A great many versions of this tune must be
about - I met an English 2 row player-
Paul Draper-Name ? He told me he knew of 6
different versions - and played another one
I never new- In portaferry Co,Down,in a
mudcat session = Great fun.
Here Is a version of this tune I got from
Gerry McCartney {Belfast} Many Moons Ago..
He plays a Tenor Banjo now, but then, he
Played a Banjo-mandolin,, And what a Player
of it,, http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=nBKEl1yQxVs
Dose anyone know any Information about this
Lovely Tune and Versions,,,,
jim,,,
I really like this tune. I have almost the exact version on the Chis Smith Coyotebanjo recording with Randal Bays....hmmm...somehow I don't see this recording in thesession database yet..
There is also a very nice version on the Angelina Carberry recording An Traidisiun Beo although it is slightly different.
Isn't it just called The Princess Royal and comes from the Carolan composition, being absorbed into the English tradition as a morris tune. There's two versions in the Michael Raven book listed as from Sherborne and Adderbury. There's a lot about it here (scroll down a bit to find it) http://www.ibiblio.org/fiddlers/PRIN_PY.htm and here: http://folkopedia.efdss.org/Princess_Royal
This is a great tune though. There's a nice version in Pete Cooper's English tune book, and you can read his notes on it here: http://www.petecooper.com/eftnotes.htm#83
I'd instinctively thought of Carolan making his music in some Yeatsian bubble of country chieftains, minstrels et cetera that might have extended to include going to Baroque concerts in Dublin but was unsullied by contact with Grub Street, the music biz and the real world as we know it. How stupid of me - of course there would have been publishers who knew good tunes when they were going around. I wonder how direct C's dealings with them might have been, and how far his tunes travelled in his lifetime or shortly afterwards.
Nice version of the tune Jim. I know several different versions myself, the O'Carolan one, and others from when I played for Morris dancing years ago before I moved to Ireland.Whether the O'Carolan or the Morris versions came first will probably never be certain.
ARETHUSA, THE. AKA and see "The Princess Royal." See also Oswald's "My Love is Lost to Me," which Bayard questions as to whether it is derivative of or ancestral to Carolan's tune. The song appeared in the opera The Lock and Key, acted in 1796, with words by Prince Hoare, music composed and selected by William Shield, and relates the engagement of the English frigate The Arethusa with a larger French warship, La Belle Poule, in the English Channel in June, 1778. Although often attributed to Shield, he himself only claimed to have added the bass. Irish writers have claimed that Turlough O'Carolan (1670-1738) composed the tune as "The Princess Royal," in honor of a daughter of Macdermott Roe. Kidson (Groves), however, maintains it was an English country dance from the early 18th century, dedicated to Anne, daughter of George II, who married the Prince of Orange in 1734.
Or this
According to the Canadian singer who related the song to Helen Creighton for her Songs and Ballads from Nova Scotia, this song is based on the true story of a ship carrying passengers between Halifax and Newfoundland. The song was found throughout England and was also popular in America.
The ballad was printed on numerous broadsides in England in the mid and late 1800s. Several of these can be found at the Bodleian Library. The ballad is listed in a Manuscript list of a Bristol printer (Collard) dated 1837. Vaughan Williams collected it, and it appeared in his Folk Songs from the Eastern Counties (1908).*
The dates and ports vary. In different versions the ship leaves on the fourteen or fifteenth of February, fourth of August, eighth of October, fourteenth of April, fourteenth of November and eighteenth of June. The ship sailed from the bay, from land and from Liverpool and was bound for various places including Cairo, the Rio Grande and New Orleans.
The song is sung to several tunes, this is an arrangement by Vaughan Williams. The first time I heard this song it was sung to the tune of Sweet Betsey from Pike.
There's a similar version on Verena Commins & Julie Langan's CD Fonnchaoi. Nice tune - according to dickens' comments under Rodney's Glory, http://www.thesession.org/tunes/display/3786
that tune is the set dance version of Princess Royal, but I've had a lot of coffee today so probably have impaired reading comprehension!
Jim
Matt Crantich has a nice...more 'simplified' version of this tune in The Irish Fiddle Book....set dance...called Rodney's Glory, i'llsend you an mp3 of it.
-michael
ps. he has some other nice set dances in the book/on the cd. he's a big man for them.
Nope, 'Celtic Folkweave' has never been reissued on CD and I've tried to track down the master tapes, but nobody in the record industry seems to know what happened to some of the albums recorded by the long-defunct Polydor label in Ireland.
lantern.http://www.soundlantern.com/UpdatedSoundPage.do?ToId=1255&Path=rodneysglory.mp3
RODNEY'S GLORY [1] (Gloire {Ui} Rodnaig). AKA and see "Irishman's Return from America," "My Name is Moll Mackey," "Praises of Limerick." Irish, Air and Long or Set Dance (2/4 time). A Aeolian/Mixolydian (O'Neill/1001, Welling): G Aeolian/Mixolydian (O'Neill/1915): A Dorian (Mitchell, Mulvihill, O'Neill/1850 & Krassen). Standard tuning. AABB. The tune is a set dance version of Turlough O'Carolan's air "Princess Royal [1]" or "Miss MacDermott." The title "Rodney's Glory," explains O'Sullivan (1983), was derived from verses by the poet Eoghain Rua Ó Súilleabháin in 1782, set to O’Carolan’s tune. The song commemorates a naval battle fought that year in which George Rodney (d. 1792), then vice-admiral of Great Britain, encountered a French fleet under Admiral Comte De Grasse. "The Battle of the Saints" or “Les Saintes” (named after Les Isles des Saintes, in the West Indies between Guadeloupe and Dominica), as the engagement was called, was one of the most important sea battles in wooden-ship history. Rodney’s thirty-three ships broke in two places the French line-of-battle of thirty-seven ships of the line, when, after the fleets had nearly passed each other on opposite tacks, a change of wind favored the British. The result was the capture of the French flagship and admiral along with five other ships. It was to be the final battle of the War of the American Revolution, and, strategically, although it did not negate Washington’s victory at Yorktown it did preserve Britain’s West Indian territories. Rodney was rewarded with a peerage although he came in for criticism for not following up his initial victory with the destruction of the remainder of the French fleet. Ó Súilleabháin served on The Formidable, a ship which saw some of the severest fighting and thus “Rodney's Glory" is a first-hand account of the battle.
Calling on song, pretty much to the tune in Jim's last post there:
"Bold Nelson's Praise I'm going to sing
Not forgetting our glorious King
He always did glad tidings bring
For he was a bold commander
There was Sydney Smith and Duncan too
Lord How and all his glorious crew
These were the men who proved true blue
Full of care
Yet I swear
None with Nelson could compare
Not even Alexander"
...followed immediately by the Morris dance version in D major:
Bold Princess Royle { setdance ?? }
Bold Princess Royle { setdance ?? }
A great many versions of this tune must be
about - I met an English 2 row player-
Paul Draper-Name ? He told me he knew of 6
different versions - and played another one
I never new- In portaferry Co,Down,in a
mudcat session = Great fun.
Here Is a version of this tune I got from
Gerry McCartney {Belfast} Many Moons Ago..
He plays a Tenor Banjo now, but then, he
Played a Banjo-mandolin,, And what a Player
of it,,
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=nBKEl1yQxVs
Dose anyone know any Information about this
Lovely Tune and Versions,,,,
jim,,,
# Posted on June 5th 2008 by FIDDLE4
Re: Bold Princess Royle { setdance ?? }
I've always known the tune as The Bold Princess Royal.It wasn't composed to celebrate that Liverpool family.
# Posted on June 5th 2008 by dafydd
Re: Bold Princess Royle { setdance ?? }
I really like this tune. I have almost the exact version on the Chis Smith Coyotebanjo recording with Randal Bays....hmmm...somehow I don't see this recording in thesession database yet..
There is also a very nice version on the Angelina Carberry recording An Traidisiun Beo although it is slightly different.
The "Bold" part of the name is new to me
Thanks for posting
Avi
# Posted on June 5th 2008 by improziv
Re: Bold Princess Royle { setdance ?? }
Isn't it just called The Princess Royal and comes from the Carolan composition, being absorbed into the English tradition as a morris tune. There's two versions in the Michael Raven book listed as from Sherborne and Adderbury. There's a lot about it here (scroll down a bit to find it) http://www.ibiblio.org/fiddlers/PRIN_PY.htm and here: http://folkopedia.efdss.org/Princess_Royal
This is a great tune though. There's a nice version in Pete Cooper's English tune book, and you can read his notes on it here: http://www.petecooper.com/eftnotes.htm#83
# Posted on June 5th 2008 by RichardB
Re: Bold Princess Royle { setdance ?? }
Jim - Angelina Carbury plays a lovely version of this tune on her last CD.
# Posted on June 5th 2008 by Keith Dubinsky
Re: Bold Princess Royle { setdance ?? }
I'd instinctively thought of Carolan making his music in some Yeatsian bubble of country chieftains, minstrels et cetera that might have extended to include going to Baroque concerts in Dublin but was unsullied by contact with Grub Street, the music biz and the real world as we know it. How stupid of me - of course there would have been publishers who knew good tunes when they were going around. I wonder how direct C's dealings with them might have been, and how far his tunes travelled in his lifetime or shortly afterwards.
# Posted on June 5th 2008 by nicholas
Re: Bold Princess Royle { setdance ?? }
Got my version from a recording Patrick Kelly - sure source!
--tM
# Posted on June 5th 2008 by Dan the Man
Re: Bold Princess Royle { setdance ?? }
Nice version of the tune Jim. I know several different versions myself, the O'Carolan one, and others from when I played for Morris dancing years ago before I moved to Ireland.Whether the O'Carolan or the Morris versions came first will probably never be certain.
# Posted on June 5th 2008 by cathycook
Re: Bold Princess Royle { setdance ?? }
got that tune of gerry as well, minus the bold bit. angelina's version does it for me.
# Posted on June 5th 2008 by molloy
Re: Bold Princess Royle { setdance ?? }
ARETHUSA, THE. AKA and see "The Princess Royal." See also Oswald's "My Love is Lost to Me," which Bayard questions as to whether it is derivative of or ancestral to Carolan's tune. The song appeared in the opera The Lock and Key, acted in 1796, with words by Prince Hoare, music composed and selected by William Shield, and relates the engagement of the English frigate The Arethusa with a larger French warship, La Belle Poule, in the English Channel in June, 1778. Although often attributed to Shield, he himself only claimed to have added the bass. Irish writers have claimed that Turlough O'Carolan (1670-1738) composed the tune as "The Princess Royal," in honor of a daughter of Macdermott Roe. Kidson (Groves), however, maintains it was an English country dance from the early 18th century, dedicated to Anne, daughter of George II, who married the Prince of Orange in 1734.
Or this
According to the Canadian singer who related the song to Helen Creighton for her Songs and Ballads from Nova Scotia, this song is based on the true story of a ship carrying passengers between Halifax and Newfoundland. The song was found throughout England and was also popular in America.
The ballad was printed on numerous broadsides in England in the mid and late 1800s. Several of these can be found at the Bodleian Library. The ballad is listed in a Manuscript list of a Bristol printer (Collard) dated 1837. Vaughan Williams collected it, and it appeared in his Folk Songs from the Eastern Counties (1908).*
The dates and ports vary. In different versions the ship leaves on the fourteen or fifteenth of February, fourth of August, eighth of October, fourteenth of April, fourteenth of November and eighteenth of June. The ship sailed from the bay, from land and from Liverpool and was bound for various places including Cairo, the Rio Grande and New Orleans.
The song is sung to several tunes, this is an arrangement by Vaughan Williams. The first time I heard this song it was sung to the tune of Sweet Betsey from Pike.
# Posted on June 5th 2008 by dafydd
Re: Bold Princess Royle { setdance ?? }
dafydd= Changed Title to right spelling..Liverpools a great team but,,lol. + Vaughan Williams now this Interests me alot
molloy= I am not sure about that Bold ? he said you can use it or not..
improziv/ molloy/Keith Dubinsky
I think-
Angelina Carbury- Is the Banjo.
Thanks all I always love {bold} Princess Royal - English ver/
Irish ver,, Whatever - jim,,
# Posted on June 5th 2008 by FIDDLE4
Re: Bold Princess Royle { setdance ?? }
dafydd - This last bit Brill..
Just one more Question {For I dont Play many}
Is this a Set-Dance,,
jim,,,
# Posted on June 6th 2008 by FIDDLE4
Re: Bold Princess Royle { setdance ?? }
RichardB=
I checked out your Links - Know alot now,,,jim,,,
# Posted on June 6th 2008 by FIDDLE4
Re: Bold Princess Royle { setdance ?? }
Dan the Man=
Patrick Kelly - dont know of this man - Thx- jim
cathycook=
You seem to be right about the O'Carolan Bit.. Thanks,,jim,,
# Posted on June 6th 2008 by FIDDLE4
Re: Bold Princess Royle { setdance ?? }
This?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2JPvGPMXF8Q
# Posted on June 6th 2008 by Nick Splease
Re: Bold Princess Royle { setdance ?? }
There's a similar version on Verena Commins & Julie Langan's CD Fonnchaoi. Nice tune - according to dickens' comments under Rodney's Glory,
http://www.thesession.org/tunes/display/3786
that tune is the set dance version of Princess Royal, but I've had a lot of coffee today so probably have impaired reading comprehension!
# Posted on June 6th 2008 by airport
Re: Bold Princess Royle { setdance ?? }
Didn't know of Patrick Kelly's recording of the tune, or of Patrick Kelly overall?! He's the definitive source for the Foxhunter's Reel as well.
--DtM
# Posted on June 6th 2008 by Dan the Man
Re: Bold Princess Royle { setdance ?? }
airport--
Thanks ,
I'll take your word for it,,Problem solved,,
thanks again- jim,,
# Posted on June 6th 2008 by FIDDLE4
Re: Bold Princess Royle { setdance ?? }
Hi Jim,
It's also known as Nelson's Praise and is included in Henry Wood's Sea Songs played at the last night of the Proms.
# Posted on June 6th 2008 by Paul_draper
Re: Bold Princess Royle { setdance ?? }
The bold princess royal is a song on Michael Hanly's Celtic Folkweave album..
I also know the princess royal set dance, but I don't think the tunes have any relation.
# Posted on June 6th 2008 by Kriana
Re: Bold Princess Royle { setdance ?? }
Jim
Matt Crantich has a nice...more 'simplified' version of this tune in The Irish Fiddle Book....set dance...called Rodney's Glory, i'llsend you an mp3 of it.
-michael
ps. he has some other nice set dances in the book/on the cd. he's a big man for them.
# Posted on June 6th 2008 by mtodd
Re: Bold Princess Royle { setdance ?? }
Mick Hanly and Micheal Ó Domhnaill's Celtic Folkweave album!
# Posted on June 6th 2008 by dafydd
Re: Bold Princess Royle { setdance ?? }
Absolutely - just beat me to it, dafydd.
# Posted on June 6th 2008 by Kenny
Re: Bold Princess Royle { setdance ?? }
Great album
I have it on cassette.Is it available on cd?
# Posted on June 6th 2008 by dafydd
Re: Bold Princess Royle { setdance ?? }
Nope, 'Celtic Folkweave' has never been reissued on CD and I've tried to track down the master tapes, but nobody in the record industry seems to know what happened to some of the albums recorded by the long-defunct Polydor label in Ireland.
# Posted on June 6th 2008 by Floss the Tethers
Re: Bold Princess Royle { setdance ?? }
lantern.http://www.soundlantern.com/UpdatedSoundPage.do?ToId=1255&Path=rodneysglory.mp3
RODNEY'S GLORY [1] (Gloire {Ui} Rodnaig). AKA and see "Irishman's Return from America," "My Name is Moll Mackey," "Praises of Limerick." Irish, Air and Long or Set Dance (2/4 time). A Aeolian/Mixolydian (O'Neill/1001, Welling): G Aeolian/Mixolydian (O'Neill/1915): A Dorian (Mitchell, Mulvihill, O'Neill/1850 & Krassen). Standard tuning. AABB. The tune is a set dance version of Turlough O'Carolan's air "Princess Royal [1]" or "Miss MacDermott." The title "Rodney's Glory," explains O'Sullivan (1983), was derived from verses by the poet Eoghain Rua Ó Súilleabháin in 1782, set to O’Carolan’s tune. The song commemorates a naval battle fought that year in which George Rodney (d. 1792), then vice-admiral of Great Britain, encountered a French fleet under Admiral Comte De Grasse. "The Battle of the Saints" or “Les Saintes” (named after Les Isles des Saintes, in the West Indies between Guadeloupe and Dominica), as the engagement was called, was one of the most important sea battles in wooden-ship history. Rodney’s thirty-three ships broke in two places the French line-of-battle of thirty-seven ships of the line, when, after the fleets had nearly passed each other on opposite tacks, a change of wind favored the British. The result was the capture of the French flagship and admiral along with five other ships. It was to be the final battle of the War of the American Revolution, and, strategically, although it did not negate Washington’s victory at Yorktown it did preserve Britain’s West Indian territories. Rodney was rewarded with a peerage although he came in for criticism for not following up his initial victory with the destruction of the remainder of the French fleet. Ó Súilleabháin served on The Formidable, a ship which saw some of the severest fighting and thus “Rodney's Glory" is a first-hand account of the battle.
# Posted on June 6th 2008 by anon
Re: Bold Princess Royle { setdance ?? }
dickens,,
Thanks for this - I add a comment to you sound lantern
Tune = Very well Played,,,
jim,,,,,
# Posted on June 8th 2008 by FIDDLE4
Re: Bold Princess Royle { setdance ?? }
Found this tune to - same sort of version - jim,,,,
http://www.thesession.org/tunes/display/7267
*Nelson's Praise ..
X:1
T:Bold Nelson's Praise
M:4/4
R:
K:Ddor
AG | F2 D2 D2 AG | F2 D2 D4 | B2 GG-GA B2 | A2 F2 F3 A |
G2 F2 E2 D2 | C2 D2 A,2 AG | F2 ED E2 A,2 | D2 D4 AA |
d2 A2 d2 A2 | d2 A2 d2 B2 | c3 d c2 A2 | G2 F2 E4 |
D2 DE F2 G2 | A2 A2 d4 | cA3 B4 | AD3 G4 | F2 E2 D2 D2 |
A2 A,2 A,2 AG | FE D2 E2 F2 | D4 D2 ||
# Posted on June 8th 2008 by FIDDLE4
Re: Bold Princess Royle { setdance ?? }
Calling on song, pretty much to the tune in Jim's last post there:
"Bold Nelson's Praise I'm going to sing
Not forgetting our glorious King
He always did glad tidings bring
For he was a bold commander
There was Sydney Smith and Duncan too
Lord How and all his glorious crew
These were the men who proved true blue
Full of care
Yet I swear
None with Nelson could compare
Not even Alexander"
...followed immediately by the Morris dance version in D major:
X:1
T:Princess Royal
M:4/4
R:
K:D
AG | F2E2 D2AG | FGEF D2A2 | B2G2 GABG | A2F2 F3A |
G2F2 E2 D2 | CDEC A,2AG | FEDF E2C2 | D4 D2 :|: A2 |
B3A B3A | B2c2 d3c | d2c2 B2A2 | FEDF E3A, |
D2D2 E3E | FED2 d3c | d2A2 B3B | A2F2 G3F |
G2F2 E2D2 | CDEC A,2AG | FEDF E2C2 | D4 D2 :|
... and capers ...
|: A2G2 | F4 E4 | D4 A2G2 | F4 E4 | D4 A4 | B4 G4 |
G2A2 B2G2 | A4 F4 | F4 A4 | G2F2 E2D2 |
CDEC A,2AG | FEDF E2C2 | G4 :|
etc
Then, there's Johnny Doherty's version, which I was taught to play by Peter Kennedy, who was taught to play it on fiddle by Johhny Doherty himself ...
... and on, and on ... great tune ...
# Posted on June 8th 2008 by benhall.1