I've heard that quite a few players of renown and quality are big into certain drugs these days, particularly cocaine. I've noticed sometimes certain people are nice people and easy to get along with but then other times they become arrogant to the point where they ignore people they know. I've noticed that at these times the people look a bit intense as if they're on cocaine.
So am I alone here or is there a problem with cocaine and other drugs in sessions these days?
Are any of you prepared to admit to knowing people who regularly take drugs before or during sessions or indeed are any of you actually willing to say you take drugs? I'm not really talking about cannabis here cos loads of people do it quite openly. As far as I know cocaine, speed and E are the main hard drugs of choice.
I know this is a bit controversial but I think it's an important subject cos it worries me that some very talented trad musicians might be addicted to cocaine and not realise what assholes they're becoming!!!
What other people like to do in their sessions is none of your business, quite frankly. As far as I'm concerned, sessions are made by the musicians for the musicians to make music, and they're free to shape it in any way they please, just as they are free to choose how they spend any other night out with their friends. You wouldn't go up to a group of unknown people in the pub and tell them they should change their topic of conversation or stop taking their drug of choice, would you? Well maybe you would, but I wouldn't expect them to say "oh ok then, you're right, thanks, will do". Can't wait to hear what the session.org preachers have to say about this one (yawn).
I do take your point about people becoming antisocial on drugs though. That's really annoying. If that annoys you then I guess you just have to respond by not socialising with them.
One or two of the session pubs I go to have dire warnings posted about the illegality of using or dealing in drugs on the premises. You will correctly surmise that said pubs tend to be in certain city areas where there are, or have been, problems.
Speaking for myself, I have never been aware of any illegal substance use in any of the pub sessions I've been to in England or Ireland.
"I've noticed sometimes certain people are nice people and easy to get along with but then other times they become arrogant to the point where they ignore people they know"
Maybe sometimes you're OK to them and then other times you're an irritating git. Or maybe it's The Drugs.
Seriously though I did used to know some players who did snort lines of coke in the loos. Yeah, sure they payed faster and more intensely and all that. But snorting lines in the toilets. Fux ache. How sordid.
As Llig says, alcohol is readily available and many musicians will head outside for some fresh air and a little nicotine or some other substances. Actually, doing the latter is far less obvious these days now that there's a smoking ban. It's now accepted that people will leave the pub for a smoke.
Of course, there will be some musicians who are addicted to harder or less socially acceptable drugs but I'd guess these would be in the minority. More likely to be found among "perfomers" than the average session musician although I know that full time musicans and members of bands also have nights off when the can just "join in" for a tune.
Dow says
"What other people like to do in their sessions is none of your business, quite frankly."
Well, the problem is that such activities are still illegal and if musicians are "busted" then this might have a detrimental effect on the future of a session. The landlord might consider that his licence is more important than the music.
Most police officers (I'm sure this is still the case) will turn a blind eye to people using cannabis and other softer drugs especially if the culprits are otherwise respectable "middle class" citizens (Most session musicians/traddies/folkies in general are these days!!! For good or ill........)
However, I'm sure they'll take a much harder line (Play on words not intentional) with the likes of cocaine and so on. I'm sure this can't be good for the music in the long run.
You may well be right and it may well not be good for the music in the long run, but what are you going to do? Tell them off?! Tell them that they have a responsibility to the music and other musicians, and that if their session ceases to happen because of their actions then they have done the music community a disservice? Please, gimme a break! If this stuff offends you then the answer is simple: 1) don't be friends with those people and 2) start going to a different session.
Of course, I'm not going preach to them and it wouldn't be my place to do so....
...Unless it was MY PUB (being the owner), of course, or MY/OUR session and these were visiting or irregular musicians. Again, there would also have to be a general consensus of feeling in this regard.
However, in most other circumstances, I'd agree with your advice...
1) don't be friends with those people and 2) start going to a different session.
Personally I couldn't care less what sh!te people wanted to put into their bodies if that's what they wanted to do. Why they want to do it is their business.
But taking up the point JohnJ made. Our landlord Con at the Blythe is a great guy, a one in a million brilliant landlord. But he is an old school Irish pub governor. If some session players were to be snorting up in the bogs and he found out....end of session. How clever is that?
Well, this certainly clears the "Why do these heck do all these drunk and stoned folks play so fast?" question up. I mean, normally I get a bit slower and more relaxed after a pint or two, but now I see how it works.
"Excuse me Mr. Blow Jangles, but I think you want the Rave, that's down the street, listen for the DJs spinning House music and those crazy kids with the day-glo pacifiers in their mouths."
In all seriousness, it should be a free world, go do what you like as long as you're only hurting yourself. To adress the question directly, the hardest thing I've seen at our sessions is the bodhran player's noggin. I can't imagine this is a huge, wide-spread issue. As musicians I'm sure we have a slightly higher percentage of hard drug use among our ranks than the rest of the population, but I can't imagine it's an epidemic or anything. All of the folks I play with are lovely, kind, friendly, boring family people with regular jobs, children, spouses, etc.
I suppose drug use is a fact of life anywhere....not just sessions. Professionally, it has been a problem in the past where staff-or worse in one case superiors had access to the stuff. When they were on a roll you couldn't keep up with them...the bounced from situation to situation never resolving things and became God-awefully nasty to the point of violence on the way down or when things became frustrating.
That's why I got involved in ITM... a totally different avocation. Most of the places I've been, strongest thing there was Guiness or Smithwicks. On the other hand, I was at one pub with a session in the Northwest of Ireland-Herself would not let me play in thankfully- where several patrons appeared to be more influenced by recreational substances resulting in a row in the street.
I suppose I am more concerned about younger musicians using beta blockers and such to enhance performance/calm down. Very common here in the states.
"What other people like to do in their sessions is none of your business, quite frankly. As far as I'm concerned, sessions are made by the musicians for the musicians to make music, and they're free to shape it in any way they please"
Dow, if you really believe this then that means you have no problem with a terrible musician coming in and ruining a session for a bunch of good-natured musicians. No difference between an out of time bodhran player ruining a session and a coked-up tune player ruining it cos they act arrogantly.
I totally agree that people should be free to do whatever the hell they want, so long as it doesn't detrimentally effect others. The problem with coke-heads is that they really detrimentally effect people around them.
It's well known that coke makes people arrogant and self-centred. I do tend to avoid people who are in a coked up state, yet I do think it's genuinely sad that some really good musicians who are actually nice people when they're not on coke don't seem to realise that they are being really anti-social.
I've only noticed this with a few people but I wonder is it becoming more widespread.
Regarding alcohol, of course it can be problematic too but cocaine brings out another side in people altogether that just really messes up the social nature of sessions.
Maybe I'm missing something here, but why would you want to go to sessions populated by "alleged" [and I do mean alleged] coke users? And, aside from doing lines on the table, how do you know, I mean really know, they're "using"? Seems problematic to me. There are lots of things that can make people hyper, depressed, agitated or otherwise and make "nice people" into "not nice" people sometimes -- things like life, an annoying spouse, bad traffic, a few pints too many, thyroid conditions, etc.
This whole topic [if that's what it is] seems somewhat odd to put it mildly. But each to their own. Frankly, !@£$%^&*(), maybe it would be worrying more about the quality of the tunes or your own playing, the pace, or whatever -- and less about the personal lives of fellow musicians.
If people want to screw with their heads, that's their business. It might annoy you, but it's not your business. Everyone has a right to their own lives, as a therapist once sagely said.
I'm with Dave Frisbee on this. All the people who say what someone puts in their bodies is none of your business seem to be the same ones who say a session is just a social gathering with a bunch of mates who just happen to play music. Strange contradiction here. Well I don't want to be mates with a load of drugged up arrogant loudmouths.
"Dow, if you really believe this then that means you have no problem with a terrible musician coming in and ruining a session for a bunch of good-natured musicians. No difference between an out of time bodhran player ruining a session and a coked-up tune player ruining it cos they act arrogantly."
How ridiculous. How on earth did you get that from my post?
Agreed Key, but why not then simply choose another session where you don't have these idiots?
Sometimes abandoning ship is the best route. There's always more good music where that came from surely.
And on a scale of 1-10, I suspect bad intonation or timing is more of a threat to an enjoyable night of music playing than cocaine will ever be....
Agreed, but no-one has yet commented on my earlier point... although I'm sure Danny would agree with me...
i.e. What do you do if they come to your session (where the majority of regulars don't particularly welcome this sort of behaviour)?
Drugs are common at my local sessions. And I don't mean the pints, shots, and occasional toke. I'm talking the hard stuff, like methyltrexate, coumidin, indocin, imitrex, celebrex, lexapro, and even chemo. Not to mention massive hits of ibuprofen, arnica, and preparation H.
We're just a bunch of broken old gits in pain. It takes a whole pharmacy just to regain movement enough to play.
Seriously, all my session mates are good friends. If one of them had a drug problem, I'd have a gentle talk with them.
I think we need a bit more information here. Are these drug users the majority or minority? Are they regulars or visitors? Are they snorting discreetly in the loos or at the session table blatantly in front of the landlord?
I wonder what the effects of drugs are on the session site,we sometimes get some pretty wacky statements,are the people that make theses statements out of their heads,on cocaineor some other drug.Dick Miles
My point is if, as some people here claim, sessions are all about the people, then sessions with arrogant mouthie druggies is not fulfilling that basic claim.
Of course I wouldn't go near a session like that.
Dow,I have never met anyone from this site apart from Ling Pupa,who I did a few gigs with.
Ling Pupa has been very quiet for along time,I dont think anyone can accuse him of making wacky statements,and I dont think he considers me as a friend.
I don't believe that this thread is for real. All we seem to worry about is the effect drugged up musicians may have on the session, but what about that young fellow today starting a life sentence for shooting his mate and turning him into a vegetable all because he could not repay a drug debt. These type of horror stories crop up every few days or so and if the recreational drug users were to revert back to good old fashioned porter, then maybe there would be no role for the drug barons who might then go out of business.
And what about how it affects people who are on them? Someone I know got a gun pointed at his temple through his car window while stopped at the lights, by some irate cracked-up yardie whom he had just cut up, driving through Brixton. Coke is ok? yeah right.
Well, I never witnessed drug use in a session [music session of course!] but some of my friends do coke. I personally wouldn't touch the stuff. Cigarettes and alcohol do it for me. I don't have a problem with what they're doing yet. If it became a bad habit with my close friends, I would talk to them [I have done before] about it. At the end of the day, its an irresponsible thing to do and someone else's foolish choice. I've no problem with drug addicts so long as I don't end up on the receiving end of their behavior [and I don't just mean directly.] If that happens, then its different. But if they cause no trouble around me, I'm happy.
I must have lived a very sheltered life, but on reflection this whole scenario could explain the attitude of many people I met over the year. At the time I just thought that they were a shower of 'wrist merchants'
Dow at the end of his first post: "Can't wait to hear what the session.org preachers have to say about this one (yawn)."
Oh, so we ought not to express any dissenting opinion of Dow's "libertarian" attitudes for fear of sarcastic retribution. Libertarian fascism. What a curious ideology.
"I've heard that quite a few players of renown and quality are big into certain drugs these days, particularly cocaine."
"These days"??
This has been going on forever! Perhaps the Celtic Tiger has made a number of these illicit substances more accessible in Ireland than they were before, but let's not pretend it's a new thing to traditional music.
If I have my rumors straight, a number of the better bands in the 70's were big into that stuff. At least one of my favorite albums from that time period was (unsurprisingly) recorded under the influence (as much was admitted to me by one of the performers); the problem hasn't gone away either. I can think of a handful of good trad musicians that are still known cokeheads. I've seen a great fiddler come through town, and do lines inbetween sets (it was obvious, and didn't improve the music at all). In fact, I'm listening to one such known-cokehead's album right now.
Yes, I think it's irresponsible, but for that matter so is drinking inordinate quantities of alcohol--and many of those who decry pot/cocaine are guilty of that (I'll own up myself). Let's keep it all in perspective. The critical thing is that your drug of choice not become a priority over the other things in your life--and those priorities do seem to have a way of getting out of hand.
In the end, some people feel that drugs or alcohol makes them play better (I respectfully disagree, mainly disputing the causality). But if drug use is interfering with their interpersonal relations (eg: making them behave like arseholes), then it's worth saying something to them. I've seen a few friendships (and livelihoods) fall apart over misplaced priorities like that.
What's really fun is pretending you are on drugs! An air would be on heroin, a jig would be a pint, a reel would be like cocopuffs, and a fling would be like a whitey of some kind. I think some recordings of incredible music had to be played by musicians on craic!
I'd like to know how these people who play in sessions coked up can afford to splash out on Cocaine while it cripples me to have a session on drink. It's bad enough trying to save up for a decent instrument without throwing it up your nose.
Firstly, there's a widespread ignorance about the actual effects of psychotropic substances, some of which has been revealed during this discussion. How that ignorance is maintained is a subject often debated by those working in the field of drug use, but, symptomatic of populist viewpoints, bear in mind the poster's own statement that 'I've noticed that at these times the people look a bit intense as if they're on cocaine'. Well, believe me, looking 'intense' is not a universally recognised determinant of cocaine use.
Secondly, as Dow remarked earlier, but I'd like to reiterate, someone's use of a particular substance is their own affair (although a user cannot control how said use is viewed by others) until said use has deleterious effects on others. Taking cocaine or any stimulant with similar effects will not result in the ability to play faster, only in the individual's belief or feeling that s/he is capable of playing faster and would probably enjoy the experience. Those listening to the musical results are more likely to recognise the effects of clumsiness rather than a new-found ability to play faster.
Lastly, the incidence of drug-related crime is substantially lower worldwide than all the crimes and misdemeanours related to alcohol use (many of which, in Ireland in particular, have gone unreported over the decades because of an unhealthy police attitude towards drunkenness, not least in terms of marital abuse).
For the record I was responsible for NHS drugs education strategy for a significant part of Central London for several years in the 1990s.
Years ago i was in a band where most of the people liked the wacky backy . After a few sets of this they would be saying how well we were playing and I would be thinking no we are not we sound crap .
So I stuck to alcohol. Still sound crap sometimes though but I know its me .
(Middle-aged man stands before a stove and holds up a shaky egg.)
Man (dispassionately): This is your session.
(Middle-aged man cracks open the shaky egg, spilling its soon sizzling filling into a super-heated frying pan.)
Man: This is your session on drugs.
The Dude (like friggin mangled): Whoa. Check out like the patterns it's making, like in the pan? And like check out the patterns in the A part of The Mason's Like Apron? Like the universe could be all in that pan, or in the A part of that tune?
One of the lessons I have learned about myself after playing music for far too many years is that I enjoy playing music more when I am completely sober. I usually wait to drink a beer or two after I get home from whatever jam session I have just been participating in.
In 1989, I was taking a political science class at a local university. The professor who was teaching the class liked to start each class period with a discussion of the current issues of the day. One day the topic the professor choose was the so-called "War On Drugs". The professor asked what we thought about the "War On Drugs" and you could have heard the proverbial pin drop because the silence was so deafening. After the silence had stretched out for several seconds, I half-jokingly, half-seriously suggested that perhaps the government should legalize all drugs. My comment was what it took to break the ice because it seemed as if every member of that class (approximately twenty people) had something to say on this subject. It was as if the dam had burst and the flood of comments was going to drown out everybody (including the professor).
I did know of a fine musician, who was also reputed to enjoy the odd recreational narcotic in his spare time, and his advice was never to record anything you were playing whilst under the influence, as you were likely to be severely disappointed upon playing it back whilst sober.
Personally I can't even cope with the third pint, either the volume or the effect it has on me, but perhaps that's just old age.
Many of the great musicians you hear on recordings are cokeheads, and no I'm not mentioning any names. The point is, they're doing it all the time with their mates when they go to sessions - it's just normal for them. And then they go ahead and make great music. That's not to say they couldn't make great music without the drugs of course, but this whole thing about drugs having a bad effect on the music is a crock of sh*te. I've never heard of these musicians going out and robbing someone at gunpoint to feed their habit, or ruining every session they go to with their bad attitude. In fact they seem to be really popular and have heaps of friends. And the rest is absolutely none of my business - let them get on with it. Eventually they'll realise their bodies can't take it or whatever, but you've got to live your own life and discover that for yourself, not have some fuddy duddy preach a sermon to you about how "drugs are bad, period". That's just boring and pointless. It doesn't teach us anything we don't know already.
Yes, some people have to learn such things for themselves. But they can serve as a cautionary tale for others, who learn as innocent bystanders. Seeing the effects of serious addiction up close in one of your friends can be enough to scare you smart.
Or seeing the fatal effects of, say, alcohol, on a close relative, as I have. They may realise their bodies can't take it but by that time it may be too late. What a waste of life. All just to get an ephemeral buzz.
body rhythms can effect how one plays as well.
when Iam feeling tired, I think the best thing to do is not to drink alcohol when Iam playing,I dont think smoking cannabis helps either.,whereas caffeine can help.its abit like driving a car really.
I think that to play well its important to be sober,not stoned,and feeling good in yourself.the same thing goes for practising.
Ialso think that the legalisation of all drugs [thus removing them from the hands of criminals]might be worth trying .Dick Miles
taking drugs has never helped anybody to play better.
being a good player depends upon three things, talent ,practice and a lot of listening.
if people are taking drugs in a session in a public place[publichouse]they are risking the whole stabilty of the session ,they are endangering the publicans licence,.They are risking ,spoiling the relationship between the landlord and the musicians,isnt the music the most important thing?DickMiles
I suppose it all comes back to the "Every session is different" argument which many people here (I know this in relation to other discussions) don't seem to be prepared to grasp.
While I agree that we should "Live and let live" wherever possible if not going as far as adapting our behaviour to "snorting" the stuff ourselves...(It's one thing playing the repertoire but we don't have to use cocaine), there are still several venues, locations, social situations etc where this type of behaviour is not acceptable. Therefore, drug users should respect others and their point of view as well.
What might be acceptable "down under" these days isn't necessarily the case in all places back home.. Not even in your own native Northumbria.
Anyway, I wish Zina was still here. I know what she would say on the matter.... *snort*
I suppose if you're a flute/whistle druggie, snorting would help your circular breathing, because before too long you wouldn't have a nasal septum.
But never mind, the NHS would pay for restorative work, as it would for all the numerous health problems you get if you're a druggie. Let's face it why should you as a druggie pay for it? you need all your money for your next score. Let all the sap tax-payers pay for your medical problems. After all, they're fit enough, mentally and physically, to go and work to pay for it. You need all your strength for your drugs. And anyway, it's none of their business what you do in your session - apart from paying for the mess you leave behind of course...........
I really hate musicians. Many of them end up needing treatment for RSI, and I have to pay for it as a tax payer, even though it was their stupid hobby that caused the RSI in the first place.
I particularly hate musicians who take hard drugs. It's obvious that they'll eventually become addicted, and find themselves on the slippery slope. When they're addicted they will do anything to get their fix, those musicians. They mug our grandmothers and grandfathers on the street for the small change in their pockets. They break into our parents' house and rob them of all the things they worked so hard to buy. They also rape our children and stuff like that. They're pure evil. Bring back the death sentence.
Now you're talking. But why stop at the death sentence? Torture them first by making them sit in at a session with drug addicts clacking spoons and shaking eggs.
Dow,my own experience.
I repeat those people that take any illegal drug ,or get plastered on alcohol while playing and think they are playing better are only kidding themselves
.Dow the answer[imo] is not to bring back the death sentence ,neither is it to turn a blind eye,but it might be worth trying legalising all drugs,so that heroin addicts get clean needles,and dont have to commit crime to find money,for the price of exorbitant blackmarket prices,the government then takes control of a social problem,it can at the same time run a propaganda campaign through television [etc]against the use of drugs.
In the meantime these drugs are illegal,and anyone who takes drugs during a session[or even smokes dope on the premises ,this includes beer gardens and smoking zones is endangering the publican and the session.DickMiles
" I particularly hate musicians who take hard drugs. .........They're pure evil. Bring back the death sentence."
Nobody was suggesting that all drug users fall into this category and certainly not those who play traditional music in pubs.
However, as you will probably agree, there are all varieties of people who frequent the traditional (and other) music scenes.
They aren't all nice to know by any means although the less savoury ones are usually in the minority.
You wouldn't buy a used car from some of them, leave your spouse or partner alone with them, lend them money, let them into your house and so on (Same in all walks of life).
Depending on the circumstances, however, you might happily tolerate some or all of them in certain situations. You would make a choice though whether or not to welcome them into your session with open arms or go out of your way to join them in their sessions.
The same would apply with known drug users who wouldn't bother me too much, incidentally, as long as they kept this activity separate from that of playing music and were discreet about their habits.
Dow,please tell me of musicians whose performances have been improved by the ue of drugs.
drug use has cut short many musicians potential,JimiHendrix,TubbyHayes,JanisJoplin,Charlie Parker, BrianJones. to name a few.
I feel I have aresponsibility to younger musicians not to encourage them to use drugs.
to quote from the house of the rising sun.
go tell my baby sister not to do as Ihave done but to shun that house inNewOrleans they call the RisingSun.
Dow ,Ive been there done itworn the t shirt and Idont recommend it,now cop on.
It's not just the ignorance about the effects of psychotropic drugs, and the sheer prejudice against those who use(d) them which continues to stagger me, but the abundance of blanket statements (and the fact that certain posters don't seem to comprehend Dow's irony - I understand it as I've often done Dow's ironing).
Sure, septum perforation can occur through prolonged use of cocaine, but you have to be sniffing a hell of a lot to reach that state. And the chance of incurring such damage as a result of snorting amphetamine sulphate is extremely low and just about as high as regularly using snuff.
Danny's rant about the NHS paying for the treatment of drug users' health problems completely ignores the fact that far more money is spent on dealing with those who over-eat, those who self-harm, those who drive dangerously and those who've become addicted to prescription medicines.
Then there are the ridiculous comments about whether or not people would have been better or not musicians without the use of drugs declared illegal by whichever state they happened to inhabit or whether their use of whatever substances they were using cut short their artistic potential. There's no arguing that a few musicians have died as a result of overdosing, but the overwhelming majority lived to tell the tale for a significant time longer.
We've absolutely no way of knowing whether Hendrix might have recorded a better album than 'Electric Ladyland' if he'd lived longer, but we do have plenty of evidence that the creativity of, say, Miles Davis was unsullied by substance use.
Janis Joplin certainly did overdose on smack, but regarding the four other musicians cited by Dickens:
1) the coroner's report on Brian Jones was death by misadventure;
2) Tubby Hayes died during heart surgery;
3) the official cause of Charlie Parker's death was pneumonia and a bleeding ulcer;
4) the cause of Hendrix's death is still unclear, though the doctor who first attended him suggested that he had died from asphyxiation as a result of choking on his own vomit (and gave an over abundance of red wine as the source).
In other words, none of these four's deaths was proved to be due to their drug use.
I'm not sure why Dickens cites ' The House of the Rising Sun' since there are absolutely no references to drug use in any of the recorded versions. Indeed, there's still plenty of doubt as to whether the house in question served illicit booze, was a brothel or a prison.
Yes Mac, it is pretty sad, both the misconceptions and the missed irony. As a smart-ass I find the latter the most sad of all.
The reason why there's crime related to drugs is because it's illegal. Illegal drugs are just like legal ones. Use with care, caution and common sense, if you must use them all.
Or don't. People use the legal ones irresponsibly too, sad to say. The moral of the story, in my opinion at least, is that people will do whatever they want to do to themselves, you can't legislate that out of existence. Scare tactics and preaching doesn't work either. What can you do? Hope the vast majority of folks are responsible from being raised properly, keep a close eye on the sociopaths, and stop throwing people in jail for doing things to themselves.
Oh great, now I'm preaching. We now return you to your regularly scheduled nonsense and smart-assery.
>Danny's rant about the NHS paying for the treatment of drug users' health problems completely ignores the fact that far more money is spent on dealing with those who over-eat, those who self-harm, those who drive dangerously and those who've become addicted to prescription medicines.
Ignore? Just because I didn't mention those. The discussion wasn't about driving fast cars, overeating and self-harming. I hate those as well, BTW.
Dow's irony was not missed on me...I just...erm...completely ignored it......
There's no doubt anyone with the screen name "Key Maniac Lad" is going to have a sense of irony. Well, that and the story about the box in the bathroom the other day.
Double blind tests have concluded that at least one drug, propranolol, tends to improve the performance of some musicians. That’s why so many performers of all sorts use it. Why is it so hard to accept that some recreational drugs might have a similar effect? Just because there might be deleterious effects doesn’t mean there can’t be beneficial ones also.
Back before the alcohol and tobacco companies bought marijuana prohibition, there was beginning to be some serious consideration of the effects of marijuana on music and artistic performance. As far as I know, no real science was done on the subject (the US govt effectively prohibits virtually all marijuana research that looks for benefits), but there were interesting anecdotal reports, not so much of outstanding performance as of personal breakthroughs in playing. Likewise with LSD.
[If you are not an adult, please avoid all recreational drugs.]
"Dow,please tell me of musicians whose performances have been improved by the ue of drugs."
No, I won't. I don't have to, because I never made any claim that performances have been improved. I merely said that you cannot legitimately claim otherwise without proof. And please don't tell me to "cop on" when we're having a discussion. It's rude and insulting.
I would say "Grass" really improves one's playing as it gives a lift and a heightened sense of the beauty of music.
Pollen, soap and all those make one more relaxed, relaxed enough to give a smoother performance.
The old "Lebanese Black" and such made you really get into the music "Man" and become totally absorbed with your excellent, wonderful playing. Unfortunately you could have been playing a different tune from the others at the table.
I would recommend good grass to anyone. Stay away from alcohol, as that is addictive and harmful, and obviously cigarettes are the most dangerous and disrupt the playing as musicians traipse in and out all night.
What for? In the UK the police have already told the daft government that they are not going to bother cannabis smokers, even when it has been reclassified. Even in Norn'Ireland the peelers don't bother too much.
In the Republic, the Garda are all too stoned to worry about drug users.
I am talking about cannabis here, nothing dangerous like valium.
I for one, wouldn't go near any of that stuff.
And I have not lost my sense of humour Duijera, I assume you were joking.
There has been a huge amount of research, some of it sound and some not, looking for deleterious effects from smoking cannabis. And there have been a few statistical findings that deserve closer attention, such as the apparent link between adolescent cannabis use and later schizophrenia that KML brought to our attention some time ago. There are still problems in reconciling that alleged link with other data, but it looks like there's probably something to it.
The links above, however, are unscientific propaganda, mixing bits of scientific data with myth, hearsay, anecdote, exaggeration, hysteria and logical fallacy. I don't doubt that the vast majority of the people propagating this propaganda are well-meaning. They're just very, very badly (and intentionally) misinformed.
For example, ...
"More than 120,000 people enter treatment per year for their primary marijuana addiction."
This number rose from very tiny to very large at the exact same time that "treatment" as an alternative to incarceration began to be offered to people charged with possession. This kind of utterly bogus "information" makes it nearly impossible to have an intelligent public conversation about drug policy and helps perpetuate the inhumane and hugely expensive "War on Drugs."
Tobacco companies...hmmm, aren't they the ones that get sued and have to pay out billions in compensation through global class actions? Are these the same ones that claim that smoking is health?
Well, I guess, if large multinational drug companies can get sued and have to pay compensation for the adverse affects of medicinal drugs that they claim are safe, and tobacco companies do as well, then I suppose it is within the realms of possibility that those who recommend and sell cannabis claiming that it is safe, run the same risk eventually if it can be proved that it is unsafe.
Even if it was proved absolutely safe, I still wouldn't recommend it to my kids, or others.
Some people might. Why I don't know.
And tobacco companies are thriving in the Far East, you don't think all those sporting events are being held there because of the climate. No, you can advertise tobacco there.
As for the companies being sued, that occurs now, years too late, so my original point about propaganda is sound.
Now do not misinterpret me, I am against drugs, all for alternative medicine. So I take Feverfew, Ginko Biloba, Cod Liver Oil, Garlic Oil, Glucosamine Sulphate, Evening Primrose Oil, EPA Fish Oil, Ginseng and cannabis.
Pity they're not all legal.
I guess if cannabis does you harm in the long term, you might have a legal action against your supplier. I'm sure evidence could be found to support your case which a court would find believeable on the balance of probabilities.
Good luck with it all.
"Withdrawing one's labour, going on strike, is not legal in the UK or Ireland."
That's the first I've heard of that. Even ould Mrs T couldn't legislate against unions organising strikes.
Yes, secondary picketing is no longer allowed and there have always been organisations such as The Police where there is a "No Strike" agreement (either voluntary or imposed). However, striking itself is not illegal but very foolish if you're not part of a union.
If it isn't legal, bliss (and I see there is some discrepancy in opinion there), it probably means, doesn't it, that you can get sued to the hilt if you do go on strike. Being illegal only increases that likelihood doesn't it?
Same as dope sellers, I would imagine. If they're selling something that's illegal *and* it can be shown (on the balance of probabilities) that it has caused damage, couldn't they get sued big time?
It'd be enough to drive them to drink!
The laws governing strikes were passed some 73 years before Mrs T, in 1906 to be precise. There are immunities from being sued, but after 12 weeks you can be dismissed without access to the industrial courts.
The serfs of Europe are the UK, Ireland and amazingly Poland where Mrs T championed trade unions.
I could have sworn that BB was just spouting nonsense again
# Posted on June 2nd 2008 by benhall.1
I freely concede the point Benhall . However when I take the subject seriously I try to know what I am talking about.
I represent people everyday at work. The Civil Service pay me (poorly) but I spend 100% of my time doing union work. Unlike most Full Time Paid Officials, I try to know what I am about when dealing with peoples' livelihoods. Hence I tend to represent at tribunals, rather than officials, because I actually care.
Just read the link, Benhall, very useful. Much of this can be found on the stuff about the Trade Union Freedom Bill, a private members bill which is unlikely to be heard.
I read something like this in yesterday's paper. They were talking about a serious habit. If you ate that many "Cornflakes" it would probably have the same effect.
It does say however that it cuts down on aggression. Should have met me before I became mellow.
well,Bliss,i did hear that young mr cameron on the radio a few weeks back threatening to 'toughen up' (anti)striking legislation if he were to be in charge.
it was at the time of the dispute at the Grangemouth refinery to do with workers' pensions.
i remember thinking at the time that i would dearly love to compare the pension provisions of the refinery's directors with those and their work force...and mr cameron's.
re the effects of drugs on sessions,the most deleterious i've ever observed is alcohol.
Yep. Don't drink is probably the best advice, but I guess if people do to excess, because it is legal, and you know the adverse affects, hey, the consequences might be all yours.
Cannabis, etc - if they're illegal and there is evidence that they're unsafe, and suppliers say that it is quite safe, then the consequences might be the suppliers.
Then again, they don't often have business cards do they. Not the ones they use for that anyway.
Five jays per day for ten years?! My informants tell me that’s about ten times the normal evening’s serving. If you had the equivalent amount of alcohol every day for ten years, you’d be in even worse shape. Not to mention that fifteen subjects in an epidemiological study is far too small to draw any confident conclusions. Also, I could never respect a publication that has published any of my own work.
Well said Bob, we need to keep things in perspective here.
Meanwhile there have been 1,400 drug related killings in Mexico this year as the drug war lords fight it out. Making it legal would put a stop to all that.
But then, multi-nationals need wars as there is loads of money to be made. So they invented two unwinnable wars to last for ever, the war against drugs and the war against terrorism.
The effects of drugs on sessions
The effects of drugs on sessions
I've heard that quite a few players of renown and quality are big into certain drugs these days, particularly cocaine. I've noticed sometimes certain people are nice people and easy to get along with but then other times they become arrogant to the point where they ignore people they know. I've noticed that at these times the people look a bit intense as if they're on cocaine.
So am I alone here or is there a problem with cocaine and other drugs in sessions these days?
Are any of you prepared to admit to knowing people who regularly take drugs before or during sessions or indeed are any of you actually willing to say you take drugs? I'm not really talking about cannabis here cos loads of people do it quite openly. As far as I know cocaine, speed and E are the main hard drugs of choice.
I know this is a bit controversial but I think it's an important subject cos it worries me that some very talented trad musicians might be addicted to cocaine and not realise what assholes they're becoming!!!
# Posted on May 28th 2008 by Worldwide Pants
Re: The effects of drugs on sessions
What other people like to do in their sessions is none of your business, quite frankly. As far as I'm concerned, sessions are made by the musicians for the musicians to make music, and they're free to shape it in any way they please, just as they are free to choose how they spend any other night out with their friends. You wouldn't go up to a group of unknown people in the pub and tell them they should change their topic of conversation or stop taking their drug of choice, would you? Well maybe you would, but I wouldn't expect them to say "oh ok then, you're right, thanks, will do". Can't wait to hear what the session.org preachers have to say about this one (yawn).
# Posted on May 28th 2008 by Dow
Re: The effects of drugs on sessions
I do take your point about people becoming antisocial on drugs though. That's really annoying. If that annoys you then I guess you just have to respond by not socialising with them.
# Posted on May 28th 2008 by Dow
Re: The effects of drugs on sessions
One or two of the session pubs I go to have dire warnings posted about the illegality of using or dealing in drugs on the premises. You will correctly surmise that said pubs tend to be in certain city areas where there are, or have been, problems.
Speaking for myself, I have never been aware of any illegal substance use in any of the pub sessions I've been to in England or Ireland.
# Posted on May 28th 2008 by lazyhound
Re: The effects of drugs on sessions
"I've noticed sometimes certain people are nice people and easy to get along with but then other times they become arrogant to the point where they ignore people they know"
Maybe sometimes you're OK to them and then other times you're an irritating git. Or maybe it's The Drugs.
# Posted on May 28th 2008 by Bren
Re: The effects of drugs on sessions
The only drug I use on sessions is the music. Ah, and coffee sometimes.
# Posted on May 28th 2008 by s.g.
Re: The effects of drugs on sessions
Glucosamine is the drug of choice where I play.
# Posted on May 28th 2008 by P-K
Re: The effects of drugs on sessions
Beer is my drug of choice, playing or not.
# Posted on May 28th 2008 by leoj
Re: The effects of drugs on sessions
Where I play, the establishment openly peddles drugs ... by the pint
# Posted on May 28th 2008 by llig leahcim
Re: The effects of drugs on sessions
doh, beet me to it leoj
# Posted on May 28th 2008 by llig leahcim
Re: The effects of drugs on sessions
I used to take coke but then moved on to Pepsi. Now it's just orange juice.
# Posted on May 28th 2008 by Key Maniac Lad
Re: The effects of drugs on sessions
Seriously though I did used to know some players who did snort lines of coke in the loos. Yeah, sure they payed faster and more intensely and all that. But snorting lines in the toilets. Fux ache. How sordid.
# Posted on May 28th 2008 by Key Maniac Lad
Re: The effects of drugs on sessions
they *played* faster
# Posted on May 28th 2008 by Key Maniac Lad
Re: The effects of drugs on sessions
God knows if you snort coke you pay faster too.
# Posted on May 28th 2008 by leoj
Re: The effects of drugs on sessions
As Llig says, alcohol is readily available and many musicians will head outside for some fresh air and a little nicotine or some other substances. Actually, doing the latter is far less obvious these days now that there's a smoking ban. It's now accepted that people will leave the pub for a smoke.
Of course, there will be some musicians who are addicted to harder or less socially acceptable drugs but I'd guess these would be in the minority. More likely to be found among "perfomers" than the average session musician although I know that full time musicans and members of bands also have nights off when the can just "join in" for a tune.
Dow says
"What other people like to do in their sessions is none of your business, quite frankly."
Well, the problem is that such activities are still illegal and if musicians are "busted" then this might have a detrimental effect on the future of a session. The landlord might consider that his licence is more important than the music.
Most police officers (I'm sure this is still the case) will turn a blind eye to people using cannabis and other softer drugs especially if the culprits are otherwise respectable "middle class" citizens (Most session musicians/traddies/folkies in general are these days!!! For good or ill........)
However, I'm sure they'll take a much harder line (Play on words not intentional) with the likes of cocaine and so on. I'm sure this can't be good for the music in the long run.
# Posted on May 28th 2008 by Johannes J
Re: The effects of drugs on sessions
You may well be right and it may well not be good for the music in the long run, but what are you going to do? Tell them off?! Tell them that they have a responsibility to the music and other musicians, and that if their session ceases to happen because of their actions then they have done the music community a disservice? Please, gimme a break! If this stuff offends you then the answer is simple: 1) don't be friends with those people and 2) start going to a different session.
# Posted on May 28th 2008 by Dow
Re: The effects of drugs on sessions
Of course, I'm not going preach to them and it wouldn't be my place to do so....
...Unless it was MY PUB (being the owner), of course, or MY/OUR session and these were visiting or irregular musicians. Again, there would also have to be a general consensus of feeling in this regard.
However, in most other circumstances, I'd agree with your advice...
1) don't be friends with those people and 2) start going to a different session.
# Posted on May 28th 2008 by Johannes J
Re: The effects of drugs on sessions
Personally I couldn't care less what sh!te people wanted to put into their bodies if that's what they wanted to do. Why they want to do it is their business.
But taking up the point JohnJ made. Our landlord Con at the Blythe is a great guy, a one in a million brilliant landlord. But he is an old school Irish pub governor. If some session players were to be snorting up in the bogs and he found out....end of session. How clever is that?
# Posted on May 28th 2008 by Key Maniac Lad
Re: The effects of drugs on sessions
Well, this certainly clears the "Why do these heck do all these drunk and stoned folks play so fast?" question up. I mean, normally I get a bit slower and more relaxed after a pint or two, but now I see how it works.
"Excuse me Mr. Blow Jangles, but I think you want the Rave, that's down the street, listen for the DJs spinning House music and those crazy kids with the day-glo pacifiers in their mouths."
In all seriousness, it should be a free world, go do what you like as long as you're only hurting yourself. To adress the question directly, the hardest thing I've seen at our sessions is the bodhran player's noggin. I can't imagine this is a huge, wide-spread issue. As musicians I'm sure we have a slightly higher percentage of hard drug use among our ranks than the rest of the population, but I can't imagine it's an epidemic or anything. All of the folks I play with are lovely, kind, friendly, boring family people with regular jobs, children, spouses, etc.
# Posted on May 28th 2008 by SWFL Fiddler
Re: The effects of drugs on sessions
I suppose drug use is a fact of life anywhere....not just sessions. Professionally, it has been a problem in the past where staff-or worse in one case superiors had access to the stuff. When they were on a roll you couldn't keep up with them...the bounced from situation to situation never resolving things and became God-awefully nasty to the point of violence on the way down or when things became frustrating.
That's why I got involved in ITM... a totally different avocation. Most of the places I've been, strongest thing there was Guiness or Smithwicks. On the other hand, I was at one pub with a session in the Northwest of Ireland-Herself would not let me play in thankfully- where several patrons appeared to be more influenced by recreational substances resulting in a row in the street.
I suppose I am more concerned about younger musicians using beta blockers and such to enhance performance/calm down. Very common here in the states.
# Posted on May 28th 2008 by zippydw
Re: The effects of drugs on sessions
Dow says
"What other people like to do in their sessions is none of your business, quite frankly. As far as I'm concerned, sessions are made by the musicians for the musicians to make music, and they're free to shape it in any way they please"
Dow, if you really believe this then that means you have no problem with a terrible musician coming in and ruining a session for a bunch of good-natured musicians. No difference between an out of time bodhran player ruining a session and a coked-up tune player ruining it cos they act arrogantly.
I totally agree that people should be free to do whatever the hell they want, so long as it doesn't detrimentally effect others. The problem with coke-heads is that they really detrimentally effect people around them.
It's well known that coke makes people arrogant and self-centred. I do tend to avoid people who are in a coked up state, yet I do think it's genuinely sad that some really good musicians who are actually nice people when they're not on coke don't seem to realise that they are being really anti-social.
I've only noticed this with a few people but I wonder is it becoming more widespread.
Regarding alcohol, of course it can be problematic too but cocaine brings out another side in people altogether that just really messes up the social nature of sessions.
# Posted on May 28th 2008 by Worldwide Pants
Re: The effects of drugs on sessions
http://www.thesession.org/tunes/display/20
http://www.thesession.org/tunes/display/188
http://www.thesession.org/tunes/display/388
http://www.thesession.org/tunes/display/1023
and so on.
"A Snort of Coke" will never catch on as a session tune.
# Posted on May 28th 2008 by Johannes J
Re: The effects of drugs on sessions
Maybe I'm missing something here, but why would you want to go to sessions populated by "alleged" [and I do mean alleged] coke users? And, aside from doing lines on the table, how do you know, I mean really know, they're "using"? Seems problematic to me. There are lots of things that can make people hyper, depressed, agitated or otherwise and make "nice people" into "not nice" people sometimes -- things like life, an annoying spouse, bad traffic, a few pints too many, thyroid conditions, etc.
This whole topic [if that's what it is] seems somewhat odd to put it mildly. But each to their own. Frankly, !@£$%^&*(), maybe it would be worrying more about the quality of the tunes or your own playing, the pace, or whatever -- and less about the personal lives of fellow musicians.
If people want to screw with their heads, that's their business. It might annoy you, but it's not your business. Everyone has a right to their own lives, as a therapist once sagely said.
# Posted on May 28th 2008 by mtodd
Re: The effects of drugs on sessions
I'm with Dave Frisbee on this. All the people who say what someone puts in their bodies is none of your business seem to be the same ones who say a session is just a social gathering with a bunch of mates who just happen to play music. Strange contradiction here. Well I don't want to be mates with a load of drugged up arrogant loudmouths.
# Posted on May 28th 2008 by Key Maniac Lad
Re: The effects of drugs on sessions
Exactly, so don't be mates with them. What's your point??
# Posted on May 28th 2008 by Dow
Re: The effects of drugs on sessions
"Dow, if you really believe this then that means you have no problem with a terrible musician coming in and ruining a session for a bunch of good-natured musicians. No difference between an out of time bodhran player ruining a session and a coked-up tune player ruining it cos they act arrogantly."
How ridiculous. How on earth did you get that from my post?
# Posted on May 28th 2008 by Dow
Re: The effects of drugs on sessions
Agreed Key, but why not then simply choose another session where you don't have these idiots?
Sometimes abandoning ship is the best route. There's always more good music where that came from surely.
And on a scale of 1-10, I suspect bad intonation or timing is more of a threat to an enjoyable night of music playing than cocaine will ever be....
# Posted on May 28th 2008 by mtodd
Re: The effects of drugs on sessions
"Sometimes abandoning ship is the best route."
Agreed, but no-one has yet commented on my earlier point... although I'm sure Danny would agree with me...
i.e. What do you do if they come to your session (where the majority of regulars don't particularly welcome this sort of behaviour)?
# Posted on May 28th 2008 by Johannes J
Re: The effects of drugs on sessions
Drugs are common at my local sessions. And I don't mean the pints, shots, and occasional toke. I'm talking the hard stuff, like methyltrexate, coumidin, indocin, imitrex, celebrex, lexapro, and even chemo. Not to mention massive hits of ibuprofen, arnica, and preparation H.
We're just a bunch of broken old gits in pain. It takes a whole pharmacy just to regain movement enough to play.
Seriously, all my session mates are good friends. If one of them had a drug problem, I'd have a gentle talk with them.
# Posted on May 28th 2008 by Will CPT
Re: The effects of drugs on sessions
I think we need a bit more information here. Are these drug users the majority or minority? Are they regulars or visitors? Are they snorting discreetly in the loos or at the session table blatantly in front of the landlord?
# Posted on May 28th 2008 by Dow
Re: The effects of drugs on sessions
I wonder what the effects of drugs are on the session site,we sometimes get some pretty wacky statements,are the people that make theses statements out of their heads,on cocaineor some other drug.Dick Miles
# Posted on May 28th 2008 by dickens metrognome
Re: The effects of drugs on sessions
And are they friends of yours?
# Posted on May 28th 2008 by Dow
Re: The effects of drugs on sessions
My point is if, as some people here claim, sessions are all about the people, then sessions with arrogant mouthie druggies is not fulfilling that basic claim.
Of course I wouldn't go near a session like that.
# Posted on May 28th 2008 by Key Maniac Lad
Re: The effects of drugs on sessions
Dick, have you never read my postings!
# Posted on May 28th 2008 by strayaway
Re: The effects of drugs on sessions
LOL, I think some of the whackiness that happens on this site is because people have fallen *off* their meds....
# Posted on May 28th 2008 by Will CPT
Re: The effects of drugs on sessions
Dow,I have never met anyone from this site apart from Ling Pupa,who I did a few gigs with.
Ling Pupa has been very quiet for along time,I dont think anyone can accuse him of making wacky statements,and I dont think he considers me as a friend.
# Posted on May 28th 2008 by dickens metrognome
Re: The effects of drugs on sessions
My question wasn't directed at you, dickens. We cross-posted.
# Posted on May 28th 2008 by Dow
Re: The effects of drugs on sessions
I don't believe that this thread is for real. All we seem to worry about is the effect drugged up musicians may have on the session, but what about that young fellow today starting a life sentence for shooting his mate and turning him into a vegetable all because he could not repay a drug debt. These type of horror stories crop up every few days or so and if the recreational drug users were to revert back to good old fashioned porter, then maybe there would be no role for the drug barons who might then go out of business.
# Posted on May 28th 2008 by Bannerman
Re: The effects of drugs on sessions
And what about how it affects people who are on them? Someone I know got a gun pointed at his temple through his car window while stopped at the lights, by some irate cracked-up yardie whom he had just cut up, driving through Brixton. Coke is ok? yeah right.
# Posted on May 28th 2008 by Key Maniac Lad
Re: The effects of drugs on sessions
Well, I never witnessed drug use in a session [music session of course!] but some of my friends do coke. I personally wouldn't touch the stuff. Cigarettes and alcohol do it for me. I don't have a problem with what they're doing yet. If it became a bad habit with my close friends, I would talk to them [I have done before] about it. At the end of the day, its an irresponsible thing to do and someone else's foolish choice. I've no problem with drug addicts so long as I don't end up on the receiving end of their behavior [and I don't just mean directly.] If that happens, then its different. But if they cause no trouble around me, I'm happy.
# Posted on May 28th 2008 by PaddyCmusic
Re: The effects of drugs on sessions
I must have lived a very sheltered life, but on reflection this whole scenario could explain the attitude of many people I met over the year. At the time I just thought that they were a shower of 'wrist merchants'
# Posted on May 28th 2008 by Free Reed
Re: The effects of drugs on sessions
Dow at the end of his first post: "Can't wait to hear what the session.org preachers have to say about this one (yawn)."
Oh, so we ought not to express any dissenting opinion of Dow's "libertarian" attitudes for fear of sarcastic retribution. Libertarian fascism. What a curious ideology.
# Posted on May 28th 2008 by Key Maniac Lad
Re: The effects of drugs on sessions
"I've heard that quite a few players of renown and quality are big into certain drugs these days, particularly cocaine."
"These days"??
This has been going on forever! Perhaps the Celtic Tiger has made a number of these illicit substances more accessible in Ireland than they were before, but let's not pretend it's a new thing to traditional music.
If I have my rumors straight, a number of the better bands in the 70's were big into that stuff. At least one of my favorite albums from that time period was (unsurprisingly) recorded under the influence (as much was admitted to me by one of the performers); the problem hasn't gone away either. I can think of a handful of good trad musicians that are still known cokeheads. I've seen a great fiddler come through town, and do lines inbetween sets (it was obvious, and didn't improve the music at all). In fact, I'm listening to one such known-cokehead's album right now.
Yes, I think it's irresponsible, but for that matter so is drinking inordinate quantities of alcohol--and many of those who decry pot/cocaine are guilty of that (I'll own up myself). Let's keep it all in perspective. The critical thing is that your drug of choice not become a priority over the other things in your life--and those priorities do seem to have a way of getting out of hand.
In the end, some people feel that drugs or alcohol makes them play better (I respectfully disagree, mainly disputing the causality). But if drug use is interfering with their interpersonal relations (eg: making them behave like arseholes), then it's worth saying something to them. I've seen a few friendships (and livelihoods) fall apart over misplaced priorities like that.
# Posted on May 28th 2008 by Georgi
Re: The effects of drugs on sessions
What's really fun is pretending you are on drugs! An air would be on heroin, a jig would be a pint, a reel would be like cocopuffs, and a fling would be like a whitey of some kind. I think some recordings of incredible music had to be played by musicians on craic!
# Posted on May 28th 2008 by fedorastain
Re: The effects of drugs on sessions
I'd like to know how these people who play in sessions coked up can afford to splash out on Cocaine while it cripples me to have a session on drink. It's bad enough trying to save up for a decent instrument without throwing it up your nose.
# Posted on May 28th 2008 by upmine3
Re: The effects of drugs on sessions
I think there are three separate issues here.
Firstly, there's a widespread ignorance about the actual effects of psychotropic substances, some of which has been revealed during this discussion. How that ignorance is maintained is a subject often debated by those working in the field of drug use, but, symptomatic of populist viewpoints, bear in mind the poster's own statement that 'I've noticed that at these times the people look a bit intense as if they're on cocaine'. Well, believe me, looking 'intense' is not a universally recognised determinant of cocaine use.
Secondly, as Dow remarked earlier, but I'd like to reiterate, someone's use of a particular substance is their own affair (although a user cannot control how said use is viewed by others) until said use has deleterious effects on others. Taking cocaine or any stimulant with similar effects will not result in the ability to play faster, only in the individual's belief or feeling that s/he is capable of playing faster and would probably enjoy the experience. Those listening to the musical results are more likely to recognise the effects of clumsiness rather than a new-found ability to play faster.
Lastly, the incidence of drug-related crime is substantially lower worldwide than all the crimes and misdemeanours related to alcohol use (many of which, in Ireland in particular, have gone unreported over the decades because of an unhealthy police attitude towards drunkenness, not least in terms of marital abuse).
For the record I was responsible for NHS drugs education strategy for a significant part of Central London for several years in the 1990s.
# Posted on May 28th 2008 by Floss the Tethers
Re: The effects of drugs on sessions
drugs education strategy?
What, you showed people the correct way to shoot up and stuff?
Nah, good balanced post Geoff. The trouble is, the deleterious effect is unfortunately frequently evident.
# Posted on May 28th 2008 by Key Maniac Lad
Re: The effects of drugs on sessions
I use different drugs for different tune types... So I try to find sessions that play... say for instance... all reels.
# Posted on May 28th 2008 by McCracken
Re: The effects of drugs on sessions
So the dealer is sitting in on the session. All eyes on the bloke with the most expensive instrument.
# Posted on May 28th 2008 by upmine3
Re: The effects of drugs on sessions
Years ago i was in a band where most of the people liked the wacky backy . After a few sets of this they would be saying how well we were playing and I would be thinking no we are not we sound crap .
So I stuck to alcohol. Still sound crap sometimes though but I know its me .
# Posted on May 28th 2008 by bazouki dave and the real tooty flutey
Re: The effects of drugs on sessions
(Middle-aged man stands before a stove and holds up a shaky egg.)
Man (dispassionately): This is your session.
(Middle-aged man cracks open the shaky egg, spilling its soon sizzling filling into a super-heated frying pan.)
Man: This is your session on drugs.
The Dude (like friggin mangled): Whoa. Check out like the patterns it's making, like in the pan? And like check out the patterns in the A part of The Mason's Like Apron? Like the universe could be all in that pan, or in the A part of that tune?
# Posted on May 28th 2008 by NEW Pure Drop® Ear Canal Oil
Re: The effects of drugs on sessions
We need to put that guy to work, just stand at that sink and go one shaky egg after the other. Crack. Crack. Crack.
"Can I take a break now?"
"Get back to work! You got a few million more to go there, pally."
# Posted on May 29th 2008 by SWFL Fiddler
Re: The effects of drugs on sessions
One of the lessons I have learned about myself after playing music for far too many years is that I enjoy playing music more when I am completely sober. I usually wait to drink a beer or two after I get home from whatever jam session I have just been participating in.
In 1989, I was taking a political science class at a local university. The professor who was teaching the class liked to start each class period with a discussion of the current issues of the day. One day the topic the professor choose was the so-called "War On Drugs". The professor asked what we thought about the "War On Drugs" and you could have heard the proverbial pin drop because the silence was so deafening. After the silence had stretched out for several seconds, I half-jokingly, half-seriously suggested that perhaps the government should legalize all drugs. My comment was what it took to break the ice because it seemed as if every member of that class (approximately twenty people) had something to say on this subject. It was as if the dam had burst and the flood of comments was going to drown out everybody (including the professor).
# Posted on May 29th 2008 by fauxcelt
Re: The effects of drugs on sessions
I did know of a fine musician, who was also reputed to enjoy the odd recreational narcotic in his spare time, and his advice was never to record anything you were playing whilst under the influence, as you were likely to be severely disappointed upon playing it back whilst sober.
Personally I can't even cope with the third pint, either the volume or the effect it has on me, but perhaps that's just old age.
# Posted on May 29th 2008 by Guernsey Pete
Re: The effects of drugs on sessions
To avoid disappointment, whatever you record under the influence play back and listen to under a similar influence.
# Posted on May 29th 2008 by leoj
Re: The effects of drugs on sessions
Many of the great musicians you hear on recordings are cokeheads, and no I'm not mentioning any names. The point is, they're doing it all the time with their mates when they go to sessions - it's just normal for them. And then they go ahead and make great music. That's not to say they couldn't make great music without the drugs of course, but this whole thing about drugs having a bad effect on the music is a crock of sh*te. I've never heard of these musicians going out and robbing someone at gunpoint to feed their habit, or ruining every session they go to with their bad attitude. In fact they seem to be really popular and have heaps of friends. And the rest is absolutely none of my business - let them get on with it. Eventually they'll realise their bodies can't take it or whatever, but you've got to live your own life and discover that for yourself, not have some fuddy duddy preach a sermon to you about how "drugs are bad, period". That's just boring and pointless. It doesn't teach us anything we don't know already.
# Posted on May 29th 2008 by Dow
Re: The effects of drugs on sessions
Yes, some people have to learn such things for themselves. But they can serve as a cautionary tale for others, who learn as innocent bystanders. Seeing the effects of serious addiction up close in one of your friends can be enough to scare you smart.
# Posted on May 29th 2008 by Will CPT
Re: The effects of drugs on sessions
Or seeing the fatal effects of, say, alcohol, on a close relative, as I have. They may realise their bodies can't take it but by that time it may be too late. What a waste of life. All just to get an ephemeral buzz.
# Posted on May 29th 2008 by Key Maniac Lad
Re: The effects of drugs on sessions
body rhythms can effect how one plays as well.
when Iam feeling tired, I think the best thing to do is not to drink alcohol when Iam playing,I dont think smoking cannabis helps either.,whereas caffeine can help.its abit like driving a car really.
I think that to play well its important to be sober,not stoned,and feeling good in yourself.the same thing goes for practising.
Ialso think that the legalisation of all drugs [thus removing them from the hands of criminals]might be worth trying .Dick Miles
# Posted on May 29th 2008 by dickens metrognome
Re: The effects of drugs on sessions
http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/122845/report_100_of_irish_euros_
contain_cocaine.html
# Posted on May 29th 2008 by dafydd
Re: The effects of drugs on sessions
taking drugs has never helped anybody to play better.
being a good player depends upon three things, talent ,practice and a lot of listening.
if people are taking drugs in a session in a public place[publichouse]they are risking the whole stabilty of the session ,they are endangering the publicans licence,.They are risking ,spoiling the relationship between the landlord and the musicians,isnt the music the most important thing?DickMiles
# Posted on May 29th 2008 by dickens metrognome
Re: The effects of drugs on sessions
"taking drugs has never helped anybody to play better."
Is this a statement of fact? Do you have any proof of this? How do you know for sure that taking drugs has never helped anybody to play better?
Or has this just become a competition to see who can be the most sanctimonious or something?
Admit it, you've been reading the Daily Mail, haven't you?
# Posted on May 29th 2008 by Dow
Re: The effects of drugs on sessions
Amphetamines can help you cycle faster:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tom_Simpson
# Posted on May 29th 2008 by Key Maniac Lad
Re: The effects of drugs on sessions
I suppose it all comes back to the "Every session is different" argument which many people here (I know this in relation to other discussions) don't seem to be prepared to grasp.
While I agree that we should "Live and let live" wherever possible if not going as far as adapting our behaviour to "snorting" the stuff ourselves...(It's one thing playing the repertoire but we don't have to use cocaine), there are still several venues, locations, social situations etc where this type of behaviour is not acceptable. Therefore, drug users should respect others and their point of view as well.
What might be acceptable "down under" these days isn't necessarily the case in all places back home.. Not even in your own native Northumbria.
Anyway, I wish Zina was still here. I know what she would say on the matter.... *snort*
# Posted on May 29th 2008 by Johannes J
Re: The effects of drugs on sessions
I suppose if you're a flute/whistle druggie, snorting would help your circular breathing, because before too long you wouldn't have a nasal septum.
But never mind, the NHS would pay for restorative work, as it would for all the numerous health problems you get if you're a druggie. Let's face it why should you as a druggie pay for it? you need all your money for your next score. Let all the sap tax-payers pay for your medical problems. After all, they're fit enough, mentally and physically, to go and work to pay for it. You need all your strength for your drugs. And anyway, it's none of their business what you do in your session - apart from paying for the mess you leave behind of course...........
# Posted on May 29th 2008 by Key Maniac Lad
Re: The effects of drugs on sessions
I really hate musicians. Many of them end up needing treatment for RSI, and I have to pay for it as a tax payer, even though it was their stupid hobby that caused the RSI in the first place.
# Posted on May 29th 2008 by Dow
Re: The effects of drugs on sessions
I particularly hate musicians who take hard drugs. It's obvious that they'll eventually become addicted, and find themselves on the slippery slope. When they're addicted they will do anything to get their fix, those musicians. They mug our grandmothers and grandfathers on the street for the small change in their pockets. They break into our parents' house and rob them of all the things they worked so hard to buy. They also rape our children and stuff like that. They're pure evil. Bring back the death sentence.
# Posted on May 29th 2008 by Dow
Re: The effects of drugs on sessions
Now you're talking. But why stop at the death sentence? Torture them first by making them sit in at a session with drug addicts clacking spoons and shaking eggs.
# Posted on May 29th 2008 by Key Maniac Lad
Re: The effects of drugs on sessions
Or just make them sit through a Blythe session for a similar effect
# Posted on May 29th 2008 by Dow
Re: The effects of drugs on sessions
Dow,my own experience.
I repeat those people that take any illegal drug ,or get plastered on alcohol while playing and think they are playing better are only kidding themselves
.Dow the answer[imo] is not to bring back the death sentence ,neither is it to turn a blind eye,but it might be worth trying legalising all drugs,so that heroin addicts get clean needles,and dont have to commit crime to find money,for the price of exorbitant blackmarket prices,the government then takes control of a social problem,it can at the same time run a propaganda campaign through television [etc]against the use of drugs.
In the meantime these drugs are illegal,and anyone who takes drugs during a session[or even smokes dope on the premises ,this includes beer gardens and smoking zones is endangering the publican and the session.DickMiles
# Posted on May 29th 2008 by dickens metrognome
Re: The effects of drugs on sessions
No, that would be just plain cruelty to addicts.
# Posted on May 29th 2008 by Key Maniac Lad
Re: The effects of drugs on sessions
No fair using logic to deal with the issues, dickens, this is something government related we're talking about here.
# Posted on May 29th 2008 by SWFL Fiddler
Re: The effects of drugs on sessions
oxymorons:
military intelligence
governmental logic
tasteful bodhran playing
OK, I'm just teasing on the last one. I've actually heard tasteful bodhran playing, but the other two? Still no evidence.
# Posted on May 29th 2008 by SWFL Fiddler
Re: The effects of drugs on sessions
Your own experience? Wow, dickens, you must have met every single musician who has ever taken drugs in the whole wide world. That's amazing!
# Posted on May 29th 2008 by Dow
Re: The effects of drugs on sessions
" I particularly hate musicians who take hard drugs. .........They're pure evil. Bring back the death sentence."
Nobody was suggesting that all drug users fall into this category and certainly not those who play traditional music in pubs.
However, as you will probably agree, there are all varieties of people who frequent the traditional (and other) music scenes.
They aren't all nice to know by any means although the less savoury ones are usually in the minority.
You wouldn't buy a used car from some of them, leave your spouse or partner alone with them, lend them money, let them into your house and so on (Same in all walks of life).
Depending on the circumstances, however, you might happily tolerate some or all of them in certain situations. You would make a choice though whether or not to welcome them into your session with open arms or go out of your way to join them in their sessions.
The same would apply with known drug users who wouldn't bother me too much, incidentally, as long as they kept this activity separate from that of playing music and were discreet about their habits.
# Posted on May 29th 2008 by Johannes J
Re: The effects of drugs on sessions
Dow,please tell me of musicians whose performances have been improved by the ue of drugs.
drug use has cut short many musicians potential,JimiHendrix,TubbyHayes,JanisJoplin,Charlie Parker, BrianJones. to name a few.
I feel I have aresponsibility to younger musicians not to encourage them to use drugs.
to quote from the house of the rising sun.
go tell my baby sister not to do as Ihave done but to shun that house inNewOrleans they call the RisingSun.
Dow ,Ive been there done itworn the t shirt and Idont recommend it,now cop on.
# Posted on May 29th 2008 by dickens metrognome
Re: The effects of drugs on sessions
Oh, dear, this thread gets worse and worse.
It's not just the ignorance about the effects of psychotropic drugs, and the sheer prejudice against those who use(d) them which continues to stagger me, but the abundance of blanket statements (and the fact that certain posters don't seem to comprehend Dow's irony - I understand it as I've often done Dow's ironing).
Sure, septum perforation can occur through prolonged use of cocaine, but you have to be sniffing a hell of a lot to reach that state. And the chance of incurring such damage as a result of snorting amphetamine sulphate is extremely low and just about as high as regularly using snuff.
Danny's rant about the NHS paying for the treatment of drug users' health problems completely ignores the fact that far more money is spent on dealing with those who over-eat, those who self-harm, those who drive dangerously and those who've become addicted to prescription medicines.
Then there are the ridiculous comments about whether or not people would have been better or not musicians without the use of drugs declared illegal by whichever state they happened to inhabit or whether their use of whatever substances they were using cut short their artistic potential. There's no arguing that a few musicians have died as a result of overdosing, but the overwhelming majority lived to tell the tale for a significant time longer.
We've absolutely no way of knowing whether Hendrix might have recorded a better album than 'Electric Ladyland' if he'd lived longer, but we do have plenty of evidence that the creativity of, say, Miles Davis was unsullied by substance use.
Janis Joplin certainly did overdose on smack, but regarding the four other musicians cited by Dickens:
1) the coroner's report on Brian Jones was death by misadventure;
2) Tubby Hayes died during heart surgery;
3) the official cause of Charlie Parker's death was pneumonia and a bleeding ulcer;
4) the cause of Hendrix's death is still unclear, though the doctor who first attended him suggested that he had died from asphyxiation as a result of choking on his own vomit (and gave an over abundance of red wine as the source).
In other words, none of these four's deaths was proved to be due to their drug use.
I'm not sure why Dickens cites ' The House of the Rising Sun' since there are absolutely no references to drug use in any of the recorded versions. Indeed, there's still plenty of doubt as to whether the house in question served illicit booze, was a brothel or a prison.
I rest my case, m'lud.
# Posted on May 29th 2008 by Floss the Tethers
Re: The effects of drugs on sessions
Yes Mac, it is pretty sad, both the misconceptions and the missed irony. As a smart-ass I find the latter the most sad of all.
The reason why there's crime related to drugs is because it's illegal. Illegal drugs are just like legal ones. Use with care, caution and common sense, if you must use them all.
Or don't. People use the legal ones irresponsibly too, sad to say. The moral of the story, in my opinion at least, is that people will do whatever they want to do to themselves, you can't legislate that out of existence. Scare tactics and preaching doesn't work either. What can you do? Hope the vast majority of folks are responsible from being raised properly, keep a close eye on the sociopaths, and stop throwing people in jail for doing things to themselves.
Oh great, now I'm preaching. We now return you to your regularly scheduled nonsense and smart-assery.
# Posted on May 29th 2008 by SWFL Fiddler
Re: The effects of drugs on sessions
>Danny's rant about the NHS paying for the treatment of drug users' health problems completely ignores the fact that far more money is spent on dealing with those who over-eat, those who self-harm, those who drive dangerously and those who've become addicted to prescription medicines.
Ignore? Just because I didn't mention those. The discussion wasn't about driving fast cars, overeating and self-harming. I hate those as well, BTW.
Dow's irony was not missed on me...I just...erm...completely ignored it......
# Posted on May 29th 2008 by Key Maniac Lad
Re: The effects of drugs on sessions
Dow's irony was not *lost* on me...either.....
# Posted on May 29th 2008 by Key Maniac Lad
Re: The effects of drugs on sessions
There's no doubt anyone with the screen name "Key Maniac Lad" is going to have a sense of irony. Well, that and the story about the box in the bathroom the other day.
# Posted on May 29th 2008 by SWFL Fiddler
Re: The effects of drugs on sessions
Whoa dude, sorry, I'll never call you "Mac" again, though I think like Floss the Teathers better anyway.
# Posted on May 29th 2008 by SWFL Fiddler
Re: The effects of drugs on sessions
Hmm, what about Gio Waffles?
# Posted on May 30th 2008 by Key Maniac Lad
Re: The effects of drugs on sessions
Double blind tests have concluded that at least one drug, propranolol, tends to improve the performance of some musicians. That’s why so many performers of all sorts use it. Why is it so hard to accept that some recreational drugs might have a similar effect? Just because there might be deleterious effects doesn’t mean there can’t be beneficial ones also.
Back before the alcohol and tobacco companies bought marijuana prohibition, there was beginning to be some serious consideration of the effects of marijuana on music and artistic performance. As far as I know, no real science was done on the subject (the US govt effectively prohibits virtually all marijuana research that looks for benefits), but there were interesting anecdotal reports, not so much of outstanding performance as of personal breakthroughs in playing. Likewise with LSD.
[If you are not an adult, please avoid all recreational drugs.]
# Posted on May 30th 2008 by Bob himself
Re: The effects of drugs on sessions
"Dow,please tell me of musicians whose performances have been improved by the ue of drugs."
No, I won't. I don't have to, because I never made any claim that performances have been improved. I merely said that you cannot legitimately claim otherwise without proof. And please don't tell me to "cop on" when we're having a discussion. It's rude and insulting.
# Posted on May 30th 2008 by Dow
Re: The effects of drugs on sessions
I would say "Grass" really improves one's playing as it gives a lift and a heightened sense of the beauty of music.
Pollen, soap and all those make one more relaxed, relaxed enough to give a smoother performance.
The old "Lebanese Black" and such made you really get into the music "Man" and become totally absorbed with your excellent, wonderful playing. Unfortunately you could have been playing a different tune from the others at the table.
I would recommend good grass to anyone. Stay away from alcohol, as that is addictive and harmful, and obviously cigarettes are the most dangerous and disrupt the playing as musicians traipse in and out all night.
Not that we perform.
# Posted on May 30th 2008 by bodhran bliss
Re: The effects of drugs on sessions
Would you recommend getting a good lawyer too, bliss?
# Posted on May 30th 2008 by Duijera Dubh
Re: The effects of drugs on sessions
What for? In the UK the police have already told the daft government that they are not going to bother cannabis smokers, even when it has been reclassified. Even in Norn'Ireland the peelers don't bother too much.
In the Republic, the Garda are all too stoned to worry about drug users.
I am talking about cannabis here, nothing dangerous like valium.
I for one, wouldn't go near any of that stuff.
And I have not lost my sense of humour Duijera, I assume you were joking.
# Posted on May 31st 2008 by bodhran bliss
Re: The effects of drugs on sessions
Were you?
# Posted on May 31st 2008 by Duijera Dubh
Re: The effects of drugs on sessions
Certainly not. As a health freak, I stand behind my advice.
Avoid prescription drugs, alcohol, and hard drugs. Take cannabis as the healthy, natural alternative.
Besides, I am a very religious person. Man made beer and valium, God made grass. Who do you trust?
# Posted on May 31st 2008 by bodhran bliss
Re: The effects of drugs on sessions
I wouldn't recommend it to my kids, or others.
http://www.ohsinc.com/marijuana_THC_grass.htm
http://www.drug-rehabilitation-resource.com/Marijuana.html
http://members.optushome.com.au/~apfdfy/Gate.html
# Posted on May 31st 2008 by Duijera Dubh
Re: The effects of drugs on sessions
What a load of crap produced by the multi-national chemical firms to scare people of Cannabis, and get them hooked on serious prescription drugs.
I can give you a link to Philip Morris Company who have scientists telling you how healthy smoking is.
# Posted on June 1st 2008 by bodhran bliss
Re: The effects of drugs on sessions
There has been a huge amount of research, some of it sound and some not, looking for deleterious effects from smoking cannabis. And there have been a few statistical findings that deserve closer attention, such as the apparent link between adolescent cannabis use and later schizophrenia that KML brought to our attention some time ago. There are still problems in reconciling that alleged link with other data, but it looks like there's probably something to it.
The links above, however, are unscientific propaganda, mixing bits of scientific data with myth, hearsay, anecdote, exaggeration, hysteria and logical fallacy. I don't doubt that the vast majority of the people propagating this propaganda are well-meaning. They're just very, very badly (and intentionally) misinformed.
For example, ...
"More than 120,000 people enter treatment per year for their primary marijuana addiction."
This number rose from very tiny to very large at the exact same time that "treatment" as an alternative to incarceration began to be offered to people charged with possession. This kind of utterly bogus "information" makes it nearly impossible to have an intelligent public conversation about drug policy and helps perpetuate the inhumane and hugely expensive "War on Drugs."
# Posted on June 1st 2008 by Bob himself
Re: The effects of drugs on sessions
the apparent link between adolescent cannabis use and later schizophrenia
# Posted on June 1st 2008 by Bob himself
All together now and sing loudly;
"There's only two Bodhran Bliss's, two bodhran bliss's"
# Posted on June 2nd 2008 by bodhran bliss
Re: The effects of drugs on sessions
http://www.chycho.com/?q=US_drug_problem
# Posted on June 2nd 2008 by wolfbird
Re: The effects of drugs on sessions
Tobacco companies...hmmm, aren't they the ones that get sued and have to pay out billions in compensation through global class actions? Are these the same ones that claim that smoking is health?
Well, I guess, if large multinational drug companies can get sued and have to pay compensation for the adverse affects of medicinal drugs that they claim are safe, and tobacco companies do as well, then I suppose it is within the realms of possibility that those who recommend and sell cannabis claiming that it is safe, run the same risk eventually if it can be proved that it is unsafe.
Even if it was proved absolutely safe, I still wouldn't recommend it to my kids, or others.
Some people might. Why I don't know.
# Posted on June 2nd 2008 by Duijera Dubh
Re: The effects of drugs on sessions
The reason is it is much healthier than alcohol.
And tobacco companies are thriving in the Far East, you don't think all those sporting events are being held there because of the climate. No, you can advertise tobacco there.
As for the companies being sued, that occurs now, years too late, so my original point about propaganda is sound.
Now do not misinterpret me, I am against drugs, all for alternative medicine. So I take Feverfew, Ginko Biloba, Cod Liver Oil, Garlic Oil, Glucosamine Sulphate, Evening Primrose Oil, EPA Fish Oil, Ginseng and cannabis.
All natural, all healthy.
# Posted on June 2nd 2008 by bodhran bliss
Re: The effects of drugs on sessions
Pity they're not all legal.
I guess if cannabis does you harm in the long term, you might have a legal action against your supplier. I'm sure evidence could be found to support your case which a court would find believeable on the balance of probabilities.
Good luck with it all.
# Posted on June 2nd 2008 by Duijera Dubh
Re: The effects of drugs on sessions
Withdrawing one's labour, going on strike, is not legal in the UK or Ireland.
That doesn't mean it is wrong. Like most bad laws it is designed to favour multi-nationals and employers.
# Posted on June 2nd 2008 by bodhran bliss
Re: The effects of drugs on sessions
"Withdrawing one's labour, going on strike, is not legal in the UK or Ireland."
That's the first I've heard of that. Even ould Mrs T couldn't legislate against unions organising strikes.
Yes, secondary picketing is no longer allowed and there have always been organisations such as The Police where there is a "No Strike" agreement (either voluntary or imposed). However, striking itself is not illegal but very foolish if you're not part of a union.
# Posted on June 2nd 2008 by Johannes J
Re: The effects of drugs on sessions
If it isn't legal, bliss (and I see there is some discrepancy in opinion there), it probably means, doesn't it, that you can get sued to the hilt if you do go on strike. Being illegal only increases that likelihood doesn't it?
Same as dope sellers, I would imagine. If they're selling something that's illegal *and* it can be shown (on the balance of probabilities) that it has caused damage, couldn't they get sued big time?
It'd be enough to drive them to drink!
# Posted on June 2nd 2008 by Duijera Dubh
Re: The effects of drugs on sessions
I could have sworn that BB was just spouting nonsense again (
) but then I read this:
http://www.newstatesman.com/200103120014
Perhaps we should prevent session musicians from 'striking' when they don't like the pub?
# Posted on June 2nd 2008 by benhall.1
Re: The effects of drugs on sessions
Ok, it's maybe "effectively" illegal and a much less attractive route to take these days... I can't deny that.
# Posted on June 2nd 2008 by Johannes J
Re: The effects of drugs on sessions
The laws governing strikes were passed some 73 years before Mrs T, in 1906 to be precise. There are immunities from being sued, but after 12 weeks you can be dismissed without access to the industrial courts.
The serfs of Europe are the UK, Ireland and amazingly Poland where Mrs T championed trade unions.
# Posted on June 2nd 2008 by bodhran bliss
Re: The effects of drugs on sessions
I could have sworn that BB was just spouting nonsense again
# Posted on June 2nd 2008 by benhall.1
I freely concede the point Benhall
. However when I take the subject seriously I try to know what I am talking about.
I represent people everyday at work. The Civil Service pay me (poorly) but I spend 100% of my time doing union work. Unlike most Full Time Paid Officials, I try to know what I am about when dealing with peoples' livelihoods. Hence I tend to represent at tribunals, rather than officials, because I actually care.
# Posted on June 2nd 2008 by bodhran bliss
Re: The effects of drugs on sessions
Just read the link, Benhall, very useful. Much of this can be found on the stuff about the Trade Union Freedom Bill, a private members bill which is unlikely to be heard.
Unless the Tories get in next time.
# Posted on June 2nd 2008 by bodhran bliss
Re: The effects of drugs on sessions
What an ODD world we do live in indeed ...
# Posted on June 2nd 2008 by benhall.1
Re: The effects of drugs on sessions
Indeed. Labour had 11 years so far to amend some of these laws............
# Posted on June 2nd 2008 by bodhran bliss
Re: The effects of drugs on sessions
Some more evidence for the class action:
http://news.sbs.com.au/worldnewsaustralia/index.php?type=category&a=cannabis_shrinks_brain_volume_study_548416
http://news.sbs.com.au/worldnewsaustralia/pot_smokers_double_schizophrenia_risk_547412
(Might have to cut and paste the llinks)
# Posted on June 4th 2008 by Duijera Dubh
Re: The effects of drugs on sessions
http://www.bigpond.com/news/national/content/20080604/2264668.asp
# Posted on June 4th 2008 by Duijera Dubh
Re: The effects of drugs on sessions
I read something like this in yesterday's paper. They were talking about a serious habit. If you ate that many "Cornflakes" it would probably have the same effect.
It does say however that it cuts down on aggression. Should have met me before I became mellow.
# Posted on June 4th 2008 by bodhran bliss
Re: The effects of drugs on sessions
Don't choke on your cornflakes while you're reading it.
You won't be able to sue them. Or anyone else for that matter.
# Posted on June 4th 2008 by Duijera Dubh
Re: The effects of drugs on sessions
Just because you were wrong about employment law doesn't mean you have to take the hump.
As for suing Kellogg's, it has been done before. Someone once sued them because they got sun stroke.
# Posted on June 4th 2008 by bodhran bliss
Re: The effects of drugs on sessions
Wrong cause of action obviously.
Must have been a pipe dream.
# Posted on June 4th 2008 by Duijera Dubh
Re: 'tomorrow belongs to'... them
'Unless the Tories get in next time.'
well,Bliss,i did hear that young mr cameron on the radio a few weeks back threatening to 'toughen up' (anti)striking legislation if he were to be in charge.
it was at the time of the dispute at the Grangemouth refinery to do with workers' pensions.
i remember thinking at the time that i would dearly love to compare the pension provisions of the refinery's directors with those and their work force...and mr cameron's.
re the effects of drugs on sessions,the most deleterious i've ever observed is alcohol.
# Posted on June 4th 2008 by biggus dave
Re: The effects of drugs on sessions
Yep. Don't drink is probably the best advice, but I guess if people do to excess, because it is legal, and you know the adverse affects, hey, the consequences might be all yours.
Cannabis, etc - if they're illegal and there is evidence that they're unsafe, and suppliers say that it is quite safe, then the consequences might be the suppliers.
Then again, they don't often have business cards do they. Not the ones they use for that anyway.
# Posted on June 4th 2008 by Duijera Dubh
Re: The effects of drugs on sessions
In enlightened countries Cannabis is legal. As for serious hard drugs suppliers, certainly over here chemists need to be legal.
# Posted on June 4th 2008 by bodhran bliss
Re: The effects of drugs on sessions
Five jays per day for ten years?! My informants tell me that’s about ten times the normal evening’s serving. If you had the equivalent amount of alcohol every day for ten years, you’d be in even worse shape. Not to mention that fifteen subjects in an epidemiological study is far too small to draw any confident conclusions. Also, I could never respect a publication that has published any of my own work.
# Posted on June 4th 2008 by Bob himself
Re: The effects of drugs on sessions
Well said Bob, we need to keep things in perspective here.
Meanwhile there have been 1,400 drug related killings in Mexico this year as the drug war lords fight it out. Making it legal would put a stop to all that.
But then, multi-nationals need wars as there is loads of money to be made. So they invented two unwinnable wars to last for ever, the war against drugs and the war against terrorism.
And the money is rolling in.
# Posted on June 4th 2008 by bodhran bliss
Re: The effects of drugs on sessions
Drugged or not, if people respect session étiquette let them play.
# Posted on June 4th 2008 by Carabus
Re: The effects of drugs on sessions
Despite all that herbal medicine I am now off sick from work.
# Posted on June 5th 2008 by bodhran bliss
Re: The effects of drugs on sessions
What was the question again , man?
# Posted on June 6th 2008 by WallyWombat
Re: The effects of drugs on sessions
Hey man, here you go...
http://wideeyecinema.com/?p=106
# Posted on June 6th 2008 by wolfbird