Recently, with composing I've been going more towards fiddle tunes, but I don't play fiddle, so I don't know what works well and what really doesn't. Can any fiddlers here give me some tips on writing for fiddle?
Okay, but why are you calling them "fiddle tunes" if you aren't sure what makes a fiddle tick? I mean, you can simply call them tunes, right? Or are you writing specifically for a fiddler friend?
That said, I come up with lots of tunes on mandolin and end up playing them mostly on fiddle. The fingering is basically the same, but sometimes I create new bowing challenges for myself. That's been a good thing, so far.
Fiddle is pretty versatile--it's hard to find a phrase that doesn't come out easily enough under the bow and fingers. So off the top of my head, here's a short list of the few things that might be awkward for most Irish trad fiddlers.
- The key of C#m
- jumping directly between middle finger notes on adjacent strings where the middle finger is high for one and low for the other. (For example, going from the F# on the D string immediately to the c nat on the A string.) Some tunes do this, though (e.g., some versions of Heathery Breeze), and most fiddlers find a way to pull it off--a quick jump of the finger, using the index on the lower note, etc. I see in your bio that you play a bit of mandolin--try the F#/cnat thingie out to see what I'm talking about.
- And you might want to avoid overdoing jumps over a string or two (say, from a note on the G string to a note on the E string or vice versa). It's do-able, but not common in this music, so insist on too much of it and your tune won't be too popular among the horsehair crowd.
Also, lots of Irish trad players are most comfortable in first position, so it helps if the tune doesn't go above the pinky B on the E string, or the C above that at the very most. This isn't hard and fast, of course, just a suggestion.
That's about it. In short, almost anything you can play in the first two octaves on a simple sytem flute or whistle is workable on a fiddle for the average trad player.
That helps... I have this tune of mine I actually really like for once, in E, and it was pointed out to me what wasn't good, like going "|BEGB eBe*f|C*~E3 E3F|".
Yeah, that's a fun jump. But a fiddler would likely play it as: |BEGB EB,EF|C~E3 E3F|
The f to C jump isn't impossible, or really all that difficult, just unusual. Big jumps like that are easier when they require different fingers (as in yours, going from index to ring).
Sometimes for a tune I do up a flute/whistle score and a fiddle/mandolin score, each tailored to suit the given instrument. I have (just barely) enough experience on all those instruments to suss out some options for what works best on each, while still keeping them playing together (even if not exactly the same pitches).
It can sound really good to have the fiddle go low while the flute flutters around an octave or two higher.
It can sound really good to have the fiddle go low while the flute flutters around an octave or two higher.
-But if you go for that effect, bin the key of E (have to say though, those two bars wouldn't lie that bad on the flute, a little half hole on the G, or maybe something like B2EB,or B2eB transpose that C up to c and off you go, I expected worse when I read fiddle tunes )
Keep the open strings in mind. Tunes sound best on fiddle when you get lots of resonance from the open strings and lots of drone opportunities. For instance, consider using the open D or A as the tonic.
If you meant taking it down or up, I would think any higher would make it go higher than most fiddlers would like to, and if taken to D, would go too low. I meant this as just a slow melody like MacLeod's Farewell, which is more or less what inspired it.
That tune, the first part at least, is virtually unplayable on fiddle. The key of E major is alright on the A and E strings, but does not bode well lower down. E3D EFGE|BEFG FEDE means I have to move my forefinger down the D string and then up again in a fraction of a second, twice. Without sliding. C3E B,G,G,2|G,B,CD EB,CD means uncomfortable stretches from G# to B, and generally lots of inconvenient hand-realignments.
But mhuppert's right. Don't bother yourself about instrument-specific tunes. Most good tunes are suitable for all, with different versions for fiddle, flute, concertina, etc.
... and C is good too, if less common. A fiddle can play in any
key, plus any sort of wierd scales from India, China, etc. It's
the king of instruments in some ways.
... but typically those four plus the related modes.
I just played through this on fiddle and didn't find it that difficult, certainly not "impossible." But it does beg for some fingering sequences and first position shifts not commonly found in the trad repertoire. Anyone with some blues or rock fiddling under their belt would be comfortable enough with this, though.
E major should not be a difficult key for a reasonably competent fiddler. Admittedly there are not many tunes in that key, but Calliope House was apparently originally in E maj. although most people play it in D maj. now. I've also come across one or two Scottish trad tunes in E maj.
Yea, this could be nice on fiddle... its fiddly enough... Everyone is different. Write your tune for you and let others decide its fate with them. (Don't grade me on the structure of that last sentence.)
Concerning Calliope House, I learned it in D and thought it was a pain... someone told me it was written in E and so I tried it... I can play it in my sleep and despise it in D.
Calliope House, Andy de Jarlis' and MacArthur's Road are all in Emajor, but they also all have virtually no notes on the G and D strings. A de J's has a Dnat - convenient, eh? I don't think aural aesthetics were the only reason that D was not a D#...
Playability of tunes on fiddle
Playability of tunes on fiddle
Recently, with composing I've been going more towards fiddle tunes, but I don't play fiddle, so I don't know what works well and what really doesn't. Can any fiddlers here give me some tips on writing for fiddle?
# Posted on May 20th 2008 by JosephofCK
Re: Playability of tunes on fiddle
...How are you writing fiddle tunes if you don't play fiddle? >_>
--DtM
# Posted on May 20th 2008 by Dan the Man
Re: Playability of tunes on fiddle
Eh, what I mean is more like tunes that sound better on fiddle and has a range that goes farther than flute, pipes, whistle and that stuff.
# Posted on May 20th 2008 by JosephofCK
Re: Playability of tunes on fiddle
Okay, but why are you calling them "fiddle tunes" if you aren't sure what makes a fiddle tick? I mean, you can simply call them tunes, right? Or are you writing specifically for a fiddler friend?
That said, I come up with lots of tunes on mandolin and end up playing them mostly on fiddle. The fingering is basically the same, but sometimes I create new bowing challenges for myself. That's been a good thing, so far.
Fiddle is pretty versatile--it's hard to find a phrase that doesn't come out easily enough under the bow and fingers. So off the top of my head, here's a short list of the few things that might be awkward for most Irish trad fiddlers.
- The key of C#m
- jumping directly between middle finger notes on adjacent strings where the middle finger is high for one and low for the other. (For example, going from the F# on the D string immediately to the c nat on the A string.) Some tunes do this, though (e.g., some versions of Heathery Breeze), and most fiddlers find a way to pull it off--a quick jump of the finger, using the index on the lower note, etc. I see in your bio that you play a bit of mandolin--try the F#/cnat thingie out to see what I'm talking about.
- And you might want to avoid overdoing jumps over a string or two (say, from a note on the G string to a note on the E string or vice versa). It's do-able, but not common in this music, so insist on too much of it and your tune won't be too popular among the horsehair crowd.
Also, lots of Irish trad players are most comfortable in first position, so it helps if the tune doesn't go above the pinky B on the E string, or the C above that at the very most. This isn't hard and fast, of course, just a suggestion.
That's about it. In short, almost anything you can play in the first two octaves on a simple sytem flute or whistle is workable on a fiddle for the average trad player.
# Posted on May 20th 2008 by Will CPT
Re: Playability of tunes on fiddle
Oh, yeah, go for those nice low growly notes on the G string.
Best way to suss out a tune for that is to noodle them out on your mando.
# Posted on May 20th 2008 by Will CPT
Re: Playability of tunes on fiddle
That helps... I have this tune of mine I actually really like for once, in E, and it was pointed out to me what wasn't good, like going "|BEGB eBe*f|C*~E3 E3F|".
# Posted on May 20th 2008 by JosephofCK
Re: Playability of tunes on fiddle
"Or are you writing specifically for a fiddler friend?"
Pretty much
# Posted on May 20th 2008 by JosephofCK
Re: Playability of tunes on fiddle
Yeah, that's a fun jump. But a fiddler would likely play it as: |BEGB EB,EF|C~E3 E3F|
The f to C jump isn't impossible, or really all that difficult, just unusual. Big jumps like that are easier when they require different fingers (as in yours, going from index to ring).
# Posted on May 20th 2008 by Will CPT
Re: Playability of tunes on fiddle
Yeah, I had to re-do some parts there. The problem with that way is that is would probably take away from the tune, at least from my perspective.
# Posted on May 20th 2008 by JosephofCK
Re: Playability of tunes on fiddle
Sometimes for a tune I do up a flute/whistle score and a fiddle/mandolin score, each tailored to suit the given instrument. I have (just barely) enough experience on all those instruments to suss out some options for what works best on each, while still keeping them playing together (even if not exactly the same pitches).
It can sound really good to have the fiddle go low while the flute flutters around an octave or two higher.
# Posted on May 20th 2008 by Will CPT
Re: Playability of tunes on fiddle
It can sound really good to have the fiddle go low while the flute flutters around an octave or two higher.
-But if you go for that effect, bin the key of E
(have to say though, those two bars wouldn't lie that bad on the flute, a little half hole on the G, or maybe something like B2EB,or B2eB transpose that C up to c and off you go, I expected worse when I read fiddle tunes 
)
# Posted on May 20th 2008 by TMB
Re: Playability of tunes on fiddle
Well, I think I mainly want to know how playable this tune is, but I feel dumb just asking that, but I've also been wondering about all this too.
Can you tell me how well this would go?
R:reel
K:E
|:~E3D EFGE|BEFG FEDE|~C3E B,G,G,2|G,B,CD EB,CD|
|E3F GEFG|BEGB eBGF|C~E3 E3F|1FEFG EB,CD:|2FEFG EBcd||
|:~e3d e3g|gfec cBGB|eBfB b3a|aggf fede|
|c~e2d e3f|gfed cBGB|EFGA BEGB|1efgf eBcd:|2efgf eBGF||
# Posted on May 20th 2008 by JosephofCK
Re: Playability of tunes on fiddle
Keep the open strings in mind. Tunes sound best on fiddle when you get lots of resonance from the open strings and lots of drone opportunities. For instance, consider using the open D or A as the tonic.
# Posted on May 20th 2008 by Marklar
Re: Playability of tunes on fiddle
If you meant taking it down or up, I would think any higher would make it go higher than most fiddlers would like to, and if taken to D, would go too low. I meant this as just a slow melody like MacLeod's Farewell, which is more or less what inspired it.
# Posted on May 20th 2008 by JosephofCK
Re: Playability of tunes on fiddle
Just write tunes. If they are good, people find ways to play
them on their particular instrument.
# Posted on May 21st 2008 by Hup
Re: Playability of tunes on fiddle
That tune, the first part at least, is virtually unplayable on fiddle. The key of E major is alright on the A and E strings, but does not bode well lower down. E3D EFGE|BEFG FEDE means I have to move my forefinger down the D string and then up again in a fraction of a second, twice. Without sliding. C3E B,G,G,2|G,B,CD EB,CD means uncomfortable stretches from G# to B, and generally lots of inconvenient hand-realignments.
But mhuppert's right. Don't bother yourself about instrument-specific tunes. Most good tunes are suitable for all, with different versions for fiddle, flute, concertina, etc.
# Posted on May 21st 2008 by Joe CSS
Re: Playability of tunes on fiddle
What would be a better key, or way to play it?
# Posted on May 21st 2008 by JosephofCK
Re: Playability of tunes on fiddle
The keys of G, D, and A sound great and are easy to play on a fiddle.
# Posted on May 21st 2008 by Marklar
Re: Playability of tunes on fiddle
... and C is good too, if less common. A fiddle can play in any
key, plus any sort of wierd scales from India, China, etc. It's
the king of instruments in some ways.
... but typically those four plus the related modes.
# Posted on May 21st 2008 by Hup
Re: Playability of tunes on fiddle
I just played through this on fiddle and didn't find it that difficult, certainly not "impossible." But it does beg for some fingering sequences and first position shifts not commonly found in the trad repertoire. Anyone with some blues or rock fiddling under their belt would be comfortable enough with this, though.
# Posted on May 21st 2008 by Will CPT
Re: Playability of tunes on fiddle
E major should not be a difficult key for a reasonably competent fiddler. Admittedly there are not many tunes in that key, but Calliope House was apparently originally in E maj. although most people play it in D maj. now. I've also come across one or two Scottish trad tunes in E maj.
# Posted on May 21st 2008 by cathycook
Re: Playability of tunes on fiddle
http://www.thesession.org/tunes/display/838
is a nice and not difficult E maj tune (Cape Breton origin).
# Posted on May 21st 2008 by Henk Bos
Re: Playability of tunes on fiddle
Yea, this could be nice on fiddle... its fiddly enough... Everyone is different. Write your tune for you and let others decide its fate with them. (Don't grade me on the structure of that last sentence.)
Concerning Calliope House, I learned it in D and thought it was a pain... someone told me it was written in E and so I tried it... I can play it in my sleep and despise it in D.
# Posted on May 21st 2008 by McCracken
Re: Playability of tunes on fiddle
Calliope House, Andy de Jarlis' and MacArthur's Road are all in Emajor, but they also all have virtually no notes on the G and D strings. A de J's has a Dnat - convenient, eh? I don't think aural aesthetics were the only reason that D was not a D#...
# Posted on May 22nd 2008 by Joe CSS
Re: Playability of tunes on fiddle
E's not much different than A on the low strings Joe... I agree its not that common but its not that technically difficult...
# Posted on May 22nd 2008 by McCracken