Would you agree that there's very little excitement in Ireland's folk or traditional scene any more?
I was a teenager in the 1970s and grew up with the music of Planxty, the Bothy Band, Stockton's Wing and Clannad. CDs and internet downloads didn't exist; everyone waited with baited breath for the next big album release. Radio programmes would occasionally offer a sneak preview some weeks before an album appeared in the shops but that's all you got.
Nowadays, that sense of excitement is missing. There are more good players than ever to be heard; anyone can make an album and release it to the world (which is a good thing) but that sense of musicians and bands working hard to produce something special seems to be gone. There's music to be heard everywhere but it just seems to be one CD after another, with nothing much to distinguish between them.
Not for one moment am I suggesting that we should go back to the past.
Amhran, do you remember whether you were excited back then by the solo/duet album releases - Matt Molloy's first solo album, Doublin' by the two Paddy's, Tommy Peoples' High Part of the Road? Or was the excitement more of the "pop" enthusiasm for the bands with their novel approaches?
I was excited back then by the folk festivals, the bands you mention, and some of the "folk artists" of the time - Barry Moore, Gay and Terry Woods, etc. But now in my declining years I think I'm getting a lot more from the more understated material by the great players. Not that I don't enjoy the latest offering from Lunasa or Altan...
Actually, going to the pub to play tunes with my friends is one of the highlights of my week. It's pretty exciting, well, for us it is, but we're pretty boring people.
Amhrán, I know where you're coming from, but would have to disagree with the bracketed part of 'anyone can make an album and release it to the world (which is a good thing)'. Frankly, there are just far too many albums being released and, if you saw the stacks of 'vanity' CDs received by music magazines (albums which are substandard at best and downright odious at worst), you'd be seriously wondering whether there ought to be the musicial equivalent of a driving test before these atrocities are unleashed upon the world.
As for excitement, it's still there, but you're unlikely to be alerted in advance. I'm thinking of those sessions where you suddenly realize you're in the presence of a dynamic, imaginative musician whose music you'd never previously encountered or see something on the TV (such as Seán McKeon's astonishing piping on 'The Full Set'), or receive a wonderful album out of the blue (the Ó Maonaigh/O'Donnell CD, for instance).
I doubt whether Ireland has ever had so many extraordinarily fine young musicians and more power to their collective elbows.
And not just Ireland. Here in the States we've got plenty of excitement from the likes of Chris Bain and Sean Gavin (Bua), Jim Eagan, Eliot Grasso, Ivan Goff, to name just a few.
Those of us who were teenage in the 60s awaited each new LP by The Beatles, Bob Dylan, The Incredible String Band and many more in eager anticipation, gulping the pearls of wisdom that dribbled from their hirsute lips as if we were voracious and undiscriminating fish.
These bands and people were on innovative and experimental journeys, so each offering had surprises. But to add to that appeal, and that of the songs themselves, was the fact that they purported to have universal, transcendental messages. (Whether they did, or what these were worth, is another matter.) One could lap these up where one was.
Trad song doesn't have this instant accessibility, if you're not in its particular catchment. The Dubliners and Planxty are singing about the Irish, *for* the Irish - not directly to me; or so it strikes me. As for English trad song, it can be a gruelling world of bowers, maidenheads, yard-arms et cetera, and one of the higher achievements of good performers like Renbourn, Jansch and Sandy Denny was, quite simply, to make it bearable.
I've lost the thread a bit, and must go off to other duties...
I think some of the factors are these; firstly that there is too much production and polishing, resulting in possibly 'lifeless' productions. Secondly people can be afraid to take risks, so avoiding those leaps of faith, the scary bits that might leave them open to ridicule if it goes wrong. understandable of course. thirdly, there is IMO a mass dumbing down , where is the culture of enlightenment? People are fed a culture of Big Brother and celebrity crime watch or whatever. Of course its not universal, any of these things but too prevalent for my liking. The one thing I noticed above all in my time in North Africa was the joy and lightness, around, curiosity, freshness, from people who barely have the clothes on their backs. I always remember the feeling when returning to Europe, people dont smile anymore, its like a collective blanket has sunk over Europe. Of course there are numerous exception and these are just my observations.
If we live life vicariously through the TV , what is left?
Anyhow thats my view . Strictly personal and I don't expect anyone else to share it. The UK was referred to as the septic isle and perhaps the infection is spreading?
Yes, its the unsung players, particularly in live performances and less so on CDs, that give me the feeling of satisfaction that my listening time was well spent. This weekend I was at a recital by a number of pipers, and came away with a better appreciation for the instrument.
I have to agree with a number of poster above , there are loads of amazing , exciting musicians out there in Ireland and the world, I agree that perhaps there are not so many bands, perhaps they are too formulaic? I think there is a wealth of talent . I find Fred Morrison a wild player. Four men[not to forget the dog],Dervish, Altan Nial Vallelly,......are a few names than come to mind., the list is endless, Liz Doherty, ......
Personally I listen mostly to solo artists often old recordings. There is a certain something about them that just does it for me. I suppose it depends on what we, as individuals, find exciting ... takes all sorts eh?
I'd agree that there's not much excitement in the group scene anymore. Not many bands are doing anything interesting these days. I think there's plenty of excitement in soloists and duos and trios though.
Festivals still excite me and a great session can excite me too and they happen every now and again.
I was ony born in 1977 so I've no idea what it was like awaiting the latest Bothy Band release, I suppose you're right in one way though, there are very few artists now who's next CD I just can't wait for whereas I can imagine in the 70's the prospect of a new Bothy Band CD would be wonderful.
I keep saying the trad scene needs a new band to shake up things like the Bothies did, to get away from all the bland commercialism and just take the music by the balls. It'll happen soon I hope.
But to return to Irish trad. There was a sea-change, I think, between The Dubliners / Clancys (entertainers) and Planxty/The Bothies (gods - well, you know what I mean). After that, there was no radical difference between a good set or song by Planxty in 1972 and one by Altan, let's say last year. If one can appreciate the differences, it's going to be out of probably a long, slow growth in one's own knowledge and appreciation of Irish trad and its styles and instruments.
The buzz of an astounding session or live performance can be missing on an album. Maybe more attempts will be made to record more of these minutes and moments of unpremeditated superlative music as they happen; but I think such recordings will still fall flat of the actual experience of being there, as they so often do now.
Pneumo-whatsit :- I remember in 1977 waiting for the new Bothy Band LP that came out that year! ("Out Of The Wind Into The Sun".) I was a bit disappointed; it seemed smooth and bland compared to its predecessors - though still a good record all told. For me, the high point was Molloy starting a set with The Leitrim Fancy - I wished they had let him play it once more round!
No excitement!
No excitement!
Would you agree that there's very little excitement in Ireland's folk or traditional scene any more?
I was a teenager in the 1970s and grew up with the music of Planxty, the Bothy Band, Stockton's Wing and Clannad. CDs and internet downloads didn't exist; everyone waited with baited breath for the next big album release. Radio programmes would occasionally offer a sneak preview some weeks before an album appeared in the shops but that's all you got.
Nowadays, that sense of excitement is missing. There are more good players than ever to be heard; anyone can make an album and release it to the world (which is a good thing) but that sense of musicians and bands working hard to produce something special seems to be gone. There's music to be heard everywhere but it just seems to be one CD after another, with nothing much to distinguish between them.
Not for one moment am I suggesting that we should go back to the past.
Then again, maybe I'm just getting old!
# Posted on June 16th 2008 by amhrán
Re: No excitement!
What a wholesome teenager you must have been.
# Posted on June 16th 2008 by Dow
Re: No excitement!
Hmm. Well, I'm excited.
# Posted on June 16th 2008 by mehitabel23
Re: No excitement!
Amhran, do you remember whether you were excited back then by the solo/duet album releases - Matt Molloy's first solo album, Doublin' by the two Paddy's, Tommy Peoples' High Part of the Road? Or was the excitement more of the "pop" enthusiasm for the bands with their novel approaches?
I was excited back then by the folk festivals, the bands you mention, and some of the "folk artists" of the time - Barry Moore, Gay and Terry Woods, etc. But now in my declining years I think I'm getting a lot more from the more understated material by the great players. Not that I don't enjoy the latest offering from Lunasa or Altan...
# Posted on June 16th 2008 by grego
Re: No excitement!
Actually, going to the pub to play tunes with my friends is one of the highlights of my week. It's pretty exciting, well, for us it is, but we're pretty boring people.
# Posted on June 16th 2008 by SWFL Fiddler
Re: No excitement!
Amhrán, I know where you're coming from, but would have to disagree with the bracketed part of 'anyone can make an album and release it to the world (which is a good thing)'. Frankly, there are just far too many albums being released and, if you saw the stacks of 'vanity' CDs received by music magazines (albums which are substandard at best and downright odious at worst), you'd be seriously wondering whether there ought to be the musicial equivalent of a driving test before these atrocities are unleashed upon the world.
As for excitement, it's still there, but you're unlikely to be alerted in advance. I'm thinking of those sessions where you suddenly realize you're in the presence of a dynamic, imaginative musician whose music you'd never previously encountered or see something on the TV (such as Seán McKeon's astonishing piping on 'The Full Set'), or receive a wonderful album out of the blue (the Ó Maonaigh/O'Donnell CD, for instance).
I doubt whether Ireland has ever had so many extraordinarily fine young musicians and more power to their collective elbows.
# Posted on June 16th 2008 by Floss the Tethers
Re: No excitement!
And not just Ireland. Here in the States we've got plenty of excitement from the likes of Chris Bain and Sean Gavin (Bua), Jim Eagan, Eliot Grasso, Ivan Goff, to name just a few.
# Posted on June 16th 2008 by Will CPT
Re: No excitement!
Those of us who were teenage in the 60s awaited each new LP by The Beatles, Bob Dylan, The Incredible String Band and many more in eager anticipation, gulping the pearls of wisdom that dribbled from their hirsute lips as if we were voracious and undiscriminating fish.
These bands and people were on innovative and experimental journeys, so each offering had surprises. But to add to that appeal, and that of the songs themselves, was the fact that they purported to have universal, transcendental messages. (Whether they did, or what these were worth, is another matter.) One could lap these up where one was.
Trad song doesn't have this instant accessibility, if you're not in its particular catchment. The Dubliners and Planxty are singing about the Irish, *for* the Irish - not directly to me; or so it strikes me. As for English trad song, it can be a gruelling world of bowers, maidenheads, yard-arms et cetera, and one of the higher achievements of good performers like Renbourn, Jansch and Sandy Denny was, quite simply, to make it bearable.
I've lost the thread a bit, and must go off to other duties...
# Posted on June 16th 2008 by nicholas
Re: No excitement!
I think some of the factors are these; firstly that there is too much production and polishing, resulting in possibly 'lifeless' productions. Secondly people can be afraid to take risks, so avoiding those leaps of faith, the scary bits that might leave them open to ridicule if it goes wrong. understandable of course. thirdly, there is IMO a mass dumbing down , where is the culture of enlightenment? People are fed a culture of Big Brother and celebrity crime watch or whatever. Of course its not universal, any of these things but too prevalent for my liking. The one thing I noticed above all in my time in North Africa was the joy and lightness, around, curiosity, freshness, from people who barely have the clothes on their backs. I always remember the feeling when returning to Europe, people dont smile anymore, its like a collective blanket has sunk over Europe. Of course there are numerous exception and these are just my observations.
If we live life vicariously through the TV , what is left?
Anyhow thats my view . Strictly personal and I don't expect anyone else to share it. The UK was referred to as the septic isle and perhaps the infection is spreading?
# Posted on June 16th 2008 by jig
Re: No excitement!
Yes, its the unsung players, particularly in live performances and less so on CDs, that give me the feeling of satisfaction that my listening time was well spent. This weekend I was at a recital by a number of pipers, and came away with a better appreciation for the instrument.
# Posted on June 16th 2008 by southsider
Re: No excitement!
I have to agree with a number of poster above , there are loads of amazing , exciting musicians out there in Ireland and the world, I agree that perhaps there are not so many bands, perhaps they are too formulaic? I think there is a wealth of talent . I find Fred Morrison a wild player. Four men[not to forget the dog],Dervish, Altan Nial Vallelly,......are a few names than come to mind., the list is endless, Liz Doherty, ......
Personally I listen mostly to solo artists often old recordings. There is a certain something about them that just does it for me. I suppose it depends on what we, as individuals, find exciting ... takes all sorts eh?
# Posted on June 16th 2008 by jig
Re: No excitement!
I'd agree that there's not much excitement in the group scene anymore. Not many bands are doing anything interesting these days. I think there's plenty of excitement in soloists and duos and trios though.
Festivals still excite me and a great session can excite me too and they happen every now and again.
I was ony born in 1977 so I've no idea what it was like awaiting the latest Bothy Band release, I suppose you're right in one way though, there are very few artists now who's next CD I just can't wait for whereas I can imagine in the 70's the prospect of a new Bothy Band CD would be wonderful.
I keep saying the trad scene needs a new band to shake up things like the Bothies did, to get away from all the bland commercialism and just take the music by the balls. It'll happen soon I hope.
# Posted on June 16th 2008 by Worldwide Pants
Re: No excitement!
But to return to Irish trad. There was a sea-change, I think, between The Dubliners / Clancys (entertainers) and Planxty/The Bothies (gods - well, you know what I mean). After that, there was no radical difference between a good set or song by Planxty in 1972 and one by Altan, let's say last year. If one can appreciate the differences, it's going to be out of probably a long, slow growth in one's own knowledge and appreciation of Irish trad and its styles and instruments.
The buzz of an astounding session or live performance can be missing on an album. Maybe more attempts will be made to record more of these minutes and moments of unpremeditated superlative music as they happen; but I think such recordings will still fall flat of the actual experience of being there, as they so often do now.
# Posted on June 16th 2008 by nicholas
Re: No excitement!
If I were to catch whiff of a rumour of a new Mike McGoldrick CD, I would be well excited.
Same goes for Lúnasa.
And Flook.
And lots others.
So no.
Maybe you are getting old.
# Posted on June 16th 2008 by Joe CSS
Re: No excitement!
Pneumo-whatsit :- I remember in 1977 waiting for the new Bothy Band LP that came out that year! ("Out Of The Wind Into The Sun".) I was a bit disappointed; it seemed smooth and bland compared to its predecessors - though still a good record all told. For me, the high point was Molloy starting a set with The Leitrim Fancy - I wished they had let him play it once more round!
# Posted on June 17th 2008 by nicholas
Re: No excitement!
I hear you Nicholas.
# Posted on June 24th 2008 by hauke