The Session >> Discussions >> transition from regular silver flute to a traditional irish openhole keyless flute?
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transition from regular silver flute to a traditional irish openhole keyless flute?
transition from regular silver flute to a traditional irish openhole keyless flute?
Hi,
I was wondering if anyone had any suggestions for transitioning to an Irish openholed keyless flute. I've been played flute for about 14 or so years now on a regular silver flute. I'm wondering how difficult it will be to transition, are the fingerings quite different or fairly similar. Penny Whistle is quite similar for the majority of it I know. Any suggestions what to look for in a flute as well as far as structure and wood type? I personally prefer deeper tones in my flutes. I do'nt like a high pitched brassy type of tone. Is a laminate gonna interfere with the sound and aging of the wood on the flute as well like it does on guitar? Is it better to look for an older flute with a good wood to get the deeper tones since it's had time to settle or does that not apply to these flutes like it does on violins/fiddles/guitars?
Re: transition from regular silver flute to a traditional irish openhole keyless flute?
The fingerings are somewhat similar; you really can't play F, Bb, Eb, nor Ab very well without keys, at least on mine. (It's a good thing you won't see those notes often in trad.)
My flute requires the "piper's grip", ie, playing with the inner joints of the right hand. F# is played XXX XOO. After a short adjustment period, I found I prefer the Irish keyless over the silver Boehm, which I play along with the kids at school.
Re: transition from regular silver flute to a traditional irish openhole keyless flute?
For choice of the flute, you will have to figure it out yourself, there are great differences in volume and sound. As for the age, I personally wouldn't search to long for good old instruments. Flutes are prone to cracking and (optional) keys might leak. And if it is one of the really old ones (over 100 years old) they might be tuned to a higher frequenzy and tuning them down to A=440 ruins the scale. Additionally they can cost a fortune, probably more than they're worth. If you stumble upon a great one go for it, but you can get old doing so.
The material is typically african blackwood, but there is no hard rule, again it's rather the maker and how he crafted it than what it is made of.
The flutes are roughly categorized in two main designs, "Pratten" which tend to have a larger bore and are louder and "rougher", and "Rudall and Rose" flutes which are quieter and sweeter in tone, but these are only rough guidelines.
So concerning flutes, I would recommend you to try out flutes of different makers, or even better let an experienced player play them to you so he can tell you what they're capable of and you can judge whether you like the sound.
Re: transition from regular silver flute to a traditional irish openhole keyless flute?
If you've been playing for 14 years you must know what you're doing so it would be worth spending a fair amount on a new high-end keyless D flute. There are quite a few good makers (search this site and the Chiff and Fipple flute forum) and if you're lucky one of them may even have a keyless D in stock. I bought one made by George Ormiston last year, having played on a silver flute since 1980, and haven't looked back - the wooden flute has a fantastic rich tone, reedy at the bottom end and very sweet in the 2nd and 3rd octaves. Horses for courses though - it's worth trying out different makers' flutes if you get the chance because they don't come cheap. And remember it does take a while to get used to a wooden flute - your embouchure needs to be tighter and you may need to adjust your hand positions. They also take more air so you can feel like you've done a workout at the end of a session!
Re: transition from regular silver flute to a traditional irish openhole keyless flute?
How proficient are you on the silver flute? If you are classically trained and could hold your own with pros, I would strongly recommend that you go on a bit of an Odyssey and discover what simple-system flutes are all about. I am a big advocate of the eight-key flute for reasons I will be happy to outline if you're interested. A keyless flute will do you, but I personally believe it's stopping short, even though it can be argued that for trad, you don't need keys on a flute any more than you do on a whistle (same fingering); yet, flute is a different animal, trust me.
If you've been playing silver a long time, but are mainly self-taught so you can play with your old Jethro Tull albums, then you might ease yourself in more slowly and start with a less-expensive keyless and see where it takes you.
Don't buy anything you haven't personally played or can't send back if you are dissatisfied.
Re: transition from regular silver flute to a traditional irish openhole keyless flute?
For me, the biggest transition (also made after 14 years of Boehm fluting) involved the embouchure. The simple system flute responds quite differently, and the classical methods of tone production don't yield the characteristic Irish tone.
The fingering on a keyless flute isn't too different--mainly the F# and C-nat. Some significant differences do crop up if you get keys.
I'd recommend a new or used flute by a current maker--there are a bunch of very good ones--rather than antique. Blackwood, mopane, and rosewood are all good options. Unless you're planning on camping with it, I wouldn't go for delrin. Caring for a wood instrument isn't very hard. Many of the same precautions taken when caring for a silver flute apply. (And oiling is occasional and pretty simple.)
Re: transition from regular silver flute to a traditional irish openhole keyless flute?
I too played the concert flute for many years before taking up the keyless "simple system" flute. The fingering system is essentially identical to the penny whistle. I changed to a "piper's grip" on my right hand and kept my left hand grip the same as my concert style playing. I play a variety of flute, type instruments as well as the scottish smallpipes (just recently acquired). They all have their similarities and differences. Have fun and feel free to contact me with questions or observations on your own experiences. Good Luck!
transition from regular silver flute to a traditional irish openhole keyless flute?
transition from regular silver flute to a traditional irish openhole keyless flute?
Hi,
I was wondering if anyone had any suggestions for transitioning to an Irish openholed keyless flute. I've been played flute for about 14 or so years now on a regular silver flute. I'm wondering how difficult it will be to transition, are the fingerings quite different or fairly similar. Penny Whistle is quite similar for the majority of it I know. Any suggestions what to look for in a flute as well as far as structure and wood type? I personally prefer deeper tones in my flutes. I do'nt like a high pitched brassy type of tone. Is a laminate gonna interfere with the sound and aging of the wood on the flute as well like it does on guitar? Is it better to look for an older flute with a good wood to get the deeper tones since it's had time to settle or does that not apply to these flutes like it does on violins/fiddles/guitars?
Thanx,
Erin
# Posted on June 17th 2008 by shamrokme
Re: transition from regular silver flute to a traditional irish openhole keyless flute?
The fingerings are somewhat similar; you really can't play F, Bb, Eb, nor Ab very well without keys, at least on mine. (It's a good thing you won't see those notes often in trad.)
My flute requires the "piper's grip", ie, playing with the inner joints of the right hand. F# is played XXX XOO. After a short adjustment period, I found I prefer the Irish keyless over the silver Boehm, which I play along with the kids at school.
Once you go keyless, you'll never go back!
# Posted on June 17th 2008 by Greg the Piano Tuner
The flute doesn't demand anything
"My flute requires the "piper's grip",
You might require the piper's grip but I doubt the flute does.
# Posted on June 17th 2008 by cocus
Re: transition from regular silver flute to a traditional irish openhole keyless flute?
For choice of the flute, you will have to figure it out yourself, there are great differences in volume and sound. As for the age, I personally wouldn't search to long for good old instruments. Flutes are prone to cracking and (optional) keys might leak. And if it is one of the really old ones (over 100 years old) they might be tuned to a higher frequenzy and tuning them down to A=440 ruins the scale. Additionally they can cost a fortune, probably more than they're worth. If you stumble upon a great one go for it, but you can get old doing so.
The material is typically african blackwood, but there is no hard rule, again it's rather the maker and how he crafted it than what it is made of.
The flutes are roughly categorized in two main designs, "Pratten" which tend to have a larger bore and are louder and "rougher", and "Rudall and Rose" flutes which are quieter and sweeter in tone, but these are only rough guidelines.
So concerning flutes, I would recommend you to try out flutes of different makers, or even better let an experienced player play them to you so he can tell you what they're capable of and you can judge whether you like the sound.
# Posted on June 17th 2008 by TMB
Re: transition from regular silver flute to a traditional irish openhole keyless flute?
If you've been playing for 14 years you must know what you're doing so it would be worth spending a fair amount on a new high-end keyless D flute. There are quite a few good makers (search this site and the Chiff and Fipple flute forum) and if you're lucky one of them may even have a keyless D in stock. I bought one made by George Ormiston last year, having played on a silver flute since 1980, and haven't looked back - the wooden flute has a fantastic rich tone, reedy at the bottom end and very sweet in the 2nd and 3rd octaves. Horses for courses though - it's worth trying out different makers' flutes if you get the chance because they don't come cheap. And remember it does take a while to get used to a wooden flute - your embouchure needs to be tighter and you may need to adjust your hand positions. They also take more air so you can feel like you've done a workout at the end of a session!
# Posted on June 17th 2008 by west-coaster
Re: transition from regular silver flute to a traditional irish openhole keyless flute?
How proficient are you on the silver flute? If you are classically trained and could hold your own with pros, I would strongly recommend that you go on a bit of an Odyssey and discover what simple-system flutes are all about. I am a big advocate of the eight-key flute for reasons I will be happy to outline if you're interested. A keyless flute will do you, but I personally believe it's stopping short, even though it can be argued that for trad, you don't need keys on a flute any more than you do on a whistle (same fingering); yet, flute is a different animal, trust me.
If you've been playing silver a long time, but are mainly self-taught so you can play with your old Jethro Tull albums, then you might ease yourself in more slowly and start with a less-expensive keyless and see where it takes you.
Don't buy anything you haven't personally played or can't send back if you are dissatisfied.
# Posted on June 17th 2008 by Ailin
Re: transition from regular silver flute to a traditional irish openhole keyless flute?
For me, the biggest transition (also made after 14 years of Boehm fluting) involved the embouchure. The simple system flute responds quite differently, and the classical methods of tone production don't yield the characteristic Irish tone.
The fingering on a keyless flute isn't too different--mainly the F# and C-nat. Some significant differences do crop up if you get keys.
I'd recommend a new or used flute by a current maker--there are a bunch of very good ones--rather than antique. Blackwood, mopane, and rosewood are all good options. Unless you're planning on camping with it, I wouldn't go for delrin. Caring for a wood instrument isn't very hard. Many of the same precautions taken when caring for a silver flute apply. (And oiling is occasional and pretty simple.)
A couple of sites that may be useful:
https://www.irishflutestore.com/newsite/
http://www.firescribble.net/flute/
http://chiffboard.mati.ca/viewforum.php?f=2
# Posted on June 17th 2008 by Tintin
Re: transition from regular silver flute to a traditional irish openhole keyless flute?
I too played the concert flute for many years before taking up the keyless "simple system" flute. The fingering system is essentially identical to the penny whistle. I changed to a "piper's grip" on my right hand and kept my left hand grip the same as my concert style playing. I play a variety of flute, type instruments as well as the scottish smallpipes (just recently acquired). They all have their similarities and differences. Have fun and feel free to contact me with questions or observations on your own experiences. Good Luck!
Jason
# Posted on June 17th 2008 by jasonlburnfield