Benhall1 says "O God I wish I hadn't" so it raises the question. 'Why do we put ourselves down when it comes to playing an instrument ?
I know that most people do not like to hear the sound of their own voice, but am I right in thinking that the same applies to playing an instrument? When I listen to myself playing on a recording all I can hear are the missed notes and mistakes and I'm never satisfied with the result. . Maybe it stems from the fact that when somebody sticks a mike anywhere near your instrument your fingers grow to the size of tree trunks and your brain slips out of gear. Nobody else seems to notice your failings or perhaps they are just being too polite to tell you. I know it's easier to criticize somebody that you paid good money to go and hear, or somebody that you don't know on a personal bases. To be honest I’m way passed worrying about it now ……but I would still like to hear other views on the subject.
Lastly...Would you have the guts or neck to tell someone to their face that they were a crap player?????
Re: Are we too critical of our own playing abilities
Whenever I listen to the sound of my own voice, I always wonder, "How can other people stand to sit there and listen to me?"
Whenever I listen to recordings of myself playing, I wonder why other musicians don't hear all of the mistakes and missed notes which I can hear more clearly than I want to.
I don't tell anyone how good or how bad a player I think they are unless they ask for my opinion first or I am trying to teach them how to play an instrument.
Re: Are we too critical of our own playing abilities
Personally I'm very critical of my own playing, but I think that's a good thing. If I ever started thinking that my playing was great and didn't need work, then my progress would probably come to a halt and I'd never get much better.
So I think it's healthy to be a bit self-critical, as long as it doesn't go so far as to make you want to quit playing. It really doesn't bother me to hear the truth about my playing and take note of the things I need to work on. I enjoy playing, and looking for ways to improve is all part of the game.
In my experience, among those who have been playing for a while the worst players are often the ones who think very highly of their own playing, and are quickly offended by constructive criticism. People like that tend to get stuck at a certain level of playing and stay there. I think that's why the great players tend to have a lot of humility and tend to have less ego than some people you might find at a session.
Re: Are we too critical of our own playing abilities
I think it depends what you want someone wants from the music. If they are happy just to be competent in sessions then relax and just play. But for those who enjoy improving their playing then I think it is important to be critical and aware of their abilities. Making a simple recording is a great way of discovering what you need to work on.
I think you are right that we maybe hear our mistakes more than others sometimes but that doesn't mean the mistakes are not there.
And no, I couldn't brink myself to miscall someones playing to their face which unfortunately makes me two-faced. Some folk have nearly drove me to despair and only once have I let it all out.
Re: Are we too critical of our own playing abilities
I play the banjo - I am quite certain people her my gaffs loud and clear. However, the best lesson I've taught myself over the years is that I no longer let them derail me or spoil my evening. Being self-critical is healthy - to a point. I have seen fellow players of my similar skill level completely shut down if they gack up a tune in a session. They let embarrassment and frustration run rough-shod over their evening. I have taught myself to relax and enjoy the music. That in itself has improved my playing quite a bit. Lamenting each missed ornament and muddled phrase while your playing is far too self critical. As for my mates, I am blessed to regularly play with great folks who are talented and humble and supportive of each other.
Re: Are we too critical of our own playing abilities
Good point Jusa - the place to be self critical is at home. When playing with others you're as good as you are at that moment so should try and relax and laugh off the warts. (to a certain extent of course )
Re: Are we too critical of our own playing abilities
"learning their entire lives..." exactly! I think we get so impatient with ourselves in our rush to "get good" at this music that we self-defeat our goals. Being self-critical can help motivate us to get better - but only if we realize we are not cramming for an exam - it's a journey yes? Some journeys take a bit of time.
Re: Are we too critical of our own playing abilities
Indeed Jusa, enjoy the journey! Be strict but nice to yourself when it comes to your music. At least that's what I try to practice. I was never much for the screaming drill seargent coach types, either those that do it to others or those that do it to themselves. I mean, if you really need someone to be nasty to you about it, I guess you could come here and pick a fight.
Being humble and honest with yourself doesn't require any nastiness, I think.
Re: Are we too critical of our own playing abilities
One man's crap player is another man's post-modernist genius.
After botching a tune you must—with cold arrogance—say, 'In fifty years, everyone will play it that way.' (A Teutonic accent will enhance this, as will then packing up your instrument while holding unblinking eye contact with the session leader. Good times.)
Re: Are we too critical of our own playing abilities
Here is how I see the Irish session traditionalist.
You do not "practice"
~ simply play the tunes..
If you do not know the tune,
listen, then keep listening.
Play only when you have something to contribute.
This is the ideal session.
Everyone is caught up in the music. The critiicism may be there but it does not interfere with the music.
In tradition everything is straight forward. - The Tunes -
I hope there will always be traditionalists.
I hope there will always be sessions which folow this tradtion.
However, I am not a traditionalist.
When I am home . . .
I do practice.
I invent finger exercises.
I play along with recording.
I sight read sheet msic.
I am highly critical of my playing.
Come Tuesday night
I go to session hoping to find something traditional.
It is grand if my self-criticism waits outside while we play. he two of us may regroup after a night of craic.
Re: Are we too critical of our own playing abilities
LOL, NPD®ECO!
Everybody makes mistakes. The best players in the world make mistakes. Part of what sets them apart from others is how they handle it after it has happened. They never let it derail their playing, in some cases they find ways to use it to their advantage, and the "I meant to do that" attitude works well too.
For myself, when I make a glaring, nasty mistake in a session, I usually laugh and keep playing.
I was a radio DJ for a number of years, so I had to listen to my own voice a LOT (air check tapes, advertisements that I recorded, etc), and while you get used to it, you never really like it. I think listening to recordings of yourself play is a similar thing, but it's not the same. When I listen to a recording that I just did, I remember all the mistakes, and am critical of them. If I listen to a recording of myself from a couple years ago, I don't have the same connection to the playing, and I tend to be less critical of it. (If I listen to it repeatedly, I get more and more critical, however).
I just went back and listened to the studio recording of "Jane's Jigs" that I have linked in my profile. I haven't listened to it in a while, and so my mandolin playing doesn't bother me as much as it did when I first (somewhat reluctantly) posted it.
But you *have to* be critical of your own playing while you're doing it, to a large extent! You have to listen to what you're doing in context, and have to be aware if something you're doing is having a negative impact on those around you. That's different than being aware of your mistakes, but it is still a case of being critical, and it's necessary!
Re: Are we too critical of our own playing abilities
Ditto, on the "never stop learning" idea. Getting there isn't just half the fun, it's all the fun--because you will never arrive at perfection. Nobody does.
Besdes, I thought the "Aw, shucks" thing was part of the whole shtick. Didn't I once see a Zina quip (or quote) something like, "Don't be so modest. You're not that great."
Re: Are we too critical of our own playing abilities
"could there have been someone around the 16th century who was as good as me?"
Yeah, and he drowned out the mandolin too. http://www.khafif.com/rhy/iran.jpg
Re: Are we too critical of our own playing abilities
Thanks to a perfectionist parent (Hi Mom! - waves), I tend to by overly self-critical. So it really helped when someone years ago suggested listening for the things you do well in your playing and building on those. Not to ignore the weak spots, but not to dwell on them either. That changed my whole outlook. I went from hearing *only* every squeak and squawk and fumbled note to hearing the nice bits that were slowly creeping into my playing, too. And building on those really did help me improve.
Also, on another thread, wolfbird rightly points out that he can hear me "trying" in the clips I posted. Spot on, and it's what I hear when I listen to those clips, too. Ugh. Yuck. When I find myself trying instead of just playing, I use my "effortless" mantra: drop any concern about playing perfect or impressing anyone and just let the music be effortless. It always sounds better then.
(And obviously I still need to work on that, eh? )
Re: Are we too critical of our own playing abilities
If you were to ask twenty-five people (both musicians and non-musicians) what they think of my playing, you would probably get twenty-five different opinions.
Re: Are we too critical of our own playing abilities
"Nobody else seems to notice your failings or perhaps they are just being too polite to tell you."
I fear the stark truth is, to everyone else, the recording sounds no different from how you usually sound, so all the missed notes, squeaks, fluffed intonation etc. are no surprise to them. I would also wager that others will take a certain pleasure in hearing your imperfections because it makes them feel more at ease with their own playing.
Re: Are we too critical of our own playing abilities
The first time that Bill Roper and Cliff Flynt tried to record themselves, the experience was so unpleasant for them that they just had to write a song about it.
In the chorus of this song, they sing about the little man (the recording engineer) who sits in back and everybody fears because when it is over, the engineer plays back just what he hears, "every sour note, missed string, and busted chord."
Are we too critical of our own playing abilities
Are we too critical of our own playing abilities
Benhall1 says "O God I wish I hadn't" so it raises the question. 'Why do we put ourselves down when it comes to playing an instrument ?
I know that most people do not like to hear the sound of their own voice, but am I right in thinking that the same applies to playing an instrument? When I listen to myself playing on a recording all I can hear are the missed notes and mistakes and I'm never satisfied with the result. . Maybe it stems from the fact that when somebody sticks a mike anywhere near your instrument your fingers grow to the size of tree trunks and your brain slips out of gear. Nobody else seems to notice your failings or perhaps they are just being too polite to tell you. I know it's easier to criticize somebody that you paid good money to go and hear, or somebody that you don't know on a personal bases. To be honest I’m way passed worrying about it now ……but I would still like to hear other views on the subject.
Lastly...Would you have the guts or neck to tell someone to their face that they were a crap player?????
# Posted on June 18th 2008 by Free Reed
Re: Are we too critical of our own playing abilities
Whenever I listen to the sound of my own voice, I always wonder, "How can other people stand to sit there and listen to me?"
Whenever I listen to recordings of myself playing, I wonder why other musicians don't hear all of the mistakes and missed notes which I can hear more clearly than I want to.
I don't tell anyone how good or how bad a player I think they are unless they ask for my opinion first or I am trying to teach them how to play an instrument.
# Posted on June 18th 2008 by fauxcelt
Re: Are we too critical of our own playing abilities
Personally I'm very critical of my own playing, but I think that's a good thing. If I ever started thinking that my playing was great and didn't need work, then my progress would probably come to a halt and I'd never get much better.
So I think it's healthy to be a bit self-critical, as long as it doesn't go so far as to make you want to quit playing. It really doesn't bother me to hear the truth about my playing and take note of the things I need to work on. I enjoy playing, and looking for ways to improve is all part of the game.
In my experience, among those who have been playing for a while the worst players are often the ones who think very highly of their own playing, and are quickly offended by constructive criticism. People like that tend to get stuck at a certain level of playing and stay there. I think that's why the great players tend to have a lot of humility and tend to have less ego than some people you might find at a session.
# Posted on June 18th 2008 by Marklar
Re: Are we too critical of our own playing abilities
I think it depends what you want someone wants from the music. If they are happy just to be competent in sessions then relax and just play. But for those who enjoy improving their playing then I think it is important to be critical and aware of their abilities. Making a simple recording is a great way of discovering what you need to work on.
I think you are right that we maybe hear our mistakes more than others sometimes but that doesn't mean the mistakes are not there.
And no, I couldn't brink myself to miscall someones playing to their face which unfortunately makes me two-faced. Some folk have nearly drove me to despair and only once have I let it all out.
# Posted on June 18th 2008 by bogman
Re: Are we too critical of our own playing abilities
I play the banjo - I am quite certain people her my gaffs loud and clear. However, the best lesson I've taught myself over the years is that I no longer let them derail me or spoil my evening. Being self-critical is healthy - to a point. I have seen fellow players of my similar skill level completely shut down if they gack up a tune in a session. They let embarrassment and frustration run rough-shod over their evening. I have taught myself to relax and enjoy the music. That in itself has improved my playing quite a bit. Lamenting each missed ornament and muddled phrase while your playing is far too self critical. As for my mates, I am blessed to regularly play with great folks who are talented and humble and supportive of each other.
# Posted on June 18th 2008 by Jusa Nutter Eejit
Re: Are we too critical of our own playing abilities
Good point Jusa - the place to be self critical is at home. When playing with others you're as good as you are at that moment so should try and relax and laugh off the warts. (to a certain extent of course
)
# Posted on June 18th 2008 by bogman
Re: Are we too critical of our own playing abilities
Relaxing and enjoyment, two key points. I don't see them working well with a competitive, cut-throat atmosphere.
My favorite teachers are humble and always claim that they will be learning their entire lives. There's a lesson in there!
# Posted on June 18th 2008 by SWFL Fiddler
Re: Are we too critical of our own playing abilities
"learning their entire lives..." exactly! I think we get so impatient with ourselves in our rush to "get good" at this music that we self-defeat our goals. Being self-critical can help motivate us to get better - but only if we realize we are not cramming for an exam - it's a journey yes? Some journeys take a bit of time.
# Posted on June 18th 2008 by Jusa Nutter Eejit
Re: Are we too critical of our own playing abilities
Indeed Jusa, enjoy the journey! Be strict but nice to yourself when it comes to your music. At least that's what I try to practice. I was never much for the screaming drill seargent coach types, either those that do it to others or those that do it to themselves. I mean, if you really need someone to be nasty to you about it, I guess you could come here and pick a fight.
Being humble and honest with yourself doesn't require any nastiness, I think.
# Posted on June 18th 2008 by SWFL Fiddler
Re: Are we too critical of our own playing abilities
One man's crap player is another man's post-modernist genius.
After botching a tune you must—with cold arrogance—say, 'In fifty years, everyone will play it that way.' (A Teutonic accent will enhance this, as will then packing up your instrument while holding unblinking eye contact with the session leader. Good times.)
# Posted on June 18th 2008 by NEW Pure Drop® Ear Canal Oil
Re: Are we too critical of our own playing abilities
you have to be critical of your own playing. If you can't be honest with yourself, who can you be honest with?
BUT
When it is time to perform or play with other people, you have to play with confidence.
# Posted on June 18th 2008 by Nate Ryan
Re: Are we too critical of our own playing abilities
Here is how I see the Irish session traditionalist.
You do not "practice"
~ simply play the tunes..
If you do not know the tune,
listen, then keep listening.
Play only when you have something to contribute.
This is the ideal session.
Everyone is caught up in the music. The critiicism may be there but it does not interfere with the music.
In tradition everything is straight forward. - The Tunes -
I hope there will always be traditionalists.
I hope there will always be sessions which folow this tradtion.
However, I am not a traditionalist.
When I am home . . .
I do practice.
I invent finger exercises.
I play along with recording.
I sight read sheet msic.
I am highly critical of my playing.
Come Tuesday night
I go to session hoping to find something traditional.
It is grand if my self-criticism waits outside while we play. he two of us may regroup after a night of craic.
# Posted on June 18th 2008 by Random_notes
Re: Are we too critical of our own playing abilities
LOL, NPD®ECO!
Everybody makes mistakes. The best players in the world make mistakes. Part of what sets them apart from others is how they handle it after it has happened. They never let it derail their playing, in some cases they find ways to use it to their advantage, and the "I meant to do that" attitude works well too.
For myself, when I make a glaring, nasty mistake in a session, I usually laugh and keep playing.
I was a radio DJ for a number of years, so I had to listen to my own voice a LOT (air check tapes, advertisements that I recorded, etc), and while you get used to it, you never really like it. I think listening to recordings of yourself play is a similar thing, but it's not the same. When I listen to a recording that I just did, I remember all the mistakes, and am critical of them. If I listen to a recording of myself from a couple years ago, I don't have the same connection to the playing, and I tend to be less critical of it. (If I listen to it repeatedly, I get more and more critical, however).
I just went back and listened to the studio recording of "Jane's Jigs" that I have linked in my profile. I haven't listened to it in a while, and so my mandolin playing doesn't bother me as much as it did when I first (somewhat reluctantly) posted it.
But you *have to* be critical of your own playing while you're doing it, to a large extent! You have to listen to what you're doing in context, and have to be aware if something you're doing is having a negative impact on those around you. That's different than being aware of your mistakes, but it is still a case of being critical, and it's necessary!
# Posted on June 18th 2008 by Reverend
Re: Are we too critical of our own playing abilities
Ditto, on the "never stop learning" idea. Getting there isn't just half the fun, it's all the fun--because you will never arrive at perfection. Nobody does.
Besdes, I thought the "Aw, shucks" thing was part of the whole shtick. Didn't I once see a Zina quip (or quote) something like, "Don't be so modest. You're not that great."
# Posted on June 18th 2008 by mickray
**
That is my ideal session.
Often it is the other way around.
Session becomes "Band Practice"
At home it ends up playing the Tunes.
i.e. like in a traditional session.
I have no reasonable explanation
# Posted on June 18th 2008 by Random_notes
Re: Are we too critical of our own playing abilities
I agree with Pete!
# Posted on June 18th 2008 by Random_notes
Re: Are we too critical of our own playing abilities
I certainly lack confidence about my ability. I mean, could there have been someone around the 16th century who was as good as me?
I lose sleep over this sometimes.
# Posted on June 18th 2008 by bodhran bliss
Re: Are we too critical of our own playing abilities
"could there have been someone around the 16th century who was as good as me?"
Yeah, and he drowned out the mandolin too.
http://www.khafif.com/rhy/iran.jpg
# Posted on June 18th 2008 by Bren
Re: Are we too critical of our own playing abilities
Thanks to a perfectionist parent (Hi Mom! - waves), I tend to by overly self-critical. So it really helped when someone years ago suggested listening for the things you do well in your playing and building on those. Not to ignore the weak spots, but not to dwell on them either. That changed my whole outlook. I went from hearing *only* every squeak and squawk and fumbled note to hearing the nice bits that were slowly creeping into my playing, too. And building on those really did help me improve.
Also, on another thread, wolfbird rightly points out that he can hear me "trying" in the clips I posted. Spot on, and it's what I hear when I listen to those clips, too. Ugh. Yuck. When I find myself trying instead of just playing, I use my "effortless" mantra: drop any concern about playing perfect or impressing anyone and just let the music be effortless. It always sounds better then.
(And obviously I still need to work on that, eh?
)
# Posted on June 18th 2008 by Will CPT
Re: Are we too critical of our own playing abilities
If you were to ask twenty-five people (both musicians and non-musicians) what they think of my playing, you would probably get twenty-five different opinions.
# Posted on June 18th 2008 by fauxcelt
Re: Are we too critical of our own playing abilities
I like to think that I am my own worst critic.
Maybe we worry about things too much.
# Posted on June 18th 2008 by zippydw
Re: Are we too critical of our own playing abilities
"Nobody else seems to notice your failings or perhaps they are just being too polite to tell you."
I fear the stark truth is, to everyone else, the recording sounds no different from how you usually sound, so all the missed notes, squeaks, fluffed intonation etc. are no surprise to them. I would also wager that others will take a certain pleasure in hearing your imperfections because it makes them feel more at ease with their own playing.
# Posted on June 19th 2008 by granama
Re: Are we too critical of our own playing abilities
The first time that Bill Roper and Cliff Flynt tried to record themselves, the experience was so unpleasant for them that they just had to write a song about it.
In the chorus of this song, they sing about the little man (the recording engineer) who sits in back and everybody fears because when it is over, the engineer plays back just what he hears, "every sour note, missed string, and busted chord."
# Posted on June 19th 2008 by fauxcelt
Re: Are we too critical of our own playing abilities
Just thank the almighty for what you can do. No need to ever hurt anyone. Move on to better pickin pals and don't look back.
# Posted on June 24th 2008 by hauke