Is it just me, or has anyone else been aware of the relatively recent demise in standards of writing, spelling, grammar and punctuation on the discussion section of this website?
Probably the same with errors in "musical grammar", which makes me wonder if people who can't write correctly also have difficulties in understanding how harmonies work. However, grammatical slips can sometimes lead to more interesting conversations!
I would have put:
I would have said "*in* the discussion section".
I would definitely not have put a comma after "grammar".
Nor would I have put "the " or even "the" before standards.
Really, boys and girls, I'm most disappointed. You'll all just have to try much harder.
Lazyhound, as a matter of interest I was going to put, in brackets, "Guitarists take note!" after my point about harmonies - but then I thought of all the verbal tomatoes which would come my way and removed that bit!
Oh, all right. Well... according to my dictionary, "cerebrate" is a verb. (Glass houses, KML!)
The necessity of the serial comma is not agreed upon, but I prefer it. Here's apocryphal book dedication often trotted out to illustrate how it can prevent ambiguity:
To my parents, Ayn Rand and God. (Put a comma after "Rand" to clarify the meaning.)
But I am not sure that good spelling and grammar necessarily correlate with musical skills. Plenty of good spellers can't play a note, and vice versa.
Put away the dots comma the only proper way to learn to punctuate is to use your ears full stop The notation does not convey all of the necessary information semi-colon you have to listen to and speak punctuation comma as it cannot be written down properly full stop
Thank you for the grammar lesson, Professor Screetch.
As for cerebrating or thinking (to use the more common word), I don't have to think while I am playing music at a session because I am just the piano player.
my big worry is the young uns. they cant use capital letters and dont seem to understand even the most basic punctuation and often sentence construction eludes them completely and they always use a small i when referring to themselves like wot i just did and now im getting on my own nerves lol.
To answer KML's question seriously: no, it isn't just you, the decline in standards of written English is pretty well documented, and glaringly in evidence in most such forums (fora?) on the Net- although, as has already been mentioned, less so here than in many others.
To me, the question implies that the maintenance of standards is still important, and, as an older person, instinctively, I would agree, but how feasible is this in the context of the kind of instant discourse we are engaged in here, where dynamic, interactive communication is edging out 'correctness' as the norm?
As long as meaning is not impeded, perhaps we should just swallow our annoyance and move on.
I'd be more worried about the standards of discussing musical grammar!!! Also, if the function of language is communication and we're managing to achieve that, is grammar really a big issue?
Enough dissing the young. I know who the major culprit on this board is for poor spelling, seemingly unpredictable capitalisation and redundant punctuation,,,
I have a certificate from a curious little TEFL college I went ti in 1977, saying I am competent (or whatever) to teach English - wait for it - *grammer*.
At any rate, that's how it is printed on the certificate.
I think spelling and grammar are always important and had a (losing) argument with one of my children's teachers about it. What I've noticed, though, is that the standards of typed language on a board like this are a lot like the standards of speaking among friends, compared with, say, an essay you're putting out for public consumption. There's some short hand (like the ITM discussion a bit ago), some slipped subject-verb agreement, misplaced modifiers, and, of course, the fact that the letters on this spot are so tiny that I can't see if I've double-typed anything until it's posted. Old age strikes again. And that sentence fragment works just fine as a conversational gambit but would get flagged in the classroom.
There are different standards in writing, though. One is the comma before the "and" in a series. The writing style I subscribe to forbids that final comma, f'rinstance. To fix the Ayn Rand example, you'd just switch "parents" and "God," say.
Screetch, after reading your comments about the piano player who accompanied Michael Coleman and some of the other comments about this piano player, I would like to know if there is some way I can listen to these recordings so I can decide for myself just how good or how bad this piano player actually was.
The piano accompaniment to the Kid on the Mountain is unbelievable. Surely people back then who were not already familiar with Irish music would have been driven away.
Several comments about that particular piano player read on that site:
"This recording duplicates a medley Coleman recorded on 78 in 1936, but played much more fiercely, and without Kathleen Brennan's surreally awful piano."
"Unfortunately Brennan continues to play one of the five piano chords she seemed to know all through the set, ignoring the key change to G in the Trip."
"Kathleen Brennan"...and such a fine Irish name, too. It reminds me of my own first, painful attempts to be a "Trad" piano player; I had no clue whatsoever about what I was supposed to do, only that it had to sound, erm, "Irish".
Anyway, Fiddler, thanks for the link, I didn't know that some of the Coleman stuff was online. Fascinating to listen to.
"Surreally awful?" How dare he/she/they. You can't just stick an 'ly' on the end of an adjective, you know, and pretend it's an adverb- that's an athema.
Anyway, the poor woman was probably just trying to bring a bit of Scott Joplin to the party...
You're wrong about the commas, grego. I think you'll find that that site you linked to is American, and therefore has nothing to do with the English language. KML writes beautiful English. Most Scots write and speak better English than their English counterparts.
Thank you for providing the link to Coleman's recordings, SWFL Fiddler. I will have to wait until tomorrow to be brave, courageous, and foolhardy by listening to it because I am working a double shift (sixteen hours) today and won't get home until after midnight. However, tomorrow, I am scheduled to work only eight hours and will probably be able to listen when I get home.
P-K, I accidentally and unintentionally brought some of the spirit(?) of Scott Joplin to the local Irish Session when I played the hornpipe Rights Of Man like a ragtime piano piece. The bodhran player gave my version of Rights Of Man the nickname "Irish Ragtime". And do be careful about getting your athemas and enemas mixed up--especially if you are constipated.
Now guys, I don't mean to harp, but there is proper English spelling, and then there is that economy transatlantic version that leaves out half the letters...
Note that this thread seems to have scared away some of our spelling and grammar impared bretheren!!!!! Perhaps KML has found an approach that keeps the discussion on a bit of a higher level.
Would Ancient Geeks be better than Ancient Greeks?
Instead of being subjunctive, you need to try to be objective.
Mel Who? Just kidding, I have watched and enjoyed many of his movies.
Oop's- that should of course be 'prose and con's'- thanks, Steve
You can get pluperfect subjunctive, though.
"If I had known you were coming, I'd have baked a cake."
No we haven't. There at least remains to be discussed the Middle Voice (amongst other verbal constructs).
Active Voice: I'm drinking coffee
Passive Voice: That coffee has just been drunk
Middle Voice: I'll get me a coffee
I have the impression that the middle voice is slightly more common in American English than over this side of the Atlantic. Any comments from the US?
I'm a cerebrate, get me out of here.
I'm a cerebrate, get me out of here.
Is it just me, or has anyone else been aware of the relatively recent demise in standards of writing, spelling, grammar and punctuation on the discussion section of this website?
# Posted on June 16th 2008 by Key Maniac Lad
Re: I'm a cerebrate, get me out of here.
I would have said "in" the discussion section.
# Posted on June 16th 2008 by Dow
Re: I'm a cerebrate, get me out of here.
I would have put a comma after "grammar".
# Posted on June 16th 2008 by grego
Re: I'm a cerebrate, get me out of here.
It's not just this website. It's every website. No one knows how to spell anymore. Actually it's better on this website than many others I've seen.
# Posted on June 16th 2008 by kennedy
Re: I'm a cerebrate, get me out of here.
I would have put "the " before standards.
Yes KML, you've proved your theory correct with your own post!
I'm not serious by the way [it can be hard to pass a joke through boards like this.]
# Posted on June 16th 2008 by PaddyCmusic
Re: I'm a cerebrate, get me out of here.
Woops, my full-stop (period) should have been inside the inverted commas (quotation marks) above. Sorry!
# Posted on June 16th 2008 by grego
Re: I'm a cerebrate, get me out of here.
Probably the same with errors in "musical grammar", which makes me wonder if people who can't write correctly also have difficulties in understanding how harmonies work. However, grammatical slips can sometimes lead to more interesting conversations!
# Posted on June 16th 2008 by Mark Harmer
Re: I'm a cerebrate, get me out of here.
... which leads to the interesting, but separate topic: when mistakes can be passed off as "ornamentation."
# Posted on June 16th 2008 by grego
Re: I'm a cerebrate, get me out of here.
I would have put:
I would have said "*in* the discussion section".
I would definitely not have put a comma after "grammar".
Nor would I have put "the " or even "the" before standards.
Really, boys and girls, I'm most disappointed. You'll all just have to try much harder.
# Posted on June 16th 2008 by Key Maniac Lad
Re: I'm a cerebrate, get me out of here.
I once overheard this conversation in the pub where a punter was talking to a teacher about the decline in educational standards:
Teacher (agreeing): "Well, some of them have problems with their punctuation"
Punter (after a pause): "What, like they don't get there on time?"
# Posted on June 16th 2008 by Mark Harmer
Re: I'm a cerebrate, get me out of here.
But slips in harmony (by a guitarist for example) can ruin a tune!
# Posted on June 16th 2008 by lazyhound
Re: I'm a cerebrate, get me out of here.
Should have been:
I would definitely not have put a comma after "grammar."
The full-stop belongs inside the inverted commas!
Sheesh!
# Posted on June 16th 2008 by grego
Re: I'm a cerebrate, get me out of here.
Lazyhound, as a matter of interest I was going to put, in brackets, "Guitarists take note!" after my point about harmonies - but then I thought of all the verbal tomatoes which would come my way and removed that bit!
# Posted on June 16th 2008 by Mark Harmer
Re: I'm a cerebrate, get me out of here.
With regards to putting the comma after "grammar," please refer to Rule 1 in the following:
http://www.grammarbook.com/punctuation/commas.asp
# Posted on June 16th 2008 by grego
Re: I'm a cerebrate, get me out of here.
Oh, all right. Well... according to my dictionary, "cerebrate" is a verb. (Glass houses, KML!)
The necessity of the serial comma is not agreed upon, but I prefer it. Here's apocryphal book dedication often trotted out to illustrate how it can prevent ambiguity:
To my parents, Ayn Rand and God. (Put a comma after "Rand" to clarify the meaning.)
But I am not sure that good spelling and grammar necessarily correlate with musical skills. Plenty of good spellers can't play a note, and vice versa.
# Posted on June 16th 2008 by mickray
Re: I'm a cerebrate, get me out of here.
cerebrate, cerebrate, dance to the music...
# Posted on June 16th 2008 by wyogal
Re: I'm a cerebrate, get me out of here.
oops--*the* apocryphal book quote.
I guess I should dress in the basement, too. ;>}
# Posted on June 16th 2008 by mickray
Re: I'm a cerebrate, get me out of here.
I thinks da spellin iz OK, an all da grammur iz goot to.
# Posted on June 16th 2008 by SWFL Fiddler
Re: I'm a cerebrate, get me out of here.
Yes, and cerebrate is a verb.
cerebrate
A verb
1 think, cogitate, cerebrate
# Posted on June 16th 2008 by SWFL Fiddler
Re: I'm a cerebrate, get me out of here.
Grego, I think you should have used the expression "with regard to", not "with regards to".
# Posted on June 16th 2008 by Dow
Re: I'm a cerebrate, get me out of here.
D'oh!
(or is it Doh?)
# Posted on June 16th 2008 by grego
Re: I'm a cerebrate, get me out of here.
When I first read this (quickly) I thought: "If someone was celebate, why would they need to get out of here?"
# Posted on June 16th 2008 by SWFL Fiddler
Re: I'm a cerebrate, get me out of here.
Put away the dots comma the only proper way to learn to punctuate is to use your ears full stop The notation does not convey all of the necessary information semi-colon you have to listen to and speak punctuation comma as it cannot be written down properly full stop
# Posted on June 16th 2008 by Marklar
Re: I'm a cerebrate, get me out of here.
Frankry, I wish the Catholic church would stop asking the Priests to be cerebrate. We'd have far ress probrems in the church..
# Posted on June 16th 2008 by Jusa Nutter Eejit
Re: I'm a cerebrate, get me out of here.
Surely "demise of" not "demise in," but I have doubts about use of "demise" in this context anyway. Its implications are a bit too complete and final!
# Posted on June 16th 2008 by TomB-R
Re: I'm a cerebrate, get me out of here.
It's all a load of Floccinaucinihilipilification
# Posted on June 16th 2008 by Worldwide Pants
Re: I'm a cerebrate, get me out of here.
Thank you for the grammar lesson, Professor Screetch.
As for cerebrating or thinking (to use the more common word), I don't have to think while I am playing music at a session because I am just the piano player.
# Posted on June 16th 2008 by fauxcelt
Re: I'm a cerebrate, get me out of here.
http://www.oldwestsigns.com/signs/custom/pleasedontshootthepianoplayerlarge.gif
# Posted on June 16th 2008 by SWFL Fiddler
Re: I'm a cerebrate, get me out of here.
my big worry is the young uns. they cant use capital letters and dont seem to understand even the most basic punctuation and often sentence construction eludes them completely and they always use a small i when referring to themselves like wot i just did and now im getting on my own nerves lol.
# Posted on June 16th 2008 by Sugarfoot Jack
Re: I'm a cerebrate, get me out of here.
To answer KML's question seriously: no, it isn't just you, the decline in standards of written English is pretty well documented, and glaringly in evidence in most such forums (fora?) on the Net- although, as has already been mentioned, less so here than in many others.
To me, the question implies that the maintenance of standards is still important, and, as an older person, instinctively, I would agree, but how feasible is this in the context of the kind of instant discourse we are engaged in here, where dynamic, interactive communication is edging out 'correctness' as the norm?
As long as meaning is not impeded, perhaps we should just swallow our annoyance and move on.
# Posted on June 16th 2008 by P-K
Re: I'm a cerebrate, get me out of here.
So that's how Coleman's piano player survived...I always wondered about that.
# Posted on June 16th 2008 by Marklar
Re: I'm a cerebrate, get me out of here.
I'd be more worried about the standards of discussing musical grammar!!! Also, if the function of language is communication and we're managing to achieve that, is grammar really a big issue?
# Posted on June 16th 2008 by martin t
Re: I'm a cerebrate, get me out of here.
What are you getting at, martin t?
# Posted on June 16th 2008 by grego
Re: I'm a cerebrate, get me out of here.
# Posted on June 16th 2008 by grego
Re: I'm a cerebrate, get me out of here.
Enough dissing the young. I know who the major culprit on this board is for poor spelling, seemingly unpredictable capitalisation and redundant punctuation,,,
MEHITABEL
# Posted on June 16th 2008 by mehitabel23
Re: I'm a cerebrate, get me out of here.
But seriously, can good readers learn how to spot an ellipsis from the dots ... ?
# Posted on June 16th 2008 by Bren
Re: I'm a cerebrate, get me out of here.
I'll come clean, Sceetch- I was that piano player. I survived by switching to fiddle
# Posted on June 16th 2008 by P-K
Re: I'm a cerebrate, get me out of here.
Sorry, Sc-R-eetch- as you can see, I don't know my r's from my elbow.
# Posted on June 16th 2008 by P-K
Re: I'm a cerebrate, get me out of here.
I have a certificate from a curious little TEFL college I went ti in 1977, saying I am competent (or whatever) to teach English - wait for it - *grammer*.
At any rate, that's how it is printed on the certificate.
# Posted on June 16th 2008 by nicholas
Re: I'm a cerebrate, get me out of here.
Saw a nice cartoon recently, which sums up the situation pretty well- (you'll have to imagine, obviously...)
[man sitting tapping away at computer- wife standing behind him, saying to friend- ]
"You'll have to excuse Gerald, he gets carried away by the sight of his own voice..."
# Posted on June 16th 2008 by P-K
Re: I'm a cerebrate, get me out of here.
I think spelling and grammar are always important and had a (losing) argument with one of my children's teachers about it. What I've noticed, though, is that the standards of typed language on a board like this are a lot like the standards of speaking among friends, compared with, say, an essay you're putting out for public consumption. There's some short hand (like the ITM discussion a bit ago), some slipped subject-verb agreement, misplaced modifiers, and, of course, the fact that the letters on this spot are so tiny that I can't see if I've double-typed anything until it's posted. Old age strikes again. And that sentence fragment works just fine as a conversational gambit but would get flagged in the classroom.
There are different standards in writing, though. One is the comma before the "and" in a series. The writing style I subscribe to forbids that final comma, f'rinstance. To fix the Ayn Rand example, you'd just switch "parents" and "God," say.
# Posted on June 16th 2008 by Mandogal
Re: I'm a cerebrate, get me out of here.
Mandogal, if you use Firefox, pressing ctrl and the '+' key makes letters bigger.
# Posted on June 16th 2008 by Ramiro
Re: I'm a cerebrate, get me out of here.
Screetch, after reading your comments about the piano player who accompanied Michael Coleman and some of the other comments about this piano player, I would like to know if there is some way I can listen to these recordings so I can decide for myself just how good or how bad this piano player actually was.
# Posted on June 16th 2008 by fauxcelt
Re: I'm a cerebrate, get me out of here.
http://www.archive.org/search.php?query=creator%3A%22Michael%20Coleman%22
# Posted on June 16th 2008 by SWFL Fiddler
Re: I'm a cerebrate, get me out of here.
Sorry, for fauxcelt, for Coleman's piano player.
# Posted on June 16th 2008 by SWFL Fiddler
Re: I'm a cerebrate, get me out of here.
It is, very gratifying, to see that all of you, are taking the problem, of punctuation, so very, seriously,.
# Posted on June 16th 2008 by Key Maniac Lad
Re: I'm a cerebrate, get me out of here.
The piano accompaniment to the Kid on the Mountain is unbelievable. Surely people back then who were not already familiar with Irish music would have been driven away.
# Posted on June 16th 2008 by grego
Re: I'm a cerebrate, get me out of here.
Several comments about that particular piano player read on that site:
"This recording duplicates a medley Coleman recorded on 78 in 1936, but played much more fiercely, and without Kathleen Brennan's surreally awful piano."
"Unfortunately Brennan continues to play one of the five piano chords she seemed to know all through the set, ignoring the key change to G in the Trip."
# Posted on June 16th 2008 by Ramiro
Re: I'm a cerebrate, get me out of here.
We, may be, punctilious, KML, but, all those commas, are making us comatose.
# Posted on June 16th 2008 by P-K
Re: I'm a cerebrate, get me out of here.
He's a real comma chameleon.
# Posted on June 16th 2008 by SWFL Fiddler
Warning: Incomplete sentences coming up...
"Kathleen Brennan"...and such a fine Irish name, too. It reminds me of my own first, painful attempts to be a "Trad" piano player; I had no clue whatsoever about what I was supposed to do, only that it had to sound, erm, "Irish".
Anyway, Fiddler, thanks for the link, I didn't know that some of the Coleman stuff was online. Fascinating to listen to.
# Posted on June 16th 2008 by tomw
Re: I'm a cerebrate, get me out of here.
My pleasure tomw, and good find on the funny comments, Ramiro. "...surreally awful..."
# Posted on June 16th 2008 by SWFL Fiddler
Re: I'm a cerebrate, get me out of here.
"Surreally awful?" How dare he/she/they. You can't just stick an 'ly' on the end of an adjective, you know, and pretend it's an adverb- that's an athema.
Anyway, the poor woman was probably just trying to bring a bit of Scott Joplin to the party...
# Posted on June 16th 2008 by P-K
Re: I'm a cerebrate, get me out of here.
You're wrong about the commas, grego. I think you'll find that that site you linked to is American, and therefore has nothing to do with the English language. KML writes beautiful English. Most Scots write and speak better English than their English counterparts.
# Posted on June 16th 2008 by benhall.1
Re: I'm a cerebrate, get me out of here.
Hmmmm. And when I grew up in Ireland we were told that the best English was spoken in Dublin.
I surrender. Yes, the website author is American, a talk-show host, and a lady.
And KML is a gentleman, a scholar, and a writer of beautiful English.
# Posted on June 16th 2008 by grego
Re: I'm a cerebrate, get me out of here.
Right P-K? ...and on the grammar thread, too. For shame.
# Posted on June 16th 2008 by SWFL Fiddler
Re: I'm a cerebrate, get me out of here.
since receiving an email from a journalist in which all letters were lower case i came to adopt his time saving quirk when posting on the net.
exceptions would be when i refer to names unless the person uses the lower case her/himself.
i hope to communicate clearly.
however i'm not going to be reaching for a copy of Fowler when writing on this board.
the only drawback is when i sometimes write a lower case 'i' in formal letters.
on the whole i can understand the meaning of most of the posts on this site although there are some contributions that i do find hard to understand.
has there been a ' recent demise in standards of writing, spelling, grammar and punctuation on the discussion section of this website?'
i would say no.
# Posted on June 16th 2008 by biggus dave
Re: I'm a cerebrate, get me out of here.
SWFL- beware of confusing your athemas and your enemas...very dangerous
# Posted on June 16th 2008 by P-K
Re: I'm a cerebrate, get me out of here.
Thank you for providing the link to Coleman's recordings, SWFL Fiddler. I will have to wait until tomorrow to be brave, courageous, and foolhardy by listening to it because I am working a double shift (sixteen hours) today and won't get home until after midnight. However, tomorrow, I am scheduled to work only eight hours and will probably be able to listen when I get home.
P-K, I accidentally and unintentionally brought some of the spirit(?) of Scott Joplin to the local Irish Session when I played the hornpipe Rights Of Man like a ragtime piano piece. The bodhran player gave my version of Rights Of Man the nickname "Irish Ragtime". And do be careful about getting your athemas and enemas mixed up--especially if you are constipated.
# Posted on June 16th 2008 by fauxcelt
Re: I'm a cerebrate, get me out of here.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't most of what is produced by an enema pretty much anathema anyway?
Seeing as that's about as fancy I can make the potty humor, I'll go ahead wrap it up there.
# Posted on June 16th 2008 by SWFL Fiddler
Re: I'm a cerebrate, get me out of here.
Yes, SWFL Fiddler, you are correct about the results of an enema (said the man who has worked in a hospital for twenty-five years).
# Posted on June 17th 2008 by fauxcelt
Re: I'm a cerebrate, get me out of here.
[From Futurama;}
Patient: That's enormous--I can't possibly swallow that!
Doctor: Good news--it's a suppository!
[ouch]
# Posted on June 17th 2008 by Will CPT
Re: I'm a cerebrate, get me out of here.
Surely the rhythm , nuance and vocal execution of the English language can not be accurately represented on the written page.
# Posted on June 17th 2008 by chuneboi slim
Re: I'm a cerebrate, get me out of here.
Oh, no, not anatha enema- we've reached rock bottom here- and that's my last word on the matter, promise.
# Posted on June 17th 2008 by P-K
Re: I'm a cerebrate, get me out of here.
Seplinlg deson't awlyas mttaer - cmoprheesnion cmoes form the cnotxet and gnerael cnotnet of the msseage.
# Posted on June 17th 2008 by Mark Harmer
Re: I'm a cerebrate, get me out of here.
Are you serious about the enema or are you just going through the motions?
Coat...
# Posted on June 17th 2008 by Geoff Pollitt
Re: I'm a cerebrate, get me out of here.
Mark- tish is orrywing- yuo riwte liek i paly.
# Posted on June 17th 2008 by P-K
Re: I'm a cerebrate, get me out of here.
theancientgreekswrotetheirgreatliteraturewithoutspacesbetweenthewordsandwithoutanypuncutationwhatsoevertheyalsowroteeverythingincapitalswhichiamnotdoinghereotherwisesomepeopleherewhoshallremainananymouswillmoanthatimshoutingatthemwhichtheydoubtlessdeserveanywaysowhycantwegobacktothatoldclassicalgreeksystemandwhilewereaboutitwhynotabolishbarlinesinsheetmusicthefrenchcomposerericsatiegotawaywithitsoidontseewhywecantandmywordprocessorsspellcheckerhasnowgivenuptheghost
# Posted on June 17th 2008 by lazyhound
Re: I'm a cerebrate, get me out of here.
Is that the longest ever post?
# Posted on June 17th 2008 by Mark Harmer
Re: I'm a cerebrate, get me out of here.
With friends like the ancient Greeks, who needs enemas?
# Posted on June 17th 2008 by P-K
Re: I'm a cerebrate, get me out of here.
P-K is channeling Mel Brooks....
# Posted on June 17th 2008 by Will CPT
Re: I'm a cerebrate, get me out of here.
Is anyone going to try to get to the bottom of this business of enemas, athemas, and potty humor? Suppository not?
# Posted on June 17th 2008 by fauxcelt
Re: I'm a cerebrate, get me out of here.
Now guys, I don't mean to harp, but there is proper English spelling, and then there is that economy transatlantic version that leaves out half the letters...
# Posted on June 17th 2008 by P-K
Re: I'm a cerebrate, get me out of here.
Note that this thread seems to have scared away some of our spelling and grammar impared bretheren!!!!! Perhaps KML has found an approach that keeps the discussion on a bit of a higher level.
# Posted on June 18th 2008 by AlBrown
Re: I'm a cerebrate, get me out of here.
Yep- and there we were hoping for a bit of opiniated slagging on the pro's and con's of the pluperfect subjunctive.
# Posted on June 18th 2008 by P-K
Re: I'm a cerebrate, get me out of here.
By the way, Al- that's 'brethren' over here (tee hee)
# Posted on June 18th 2008 by P-K
Re: I'm a cerebrate, get me out of here.
Would Ancient Geeks be better than Ancient Greeks?
Instead of being subjunctive, you need to try to be objective.
Mel Who? Just kidding, I have watched and enjoyed many of his movies.
# Posted on June 18th 2008 by fauxcelt
Re: I'm a cerebrate, get me out of here.
"Pro's and con's?" Help me somebody (John Humphrys, perhaps)...
# Posted on June 19th 2008 by Steve Shaw
Re: I'm a cerebrate, get me out of here.
You can't get pluperfect subjunctive.
Pluperfect eg: "he had already played that tune."
Subjunctive eg: "if I were to play a tune now..."
# Posted on June 19th 2008 by Key Maniac Lad
Re: I'm a cerebrate, get me out of here.
Oop's- that should of course be 'prose and con's'- thanks, Steve
You can get pluperfect subjunctive, though.
"If I had known you were coming, I'd have baked a cake."
# Posted on June 19th 2008 by P-K
Re: I'm a cerebrate, get me out of here.
Aha, very good P-K. Thanks for correcting me. If I had known you were so clever at grammar I wouldn't have tried to correct you
# Posted on June 19th 2008 by Key Maniac Lad
Re: I'm a cerebrate, get me out of here.
All grammar geeks should invest in this:
http://www.whitesmoke.com/
# Posted on June 19th 2008 by Key Maniac Lad
Re: I'm a cerebrate, get me out of here.
That's OK- another piece of cake?
# Posted on June 19th 2008 by P-K
Re: I'm a cerebrate, get me out of here.
Thank you for the grammar lesson, Professors P-K and Key Maniac Lad.
# Posted on June 19th 2008 by fauxcelt
Re: I'm a cerebrate, get me out of here.
Love thy enemas:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080619/ap_on_fe_st/russia_enema_monument;_ylt=Ara5OaPZ8QDg3lOP0VQukTqs0NUE
I'm not making this up.
# Posted on June 19th 2008 by Will CPT
Re: I'm a cerebrate, get me out of here.
Will- and you thought we Brits were nuts
If this is the Caucasus, God knows what goes on in the Urals.
# Posted on June 20th 2008 by P-K
Re: I'm a cerebrate, get me out of here.
I know this is the grammar thread, but........
in the interests of good pedagogy, perhaps it's time we moved on from discussing the colon...
# Posted on June 20th 2008 by P-K
Re: I'm a cerebrate, get me out of here.
We appear to have come to a full stop.
# Posted on June 20th 2008 by Geoff Pollitt
Re: I'm a cerebrate, get me out of here.
No we haven't. There at least remains to be discussed the Middle Voice (amongst other verbal constructs).
Active Voice: I'm drinking coffee
Passive Voice: That coffee has just been drunk
Middle Voice: I'll get me a coffee
I have the impression that the middle voice is slightly more common in American English than over this side of the Atlantic. Any comments from the US?
# Posted on June 20th 2008 by lazyhound
Re: I'm a cerebrate, get me out of here.
Are they up yet? 'Awesome' springs to mind.
# Posted on June 20th 2008 by P-K