So, one thing I've noticed while jaunting about the globe...Americans generally tend to eat dinner rather early compared to everywhere else, anywhere from 5 to 8 or so. In Paris, they thought we were weird for coming in for dinner at about 7:30 or 8, in London we were often the only people in the restaurants at 8 and people were just coming in as we left. Or is it just big cities?
Same thing with sessions -- oftentimes just as I'm getting warmed up at around 10:30 or so, people are starting to leave, citing work, tiredness, whatever, having started at around 7 or so, whereas in Ireland I noted that sessions often went til after hours as a matter of course, after starting as late as 9...
What's up with that? Theories? Explanations?
On the other hand, maybe we're catching up (going later) -- it's only just gone about twenty past 9 and we're just now starting to think about dinner...
I'm like you Zina everyone fades off just when I'm getting my second wind. I also think we Yanks work too blasted much. I think we should enjoy life more and work less The sessions in Ireland must go into the wee hours starting that late. Don't the have to close down at a certain time - like last call or something? I'm getting excited about my trip - Only 9 days to go before I leave !!!***!!!
It's just simply cultural differences. I am currently residing in central Pennsylvania, which is a fairly conservative area. I work from 3pm to 8pm six days a week, and by the time I come home bars here are empty by 11pm on a Saturday night because people get up early on Sunday mornings for church. That's just the way things are here.
It's different in Philadelphia (where I gig a lot) and Boston (where I go to college) because there are lots more people from different cultural backgrounds in those larger cities. So of course the sessions kick up after 10.30pm and pubs are full until close even on a Saturday night.
Is there a lot of cultural or racial diversity where you live? I have lived in Ireland and several other European countries, traveled extensively throughout Europe and North America and lived in lots of different cities up and down the East coast. There are definitely distinct differences between the people from city to city, but in general American and European culture is very, very different. European culture (I'm including England and Ireland here too) is a lot more laid-back and relaxed, they tend to take more time out to enjoy their friends and families, set aside time for socializing and pursuing hobbies and cultural activities such as music/sessions, art, theatre, that sort of thing. Europeans work hard and play hard. Americans work too hard and don't spend enough time playing hard. Our culture is very much centered around the belief that success=monetary wealth. I don't think American people in general do not take enough time to enjoy life.
Please don't jump on me for saying any of this! I don't think that many of my comments apply to the majority of people who are into playing Irish music, because I find that those people are more in tune with the European take on life. However, after traveling/living in all of those different places, these are just the observations I've noted.
I've noticed in the bigger American cities the sessions go on til the cock crows. I remember one session that went til 8am. I hadn't a clue till I stepped outside & checked my watch.
This is the exception not the rule though, most sessions across the US probably go til around 11 on average. It's due to the the fact that everybody needs pay off their ridiculous debts they've caused themselves along the road to keeping up with the Jones's. Does anybody really need a 72" TV or an SUV? It's all because the average American can't tell the difference between their wants & their needs.
In the UK the pubs close at around 11pm so generally a session would finish about then...unless the landlord closes the curtains to the outside world Quite a usual occurence in the past but a rare thing these days.... at least in my neck of the woods.
Where are the sessions that start as early as 9.00pm most round here don't start until after 10.00pm and some between 11.00pm and 11.30pm. Perhaps your'e thinking of the tourist areas .. Doolin maybe ?
You're from Ireland, then Bernie, I take it. I've noticed that about Ireland - if you turned up at 9.00pm you'd be on your own for an hour!
Another observation is that here in London, weekday sessions tend to start at 9.30, maybe even 10.00, whereas Sunday sessions it's 9.00! Pubs are supposed to close at 11.00 on weekdays and 10.30 on a Sunday, hence the half hour forward.
The reality is that, for the sessions I go to anyway, the pubs tend to finish much later, so the 9.00pm on Sunday practice is rather vestigial.
Another thing, related to this - if you are under 14, but would like to go to a night-time session, what would you do? Or if you had kid(s) of that age and wanted to take them to a sesh, legally you're banjaxed. In practice, from my experience, it hasn't happened - except once - that was Sandy Bell's in Edinburgh - I think they don't allow children full stop, as it's so smoky. The time I attempted to gain entry to there with my girl Roisin it was mid afternoon!
That sure is a great way to ensure The Music is passed on to the next generation!
I'm irish and have never played in a pub session that has started before 10pm. That's an early start for most sessions here. When we get the call for last orders we buy five or six drinks to keep us going for another while!!!
Carrie*
Yes danny Co Clare (East) Kids are allowed in pubs here but there is talk of them not being allowed in after 8 or 9pm. We do get a lot of tellented kids in the sessions during the school holidays and it will be disasterous if they are not allowed in any more, the sessions are great training grounds for them. Personally I can't see anything wrong with kids in pubs if they are accomapnied by a parent (or in my case their Grandad). The new liquor laws will probably kill the sessions and tourism along with it if they are passed AND implemented by the gardae (there's some doubt about that) and of course upheld by the courts. As one might expect there is tremendous opposition from the publicans.
That would be sad. You guys should start some kinda petition to make exceptions for kids in sessions.
But at least they won't be able to use smoky atmosphere as an excuse for not letting kids in.
(sorry for hijacking this a bit, Zina!)
I definitely agree with Cara--our culture (U.S.) is centered around the beleif that success=monetary wealth, and also with Brad, that many people can't tell their material needs from wants. But my husband is a baker--he's up by 3:30 on average when he has to work. sometimes as early as 2:00. So now I am on his schedule in a modified way. Before I was married I could stay up much later--now we are the ones leaving the session by 11:00 (He says it's good to leave at the height of the "party" before things get sloppy!). So now, if I sleep til 6:30 on a day I am off from work, that's late!
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I am a Yank from upstate NY,
To be perfectly honest i don't understand the average Yank myself!!! I know I work too much, most days I get up at 5:30am and don't get home 6 p.m. at least five days a week (I manage an ICU at a small hospital)...I end up being on call for the remander of the week...I have to schedule my time off for sessions...literally!! My wife and daughter are usually in bed at 8pm the latest my wife will go to bed is 9:30pm. Most nights I take my fiddle downstairs and play until 1-2 n the morning (I am usually tired out the next morning..nothing coffee can't fix.) The way I figure it I am just gonna die young!!
Last year I spent some time working further north and on my time off I wandered into Canada where they werejust warming up a little past mid-night...And still going by 4 a.m.!!! I couldn't believe it!! Here the sessions end early, if they run late they are getting over by 10 pm... Now I would play intil my arms fell off..I don't understand people!!! (I know if I started hosting seeions in my home I would get kicked out by the end of the week...or whipped as per usual!!) I know...pathetic aren't I...
You know, I hadn't thought of that whole gimme-gimme thing having an impact on why Americans go to bed early. My husband spends a lot of our discretionary money on toys (we don't have kids), and we have a large TV (incredible speakers, Martin-Logan's) and even an SUV. I spend a lot of time making fun of him for it ("but honey, I don't *need* a new computer...or is this just an excuse to buy yourself a new video card?"), but i don't really mind too much, as I know he can live without them when he has to.
He used to be a club and radio dj, so we used to be up til 3 or 4 am as a matter of course most nights, usually out running around wondering why everyone else was in bed already.
These days we're in bed by midnight and feel like that's a necessary thing. Of course, we're not getting any younger, although we haven't hit that point yet where we need less sleep to get by again.
Still, if I'm at a session, closing time seems to come far too early. Deb, did you see the notice about a possible session up in Louisville at that outdoor plaza? Maybe that one can go later, I don't think there's any houses round there... long way for you to come for music, but what the heck...!
Cara, no, Denver isn't what I'd call an international sort of place. It's better now than it was, but I'm from SF originally, and Denver's still pretty homogenized by comparison. When I first came here, I was one of the few Asians in the city -- there's a Asian Pacific foundation that I volunteered at for while, and we joked that it was weird to be around so many Asians again whenever we got together...
Going back to SF to visit family is like going to Europe, of course. My European friends all say it's the American city most like Europe...
Wow! You yanks (isn't that a term for northern people? or am I talking civil war?) - I don't know how you've any time left after working, for playing/practicing tunes, doing things with the family, DIY, hitting this & other websites, doing sport, reading, watching telly, or just general chilling out with friends and neighbours in the garden. Work is a means to those several ends cited for me. Trouble is, I quite like work as well cause we get to help discover stuff...
"Yanks" is a derivative of "Yankee", which comes from "Yankee Doodle", which is a term for a rustic American that the English used for the colonists who tried to "ape their betters" by trying to dress up by simply sticking feathers into their hats. The insouciant colonists mocked their mockers by taking up the satiric verse and melody as a theme song. ;)
The definition of "yank" varies depending on where your at. Thru my travels it appears that to most europeans, a yank is any American. Over here however that changes. If your from south of the Mason/Dixon line, a yank is any one from north of the line, a Damn Yankee is one who won't go home. If your from north of the M/D line, yank refers to a New Englander. With the exception of the baseball team, New Yorkers do not call themselves yankees. If your from New England, a Yankee is someone who's been here for generations, as in 'Connecticut Yankee' or 'Downeast Yankee'. But that's not what this thread is about, is it? I believe it was correctly pointed out earlier, that the reason we go to bed early is because we work to damn much.
Jeff, Europe is not that homogenous a place. In South Wales, people eat by about 7-8 pm at the latest (This is just a prejudiced view based on observation of the time pubs are busiest serving food in the Aberdare area, which I've generously expanded to cover the whole of South Wales).
Whereas in Madrid, if you go to a restaurant before 11pm, the place will be empty of all apart from American tourists. C'est La Vie...
In keeping with ottery's wisdom, ie Europe not being as homogeneous as some Americans may think....we're not the U.S.of E. yet, though I'm sure Tony Blair wants to be its first president...people in the various 'member states' start and finish work at different times. I don't know if you could obtain an Average, or Mean, value, but the Standard Error would be huge. And how big a sample size would you have to take to reduce the Coefficient of Error.
...Because even in the UK, it's accepted that manual workers and tradesmen, ie carpenters, electricians, plumbers etc. start at 8.00am, but often earlier. Many people work funny shifts, like nurses and midwives. Your office wimps, like me these days, don't start till 9.00am. Then again, many post-docs I work with don't start till 9.30-10.00, but work on till well past pub *opening* hours! - how sad.
They keep on telling us on the telly that the British work the longest hours in Europe, and the Germans work the least - but the Germans are more productive. I suspect if you go to a different European country, their telly would tell you a different story. Americans work slightly longer hours and are a bit more productive.
I believe our mainland European counterparts start in general a good deal earlier, but have a couple of hours off in the middle of the day - maybe that no longer applies.
Me personally, if they paid me to stay away from the place it might be better value. All I do is sit about and make a mess and get on folks' nerves. At least that's what I keep telling them - they haven't fallen for it yet though...damn...
Uh huh, Danny. *grin* (How's your friend doing? Feel free to ignore that if you don't want to talk about it.) My ex-fiance worked in England for a while as a contractor. He'd get in at 8. His co-workers rolled in around 9 or 10. They'd go to lunch at their local. He'd go back to work. Maybe they'd come back from the pub, maybe they wouldn't. At one point they told him (sort of joking) that he was making them look bad with the higherups, so stay longer at the pub, would he? I'm guessing this is an extreme.
Zina - I missed the notice about the Louisville session. Um where was it. I checked the SCTLS site?? It is a bit of a drive for me but you never know when I might show up on yer end of town. I've thought that I would have to get a good early start to make the one that starts at noon. Yep - I can just see me showing up all bright eyed just as everyones packing it up to leave. But the one that starts at 2p and goes till 5p might be a little more doable for me
Oh and thanks on the interesting note bout The Yankee Doodle tune. (But why'd he call it macaroni) - " Stuck a feather in his hat and called it macaroni" (?) Oh well.
Yes Zina, they were the good old days. Down the pub for a couple of pints every lunchtime. Down the pub for several every Friday, and never much work done on a Friday afternoon. And if there was a birthday, or someone was leaving ... well ....
But sadly it's not like that any more.
Ehh? I must've missed out... no that's a lie. But I never did like or do too much lunchtime drinking. Made up for it in the evening, though..
There used to be a session on in Dublin on Wednesday afternoons! - cos that was the day people got their giros. Some mates of mine used to go. Might still be going, for all I know....
"Macaroni" was once a descriptive for the flourishes of a dandy, called by satirists and eventually themselves Macaroni's (I assume after the fancy pasta), swells in the 1700's or so who loved to add furbelows and ruffles and feathers and other decoration to their clothing. The lyrics of Yankee Doodle describe a rustic in the big city who thinks he's fascinating to women even though he rides a pony rather than a horse, aping his betters and not knowing enough to know that putting a feather in your hat didn't make you a dandy.
Trivia, my mind is stuffed with it. The things you discover as a theatre costumer...
The British troops used to mock the colonists and their ambitions by playing Yankee Doodle at them. As the war went on, the Americans began taunting them by playing Yankee Doodle back at them. They eventually unofficially adopted the tune as a musical symbol of defiance.
The term "yankee" originally meant a yahoo or rustic, from what I understand, and someone with an OED and some time on their hands can give us the etymology of the original term, I'm sure. I don't know where Yankee Doodle (the tune itself) originated, though I could probably find out somewhere if I had more time. Probably it's one of the satirical broadside songs.
Are you not on the Boulder session Yahoo list, Deb? Bruce Joss wrote a note about the pavilion opening to performers on it, I think it was yesterday or the day before.
Ottery, so the office to pub circuit is a casualty of the tech flop? I wondered how they managed.
The lessening inebriation of our workforce isn't the result of the tech flop, if by that you mean the downturn in the IT 'Industry' - it started earlier, with the expension of all that, and the importing of American-style ideas into British business/industry. And it's got a lot to do with the changing of attitudes to work as the Unions were emasculated under Thatcher (You might rightly gather that I am one of that generation and political persuasion that still blames all the ills of the world - plague, Spanish Inquisition, extinction of the Dinosaurs, you name it - on 'That Woman')!!!
I'm led to believe that the so called War of Independence was in effect a civil war, a bloody one at that, and most of the fighting was done by Americans against Americans, one side loyalist, the other side republican (now where have I heard those expressions before?....) and that the British garrison was relatively small, playing lesser role than is historically recorded.
I better run a mile now, having opened the floodgates to torrents of abuse from my Stateside colleagues....see ya!.............
"I'm led to believe that the so called War of Independence was in effect a civil war, a bloody one at that, and most of the fighting was done by Americans against Americans, one side loyalist, the other side republican (now where have I heard those expressions before?....) and that the British garrison was relatively small, playing lesser role than is historically recorded."
Just an observation: I think it might be more accurate to say that the British government, in keeping with their general policy of empire worldwide, were smart and economical, and got most of the fighting done by hired and/or auxiliary troops. This was the pattern in India, East and West Africa, Ireland, Scotland, and the American Colonies. English officer corps, "native" troopers. It was cheap and worked well--the defeat of the English in the Americas was more related to economics, bad generalship, and the opportunistic intervention of the French.
Ob-on-topic:
A very positive outgrowth of this intermingling of English officer core and native troopers was the exchange of cultural ideas including music. That's how the harmonium and violin came into East Indian music and how Continental quadrilles became Irish dance-sets.
Well, down here you definitely do not want to be called a Yankee, even if you technically are one. I've lived in the South for about 85% of my life, but since I was born in New Jersey I'll always technically be a Yankee. I dropped that accent very quickly in grammar school. Generally, you're called a Yankee if you're from the north and you're (according to Southern code of conduct) obnoxious and rude. There are unwritten rules of conduct in the South and if you don't know them you very well may come across as a Yankee.
It's usually coupled with an expletive. You're not likely to hear it seriously used in larger cities because of the mass migration of Yankees to Southern cities, but in the rural South it's still very much a term of derision. Usually it's used behind someone's back, as is the custom for insults in the South.
A typical example of its use (including exaggeration, generalization and flagrant stereotyping of the Southern woman):
Woman A: Ohhhh, how ahhh you deya? It is soo good to see yooo!
Woman B(yankee): Yeh. Youse too. Gotta go. Cya.
Woman A to Woman C: F*$#ing B#$ch! And did you see her shoes? My gawd. That just isn't done. Well...yankees.
The expression is perhaps most commonly used whilst in traffic, however. Even I, who don't really consider myself Southern, often use the phrase during tourist season when a "F&*$ing yankee" from New York or, more likely, Florida (yankees retire to Florida and then come up here during the summer...they're called Floridiots) cuts me off in traffic.
The South is still a separate country. The rest of the world just doesn't realize it.
Oh, and I too hate the American work ethic. Debt is the real enemy. It keeps us chained to our desks. We purchase with the assumption that we'll always have secure jobs that we like. There's no room for flexibility and we have to do what "they" tell us because we have to work full-time jobs to keep up with our payments. It could be much, much, much worse. But it could also be much better. The first step is realizing that you don't have to live that life. To hell with begrudgers.
Coyote - I take your points. May I also add that the situation might never have arisen had the British crown and government at the time been so blinkered to the demands of the colonists not to be taxed so heavily. Just imagine - you guys might still be a British colony!!
Ok, sorry guys - I've ruffled enough feathers now - even while talking about something I disagree about, ie colonialism.
Anyway. Try playing Yankee Doodle as a polka, then follow it with, maybe, Johnny I Do Miss You. Works quite nicely.
During our bicentennial celebrations in 1976, I remember the English ambassadour's opening remarks to his congratulatory speech, which was something like, "We've largely given up hope of getting the colony back..."
Zina, I've looked up "Yankee" in my Webster and Collins dictionaries. They are both agreed that "Yankee" may be derived from 18c Dutch "Kan Kees" (meaning "John Cheese") applied derisively by Dutch settlers in New York to English settlers in Connecticut. Another possibility offered by Webster is that it may be an American Indian corruption of "English". Doubtless there are other explanations around, and we'll probably never know for sure.
Trevor
Some people are imaginative or creative and come up with a business where they are there own boss but the average person has a job where they just about OWN you 24/7.
I spent my youth working 75 hours and week, on call, all night and backwards to everyone else’s days off.
Even without debt - Try to find a job that allows time for hobby’s, family’s etc. instead of just two stinking weeks out of the year for vacation time with enough pay to put a roof over your head.
I look at people around me and they are tired from work. A lot of people wish ¾ of their life away – for it to get to the weekend. They don’t know how to enjoy life when they do have time off. What’s retirement these days 72? 65? I can’t even imagine trying to work a full time job at that age. Or you end up having a stroke at 62 like my Aunt. I’m ready for a job outside of the rat race for sure. Maybe we should have another revolution eh?
Well, I for one wouldn't like to have anyone telling ME what I have to focus on and not focus on, so I'm not going to go telling anyone else what to do with their priorities! But easy for me to talk -- I work part-time for a photographer, work my own business part-time making Irish stepdancing dresses, and teach for a stepdancing school the rest of the time. My husband currently pays most of our bills, but then he spends most of our money (only fair). I have almost no money on my own, and don't generally spend too much if it's not there (mainly because I know it probably never will be, with my earning habits!).
Thanks Zina! I'm all signed up now. I simply must be on all the lists.
RE: Yankee Doodle: It's funny how you learn these songs as a kid and never really know what they mean. I'm amused with new knowledge.
RE work: I don't like anyone telling me what to focus on either and I haven't found something that can get paid for that I like doing and don't get bored with. Maybe that's why I've had more careers than you can shake a stick at. Ha. Seems like I always end up kind of the rebelious type and never fit in. One time I got called in for being 8 seconds late. I told the manager he could stick those 8 seconds up his arse. But it is a matter of priority. I've been trying to find something that I can work hard at and have a better quaility of life too. Wish me luck - sigh
Benjamin Franklin coined the phrase "Early to bed and early to rise, makes a man healthy wealthy and wise." I for one believe that to be true.
People with children generally go to bed sooner than those who do not. Also people in small towns generally hit the sack earlier as everything closes by 8:00 P.M. I was doing center pivot evaluations in a small town in Utah and the only radio station that we could pick up (AM or FM) went off the air at 8:00.
The American work ethic is likely rooted in the fact that all Americans are descendants from immigrants who have come here from desperate circumstances (like potato famines) to make better lives for themselves and who had to work very hard to do it.
Good grief - I see the implication here is that us Irish are a shower of lazy bastards because we dont go to bed early??
We work - but only as a means to an end. The end being to enjoy yourself and the good things in life. I'm not saying that we dont have a materialist side but I suspect that it's less well developed than that in the US.
I have four young kids ranging from 3 to 15 years and that doesn't stop me from having a bloody good session once or twice a week. Indeed we often have sessions in the house that go on to well past the dawn and the kids get to stay up to midnight to join in or listen.
Our Friday/Saturday sessions here generally kick off around 8.30 - 9.30 and go on to 2 or 3 in the morning, sometimes heading back to someone's house to get a few more sets in before crashing.
Sunday is a bit more civilised with a 5 o'clock start and a 9.00 finish [though this can sometimes be extended to around midnight if the fancy takes us].
Weekday sessions will usually finish between 11 and 1.
The excuse 'I'm too tired' seems a lame one to me as I find that if I am tired and irritable the best tonic in the world is a few tunes in the company of friends with a whiskey and a beer in hand!
It's an interesting cultural question, isn't it? In most countries, if you are laid off or fired or otherwise unemployed, I'm told that regardless of the hardships that might impose, that a citizen of Canada, Australia or Ireland will never want for medical care, food and shelter. They know they will be taken care of.
On the other hand, the American who has lost his paycheck is at far greater risk than other citizens of the civilized world. No job? No Money! No Insurance! No House! Unemployment benefits will run out in a scant 6 weeks, and there is nowhere to turn when that runs out.
Every American runs a very serious risk of becoming homeless on the streets, but that doesn't prevent us from buying another Starbucks Latte on our nearly maxed out credit cards. Furthermore, our limited and pathetic welfare system of the past has been scaled back to a former shadow of itself.
So, if anyone wonders and marvels and the American work ethic, consider this. Do Americans work so hard because they are morally superior to the rest of the world or are they are working so hard because they are scared as hell.
I...I...am *totally* dumbfounded as to why youse Americans continue to live in your country if all youse're gonna do is give out about it. Yeah, yeah, I know I'm always on about Tony Blair, etc., the PEL bill, and sh*t, but I DON'T complain about being worked into the ground, and how work- and materialism- oriented my life is...
If yer gonna moan about it why don't you DO something about it eg help in the reintroduction of democracy...too late for that?
So are we gonna see a mass exodus of free thinkers? Where did that happen before in recent so-called free western capitalist history?
hints: it was in the 3rd decade of the last century.
the country's name began with G ....
...and ended with: ermany.
Although there is a theory that both European civil wars (1914-1918, then 1939-1945) were exacerbated, or rather, engineered, by the USA, who, by remaining isolationist, till the European powers had shagged themselves out, when the time was ripe went in to pick up the spoils of war....
...don't ask me, just some gossip I heard while reading up some history, as you do, I don't know, I'm just a dumb flute player/lab geezer......
That smacks too much of conspiracy theories, Daniel, and having had lots of family in the government, I cannot believe that they can get themselves together enough to get a conspiracy of that size and nature together without it getting leaked one way or another.
Personally, as a first generation American, I totally dig this place. Sure, it's got it's problems, but so does everywhere else.
Besides, since I work largely for myself, if I work myself into the ground, whose fault is that?
Emily, let's hope that's true - after the Lunasa gig when Kevin C came over to myself and Aidan, he asked where would a local session be happening. We told him the Duke, gave him directions, then made our own way down there ourselves. When we arrived, there was Perry Como and Frank Sinatra crap blaring away. When I asked if it would be ok if we played some tunes, herself behind the bar pulled a long face and muttered "I'll have to ask". I said there may be some famous musicians turning up, which was met by nonchalance. For the duration of my stay, one drinks worth, say 20-odd minutes, no attempt was made to accomodate us. I then left and Aidan did shortly after me. To the best of my knowledge the lads did not turn up, thank god. What an embarassment if they had done.
I sent them an email explaining the crack, just to cover myself.
As an epilogue, I haven't been back to the pub, feeling somewhat jaundiced after the above.
Yeah I don't think they actually made it, but still he spoke highly of you. I think he was more stunned I actually knew you and/or about the gig. Was a cool moment!
Why do Yanks go to bed so early?
Why do Yanks go to bed so early?
So, one thing I've noticed while jaunting about the globe...Americans generally tend to eat dinner rather early compared to everywhere else, anywhere from 5 to 8 or so. In Paris, they thought we were weird for coming in for dinner at about 7:30 or 8, in London we were often the only people in the restaurants at 8 and people were just coming in as we left. Or is it just big cities?
Same thing with sessions -- oftentimes just as I'm getting warmed up at around 10:30 or so, people are starting to leave, citing work, tiredness, whatever, having started at around 7 or so, whereas in Ireland I noted that sessions often went til after hours as a matter of course, after starting as late as 9...
What's up with that? Theories? Explanations?
On the other hand, maybe we're catching up (going later) -- it's only just gone about twenty past 9 and we're just now starting to think about dinner...
Zina
# Posted on June 21st 2003 by Zina Lee
Re: Why do Yanks go to bed so early?
I'm like you Zina everyone fades off just when I'm getting my second wind. I also think we Yanks work too blasted much. I think we should enjoy life more and work less
The sessions in Ireland must go into the wee hours starting that late. Don't the have to close down at a certain time - like last call or something? I'm getting excited about my trip - Only 9 days to go before I leave !!!***!!! 
# Posted on June 21st 2003 by deblittle
Re: Why do Yanks go to bed so early?
It's just simply cultural differences. I am currently residing in central Pennsylvania, which is a fairly conservative area. I work from 3pm to 8pm six days a week, and by the time I come home bars here are empty by 11pm on a Saturday night because people get up early on Sunday mornings for church. That's just the way things are here.
It's different in Philadelphia (where I gig a lot) and Boston (where I go to college) because there are lots more people from different cultural backgrounds in those larger cities. So of course the sessions kick up after 10.30pm and pubs are full until close even on a Saturday night.
Is there a lot of cultural or racial diversity where you live? I have lived in Ireland and several other European countries, traveled extensively throughout Europe and North America and lived in lots of different cities up and down the East coast. There are definitely distinct differences between the people from city to city, but in general American and European culture is very, very different. European culture (I'm including England and Ireland here too) is a lot more laid-back and relaxed, they tend to take more time out to enjoy their friends and families, set aside time for socializing and pursuing hobbies and cultural activities such as music/sessions, art, theatre, that sort of thing. Europeans work hard and play hard. Americans work too hard and don't spend enough time playing hard. Our culture is very much centered around the belief that success=monetary wealth. I don't think American people in general do not take enough time to enjoy life.
Please don't jump on me for saying any of this! I don't think that many of my comments apply to the majority of people who are into playing Irish music, because I find that those people are more in tune with the European take on life. However, after traveling/living in all of those different places, these are just the observations I've noted.
Cara
# Posted on June 21st 2003 by carafiddle
***OOps, the first paragraph should read.....
"by the time I come home from work at 8.30pm, my family is in bed asleep!...."
# Posted on June 21st 2003 by carafiddle
Re: Why do Yanks go to bed so early?
I've noticed in the bigger American cities the sessions go on til the cock crows. I remember one session that went til 8am. I hadn't a clue till I stepped outside & checked my watch.
This is the exception not the rule though, most sessions across the US probably go til around 11 on average. It's due to the the fact that everybody needs pay off their ridiculous debts they've caused themselves along the road to keeping up with the Jones's. Does anybody really need a 72" TV or an SUV? It's all because the average American can't tell the difference between their wants & their needs.
# Posted on June 21st 2003 by Mad Baloney
Re: Why do Yanks go to bed so early?
In the UK the pubs close at around 11pm so generally a session would finish about then...unless the landlord closes the curtains to the outside world
Quite a usual occurence in the past but a rare thing these days.... at least in my neck of the woods.
Dave.
# Posted on June 21st 2003 by Twiz
Re: Why do Yanks go to bed so early?
Where are the sessions that start as early as 9.00pm most round here don't start until after 10.00pm and some between 11.00pm and 11.30pm. Perhaps your'e thinking of the tourist areas .. Doolin maybe ?
# Posted on June 21st 2003 by Bernie
Re: Why do Yanks go to bed so early?
Dave, that old custom still happens occasionally in my area
Trevor
# Posted on June 21st 2003 by lazyhound
Re: Why do Yanks go to bed so early?
You're from Ireland, then Bernie, I take it. I've noticed that about Ireland - if you turned up at 9.00pm you'd be on your own for an hour!
Another observation is that here in London, weekday sessions tend to start at 9.30, maybe even 10.00, whereas Sunday sessions it's 9.00! Pubs are supposed to close at 11.00 on weekdays and 10.30 on a Sunday, hence the half hour forward.
The reality is that, for the sessions I go to anyway, the pubs tend to finish much later, so the 9.00pm on Sunday practice is rather vestigial.
Another thing, related to this - if you are under 14, but would like to go to a night-time session, what would you do? Or if you had kid(s) of that age and wanted to take them to a sesh, legally you're banjaxed. In practice, from my experience, it hasn't happened - except once - that was Sandy Bell's in Edinburgh - I think they don't allow children full stop, as it's so smoky. The time I attempted to gain entry to there with my girl Roisin it was mid afternoon!
That sure is a great way to ensure The Music is passed on to the next generation!
Danny.
# Posted on June 21st 2003 by Key Maniac Lad
Re: Why do Yanks go to bed so early?
I'm irish and have never played in a pub session that has started before 10pm. That's an early start for most sessions here. When we get the call for last orders we buy five or six drinks to keep us going for another while!!!
Carrie*
# Posted on June 21st 2003 by carrie
Re: Why do Yanks go to bed so early?
Yes danny Co Clare (East) Kids are allowed in pubs here but there is talk of them not being allowed in after 8 or 9pm. We do get a lot of tellented kids in the sessions during the school holidays and it will be disasterous if they are not allowed in any more, the sessions are great training grounds for them. Personally I can't see anything wrong with kids in pubs if they are accomapnied by a parent (or in my case their Grandad). The new liquor laws will probably kill the sessions and tourism along with it if they are passed AND implemented by the gardae (there's some doubt about that) and of course upheld by the courts. As one might expect there is tremendous opposition from the publicans.
# Posted on June 21st 2003 by Bernie
Re: Why do Yanks go to bed so early?
That would be sad. You guys should start some kinda petition to make exceptions for kids in sessions.
But at least they won't be able to use smoky atmosphere as an excuse for not letting kids in.
(sorry for hijacking this a bit, Zina!)
Danny.
# Posted on June 21st 2003 by Key Maniac Lad
Re: Why do Yanks go to bed so early?
Btw, I rarely get to bed before 2am (I'm a natural night owl), which is why I frequently pick up evening postings from the US on this site.
Trevor
# Posted on June 21st 2003 by lazyhound
Re: Why do Yanks go to bed so early?
I definitely agree with Cara--our culture (U.S.) is centered around the beleif that success=monetary wealth, and also with Brad, that many people can't tell their material needs from wants. But my husband is a baker--he's up by 3:30 on average when he has to work. sometimes as early as 2:00. So now I am on his schedule in a modified way. Before I was married I could stay up much later--now we are the ones leaving the session by 11:00 (He says it's good to leave at the height of the "party" before things get sloppy!). So now, if I sleep til 6:30 on a day I am off from work, that's late!
# Posted on June 21st 2003 by Andee
Re: Why do Yanks go to bed so early?
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I am a Yank from upstate NY,
To be perfectly honest i don't understand the average Yank myself!!! I know I work too much, most days I get up at 5:30am and don't get home 6 p.m. at least five days a week (I manage an ICU at a small hospital)...I end up being on call for the remander of the week...I have to schedule my time off for sessions...literally!! My wife and daughter are usually in bed at 8pm the latest my wife will go to bed is 9:30pm. Most nights I take my fiddle downstairs and play until 1-2 n the morning (I am usually tired out the next morning..nothing coffee can't fix.) The way I figure it I am just gonna die young!!
Last year I spent some time working further north and on my time off I wandered into Canada where they werejust warming up a little past mid-night...And still going by 4 a.m.!!! I couldn't believe it!! Here the sessions end early, if they run late they are getting over by 10 pm... Now I would play intil my arms fell off..I don't understand people!!! (I know if I started hosting seeions in my home I would get kicked out by the end of the week...or whipped as per usual!!) I know...pathetic aren't I...
# Posted on June 22nd 2003 by Tim_Fiddler
Re: Why do Yanks go to bed so early?
You know, I hadn't thought of that whole gimme-gimme thing having an impact on why Americans go to bed early. My husband spends a lot of our discretionary money on toys (we don't have kids), and we have a large TV (incredible speakers, Martin-Logan's) and even an SUV. I spend a lot of time making fun of him for it ("but honey, I don't *need* a new computer...or is this just an excuse to buy yourself a new video card?"), but i don't really mind too much, as I know he can live without them when he has to.
He used to be a club and radio dj, so we used to be up til 3 or 4 am as a matter of course most nights, usually out running around wondering why everyone else was in bed already.
These days we're in bed by midnight and feel like that's a necessary thing. Of course, we're not getting any younger, although we haven't hit that point yet where we need less sleep to get by again.
Still, if I'm at a session, closing time seems to come far too early. Deb, did you see the notice about a possible session up in Louisville at that outdoor plaza? Maybe that one can go later, I don't think there's any houses round there... long way for you to come for music, but what the heck...!
zls
# Posted on June 22nd 2003 by Zina Lee
P.S.
Cara, no, Denver isn't what I'd call an international sort of place. It's better now than it was, but I'm from SF originally, and Denver's still pretty homogenized by comparison. When I first came here, I was one of the few Asians in the city -- there's a Asian Pacific foundation that I volunteered at for while, and we joked that it was weird to be around so many Asians again whenever we got together...
Going back to SF to visit family is like going to Europe, of course. My European friends all say it's the American city most like Europe...
zls
# Posted on June 22nd 2003 by Zina Lee
Re: Why do Yanks go to bed so early?
Wow! You yanks (isn't that a term for northern people? or am I talking civil war?) - I don't know how you've any time left after working, for playing/practicing tunes, doing things with the family, DIY, hitting this & other websites, doing sport, reading, watching telly, or just general chilling out with friends and neighbours in the garden. Work is a means to those several ends cited for me. Trouble is, I quite like work as well cause we get to help discover stuff...
Danny.
# Posted on June 22nd 2003 by Key Maniac Lad
Re: Why do Yanks go to bed so early?
It's that demm Puritan work ethic, Danny. (Just kidding.) For me, my chilling out time is sneaking online and mouthing off at The Session!
zls
# Posted on June 22nd 2003 by Zina Lee
P.S.
"Yanks" is a derivative of "Yankee", which comes from "Yankee Doodle", which is a term for a rustic American that the English used for the colonists who tried to "ape their betters" by trying to dress up by simply sticking feathers into their hats. The insouciant colonists mocked their mockers by taking up the satiric verse and melody as a theme song. ;)
zls
# Posted on June 22nd 2003 by Zina Lee
Re: Why do Yanks go to bed so early?
The definition of "yank" varies depending on where your at. Thru my travels it appears that to most europeans, a yank is any American. Over here however that changes. If your from south of the Mason/Dixon line, a yank is any one from north of the line, a Damn Yankee is one who won't go home. If your from north of the M/D line, yank refers to a New Englander. With the exception of the baseball team, New Yorkers do not call themselves yankees. If your from New England, a Yankee is someone who's been here for generations, as in 'Connecticut Yankee' or 'Downeast Yankee'. But that's not what this thread is about, is it? I believe it was correctly pointed out earlier, that the reason we go to bed early is because we work to damn much.
# Posted on June 22nd 2003 by fife
Re: Why do Yanks go to bed so early?
I'd be interested to know at what time does the average work day start in Europe? And how long does it last?
Maybe we Yanks just start earlier and/or work longer hours. I dunno, anyone?
Jeff
# Posted on June 22nd 2003 by anima
Re: Why do Yanks go to bed so early?
Jeff, Europe is not that homogenous a place. In South Wales, people eat by about 7-8 pm at the latest (This is just a prejudiced view based on observation of the time pubs are busiest serving food in the Aberdare area, which I've generously expanded to cover the whole of South Wales).
Whereas in Madrid, if you go to a restaurant before 11pm, the place will be empty of all apart from American tourists. C'est La Vie...
# Posted on June 22nd 2003 by Ottery
Re: Why do Yanks go to bed so early?
In keeping with ottery's wisdom, ie Europe not being as homogeneous as some Americans may think....we're not the U.S.of E. yet, though I'm sure Tony Blair wants to be its first president...people in the various 'member states' start and finish work at different times. I don't know if you could obtain an Average, or Mean, value, but the Standard Error would be huge. And how big a sample size would you have to take to reduce the Coefficient of Error.
...Because even in the UK, it's accepted that manual workers and tradesmen, ie carpenters, electricians, plumbers etc. start at 8.00am, but often earlier. Many people work funny shifts, like nurses and midwives. Your office wimps, like me these days, don't start till 9.00am. Then again, many post-docs I work with don't start till 9.30-10.00, but work on till well past pub *opening* hours! - how sad.
They keep on telling us on the telly that the British work the longest hours in Europe, and the Germans work the least - but the Germans are more productive. I suspect if you go to a different European country, their telly would tell you a different story. Americans work slightly longer hours and are a bit more productive.
I believe our mainland European counterparts start in general a good deal earlier, but have a couple of hours off in the middle of the day - maybe that no longer applies.
Me personally, if they paid me to stay away from the place it might be better value. All I do is sit about and make a mess and get on folks' nerves. At least that's what I keep telling them - they haven't fallen for it yet though...damn...
Danny.
# Posted on June 22nd 2003 by Key Maniac Lad
Re: Why do Yanks go to bed so early?
Uh huh, Danny. *grin* (How's your friend doing? Feel free to ignore that if you don't want to talk about it.) My ex-fiance worked in England for a while as a contractor. He'd get in at 8. His co-workers rolled in around 9 or 10. They'd go to lunch at their local. He'd go back to work. Maybe they'd come back from the pub, maybe they wouldn't. At one point they told him (sort of joking) that he was making them look bad with the higherups, so stay longer at the pub, would he? I'm guessing this is an extreme.
zls
# Posted on June 22nd 2003 by Zina Lee
Re: Why do Yanks go to bed so early?
Zina - I missed the notice about the Louisville session. Um where was it. I checked the SCTLS site?? It is a bit of a drive for me but you never know when I might show up on yer end of town. I've thought that I would have to get a good early start to make the one that starts at noon. Yep - I can just see me showing up all bright eyed just as everyones packing it up to leave. But the one that starts at 2p and goes till 5p might be a little more doable for me
Oh and thanks on the interesting note bout The Yankee Doodle tune. (But why'd he call it macaroni) - " Stuck a feather in his hat and called it macaroni" (?) Oh well.
Deb
.
# Posted on June 22nd 2003 by deblittle
Re: Why do Yanks go to bed so early?
Yes Zina, they were the good old days. Down the pub for a couple of pints every lunchtime. Down the pub for several every Friday, and never much work done on a Friday afternoon. And if there was a birthday, or someone was leaving ... well ....
But sadly it's not like that any more.
# Posted on June 22nd 2003 by Ottery
Re: Why do Yanks go to bed so early?
Ehh? I must've missed out... no that's a lie. But I never did like or do too much lunchtime drinking. Made up for it in the evening, though..
There used to be a session on in Dublin on Wednesday afternoons! - cos that was the day people got their giros. Some mates of mine used to go. Might still be going, for all I know....
Danny.
# Posted on June 22nd 2003 by Key Maniac Lad
Re: Why do Yanks go to bed so early?
"Macaroni" was once a descriptive for the flourishes of a dandy, called by satirists and eventually themselves Macaroni's (I assume after the fancy pasta), swells in the 1700's or so who loved to add furbelows and ruffles and feathers and other decoration to their clothing. The lyrics of Yankee Doodle describe a rustic in the big city who thinks he's fascinating to women even though he rides a pony rather than a horse, aping his betters and not knowing enough to know that putting a feather in your hat didn't make you a dandy.
Trivia, my mind is stuffed with it. The things you discover as a theatre costumer...
The British troops used to mock the colonists and their ambitions by playing Yankee Doodle at them. As the war went on, the Americans began taunting them by playing Yankee Doodle back at them. They eventually unofficially adopted the tune as a musical symbol of defiance.
The term "yankee" originally meant a yahoo or rustic, from what I understand, and someone with an OED and some time on their hands can give us the etymology of the original term, I'm sure. I don't know where Yankee Doodle (the tune itself) originated, though I could probably find out somewhere if I had more time. Probably it's one of the satirical broadside songs.
Are you not on the Boulder session Yahoo list, Deb? Bruce Joss wrote a note about the pavilion opening to performers on it, I think it was yesterday or the day before.
Ottery, so the office to pub circuit is a casualty of the tech flop? I wondered how they managed.
zls
# Posted on June 23rd 2003 by Zina Lee
Re: Why do Yanks go to bed so early?
It's our insane protestant work ethic.
Personally, I detest it, it drives too many of us to early graves and makes us miserable in the process.
Sure we have all manner of expensive trinkets but that's all they are.
# Posted on June 23rd 2003 by Hanley
Re: Why do Yanks go to bed so early?
The lessening inebriation of our workforce isn't the result of the tech flop, if by that you mean the downturn in the IT 'Industry' - it started earlier, with the expension of all that, and the importing of American-style ideas into British business/industry. And it's got a lot to do with the changing of attitudes to work as the Unions were emasculated under Thatcher (You might rightly gather that I am one of that generation and political persuasion that still blames all the ills of the world - plague, Spanish Inquisition, extinction of the Dinosaurs, you name it - on 'That Woman')!!!
# Posted on June 23rd 2003 by Ottery
Re: Why do Yanks go to bed so early?
I'm led to believe that the so called War of Independence was in effect a civil war, a bloody one at that, and most of the fighting was done by Americans against Americans, one side loyalist, the other side republican (now where have I heard those expressions before?....) and that the British garrison was relatively small, playing lesser role than is historically recorded.
I better run a mile now, having opened the floodgates to torrents of abuse from my Stateside colleagues....see ya!.............
..........
Danny
# Posted on June 23rd 2003 by Key Maniac Lad
Re: Why do Yanks go to bed so early?
Danny wrote:
"I'm led to believe that the so called War of Independence was in effect a civil war, a bloody one at that, and most of the fighting was done by Americans against Americans, one side loyalist, the other side republican (now where have I heard those expressions before?....) and that the British garrison was relatively small, playing lesser role than is historically recorded."
Just an observation: I think it might be more accurate to say that the British government, in keeping with their general policy of empire worldwide, were smart and economical, and got most of the fighting done by hired and/or auxiliary troops. This was the pattern in India, East and West Africa, Ireland, Scotland, and the American Colonies. English officer corps, "native" troopers. It was cheap and worked well--the defeat of the English in the Americas was more related to economics, bad generalship, and the opportunistic intervention of the French.
Ob-on-topic:
A very positive outgrowth of this intermingling of English officer core and native troopers was the exchange of cultural ideas including music. That's how the harmonium and violin came into East Indian music and how Continental quadrilles became Irish dance-sets.
chris smith
# Posted on June 23rd 2003 by coyotebanjo
Re: Why do Yanks go to bed so early?
I bet Alaskans never go to bed.
# Posted on June 23rd 2003 by granama
Re: Why do Yanks go to bed so early?
Well, down here you definitely do not want to be called a Yankee, even if you technically are one. I've lived in the South for about 85% of my life, but since I was born in New Jersey I'll always technically be a Yankee. I dropped that accent very quickly in grammar school. Generally, you're called a Yankee if you're from the north and you're (according to Southern code of conduct) obnoxious and rude. There are unwritten rules of conduct in the South and if you don't know them you very well may come across as a Yankee.
It's usually coupled with an expletive. You're not likely to hear it seriously used in larger cities because of the mass migration of Yankees to Southern cities, but in the rural South it's still very much a term of derision. Usually it's used behind someone's back, as is the custom for insults in the South.
A typical example of its use (including exaggeration, generalization and flagrant stereotyping of the Southern woman):
Woman A: Ohhhh, how ahhh you deya? It is soo good to see yooo!
Woman B(yankee): Yeh. Youse too. Gotta go. Cya.
Woman A to Woman C: F*$#ing B#$ch! And did you see her shoes? My gawd. That just isn't done. Well...yankees.
The expression is perhaps most commonly used whilst in traffic, however. Even I, who don't really consider myself Southern, often use the phrase during tourist season when a "F&*$ing yankee" from New York or, more likely, Florida (yankees retire to Florida and then come up here during the summer...they're called Floridiots) cuts me off in traffic.
The South is still a separate country. The rest of the world just doesn't realize it.
Oh, and I too hate the American work ethic. Debt is the real enemy. It keeps us chained to our desks. We purchase with the assumption that we'll always have secure jobs that we like. There's no room for flexibility and we have to do what "they" tell us because we have to work full-time jobs to keep up with our payments. It could be much, much, much worse. But it could also be much better. The first step is realizing that you don't have to live that life. To hell with begrudgers.
# Posted on June 23rd 2003 by jerball
Re: Why do Yanks go to bed so early?
Coyote - I take your points. May I also add that the situation might never have arisen had the British crown and government at the time been so blinkered to the demands of the colonists not to be taxed so heavily. Just imagine - you guys might still be a British colony!!
Ok, sorry guys - I've ruffled enough feathers now - even while talking about something I disagree about, ie colonialism.
Anyway. Try playing Yankee Doodle as a polka, then follow it with, maybe, Johnny I Do Miss You. Works quite nicely.
Best,
Danny.
# Posted on June 23rd 2003 by Key Maniac Lad
Re: Why do Yanks go to bed so early?
During our bicentennial celebrations in 1976, I remember the English ambassadour's opening remarks to his congratulatory speech, which was something like, "We've largely given up hope of getting the colony back..."
# Posted on June 23rd 2003 by Zina Lee
Re: Why do Yanks go to bed so early?
Zina, I've looked up "Yankee" in my Webster and Collins dictionaries. They are both agreed that "Yankee" may be derived from 18c Dutch "Kan Kees" (meaning "John Cheese") applied derisively by Dutch settlers in New York to English settlers in Connecticut. Another possibility offered by Webster is that it may be an American Indian corruption of "English". Doubtless there are other explanations around, and we'll probably never know for sure.
Trevor
# Posted on June 23rd 2003 by lazyhound
Re: Why do Yanks go to bed so early?
Zina - I'm not on that list. Where do I sign up?
Some people are imaginative or creative and come up with a business where they are there own boss but the average person has a job where they just about OWN you 24/7.
I spent my youth working 75 hours and week, on call, all night and backwards to everyone else’s days off.
Even without debt - Try to find a job that allows time for hobby’s, family’s etc. instead of just two stinking weeks out of the year for vacation time with enough pay to put a roof over your head.
I look at people around me and they are tired from work. A lot of people wish ¾ of their life away – for it to get to the weekend. They don’t know how to enjoy life when they do have time off. What’s retirement these days 72? 65? I can’t even imagine trying to work a full time job at that age. Or you end up having a stroke at 62 like my Aunt. I’m ready for a job outside of the rat race for sure. Maybe we should have another revolution eh?
Deb
# Posted on June 23rd 2003 by deblittle
Re: Why do Yanks go to bed so early?
We don't have to go communist, but we definitely need to refocus our priorities.
# Posted on June 23rd 2003 by Hanley
Re: Why do Yanks go to bed so early?
Well, I for one wouldn't like to have anyone telling ME what I have to focus on and not focus on, so I'm not going to go telling anyone else what to do with their priorities!
But easy for me to talk -- I work part-time for a photographer, work my own business part-time making Irish stepdancing dresses, and teach for a stepdancing school the rest of the time. My husband currently pays most of our bills, but then he spends most of our money (only fair). I have almost no money on my own, and don't generally spend too much if it's not there (mainly because I know it probably never will be, with my earning habits!).
Deb: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/BoulderIrishSession/ .
zls
# Posted on June 23rd 2003 by Zina Lee
Re: Why do Yanks go to bed so early?
Thanks Zina! I'm all signed up now. I simply must be on all the lists.
RE: Yankee Doodle: It's funny how you learn these songs as a kid and never really know what they mean. I'm amused with new knowledge.
RE work: I don't like anyone telling me what to focus on either and I haven't found something that can get paid for that I like doing and don't get bored with. Maybe that's why I've had more careers than you can shake a stick at. Ha. Seems like I always end up kind of the rebelious type and never fit in. One time I got called in for being 8 seconds late. I told the manager he could stick those 8 seconds up his arse. But it is a matter of priority. I've been trying to find something that I can work hard at and have a better quaility of life too. Wish me luck - sigh
Deb
# Posted on June 23rd 2003 by deblittle
Re: Why do Yanks go to bed so early?
Benjamin Franklin coined the phrase "Early to bed and early to rise, makes a man healthy wealthy and wise." I for one believe that to be true.
People with children generally go to bed sooner than those who do not. Also people in small towns generally hit the sack earlier as everything closes by 8:00 P.M. I was doing center pivot evaluations in a small town in Utah and the only radio station that we could pick up (AM or FM) went off the air at 8:00.
The American work ethic is likely rooted in the fact that all Americans are descendants from immigrants who have come here from desperate circumstances (like potato famines) to make better lives for themselves and who had to work very hard to do it.
-Troy
# Posted on June 23rd 2003 by RTP
Re: Why do Yanks go to bed so early?
Good grief - I see the implication here is that us Irish are a shower of lazy bastards because we dont go to bed early??
We work - but only as a means to an end. The end being to enjoy yourself and the good things in life. I'm not saying that we dont have a materialist side but I suspect that it's less well developed than that in the US.
I have four young kids ranging from 3 to 15 years and that doesn't stop me from having a bloody good session once or twice a week. Indeed we often have sessions in the house that go on to well past the dawn and the kids get to stay up to midnight to join in or listen.
Our Friday/Saturday sessions here generally kick off around 8.30 - 9.30 and go on to 2 or 3 in the morning, sometimes heading back to someone's house to get a few more sets in before crashing.
Sunday is a bit more civilised with a 5 o'clock start and a 9.00 finish [though this can sometimes be extended to around midnight if the fancy takes us].
Weekday sessions will usually finish between 11 and 1.
The excuse 'I'm too tired' seems a lame one to me as I find that if I am tired and irritable the best tonic in the world is a few tunes in the company of friends with a whiskey and a beer in hand!
# Posted on June 24th 2003 by breandan
Re: Why do Yanks go to bed so early?
It's an interesting cultural question, isn't it? In most countries, if you are laid off or fired or otherwise unemployed, I'm told that regardless of the hardships that might impose, that a citizen of Canada, Australia or Ireland will never want for medical care, food and shelter. They know they will be taken care of.
On the other hand, the American who has lost his paycheck is at far greater risk than other citizens of the civilized world. No job? No Money! No Insurance! No House! Unemployment benefits will run out in a scant 6 weeks, and there is nowhere to turn when that runs out.
Every American runs a very serious risk of becoming homeless on the streets, but that doesn't prevent us from buying another Starbucks Latte on our nearly maxed out credit cards. Furthermore, our limited and pathetic welfare system of the past has been scaled back to a former shadow of itself.
So, if anyone wonders and marvels and the American work ethic, consider this. Do Americans work so hard because they are morally superior to the rest of the world or are they are working so hard because they are scared as hell.
I obviously have my opinions.
# Posted on June 24th 2003 by Caoimghgin
Re: Why do Yanks go to bed so early?
I never thought of it that way - but what a point to ponder.
Cara
# Posted on June 24th 2003 by carafiddle
Re: Why do Yanks go to bed so early?
I...I...am *totally* dumbfounded as to why youse Americans continue to live in your country if all youse're gonna do is give out about it. Yeah, yeah, I know I'm always on about Tony Blair, etc., the PEL bill, and sh*t, but I DON'T complain about being worked into the ground, and how work- and materialism- oriented my life is...
If yer gonna moan about it why don't you DO something about it eg help in the reintroduction of democracy...too late for that?
So are we gonna see a mass exodus of free thinkers? Where did that happen before in recent so-called free western capitalist history?
hints: it was in the 3rd decade of the last century.
the country's name began with G ....
...and ended with: ermany.
Although there is a theory that both European civil wars (1914-1918, then 1939-1945) were exacerbated, or rather, engineered, by the USA, who, by remaining isolationist, till the European powers had shagged themselves out, when the time was ripe went in to pick up the spoils of war....
...don't ask me, just some gossip I heard while reading up some history, as you do, I don't know, I'm just a dumb flute player/lab geezer......
Dano
# Posted on June 24th 2003 by Key Maniac Lad
Re: Why do Yanks go to bed so early?
Yeah but Kevin Crawford likes you.
# Posted on June 24th 2003 by emily_bmore
Re: Why do Yanks go to bed so early?
That smacks too much of conspiracy theories, Daniel, and having had lots of family in the government, I cannot believe that they can get themselves together enough to get a conspiracy of that size and nature together without it getting leaked one way or another.
Personally, as a first generation American, I totally dig this place. Sure, it's got it's problems, but so does everywhere else.
Besides, since I work largely for myself, if I work myself into the ground, whose fault is that?
zls
# Posted on June 24th 2003 by Zina Lee
Re: Why do Yanks go to bed so early?
Emily, let's hope that's true - after the Lunasa gig when Kevin C came over to myself and Aidan, he asked where would a local session be happening. We told him the Duke, gave him directions, then made our own way down there ourselves. When we arrived, there was Perry Como and Frank Sinatra crap blaring away. When I asked if it would be ok if we played some tunes, herself behind the bar pulled a long face and muttered "I'll have to ask". I said there may be some famous musicians turning up, which was met by nonchalance. For the duration of my stay, one drinks worth, say 20-odd minutes, no attempt was made to accomodate us. I then left and Aidan did shortly after me. To the best of my knowledge the lads did not turn up, thank god. What an embarassment if they had done.
I sent them an email explaining the crack, just to cover myself.
As an epilogue, I haven't been back to the pub, feeling somewhat jaundiced after the above.
Danny.
# Posted on June 25th 2003 by Key Maniac Lad
Re: Why do Yanks go to bed so early?
Yeah I don't think they actually made it, but still he spoke highly of you. I think he was more stunned I actually knew you and/or about the gig. Was a cool moment!
# Posted on June 25th 2003 by emily_bmore