Although discussed here before, I've recently heard a couple of "Celtic" groups... and need to rant. Hey, if the "lift" isn't in the music, what IS the point? Father Kelly's isn't a dirge, and no matter how great your tone is, if my toes aren't tapping, there's something... something BIG... missing. If you can bring both tonal quality and drive to the floor, then that's terrific, but the "lift" is what makes this music great, and if it isn't there, it's muzak, not ITM. Over and out.
Here, what I meant to say here is that here is some violin playing here that I, here, am not trying to make judgement on here... Are all of you here catching my drift here? (bah, where's the durn edit button?)
Yes, but that second clip is just a classical violinist who hasn't learned anything about traditional music. She's "interpreted" Father Kelly's as a "song," a puff piece to showcase what she thinks is important--tone. Frankly, her timing isn't even good enough for what she's trying to do, let alone produce pulse or lift.
(Bearded man lights incense, rests his plump enlightened botto on an embroidered silk pillow, sits silently a moment then deigns to speak.)
THE MAN: The "lift" is always inner. One is free to feel it, one is also free to not feel it. It is not in the music itself. It is—or is not—in the individual listener. Oh, hey Candy, sweetie, bring me a sandwich will you? Pastrami, a little lighter on the mustard this time, all right, honey? You look cute in those shorts by the way, the way you move in them. Reminds me of—who's that actress—Jolie, or something or other. You know who I mean.
Check out some of the related videos involving the same folks from the "no lift" clip. They do a much more credible job on some old-time tunes and aren't using the dots, etc. I'm not sure why they didn't do a better job on Father Kelly, but they clearly aren't clueless in all genres.
interesting clip, jeff. This might just be a good way to point out that playing one genre well (not that I'm a good judge of old time) doesn't mean that you can play a somewhat similar genre well.
Nope, they're take on Angelina Baker also leaves me cold. To her credit, at least on this clip Kari lets the fiddle sound like a fiddle. But once again, she's stuck in a rut--no variations, not even any differences in the bowing shuffle. She's memorized one way to regurgitate the tune and that's all she does. The result is bland and lifeless.
Mind you, it looks like they're nice people, clearly having fun with the music. I just don't get the sense that they've made it ***their*** music yet (or learned much about the traditions behind the music they're playing). So to promote themselves as a band seems a tad premature.
Stuart Duncan's was very nice, but super bluegrassy
I like this one, but you have to sit through a song first
lots of dregs to look through - it's like trying to look up a recording of drowsy maggie http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-IFoBVgt9y8&feature=related
OK, what exactly is going on in here? Do I have to start talking about Bernoulli again? I don't need to go online to hear this stuff. The FL is Florida for crying out loud. It's not just beaches and seniors, it's the South.
I must be strange, but I personally liked the video of Father Kelly's played slow like that, though I didn't watch it all, but before I got into ITM, I liked mostly classical and orchestral (still do, but more of a trad junkie now), which could explain part of that....
I am not sure foundation garments are a good analogy. After all, the music needs to have a good bounce to it, which is something that is lost in a confining garment....
Al - Men often get this impression, but poorly constructed ones allow for a lot more bounce than is desirable when bopping your booty to some good beats...
?????? What is if with some folks ears on this site. - not directed at you in particular awildman
People slag Frankie Gavin, McGoldrick, Lunasa etc ( people who can play their instrument whether you like it or not), but at the same time folk who are ordinary at best are praised. That old time fiddle clip should not be used as an example of good playing, Bit of lift yes, but what about the tuning (nasty) and tone (scratchy). Please don't give me that character card - that simply is just not very good.
A piper I knew in Colorado had this explanation for "lift", which makes sense to me...but maybe it's just me. He instructed me to think of a washing machine--one of the old ones, not a front loader--and to think of the energy, power, and "drive" as it switches direction, which translates to the downbeat. I suppose that means nailing the downbeat with a crisp emphasis. Plus, (I'm talking out my u-know-what here) maybe the addition of the ever-so-slightest, imperceptible syncopation to emphasize the driven beat?
Having spent a fair amount of time growing up in the mountains of North Carolina, I do appreciate the scratchy, old time fiddle sound. It sounds "real" to me.
No lift - no point
No lift - no point
Although discussed here before, I've recently heard a couple of "Celtic" groups... and need to rant. Hey, if the "lift" isn't in the music, what IS the point? Father Kelly's isn't a dirge, and no matter how great your tone is, if my toes aren't tapping, there's something... something BIG... missing. If you can bring both tonal quality and drive to the floor, then that's terrific, but the "lift" is what makes this music great, and if it isn't there, it's muzak, not ITM. Over and out.
# Posted on May 30th 2008 by drone
Re: No lift - no point
These threads are always more interesting when people post links to things they like or detest.
# Posted on May 30th 2008 by reenactor
Re: No lift - no point
What produces lift? Bernoulli's Principle or the Newtonian Explanation?
http://www.funpaperairplanes.com/Learn%20About%20Flight.html#Lift
Oh, sorry, wrong forum!
# Posted on May 30th 2008 by SWFL Fiddler
Re: No lift - no point
I know what you mean though. At the risk of kicking over another can of worms, it's dance music, so yeah, it needs oomph, nyah, lift, 'it', etc.
# Posted on May 30th 2008 by SWFL Fiddler
Re: No lift - no point
How about this:
Lift
http://comhaltas.ie/music/detail/father_kelly
No lift
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iiLUINd1y4c
I'm not making a judgement here on the violin playing here, other than to say that it doesn't have lift, and doesn't sound Irish to me...
# Posted on May 30th 2008 by Reverend
Re: No lift - no point
Here, what I meant to say here is that here is some violin playing here that I, here, am not trying to make judgement on here... Are all of you here catching my drift here?
(bah, where's the durn edit button?)
# Posted on May 30th 2008 by Reverend
Re: No lift - no point
And another thing...what is the deal with airline food?
# Posted on May 30th 2008 by crazy_fingerz
Re: No lift - no point
WTG, SWFL, you hijacked the whole thread in one fell swoop
# Posted on May 30th 2008 by Reverend
Re: No lift - no point
I once got unexpected aerodynamic lift across my bow hairs when playing a gig in a bandstand on a windy day.
# Posted on May 30th 2008 by lazyhound
Re: No lift - no point
Yeah Reverend, that's what I'm talking about!
# Posted on May 30th 2008 by reenactor
Re: No lift - no point
Yes, but that second clip is just a classical violinist who hasn't learned anything about traditional music. She's "interpreted" Father Kelly's as a "song," a puff piece to showcase what she thinks is important--tone. Frankly, her timing isn't even good enough for what she's trying to do, let alone produce pulse or lift.
# Posted on May 30th 2008 by Will CPT
Re: No lift - no point
INTERIOR: EXOTIC-LOOKING TEMPLE : MID-DAY
(Bearded man lights incense, rests his plump enlightened botto on an embroidered silk pillow, sits silently a moment then deigns to speak.)
THE MAN: The "lift" is always inner. One is free to feel it, one is also free to not feel it. It is not in the music itself. It is—or is not—in the individual listener. Oh, hey Candy, sweetie, bring me a sandwich will you? Pastrami, a little lighter on the mustard this time, all right, honey? You look cute in those shorts by the way, the way you move in them. Reminds me of—who's that actress—Jolie, or something or other. You know who I mean.
# Posted on May 30th 2008 by NEW Pure Drop® Ear Canal Oil
Re: No lift - no point
Will (and others),
Check out some of the related videos involving the same folks from the "no lift" clip. They do a much more credible job on some old-time tunes and aren't using the dots, etc. I'm not sure why they didn't do a better job on Father Kelly, but they clearly aren't clueless in all genres.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Aq-SkZZ6gNI
Jeff
# Posted on May 30th 2008 by jeff_willner
Re: No lift - no point
BTW, that Father Kelly clip is a good example of what I call "Vam-pirish" music; it's had all the life sucked out of it.
J
# Posted on May 30th 2008 by jeff_willner
Re: No lift - no point
interesting clip, jeff. This might just be a good way to point out that playing one genre well (not that I'm a good judge of old time) doesn't mean that you can play a somewhat similar genre well.
# Posted on May 30th 2008 by Reverend
Re: No lift - no point
...and I was being nice too. Normally I think of brassiere commercials: "It lifts AND separates!"
# Posted on May 30th 2008 by SWFL Fiddler
Re: No lift - no point
Nope, they're take on Angelina Baker also leaves me cold. To her credit, at least on this clip Kari lets the fiddle sound like a fiddle. But once again, she's stuck in a rut--no variations, not even any differences in the bowing shuffle. She's memorized one way to regurgitate the tune and that's all she does. The result is bland and lifeless.
Mind you, it looks like they're nice people, clearly having fun with the music. I just don't get the sense that they've made it ***their*** music yet (or learned much about the traditions behind the music they're playing). So to promote themselves as a band seems a tad premature.
# Posted on May 30th 2008 by Will CPT
Re: No lift - no point
Wow, this site is great: http://comhaltas.ie
Thanks for leading me to it Reverend.
# Posted on May 30th 2008 by Whiddler
Re: No lift - no point
Compare this Angelina Baker to the Black and Tan's:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t5Jm_4YcWHw&feature=related
# Posted on May 30th 2008 by Will CPT
Re: No lift - no point
Stuart Duncan's was very nice, but super bluegrassy
I like this one, but you have to sit through a song first
lots of dregs to look through - it's like trying to look up a recording of drowsy maggie
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-IFoBVgt9y8&feature=related
# Posted on May 30th 2008 by reenactor
Re: No lift - no point
sorry Black & Tan's, but that just reminded me of a version of "summertime" I saw performed on Lawrence Welk. This here's some old time:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4FxG_vK_ky4&feature=related
# Posted on May 30th 2008 by airport
Re: No lift - no point
OK, what exactly is going on in here? Do I have to start talking about Bernoulli again? I don't need to go online to hear this stuff. The FL is Florida for crying out loud. It's not just beaches and seniors, it's the South.
Very fine fiddlin' there.
# Posted on May 30th 2008 by SWFL Fiddler
Re: No lift - no point
Is Bernoulli at all related to Rafe Stefanini? that guy's great. Thought you just had Klezmer and Salsa down there, but good to know....
# Posted on May 30th 2008 by airport
Re: No lift - no point
I must be strange, but I personally liked the video of Father Kelly's played slow like that, though I didn't watch it all, but before I got into ITM, I liked mostly classical and orchestral (still do, but more of a trad junkie now), which could explain part of that....
# Posted on May 31st 2008 by JosephofCK
Re: No lift - no point
"Black and Tan's" version of Angelina Baker was just.. well... I didn't watch it all... it was like listening to country
# Posted on May 31st 2008 by JosephofCK
Re: No lift - no point
Old-Time with "lift": http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=FcJNX2gs65I
Irish fiddle with "lift": http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=Zb1K5BCtLY8
# Posted on May 31st 2008 by awildman
Re: No lift - no point
If you aren't getting any lift try a Playtex Cross Your Heart. And you should see points as well.
# Posted on May 31st 2008 by Key Maniac Lad
Re: No lift - no point
Is that the 18 hour bra Danny?
Now I'm wondering if they still make a Playtex girdel.
My how my mid-section has grown!!
# Posted on June 1st 2008 by Frunobulax
Re: No lift - no point
I am not sure foundation garments are a good analogy. After all, the music needs to have a good bounce to it, which is something that is lost in a confining garment....
# Posted on June 1st 2008 by AlBrown
Re: No lift - no point
Al - Men often get this impression, but poorly constructed ones allow for a lot more bounce than is desirable when bopping your booty to some good beats...
# Posted on June 1st 2008 by mehitabel23
Re: No lift - no point
Old-Time with "lift": http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=FcJNX2gs65I
Irish fiddle with "lift": http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=Zb1K5BCtLY8
?????? What is if with some folks ears on this site. - not directed at you in particular awildman
People slag Frankie Gavin, McGoldrick, Lunasa etc ( people who can play their instrument whether you like it or not), but at the same time folk who are ordinary at best are praised. That old time fiddle clip should not be used as an example of good playing, Bit of lift yes, but what about the tuning (nasty) and tone (scratchy). Please don't give me that character card - that simply is just not very good.
# Posted on June 1st 2008 by bogman
Re: No lift - no point
I really liked both, including the tuning and scratchiness of the Old-time track.
# Posted on June 1st 2008 by wolfbird
Re: No lift - no point
maidenform chansonette:
http://news.eastday.com/s/20070918/images/01075135.jpg
yes lift, yes pointy
# Posted on June 1st 2008 by airport
Re: No lift - no point
A piper I knew in Colorado had this explanation for "lift", which makes sense to me...but maybe it's just me. He instructed me to think of a washing machine--one of the old ones, not a front loader--and to think of the energy, power, and "drive" as it switches direction, which translates to the downbeat. I suppose that means nailing the downbeat with a crisp emphasis. Plus, (I'm talking out my u-know-what here) maybe the addition of the ever-so-slightest, imperceptible syncopation to emphasize the driven beat?
Having spent a fair amount of time growing up in the mountains of North Carolina, I do appreciate the scratchy, old time fiddle sound. It sounds "real" to me.
# Posted on June 2nd 2008 by JavaWeasel