This doesn't matter too much really but I'm just being curious...
The other day I got caught out when St Anne's Reel was played in a session. Part two as I knew it became Part One and vice versa. So, silly me ended up carrying on (With my Part two) once the tune had finished.
"Apparently", (traditionally) the parts of the tune are reversed depending on whether you are playing Irish music or Shetland music.
How many tunes do you know like this? Dick Gossip's is another one which springs to to mind. I've known it to be played either way too...
Convenience Reel. I picked it up from Seamus Egan's playing where he starts off on the 2nd part.
Paidin O'Rafferty's. Again I got that from an old Oisin album, where they started it on part 2.
"Convenience Reel. I picked it up from Seamus Egan's playing where he starts off on the 2nd part."
Yes - I remember playing that one with you, Danny - you're the only person I know that plays it in sessions. I picked it up from the sheet music, so my version must be the correct one.
What often happens in these situations is that it is impossible to finish the tune, because every time one faction finishes their last part, the opposing faction carries on with *their* last part - and so it goes on, until a loud piano accordion player ploughs impatiently into another tune. If there's no piano accordion player present, the session can be stuck in a groove for weeks, or until the neighbours call out the police.
I thought Calliope House was supposed to be played in D Major. We had never heard of this tune until a flute player moved here from out of state and started playing it for us at our local session. We liked it so much that we learned it also.
Speaking as an experienced accompanist, it can be confusing when someone starts in what you are used to thinking of as the middle of the tune or "B" part, but I usually manage to catch on quickly.
I don't play it very often as it doesn't come up frequently in the sessions I go to. But whenever I have heard it played it is usually played in the same order as given on this site. Not sure why/when I picked it up differently, but I never seem to recognise when played in the more common part order until it is almost over. Then again a lot of emin reels can be difficult to tease apart at times.
I agree with Miss McLeod's. This also gets batted about from A to G as far as keys go. My impression is: most scottish style players play it in A and starting with the octave jumping first bar, whereas most irish style players play it in G with the parts reversed.
I naturally want to play it octave jump first in G. But I think I maybe originally learned it in A and the scottish part order years back. I've since made the key switch, but I can't get my head around starting on the "other" part when someone calls it as the next tune coming in a set.
I know this wasn't about key changing, but the Blackthorn Stick (jig) is also played in either A or G by scottish/Irish style players. Although enough Irish fiddlers locally play it in A that I've become hopelessly confused and usually sit it out. I think the A<->G switch between scotland<-> ireland is not uncommon and I guess is related to the relative abundance of flute/whistle players & the friendliness of these keys to those instruments.
Most of the local fiddlers here play Miss McLeod's Reel in G. The one exception is a fiddler who plays for a local contradance group called the Arkansas Country Dance Society.
I have never heard of anyone playing the Blackthorn Stick jig in A Major but transposing it from G to A should be easy.
LOL David, re Convenience Reel. In reality I usually finish a set with it, as it's a sort of climactic tune which can't aesthetically speaking be followed by anything else IMHO. But I tend to finish it on its 3rd part anyway - go figure!
1) I like to think Mrs Macleod is in A with the octave jump in the A part and Miss McLeod's is in G with the octave jump in the B part.
2) I don't know anyone who plays the Blackthorn Stick in G (but then I'm Scottish).
3) Calliope House was composed in E and is still played in that key throughout much of Scotland with the parts in the order as composed, though vthe Irish version with the parts in the wrong order in D is creeping in.
Speaking as a pianist who accompanies the other musicians most of the time, I play in whatever key the lead player wants to play the tune in. For example, as I have mentioned above, I have played Miss McLeod's in both G and A as well as some other tunes such as Mason's Apron which seems to be played in both G and A also. These are the only two tunes which I can think of right now.
Instead of being Scottish, (unlike DonaldK) I am your typical American of Scottish, Irish, English, Welsh, and only God-Knows-What-Else descent.
If you play John Ryan's Polka backwards note-for-note whilst looking in the mirror the devil appear and take you straight to hell. Not just that, the tune ends Mud! Mud!
Foxhunters Reel is another A/G tune, but in this case I don't think the shift is a scottish/irish thing. We started it in G in this weeks sesh only for Catherine to change it to A on the first repeat: If you are reading this Catherine, you are a naughty naughty girl.
I prefer Calliope House in E, but I can see why the flue/whistle players changed that and it seems to be a popular tune with them. I hadn't realised/noticed that the part order was switched at the same time, must listen more carefully.
Instead of playing John Ryan's Polka backwards, I would recommend playing it in all minor keys such as d minor, g minor, and a minor. The first time I did that at the local session, the bodhran player jokingly said it was John Ryan's evil twin brother.
After the mandolin player heard me do this, he started switching back and forth between D major and d minor when he played Soldier's Joy. The first time through, he would play it in D major; the second time through, he would play it in d minor; then the third and last time, he would finish it in D major.
As for Foxhunter's Reel, the only person at the local session who likes to lead it is a button accordion (or box) player who prefers to play it in G Major.
Johannes--I'm sorry to say that the type of rigid thinking displayed by your question really depresses me. As long as all the players agree, who cares ???
Back to Front tunes
Back to Front tunes
This doesn't matter too much really but I'm just being curious...
The other day I got caught out when St Anne's Reel was played in a session. Part two as I knew it became Part One and vice versa. So, silly me ended up carrying on (With my Part two) once the tune had finished.
"Apparently", (traditionally) the parts of the tune are reversed depending on whether you are playing Irish music or Shetland music.
How many tunes do you know like this? Dick Gossip's is another one which springs to to mind. I've known it to be played either way too...
# Posted on June 18th 2008 by Johannes J
Re: Back to Front tunes
Mrs. (Miss) McLeod's
The Flax in Bloom (reversed on Up Close by Kevin Burke).
# Posted on June 18th 2008 by Henk Bos
Re: Back to Front tunes
Anderson's #1 (Dmaj): http://www.thesession.org/tunes/display/1631/comments
I never heard St. Anne's played that way. Something weird is happening in Scotland!
# Posted on June 18th 2008 by slainte
Re: Back to Front tunes
Yeah. I know Calliope House in E, the right way round. When, at a session, they started playing it in D, the wrong way round, I was completely thrown.
"Right" and "Wrong" being totally objective, of course...
# Posted on June 18th 2008 by Joe CSS
Re: Back to Front tunes
Convenience Reel. I picked it up from Seamus Egan's playing where he starts off on the 2nd part.
Paidin O'Rafferty's. Again I got that from an old Oisin album, where they started it on part 2.
# Posted on June 18th 2008 by Key Maniac Lad
Re: Back to Front tunes
"Convenience Reel. I picked it up from Seamus Egan's playing where he starts off on the 2nd part."
Yes - I remember playing that one with you, Danny - you're the only person I know that plays it in sessions. I picked it up from the sheet music, so my version must be the correct one.
What often happens in these situations is that it is impossible to finish the tune, because every time one faction finishes their last part, the opposing faction carries on with *their* last part - and so it goes on, until a loud piano accordion player ploughs impatiently into another tune. If there's no piano accordion player present, the session can be stuck in a groove for weeks, or until the neighbours call out the police.
# Posted on June 18th 2008 by granama
Re: Back to Front tunes
I often heard Dennis Murphy's polka played in reverse. Then again maybe I'm playing it wrong?
# Posted on June 18th 2008 by Free Reed
Re: Back to Front tunes
I thought Calliope House was supposed to be played in D Major. We had never heard of this tune until a flute player moved here from out of state and started playing it for us at our local session. We liked it so much that we learned it also.
Speaking as an experienced accompanist, it can be confusing when someone starts in what you are used to thinking of as the middle of the tune or "B" part, but I usually manage to catch on quickly.
# Posted on June 18th 2008 by fauxcelt
Re: Back to Front tunes
the roscommon reel. I learned it with the last part (as given here http://www.thesession.org/tunes/display/637) first.
I don't play it very often as it doesn't come up frequently in the sessions I go to. But whenever I have heard it played it is usually played in the same order as given on this site. Not sure why/when I picked it up differently, but I never seem to recognise when played in the more common part order until it is almost over. Then again a lot of emin reels can be difficult to tease apart at times.
- Chris
# Posted on June 18th 2008 by ramblingpitchfork
Re: Back to Front tunes
I agree with Miss McLeod's. This also gets batted about from A to G as far as keys go. My impression is: most scottish style players play it in A and starting with the octave jumping first bar, whereas most irish style players play it in G with the parts reversed.
I naturally want to play it octave jump first in G. But I think I maybe originally learned it in A and the scottish part order years back. I've since made the key switch, but I can't get my head around starting on the "other" part when someone calls it as the next tune coming in a set.
I know this wasn't about key changing, but the Blackthorn Stick (jig) is also played in either A or G by scottish/Irish style players. Although enough Irish fiddlers locally play it in A that I've become hopelessly confused and usually sit it out. I think the A<->G switch between scotland<-> ireland is not uncommon and I guess is related to the relative abundance of flute/whistle players & the friendliness of these keys to those instruments.
- Chris
# Posted on June 18th 2008 by ramblingpitchfork
Re: Back to Front tunes
The Morning Dew. Most start on E3B BAFD.
I like the version on the Historic Recording... Paddy Canny et al. that starts on a nice version of what "most" would call the third part .
I suppose for fairness we should occasionally start on what "most" call the second part. I've not heard that anywhere.
Dan
# Posted on June 18th 2008 by curamach
Re: Back to Front tunes
Most of the local fiddlers here play Miss McLeod's Reel in G. The one exception is a fiddler who plays for a local contradance group called the Arkansas Country Dance Society.
I have never heard of anyone playing the Blackthorn Stick jig in A Major but transposing it from G to A should be easy.
# Posted on June 18th 2008 by fauxcelt
Re: Back to Front tunes
On the piano, it is easier to play both Miss McLeod's and Blackthorn Stick in G major instead of A.
# Posted on June 18th 2008 by fauxcelt
Re: Back to Front tunes
LOL David, re Convenience Reel. In reality I usually finish a set with it, as it's a sort of climactic tune which can't aesthetically speaking be followed by anything else IMHO. But I tend to finish it on its 3rd part anyway - go figure!
# Posted on June 18th 2008 by Key Maniac Lad
Re: Back to Front tunes
1) I like to think Mrs Macleod is in A with the octave jump in the A part and Miss McLeod's is in G with the octave jump in the B part.
2) I don't know anyone who plays the Blackthorn Stick in G (but then I'm Scottish).
3) Calliope House was composed in E and is still played in that key throughout much of Scotland with the parts in the order as composed, though vthe Irish version with the parts in the wrong order in D is creeping in.
# Posted on June 19th 2008 by DonaldK
Re: Back to Front tunes
Speaking as a pianist who accompanies the other musicians most of the time, I play in whatever key the lead player wants to play the tune in. For example, as I have mentioned above, I have played Miss McLeod's in both G and A as well as some other tunes such as Mason's Apron which seems to be played in both G and A also. These are the only two tunes which I can think of right now.
Instead of being Scottish, (unlike DonaldK) I am your typical American of Scottish, Irish, English, Welsh, and only God-Knows-What-Else descent.
# Posted on June 19th 2008 by fauxcelt
Re: Back to Front tunes
If you play John Ryan's Polka backwards note-for-note whilst looking in the mirror the devil appear and take you straight to hell. Not just that, the tune ends Mud! Mud!
Foxhunters Reel is another A/G tune, but in this case I don't think the shift is a scottish/irish thing. We started it in G in this weeks sesh only for Catherine to change it to A on the first repeat: If you are reading this Catherine, you are a naughty naughty girl.
I prefer Calliope House in E, but I can see why the flue/whistle players changed that and it seems to be a popular tune with them. I hadn't realised/noticed that the part order was switched at the same time, must listen more carefully.
Cheers - Chris
# Posted on June 20th 2008 by ramblingpitchfork
Re: Back to Front tunes
Instead of playing John Ryan's Polka backwards, I would recommend playing it in all minor keys such as d minor, g minor, and a minor. The first time I did that at the local session, the bodhran player jokingly said it was John Ryan's evil twin brother.
After the mandolin player heard me do this, he started switching back and forth between D major and d minor when he played Soldier's Joy. The first time through, he would play it in D major; the second time through, he would play it in d minor; then the third and last time, he would finish it in D major.
As for Foxhunter's Reel, the only person at the local session who likes to lead it is a button accordion (or box) player who prefers to play it in G Major.
# Posted on June 21st 2008 by fauxcelt
Re: Back to Front tunes
Johannes--I'm sorry to say that the type of rigid thinking displayed by your question really depresses me. As long as all the players agree, who cares ???
# Posted on June 24th 2008 by hauke