on June 20th 2008 by Sunnybear
Re: The difference between a slow air and a lament
So, messing up a slow tune on a paid gig might be 'lamentable'?
# Posted on June 20th 2008 by john knoss
Re: The difference between a slow air and a lament
I would class 'The Flowers of the Forest' as a lament. It's usually played in 3/4 time and can be used as a slow march. On the other hand a slow air such as 'The Lark in the Clear Air' or Slaibh na Mban' (The Mountain of the Women) are just airs played slowly.
# Posted on June 20th 2008 by Free Reed
Re: The difference between a slow air and a lament
Huh, I see. Cathycook, thanks for listening to my little tune, I'm glad you liked it, I haven't been too sure about it.
p.s. Has anybody else noticed that the site has been really odd today? (or yesterday, rather) None of the tune pages would load, but just sent me back to the archives, and the names weren't showing, and I couldn't even log in.
# Posted on June 21st 2008 by JosephofCK
Re: The difference between a slow air and a lament
Yes, it was the same yesterday evening on my computer, but it's back to normal now.
# Posted on June 21st 2008 by nicholas
Re: The difference between a slow air and a lament
Lots of things don't work if you're not logged in, so a glinch preventing that leads to all other problems. Electronics - they work, or they're krap.
# Posted on June 21st 2008 by Guernsey Pete
Re: The difference between a slow air and a lament
While there may be more precise definitions, I'm sure that it's basically just this thing that the lament is linked to a certain individual or event, hence carries a heavier emotional charge.
When they did 'Lark Rise' at the National Theatre many years ago 'The Battle of the Somme" was used as a theme tune, and the finale, because it was recognised that it signalled the end of an era, the passing of a way of life, not only the needless deaths of so many good people, and hence it carried an enormous weight.
# Posted on June 21st 2008 by Guernsey Pete
Re: The difference between a slow air and a lament
I think I'd be drawn to a piece called a "slow air" but would find something called a "lament" potentially depressing, and thus something to avoid. I'd be disinclined to tune into the emotions necessary to properly render the latter. Something like "Star of the County Down" can be played slowly, as an aire, with a hint of mystery, as in the show, "Celtic Women", but it can also be played in a very light manner with a hint of frivolity. I've heard "Si Bheag, Si Mhor" rendered as a lament in one rendition and transformed into something that sounded like a dance tune in another. One must wonder if there is a line that should be drawn with such a piece by a composer like O'Carolan, on the brink of the baroque.
# Posted on June 21st 2008 by Arthur Nordstrom
Re: The difference between a slow air and a lament
I couldn't get on the website yesterday evening - all I got was a message from a server to the effect that members' ids couldn't be loaded. Jeremy has now evidently sorted it out.
# Posted on June 21st 2008 by lazyhound
Re: The difference between a slow air and a lament
I had exactly the same experience, Trevor.
# Posted on June 21st 2008 by murfbox
Penance
I can't post this due to too many versions of this work on the site. It does count as one of those five penance pieces described in the FAQs. It's the work "Si Bheag, Si Mhor" by Turlough O'Carolan, often approached as a "lament". I saved it under the comments of the first version of the piece that comes up under a search for the tune. It's meant to offer an alternate and more modern approach to the work. A program called "ABC2WIN" permits one to play these ABC files back. The trial version is downloadable, and, so far, free for playback purposes. Some nice tunes were uploaded today ("Banks of the Allan" and "The Bastard Polka"), I'd encourage everyone to give them a try.
T:Si Bheag, Si Mhor (modern)
M:4/4
L:1/8
C:Turlough O'Carolan
S:Arthur Nordstrom
K:G
|:B E2 G4 B|E2 G4 B E-|E G4 c3|B4 G4|\
E4 G A3|e2 G2 B4|1 F8:|2 c4 G A3|\
G4 B E2 G-|G3 A G2 A2-|A d2 c2 B3|\
A4 G3 E-|E3 D3 E F-|\
F2 E2 F2 G2-|G2 A6|B E2 G4 A|\
G2 A4 d2|c2 B4 A2-|A2 G3 E3-|\
E D3 E F3| E2 F2 G4|A4 G A3|G8|]
# Posted on June 21st 2008 by Arthur Nordstrom
Re: The difference between a slow air and a lament
The difference to me is simply in the emotional content, which can be a hairs breadth apart in judgement.
# Posted on June 24th 2008 by hauke