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Session Etiquette and just plain Common Sense Good Manners
Session Etiquette and just plain Common Sense Good Manners
Carrying on from a previous discussion, is session etiquette just plain common sense good manners as applied to a session situation, or are there specific features of this etiquette which are peculiar to session situations?
For full marks, document your answers with specific examples.
Re: Session Etiquette and just plain Common Sense Good Manners
People mistakenly assume we are born with "common sense" when in fact it is learned. If I were to go to a situation that is very strange for me (a Bedouin wedding, for example) my current store of common sense probably wouldn't be sufficient. And people going to sessions for the first time generally need to learn a few things - I certainly did.
Once you have learned the common sense, you need to combine it with good intentions.
Re: Session Etiquette and just plain Common Sense Good Manners
Arriving at a session stoned out of your head with cocaine or "snorting a line" at the table might be considered bad etiquette and certainly not "Common Sense Good Manners"...
Re: Session Etiquette and just plain Common Sense Good Manners
I think the biggest disconnect between the two stems from misunderstanding of the situation. People who aren't familiar with Irish sessions often have a pre-conceived notion of what is going on that is way off base.
Examples of these pre-conceived notions might be things like assuming that the session is an open, free for all, "jam session", or that it's really a performance. Or they might be familiar with the structure of other styles of music, like bluegrass, or old time, where "common sense" that applies to those situations would be rude in an Irish session (like expecting to be given "breaks" to show off your chops, or whatever).
A vast majority of session etiquette really can come down to "good manners" once a person thinks of a session with the "conversation amongst friends" analogy. You don't butt into a conversation unless invited, you don't talk out of turn, you wouldn't interrupt somebody else's story, etc.
But having said that, I think there are some elements of sessions that are not common sense. Things like slagging, for instance. And each session is different, but there's usually an unspoken flow to any given session that is due to the general comfort level and familiarity of the session regulars. That flow can be easily upset by an outsider, who would have no "common sense" way of understanding how that particular session works. (Now, the "good manners" part comes in by the newcomer going with the flow, and actively trying not to do anything that would upset that balance...)
Re: Session Etiquette and just plain Common Sense Good Manners
Last night a lady from Indiana, US of A, turned up at our "session" in Norn' Ireland.
She was quite amazed that we actively encouraged her to play (we are a bit lazy) and when she mentioned etiquette we all laughed, and told her that is a myth spread on a web site called the "session", and lo and behold she is indeed a member.
She said I was the nicest, friendliest person she had ever met in her entire life. Obviously I did not have to introduce myself, accompanied her on one tune and she said "you must be the best bodhran player ever, in short, you must be Bliss".
Modesty prevented me from replying.
Bits of the above are actually true. In short, you do have etiquette as you do for any social gathering, but sometimes people on this site go overboard with rules.
Re: Session Etiquette and just plain Common Sense Good Manners
You also learn that you turn up at a session where things are "very relaxed" so to speak and try to enforce or (sometimes) even abide by some of the stricter rules and guidelines which are often mentioned here then this might actually go against the general flow of such a session. So, that's not necessarily "Common Sense" either!
"Go with the flow" really is the best advice and if you don't like the way things are flowing, just go elsewhere. )
Re: Session Etiquette and just plain Common Sense Good Manners
"She said I was the nicest, friendliest person she had ever met in her entire life. Obviously I did not have to introduce myself, accompanied her on one tune and she said 'you must be the best bodhran player ever, in short, you must be Bliss'."
Re: Session Etiquette and just plain Common Sense Good Manners
bodhran bliss: Dead on!
I have also notice a lot of the extremist view with regard to etiquette compared to reality.
Not to sidetrack the discussion, but I noticed the same thing with regard to "playing to the punters". Typical session.org response to punters: "screw them, we are playing to eachother in our nice little circle, who cares if we are doing it in an irish pub full of people"
Then the reality: play a little to the crowd once in a while, everyone is happy, especially the owner.
Re: Session Etiquette and just plain Common Sense Good Manners
Bliss, it's all fine and dandy to say "there's no such thing as session etiquette", but that's kind of the same thing as saying "anything goes", which is certainly *not* the case in any session I have ever been to. (Actually I have been to some that are way more that way than others, and they were the worst ones by far...)
I have said before that I think sessions are a bit like an extension of Irish culture in the way that they often function. In which case, if you grew up in Irish culture, and the majority of the people around grew up in Irish culture, then much of the interaction *is* common sense.
It may seem to those of you *in* Ireland that those of us *outside* of Ireland obsess over the ideas of the etiquette, but it's because that "common sense" isn't inherently built into our sessions. I could be wrong, but I would think that it's much more likely for us to have old time or bluegrass players, or just completely clueless eejits wander into a session and stomp on the craic.
So we overanalyze, discuss, and argue the finer points of these things ad nauseam, so that hopefully we can help achieve a similar kind of session environment to what you have over there...
Re: Session Etiquette and just plain Common Sense Good Manners
etiquette's nice - I didn't know you weren't supposed to walk across someone's putting line until I was told. Never occurred to me that you could make that grass any flatter.
Re: Session Etiquette and just plain Common Sense Good Manners
I've read all the above, as well as the posted links, and well remember all the session etiquette discussions. But what about the traveler, new in a city, who wants to nip down to the pub and have a few tunes without knowing any of the musicians or without ever having been there before?
Re: Session Etiquette and just plain Common Sense Good Manners
I think it was newspaper columnist "Miss Manners" who once said that manners was simply caring about the impact your actions would have on the feelings of others, and that everything else was just details. Or perhaps it was Emily Post. In any event, hard and fast rules are too rigid to bring about that end, and a system without rules is too loose. A balance between rules and anarchy, informed by an attempt to see things through the eyes of another person, is what is required.
As far as other cities are concerned, if you walk into a pub sensitive to the customs of others, and they are open to you as a newcomer, you can have some good times, as I have had on a number of business trips around the USA.
Re: Session Etiquette and just plain Common Sense Good Manners
Greg - you listen a little while, then you go up and say "Hi, I'm new it town, do you mind if I sit in?" And if they are nice they'll be fine with it.
BB - I am all for a bit of cop on - really - if you cant be arsed with cop on then whatever. But if some eejit comes and ruins my session by being a complete muppet because they have no cop on then - I have to say, I will react. *dont poke the bear in the zoo*
Re: Session Etiquette and just plain Common Sense Good Manners
bb I have no idea what that means - looks like chinese to me
Also I'm glad I decided to change my session handle
In my session people are very polite - verging on stuffy - including
myself so I guess I feel at home there.
You have to remember in a session people are there to have fun.
You might aspire to high standards but you have to cut people
some slack if they're not there yet. Sorry, I don't have any
anecdotes except to thank my colleagues for suffering through
my low (but improving) standard for two years.
Re: Session Etiquette and just plain Common Sense Good Manners
No one with common sense would come and sit next to me and try and bang the goat badly. He didn't have any, he did try and spent the rest of the evening in the naughty corner.
Session ettiquette and good manners apart, I could sense people thinking "callous b***d" about me, but they daren't say anything.
Fact is, if he had stopped next to me, I would have taken my bat home, had a wasted trip and the evening would have been ruined for everyone else.
So it boils down to not spoiling it for everyone else rather than ettiquete and good manners.
Re: Session Etiquette and just plain Common Sense Good Manners
Good points - Geoff, I think you were getting close to answering the question I initially asked, which, paraphrasing, was: what specific features are there to session etiquette *beyond* ordinary common sense and good manners?
Not everyone who plays bodhran would have the wherewithall to not sit next to a box player. You have to *know* something about the dynamics and Fengshui of a session to know where to sit for eaxmple. But then again it may be reasonably asked how many bodhran players have that subtle intuition.
Re: Session Etiquette and just plain Common Sense Good Manners
So, I'm thinking specific examples of this maybe:
If you start a set of tunes, bloody well make sure you can carry them or don't bother
(....unless of course you're with a small intimate group of session friends and you want to try out some new tnes you've been practicing and yeah so you might derail, but you've dienterred them and raised interest.)
If a singer starts up, a bit of Hushh! - you wouldn't know to do this outside of a session setting, because where you're playing is a pub, after all.
If you disagree, and don't think these are session specific examples of etiquette, then would I be right in assuming you don't believe there is any session specific etiquette?
Re: Session Etiquette and just plain Common Sense Good Manners
"If a singer starts up, a bit of Hushh! "
That really bugs me! Even more bugging is the annoyance of a singer who doesn't get suitable attention. I always make a point to saying something to someone during a song - that's my etiquette.
Re: Session Etiquette and just plain Common Sense Good Manners
Yep, that's long been a bugbear. I always chat through songs, or make a point of getting up and going out for a smoke.
This is a good example of session etiquette being just plain stupid. Common sense says why should a punter give a bit of hush to a singer and not the tune players? And common sense is right.
Re: Session Etiquette and just plain Common Sense Good Manners
Yeah, I couldn't agree more.That whole thing gets on my mammaries as well. But I was just giving an example of what seems to be "given" session-specific etiquette.
Re: Session Etiquette and just plain Common Sense Good Manners
"Common sense says why should a punter give a bit of hush to a singer and not the tune players? And common sense is right"
I don't disagree with you here but I suppose it's because the song is seen as a performance unless it's some communal effort which is more rare. Musicians are less inclined to "perfom" in a session situation and it's regarded as backgroud music by the punters.
However, when a musician does perform a solo or some type of set piece they still don't get the same order. People will carry on talking and the singers are the worst , in this respect.
In my experience if a singer starts singing at a session situation, it's up to how good their are at it as to whether people pay attention.
I've seen singers starting and everyone has gone "Sh!" and glared at punters who are chatting away about football or playing pool and after a couple of verses the entire pub (including the Sessioneers) are drifting back into normal loud pub behaviour due to the singer being bollox or feeble or more to the point unable to engage their "audience", especially if they go on to long with some boring old pony.
On the other hand sometimes people are so good (either with a bit of stagecraft or pure musical talent) that the whole pub spontaneously quietens and listens.
And after a singing episode the instrumentalists always seem to "come back on" with extra vigour (mainly coz they're so glad the singing interval is over!).
I particularly hate it when people turn on that "professional intensity" and knod and smile as if they are taken back to childhood or some long past idyll by this no matter how good or bad it is...
Re: Session Etiquette and just plain Common Sense Good Manners
>>>I particularly hate it when people turn on that "professional intensity" and knod and smile as if they are taken back to childhood or some long past idyll by this no matter how good or bad it is...
--agree with you there. Or if it's a humorous song they do big exaggerated ostentatious belly laughs "Waugh Haugh Haugh Haugh" at some bit that is peculiarly Irish just to show how really Irish they are or how well they know Irish rural culture.
Sad, especially when it comes from Irish people.
Re: Session Etiquette and just plain Common Sense Good Manners
Seating - a whole set of rules here. One example: you're sitting
in the inner row (two concentric circles). Somebody comes
in after an hour or so, grabs a seat from the inner row and
pushes it in front of you. Bad manners or what? Suppose this
person is really good and has a long association, but
shows up only once a month or so? What's the proper response?
I held my tongue 'cos this person really can play, but since then
I don't go out of my way to make room.
Re: Session Etiquette and just plain Common Sense Good Manners
That's ridiculous. If you are sat round a table with your mates and a mate comes in, you make room for them. If there are people with instruments not sat round the table, then they are not your mates.
Re: Session Etiquette and just plain Common Sense Good Manners
Hup - all I was saying (in english) is that if you behave like a muppet in a session then expect to be frozen out.....obviously not all sessions are like this, but the ones I go to are.
Re: Session Etiquette and just plain Common Sense Good Manners
I don't so much care for the freezing out approach. You can wreck half a session by doing this. I find the straightforward approach works much better, for two reasons: You only wreck half a minute of your night's enjoyment when you directly tell someone to shut up. And some people (particularly those middle aged eedjits who play "folk" music because they like the fashion - beards and real ale and stuff) are so pathologically anti social and therefore useless at plain common sense good manners that they never even realise they are being frozen out.
Re: Session Etiquette and just plain Common Sense Good Manners
Greg, I Do that a lot. I simply ask politely if I can sit in a play a few tunes. never had a negative reply yet.
If I want to start a set I ask politely if they mind...... Same. no problem.
Session Etiquette and just plain Common Sense Good Manners
Session Etiquette and just plain Common Sense Good Manners
Carrying on from a previous discussion, is session etiquette just plain common sense good manners as applied to a session situation, or are there specific features of this etiquette which are peculiar to session situations?
For full marks, document your answers with specific examples.
# Posted on June 2nd 2008 by Key Maniac Lad
Re: Session Etiquette and just plain Common Sense Good Manners
People mistakenly assume we are born with "common sense" when in fact it is learned. If I were to go to a situation that is very strange for me (a Bedouin wedding, for example) my current store of common sense probably wouldn't be sufficient. And people going to sessions for the first time generally need to learn a few things - I certainly did.
Once you have learned the common sense, you need to combine it with good intentions.
# Posted on June 2nd 2008 by grego
Re: Session Etiquette and just plain Common Sense Good Manners
Arriving at a session stoned out of your head with cocaine or "snorting a line" at the table might be considered bad etiquette and certainly not "Common Sense Good Manners"...
# Posted on June 2nd 2008 by Johannes J
Re: Session Etiquette and just plain Common Sense Good Manners
Turning up with an electric violin with an amplifier and sound effects and pedals would be rude wouldn't it?
# Posted on June 2nd 2008 by D.J.F.
Re: Session Etiquette and just plain Common Sense Good Manners
I think the biggest disconnect between the two stems from misunderstanding of the situation. People who aren't familiar with Irish sessions often have a pre-conceived notion of what is going on that is way off base.
Examples of these pre-conceived notions might be things like assuming that the session is an open, free for all, "jam session", or that it's really a performance. Or they might be familiar with the structure of other styles of music, like bluegrass, or old time, where "common sense" that applies to those situations would be rude in an Irish session (like expecting to be given "breaks" to show off your chops, or whatever).
A vast majority of session etiquette really can come down to "good manners" once a person thinks of a session with the "conversation amongst friends" analogy. You don't butt into a conversation unless invited, you don't talk out of turn, you wouldn't interrupt somebody else's story, etc.
But having said that, I think there are some elements of sessions that are not common sense. Things like slagging, for instance. And each session is different, but there's usually an unspoken flow to any given session that is due to the general comfort level and familiarity of the session regulars. That flow can be easily upset by an outsider, who would have no "common sense" way of understanding how that particular session works. (Now, the "good manners" part comes in by the newcomer going with the flow, and actively trying not to do anything that would upset that balance...)
# Posted on June 2nd 2008 by Reverend
Re: Session Etiquette and just plain Common Sense Good Manners
Well said, Reverend.
# Posted on June 2nd 2008 by Johannes J
Re: Session Etiquette and just plain Common Sense Good Manners
ta
Does that mean I get "full marks"?
# Posted on June 2nd 2008 by Reverend
Re: Session Etiquette and just plain Common Sense Good Manners
If they were mine to give......
# Posted on June 2nd 2008 by Johannes J
Re: Session Etiquette and just plain Common Sense Good Manners
Last night a lady from Indiana, US of A, turned up at our "session" in Norn' Ireland.
She was quite amazed that we actively encouraged her to play (we are a bit lazy) and when she mentioned etiquette we all laughed, and told her that is a myth spread on a web site called the "session", and lo and behold she is indeed a member.
She said I was the nicest, friendliest person she had ever met in her entire life. Obviously I did not have to introduce myself, accompanied her on one tune and she said "you must be the best bodhran player ever, in short, you must be Bliss".
Modesty prevented me from replying.
Bits of the above are actually true. In short, you do have etiquette as you do for any social gathering, but sometimes people on this site go overboard with rules.
# Posted on June 2nd 2008 by bodhran bliss
Re: Session Etiquette and just plain Common Sense Good Manners
You also learn that you turn up at a session where things are "very relaxed" so to speak and try to enforce or (sometimes) even abide by some of the stricter rules and guidelines which are often mentioned here then this might actually go against the general flow of such a session. So, that's not necessarily "Common Sense" either!
"Go with the flow" really is the best advice and if you don't like the way things are flowing, just go elsewhere.
)
# Posted on June 2nd 2008 by Johannes J
Re: Session Etiquette and just plain Common Sense Good Manners
At the sort of places I frequent:
Etiquette is keeping your mouth shut whatever happens.
Good manners is/are getting out of the way when that becomes difficult.
Common sense is getting out of the way unnoticed.
# Posted on June 2nd 2008 by millionyears_bc
Re: Session Etiquette and just plain Common Sense Good Manners
For some time I have in my bookmarks 4 useful links containing info about session etiquette. If you are interested:
http://groups.msn.com/TraditionalIrishMusic/sessionsetiquette.msnw
http://www.nigelgatherer.com/sess/ss4.html
http://pweb.jps.net/~jgilder/seisiun.html
http://www.pressbar.freeserve.co.uk/sessions/etiquet.htm
# Posted on June 2nd 2008 by cesarpim
Re: Session Etiquette and just plain Common Sense Good Manners
"She said I was the nicest, friendliest person she had ever met in her entire life. Obviously I did not have to introduce myself, accompanied her on one tune and she said 'you must be the best bodhran player ever, in short, you must be Bliss'."
I notice she managed to forget "most humble"
# Posted on June 2nd 2008 by Georgi
Re: Session Etiquette and just plain Common Sense Good Manners
bodhran bliss: Dead on!
I have also notice a lot of the extremist view with regard to etiquette compared to reality.
Not to sidetrack the discussion, but I noticed the same thing with regard to "playing to the punters". Typical session.org response to punters: "screw them, we are playing to eachother in our nice little circle, who cares if we are doing it in an irish pub full of people"
Then the reality: play a little to the crowd once in a while, everyone is happy, especially the owner.
Salt
# Posted on June 2nd 2008 by saltcast
Re: Session Etiquette and just plain Common Sense Good Manners
Bliss, it's all fine and dandy to say "there's no such thing as session etiquette", but that's kind of the same thing as saying "anything goes", which is certainly *not* the case in any session I have ever been to. (Actually I have been to some that are way more that way than others, and they were the worst ones by far...)
I have said before that I think sessions are a bit like an extension of Irish culture in the way that they often function. In which case, if you grew up in Irish culture, and the majority of the people around grew up in Irish culture, then much of the interaction *is* common sense.
It may seem to those of you *in* Ireland that those of us *outside* of Ireland obsess over the ideas of the etiquette, but it's because that "common sense" isn't inherently built into our sessions. I could be wrong, but I would think that it's much more likely for us to have old time or bluegrass players, or just completely clueless eejits wander into a session and stomp on the craic.
So we overanalyze, discuss, and argue the finer points of these things ad nauseam, so that hopefully we can help achieve a similar kind of session environment to what you have over there...
# Posted on June 2nd 2008 by Reverend
Re: Session Etiquette and just plain Common Sense Good Manners
Modesty prevented me from replying.
# Posted on June 2nd 2008 by bodhran bliss
Did you miss that bit, Georgi? Amazing what one can miss with preconceived ideas.
Obviously the lady was not aware of my modesty until she had really met me.
I did say "Shucks, a few other players are just as good".
# Posted on June 2nd 2008 by bodhran bliss
Re: Session Etiquette and just plain Common Sense Good Manners
It's a no brainer. Common sense good manners.
I can't be arsed with this thread.
Example: I told a bad mannered person to shut up the other day.
So that's full marks for me then.
# Posted on June 2nd 2008 by llig leahcim
Re: Session Etiquette and just plain Common Sense Good Manners
etiquette's nice - I didn't know you weren't supposed to walk across someone's putting line until I was told. Never occurred to me that you could make that grass any flatter.
# Posted on June 2nd 2008 by airport
Re: Session Etiquette and just plain Common Sense Good Manners
I've read all the above, as well as the posted links, and well remember all the session etiquette discussions. But what about the traveler, new in a city, who wants to nip down to the pub and have a few tunes without knowing any of the musicians or without ever having been there before?
# Posted on June 3rd 2008 by Greg the Piano Tuner
Re: Session Etiquette and just plain Common Sense Good Manners
I think it was newspaper columnist "Miss Manners" who once said that manners was simply caring about the impact your actions would have on the feelings of others, and that everything else was just details. Or perhaps it was Emily Post. In any event, hard and fast rules are too rigid to bring about that end, and a system without rules is too loose. A balance between rules and anarchy, informed by an attempt to see things through the eyes of another person, is what is required.
As far as other cities are concerned, if you walk into a pub sensitive to the customs of others, and they are open to you as a newcomer, you can have some good times, as I have had on a number of business trips around the USA.
# Posted on June 3rd 2008 by AlBrown
Re: Session Etiquette and just plain Common Sense Good Manners
Greg - you listen a little while, then you go up and say "Hi, I'm new it town, do you mind if I sit in?" And if they are nice they'll be fine with it.
BB - I am all for a bit of cop on - really - if you cant be arsed with cop on then whatever. But if some eejit comes and ruins my session by being a complete muppet because they have no cop on then - I have to say, I will react. *dont poke the bear in the zoo*
# Posted on June 3rd 2008 by bb
Re: Session Etiquette and just plain Common Sense Good Manners
Bridie I didn't know you had big claws!
# Posted on June 3rd 2008 by Donough
Re: Session Etiquette and just plain Common Sense Good Manners
bb I have no idea what that means - looks like chinese to me
Also I'm glad I decided to change my session handle
In my session people are very polite - verging on stuffy - including
myself so I guess I feel at home there.
You have to remember in a session people are there to have fun.
You might aspire to high standards but you have to cut people
some slack if they're not there yet. Sorry, I don't have any
anecdotes except to thank my colleagues for suffering through
my low (but improving) standard for two years.
(formerly mhuppert)
# Posted on June 3rd 2008 by Hup
Re: Session Etiquette and just plain Common Sense Good Manners
No one with common sense would come and sit next to me and try and bang the goat badly. He didn't have any, he did try and spent the rest of the evening in the naughty corner.
Session ettiquette and good manners apart, I could sense people thinking "callous b***d" about me, but they daren't say anything.
Fact is, if he had stopped next to me, I would have taken my bat home, had a wasted trip and the evening would have been ruined for everyone else.
So it boils down to not spoiling it for everyone else rather than ettiquete and good manners.
# Posted on June 3rd 2008 by geoffwright
Re: Session Etiquette and just plain Common Sense Good Manners
Good points - Geoff, I think you were getting close to answering the question I initially asked, which, paraphrasing, was: what specific features are there to session etiquette *beyond* ordinary common sense and good manners?
Not everyone who plays bodhran would have the wherewithall to not sit next to a box player. You have to *know* something about the dynamics and Fengshui of a session to know where to sit for eaxmple. But then again it may be reasonably asked how many bodhran players have that subtle intuition.
# Posted on June 3rd 2008 by Key Maniac Lad
Re: Session Etiquette and just plain Common Sense Good Manners
So, I'm thinking specific examples of this maybe:
If you start a set of tunes, bloody well make sure you can carry them or don't bother
(....unless of course you're with a small intimate group of session friends and you want to try out some new tnes you've been practicing and yeah so you might derail, but you've dienterred them and raised interest.)
If a singer starts up, a bit of Hushh! - you wouldn't know to do this outside of a session setting, because where you're playing is a pub, after all.
If you disagree, and don't think these are session specific examples of etiquette, then would I be right in assuming you don't believe there is any session specific etiquette?
# Posted on June 3rd 2008 by Key Maniac Lad
Re: Session Etiquette and just plain Common Sense Good Manners
"If a singer starts up, a bit of Hushh! "
That really bugs me! Even more bugging is the annoyance of a singer who doesn't get suitable attention. I always make a point to saying something to someone during a song - that's my etiquette.
Jim
# Posted on June 3rd 2008 by skerries
Re: Session Etiquette and just plain Common Sense Good Manners
Yep, that's long been a bugbear. I always chat through songs, or make a point of getting up and going out for a smoke.
This is a good example of session etiquette being just plain stupid. Common sense says why should a punter give a bit of hush to a singer and not the tune players? And common sense is right.
# Posted on June 3rd 2008 by llig leahcim
Re: Session Etiquette and just plain Common Sense Good Manners
Yeah, I couldn't agree more.That whole thing gets on my mammaries as well. But I was just giving an example of what seems to be "given" session-specific etiquette.
# Posted on June 3rd 2008 by Key Maniac Lad
Re: Session Etiquette and just plain Common Sense Good Manners
So anyway, you two are agreed that there are examples of session specific etiquette -- which in this case, actually flies in the face of common sense!
# Posted on June 3rd 2008 by Key Maniac Lad
Re: Session Etiquette and just plain Common Sense Good Manners
That should have ended with a "?"
# Posted on June 3rd 2008 by Key Maniac Lad
Re: Session Etiquette and just plain Common Sense Good Manners
"Common sense says why should a punter give a bit of hush to a singer and not the tune players? And common sense is right"
I don't disagree with you here but I suppose it's because the song is seen as a performance unless it's some communal effort which is more rare. Musicians are less inclined to "perfom" in a session situation and it's regarded as backgroud music by the punters.
However, when a musician does perform a solo or some type of set piece they still don't get the same order. People will carry on talking and the singers are the worst , in this respect.
# Posted on June 3rd 2008 by Johannes J
Session Etiquette and Singers...
In my experience if a singer starts singing at a session situation, it's up to how good their are at it as to whether people pay attention.
I've seen singers starting and everyone has gone "Sh!" and glared at punters who are chatting away about football or playing pool and after a couple of verses the entire pub (including the Sessioneers) are drifting back into normal loud pub behaviour due to the singer being bollox or feeble or more to the point unable to engage their "audience", especially if they go on to long with some boring old pony.
On the other hand sometimes people are so good (either with a bit of stagecraft or pure musical talent) that the whole pub spontaneously quietens and listens.
And after a singing episode the instrumentalists always seem to "come back on" with extra vigour (mainly coz they're so glad the singing interval is over!).
I particularly hate it when people turn on that "professional intensity" and knod and smile as if they are taken back to childhood or some long past idyll by this no matter how good or bad it is...
# Posted on June 3rd 2008 by Krick Stahlschwanz
Spelling Corrections!
1st line: "they" nor "thier"
Penultimate line: I don't believe "nod" is spelt with a K!
I must been thinking that they are knobs!
# Posted on June 3rd 2008 by Krick Stahlschwanz
Re: Session Etiquette and just plain Common Sense Good Manners
>>>I particularly hate it when people turn on that "professional intensity" and knod and smile as if they are taken back to childhood or some long past idyll by this no matter how good or bad it is...
--agree with you there. Or if it's a humorous song they do big exaggerated ostentatious belly laughs "Waugh Haugh Haugh Haugh" at some bit that is peculiarly Irish just to show how really Irish they are or how well they know Irish rural culture.
Sad, especially when it comes from Irish people.
# Posted on June 3rd 2008 by Key Maniac Lad
Re: Session Etiquette and just plain Common Sense Good Manners
Seating - a whole set of rules here. One example: you're sitting
in the inner row (two concentric circles). Somebody comes
in after an hour or so, grabs a seat from the inner row and
pushes it in front of you. Bad manners or what? Suppose this
person is really good and has a long association, but
shows up only once a month or so? What's the proper response?
I held my tongue 'cos this person really can play, but since then
I don't go out of my way to make room.
# Posted on June 4th 2008 by Hup
Re: Session Etiquette and just plain Common Sense Good Manners
That's ridiculous. If you are sat round a table with your mates and a mate comes in, you make room for them. If there are people with instruments not sat round the table, then they are not your mates.
# Posted on June 4th 2008 by llig leahcim
Re: Session Etiquette and just plain Common Sense Good Manners
Just to clarify that last point, I don't go out of my way to
accommodate that one particular person.
# Posted on June 4th 2008 by Hup
Re: Session Etiquette and just plain Common Sense Good Manners
Hup - all I was saying (in english) is that if you behave like a muppet in a session then expect to be frozen out.....obviously not all sessions are like this, but the ones I go to are.
# Posted on June 4th 2008 by bb
Re: Session Etiquette and just plain Common Sense Good Manners
I don't so much care for the freezing out approach. You can wreck half a session by doing this. I find the straightforward approach works much better, for two reasons: You only wreck half a minute of your night's enjoyment when you directly tell someone to shut up. And some people (particularly those middle aged eedjits who play "folk" music because they like the fashion - beards and real ale and stuff) are so pathologically anti social and therefore useless at plain common sense good manners that they never even realise they are being frozen out.
# Posted on June 5th 2008 by llig leahcim
Re: Session Etiquette and just plain Common Sense Good Manners
bb - ok - yep I'll agree with that
# Posted on June 5th 2008 by Hup
Re: Session Etiquette and just plain Common Sense Good Manners
... and Llig I gotta laugh at that one; I know the type - verging
on autistic
# Posted on June 5th 2008 by Hup
Re: Session Etiquette and just plain Common Sense Good Manners
Llig - agree about the pathologically anti social types - one finger in the ear and one foot in the mouth!
# Posted on June 5th 2008 by Mark Harmer
Re: Session Etiquette and just plain Common Sense Good Manners
Greg, I Do that a lot. I simply ask politely if I can sit in a play a few tunes. never had a negative reply yet.
If I want to start a set I ask politely if they mind...... Same. no problem.
# Posted on June 5th 2008 by Ionannas