I rented my first fiddle this week, and I'm having a blast with my eclectic repertoire of Goodnight Ladies and Twinkle, Twinkle. However, I am producing a screech that mystifies me for a few reasons.
1. It worsens over the course of a practice session. When I first pick up my fiddle, I don't screech much at all. Thirty minutes later, I can't play higher than the open A-string without screeching.
2. Rosin doesn't seem to help.
3. It is worse on the A-string than on the D-string (the only strings I use right now).
4. Even when my fingertip is pressed firmly on the string, the pitch sometimes wavers as much as a half-step when I begin to screech. I thought the factors that control pitch were different from the factors that control tone quality.
I have put out some e-mails in search of a good teacher, but for now I must find solutions through my own experimenting and whatever advice I can solicit from you!
Oh, if you want to see how I played on my second day, I posted a video to show my progress. I since have bought a shoulder rest and put tape-frets on the fingerboard so intonation is not so hit and miss. This video is at the beginning of practice; the screeching got much worse after the tape. Here it is: http://youtube.com/watch?v=LDirI_IZZIY
PLEASE HELP MY SCREECHING. My pets and neighbors will be grateful.
Hi, you're not screeching, don't worry. Definitely get a teacher, even a classical teacher, because you need the basics---finger independence, good tone, an ear for intonation, etc. Meanwhile, look at Todd Ehle here:
First of all, relax. Everyone who starts out on fiddle or violin has that screeching sound at first. And from looking at that clip, you seem to be doing very well for your first week!
There is a very small margin of error when drawing the bow across the string. There is a narrow range of pressure and speed that produces a good tone on a fiddle, and it takes a while to learn to do it consistently. So you're going to have to screech for a while before you develop a solid tone.
It's hard to tell you what to do about it because it's something you can only learn by ear and feel. It may help to bow an open string and make minor adjustments to the way you're drawing the bow across the string until you notice the ringing sound of a good tone.
You'll figure it out. For one week of playing, you are off to a really good start.
Screetch and Jig have good advice- when you first start to practice, just bow the open strings, over and over. Use the whole bow- you can even watch yourself in a mirror. You want the bow to contact the strings halfway between the bridge and the end of the fingerboard, as a general rule.
Heh, well I couldn't think of a good screen name when I signed up and I thought this one would be funny for a fiddler. But the joke has gotten kinda old.
Can anyone tell me why it gets worse over the course of my practice session? Why does it sound OK at the beginning, but just awful 20-30 minutes later? I don't think I'm bowing in a different location on the strings or at an angle.
Is fatigue typical for beginners? I also notice that I have a hard time keeping my bow from bouncing on the strings later in my practice sessions. Should I ask about this in a new discussion?
Because the video doesn't really demonstrate the screech, I'll describe it. It's not a scratchy, scraping, unpitched screech. Often the right pitch (or something like it) still comes out, but the tone is squealy and dry. It kind of sounds like it's an octave high, and it's not resonant at all.
I almost never have trouble producing a warm-ish tone on an open string. When I hear the screech, it's always on fingered notes on the A-string. At that point, I try just bowing slowly through them, as you suggested on the open strings. But after 20-30 minutes of practice, it seems that the screech occurs on those fingered notes no matter how carefully I try to bow.
Thanks again for your encouragement and advice. Please keep it coming! I intend to get a teacher ASAP.
I probably gets worse because you tense up more and don't realize the pressure(weight is a better word, really)on the strings has changed. Anytime one is tense, things change. If you could video tape a side view of your fiddle so we could see where(between bridge and fingerboard) you're bowing and the angle, that would be more helpful to us.
Anytime you finger notes, the string does not resonate as freely as open strings. Hence, a tiny bit of pressure/speed from the bow is needed. It sounds as if you are getting tense and not using different bow pressure on those fingered notes.
My advice is to play until you start screeching and then take a break. No sense practicing bad habits. Your stamina will increase over a few weeks, and gradually you'll be able to play a lot longer without tensing up. Doesn't it seem strange to be talking about stamina and tensing up over tiny tiny bits of weight?
All that being said, you are going through the exact same things that we've all gone through. This really is a difficult instrument, and it takes a long time to get past some obstacles. Keep at it!
Maybe try and get hold of Robert Juzek; the simplicity of violin playing . [metropolitan music co can source a copy]...
and 'the technique of violin playing .the Joachim method,'' by karl Courvoisier.[Amazon]
They cover basics, and R Juzek , a lot of good stuff.
good luck. look at other threads about advice on bow holds.
I was trying earlier to find my description of how to get a good bow hold. I think it would be helpful, but I can't find it. Someone who's better at searching than me - Trevor? - may give you the link. Anyway, I've tried to reconstruct it below.
Meanwhile ... I could see from the clip you posted what was wrong - at least in that particular clip. It will change and be differently wrong - if you follow me - at different times. This is one of the reasons why it would be good to get a teacher. What was wrong was that you were actually *holding* the bow with your fingers. As a result your whole arm was stiff and you will always produce a screetch. It will get worse as you continue to practice, because you will become more and more fixed in this stiff position.
What you need to do is this, preferably with an assistant (partner, friend, child ?):
Put the fiddle and bow down. Stand up straight. Reach up with your arms as high as you can go ... then shake your arms vigorously - out in front of you, to the sides, all over the place and all the way to your fingertips. As if you're trying to shake your fingers off the end of your arms. Then drop your arms by your sides and release all tension in them so they are completely floppy. Your hands should be parallel to your body. Now, without changing either the shape or feel of your hand in any way, swivel your right arm through 90 degrees so that your right hand is now at right angles to your body, with the back of your hand facing forward. Get someone to hold your fiddle in more or less the right position under your chin, and get them to pick the bow up and hold it with the bow touching the strings and parallel to the bridge. (They are allowed to use both hands for this.)
This is the most important part: WITHOUT CHANGING HOW YOUR RIGHT HAND FEELS IN ANY WAY, lift your arm, not your hand, from the elbow to a position slightly above the bow and just let your arm move down so that your hand is just resting on the bow. If you have managed not to change the position of your fingers at all, as instructed, your hand should now be in a perfect position on the bow. DO NOT GRIP THE BOW. The idea is that you simply guide the bow. The strings hold the bow up - you don't need to.
Out of interest, because you've shaken out both arms, you will find that if you turn your left arm in an appropriate way, without changing the feel of your hand in any way, you will find that lifting it up will give you the right postition for your left hand on the fiddle also. Magic, eh?
It does look like your bow hold could get more and more tense as you continue to practice. If you can get a teacher, I'm sure they'll work on a comfortable way to hold the bow. The idea is to be relaxed, fingers probably closer together and curved over the bow. I was told that if you used a scale from 1 to 10 on how firm you hold your bow, you should always be a "1". Since I've worked on that, my sound has greatly improved and I can actually play longer.
He's got two lessons on hoidng the bow, 2 on how to sit and position your fiddle. ...I think he's got 53 lessons on line of 3-5 minute duration....and all of those I've seen so far have really helped my playing. (And though it's a Dutch youtube site...he speaks English)
Todd Ehle's bow-holding videos are GREAT. I was really misunderstanding that. I also love his delivery. It reminds me of Bob Ross, the guy who used to paint nature scenes on TV.
I think you sound good for being a total beginner. Where do you live by the way? Are you still looking for lessons? You might want to check out some fiddle forums for advice and look for teachers, www.fiddlehangout.com, www.fiddleforum.com to name some goo d ones.
Screeching beginner
Screeching beginner
I rented my first fiddle this week, and I'm having a blast with my eclectic repertoire of Goodnight Ladies and Twinkle, Twinkle. However, I am producing a screech that mystifies me for a few reasons.
1. It worsens over the course of a practice session. When I first pick up my fiddle, I don't screech much at all. Thirty minutes later, I can't play higher than the open A-string without screeching.
2. Rosin doesn't seem to help.
3. It is worse on the A-string than on the D-string (the only strings I use right now).
4. Even when my fingertip is pressed firmly on the string, the pitch sometimes wavers as much as a half-step when I begin to screech. I thought the factors that control pitch were different from the factors that control tone quality.
I have put out some e-mails in search of a good teacher, but for now I must find solutions through my own experimenting and whatever advice I can solicit from you!
Oh, if you want to see how I played on my second day, I posted a video to show my progress. I since have bought a shoulder rest and put tape-frets on the fingerboard so intonation is not so hit and miss. This video is at the beginning of practice; the screeching got much worse after the tape. Here it is: http://youtube.com/watch?v=LDirI_IZZIY
PLEASE HELP MY SCREECHING. My pets and neighbors will be grateful.
# Posted on May 24th 2008 by erinealberty
Re: Screeching beginner
Hi, you're not screeching, don't worry. Definitely get a teacher, even a classical teacher, because you need the basics---finger independence, good tone, an ear for intonation, etc. Meanwhile, look at Todd Ehle here:
http://virtualviolin.blogspot.com/#vids
Best of luck and have fun!
# Posted on May 24th 2008 by kennedy
Re: Screeching beginner
First of all, relax. Everyone who starts out on fiddle or violin has that screeching sound at first. And from looking at that clip, you seem to be doing very well for your first week!
There is a very small margin of error when drawing the bow across the string. There is a narrow range of pressure and speed that produces a good tone on a fiddle, and it takes a while to learn to do it consistently. So you're going to have to screech for a while before you develop a solid tone.
It's hard to tell you what to do about it because it's something you can only learn by ear and feel. It may help to bow an open string and make minor adjustments to the way you're drawing the bow across the string until you notice the ringing sound of a good tone.
You'll figure it out. For one week of playing, you are off to a really good start.
# Posted on May 24th 2008 by Marklar
Re: Screeching beginner
I love the irony of such good advice coming above from someone who'se screen name describes the problem....
# Posted on May 24th 2008 by Will CPT
Re: Screeching beginner
I thought it was pretty good for a total beginer.. .. I echoe the above advice... lessons could help a lot.
try bowing without using the left hand to finger notes... that might help you focus on one aspect at a time. Enjoy
# Posted on May 24th 2008 by jig
Re: Screeching beginner
Erin,
Screetch and Jig have good advice- when you first start to practice, just bow the open strings, over and over. Use the whole bow- you can even watch yourself in a mirror. You want the bow to contact the strings halfway between the bridge and the end of the fingerboard, as a general rule.
# Posted on May 24th 2008 by Greg the Piano Tuner
Re: Screeching beginner
Heh, well I couldn't think of a good screen name when I signed up and I thought this one would be funny for a fiddler. But the joke has gotten kinda old.
# Posted on May 24th 2008 by Marklar
Re: Screeching beginner
You all are great. Thank you so much!
Can anyone tell me why it gets worse over the course of my practice session? Why does it sound OK at the beginning, but just awful 20-30 minutes later? I don't think I'm bowing in a different location on the strings or at an angle.
Is fatigue typical for beginners? I also notice that I have a hard time keeping my bow from bouncing on the strings later in my practice sessions. Should I ask about this in a new discussion?
Because the video doesn't really demonstrate the screech, I'll describe it. It's not a scratchy, scraping, unpitched screech. Often the right pitch (or something like it) still comes out, but the tone is squealy and dry. It kind of sounds like it's an octave high, and it's not resonant at all.
I almost never have trouble producing a warm-ish tone on an open string. When I hear the screech, it's always on fingered notes on the A-string. At that point, I try just bowing slowly through them, as you suggested on the open strings. But after 20-30 minutes of practice, it seems that the screech occurs on those fingered notes no matter how carefully I try to bow.
Thanks again for your encouragement and advice. Please keep it coming! I intend to get a teacher ASAP.
# Posted on May 24th 2008 by erinealberty
Re: Screeching beginner
I probably gets worse because you tense up more and don't realize the pressure(weight is a better word, really)on the strings has changed. Anytime one is tense, things change. If you could video tape a side view of your fiddle so we could see where(between bridge and fingerboard) you're bowing and the angle, that would be more helpful to us.
Anytime you finger notes, the string does not resonate as freely as open strings. Hence, a tiny bit of pressure/speed from the bow is needed. It sounds as if you are getting tense and not using different bow pressure on those fingered notes.
My advice is to play until you start screeching and then take a break. No sense practicing bad habits. Your stamina will increase over a few weeks, and gradually you'll be able to play a lot longer without tensing up. Doesn't it seem strange to be talking about stamina and tensing up over tiny tiny bits of weight?
All that being said, you are going through the exact same things that we've all gone through. This really is a difficult instrument, and it takes a long time to get past some obstacles. Keep at it!
# Posted on May 24th 2008 by awildman
Re: Screeching beginner
Maybe try and get hold of Robert Juzek; the simplicity of violin playing . [metropolitan music co can source a copy]...
and 'the technique of violin playing .the Joachim method,'' by karl Courvoisier.[Amazon]
They cover basics, and R Juzek , a lot of good stuff.
good luck. look at other threads about advice on bow holds.
# Posted on May 24th 2008 by jig
Re: Screeching beginner
I was trying earlier to find my description of how to get a good bow hold. I think it would be helpful, but I can't find it. Someone who's better at searching than me - Trevor? - may give you the link. Anyway, I've tried to reconstruct it below.
Meanwhile ... I could see from the clip you posted what was wrong - at least in that particular clip. It will change and be differently wrong - if you follow me - at different times. This is one of the reasons why it would be good to get a teacher. What was wrong was that you were actually *holding* the bow with your fingers. As a result your whole arm was stiff and you will always produce a screetch. It will get worse as you continue to practice, because you will become more and more fixed in this stiff position.
What you need to do is this, preferably with an assistant (partner, friend, child ?):
Put the fiddle and bow down. Stand up straight. Reach up with your arms as high as you can go ... then shake your arms vigorously - out in front of you, to the sides, all over the place and all the way to your fingertips. As if you're trying to shake your fingers off the end of your arms. Then drop your arms by your sides and release all tension in them so they are completely floppy. Your hands should be parallel to your body. Now, without changing either the shape or feel of your hand in any way, swivel your right arm through 90 degrees so that your right hand is now at right angles to your body, with the back of your hand facing forward. Get someone to hold your fiddle in more or less the right position under your chin, and get them to pick the bow up and hold it with the bow touching the strings and parallel to the bridge. (They are allowed to use both hands for this.)
This is the most important part: WITHOUT CHANGING HOW YOUR RIGHT HAND FEELS IN ANY WAY, lift your arm, not your hand, from the elbow to a position slightly above the bow and just let your arm move down so that your hand is just resting on the bow. If you have managed not to change the position of your fingers at all, as instructed, your hand should now be in a perfect position on the bow. DO NOT GRIP THE BOW. The idea is that you simply guide the bow. The strings hold the bow up - you don't need to.
Out of interest, because you've shaken out both arms, you will find that if you turn your left arm in an appropriate way, without changing the feel of your hand in any way, you will find that lifting it up will give you the right postition for your left hand on the fiddle also. Magic, eh?
# Posted on May 24th 2008 by benhall.1
Re: Screeching beginner
It does look like your bow hold could get more and more tense as you continue to practice. If you can get a teacher, I'm sure they'll work on a comfortable way to hold the bow. The idea is to be relaxed, fingers probably closer together and curved over the bow. I was told that if you used a scale from 1 to 10 on how firm you hold your bow, you should always be a "1". Since I've worked on that, my sound has greatly improved and I can actually play longer.
Good luck. You sound great for your first week!
# Posted on May 25th 2008 by nofrets
Re: Screeching beginner
Todd Ehle's YouTube lessons are great.
He's got two lessons on hoidng the bow, 2 on how to sit and position your fiddle. ...I think he's got 53 lessons on line of 3-5 minute duration....and all of those I've seen so far have really helped my playing. (And though it's a Dutch youtube site...he speaks English)
http://nl.youtube.com/watch?v=OBXFdJ3rJFc&feature=PlayList&p=22136DE7536C8B77&index=0
# Posted on May 25th 2008 by TheCurvyFiddle
Re: Screeching beginner
Todd Ehle's bow-holding videos are GREAT. I was really misunderstanding that. I also love his delivery. It reminds me of Bob Ross, the guy who used to paint nature scenes on TV.
# Posted on May 25th 2008 by erinealberty
Re: Screeching beginner
Let us know - in a week or so
- how you're getting on with your bow hold ...
# Posted on May 25th 2008 by benhall.1
Re: Screeching beginner
I think you sound good for being a total beginner. Where do you live by the way? Are you still looking for lessons? You might want to check out some fiddle forums for advice and look for teachers, www.fiddlehangout.com, www.fiddleforum.com to name some goo d ones.
# Posted on June 8th 2008 by susiakasinead