Hi all.
A couple of you guys have requested I send you a recording of Sean Ryan, which is no bother. The thing is, the CD's i have are a recording, of a tape recording, of the original vinyl...so you can imagine the quality is poor.
I have both Cubase and Sonar..... but cant really use them yet, only to record myself and do basic edditing... very basic.
I would love to try to filter out some of the 'noise' on these great recordings.
Does anyone here have experience in this? How do you remaster something with cubase or sonar? Where would I go to find out how to do this?
If ye can help it would be great.
Go raibh maith agaibh.
I've had some experience of this, not with Cubase and Sonar but with the audio editor Cool Edit. Cool Edit isn't around any more but has been revamped as an Adobe product (at an Adobe price, I might add!). However, you should be able to do the job with a sound editor that has a decent range of noise/hiss/click/frequency filters and - this is important so that you see on screen what's happening - a spectral view as well as the standard waveform view. You'll be working in the spectral view all the time so that you can see all the frequencies.
You'll also need a decent sound card. Don't use the audio device that comes with the computer; it's usually integral with the motherboard and will very likely generate noise which will end up on any recording you make. Get a good quality internal card or, as I do, an external USB audio card (I use one of the Creative series), and then you'll won't get any significant noise interference.
Turn off all internal applications that aren't essential (background anti-virus, cleanup activities, automatic disc defraggers, etc), and disconnect the modem. Also, disable each and every sound the computer generates (error and message beeps etc). You can find out how to do this from Control Panel/Sounds and Audio Devices, or the equivalent on other platforms. The reason for this is that audio editing is memory- and CPU-intensive, so any other extraneous activity may either generate an unwanted sound or a drop out (no more than a few milliseconds, but you'll notice it).
The first thing is to record from your CD (or tape, or LP) into the sound editor via a line connection (not mic or anything else). Try to record directly into the sound editor than through a recording wizard or similar “helpful” application. The reason is to get as direct a data flow as possible and cut out possible interference from any intermediates. Record from your source at a sample rate of 44100 (CD recording standard) and if possible at 24 or 32 bit resolution so as to give more precision and the best quality when processing your audio . You'll be converting it back to 16-bit (CD standard) at the end. If you can control the recording gain try to do it at as high a level as you can without going into clipping. Fortunately, the music we're mostly involved with is at a fairly steady dynamic level, so there should be few problems there.
We'll be cleaning up an audio file that consists of a number of audio layers – vinyl disc / tape / CD (I've done vinyl / radio / tape / CD) – each of which generates its own noise signature. In the cleaning process we'll be applying the LIFO principle – Last In First Out.
First, is there any noise at the beginning of the computer file (before the tape starts on the recording) that could come from the CD electronics? Probably not, but it should be checked out by looking for colours in the spectral view. If so, than you fire up the noise reduction application. This involves taking a sample of the noise (about 1 second is enough) from that area of the file, and telling the noise reduction application to make a noise profile. You then apply that profile to the whole of the file and that particular type of noise will be removed. Then save the file with a new name (do this at every stage so that you have an accurate record of what has been done and can re-track if necessary).
Next, you'll see an area of the file where the blank tape is playing but the LP hasn't started. Again take a noise profile of a 1-second sample from this area and apply it to the whole file. Again, re-save under a new name.
The next stage is to remove clicks and scratches from the LP area. Use a click remover if you have one. If you don't. - get one! A click is obvious on the spectral view – a streak of colour about 1 millisecond in width that goes from the lowest frequencies up beyond the audible range, even to 20KHz. Don't worry about clicks in the loud parts – they're not all that noticeable. Where they are irritating is in the quiet parts and when the music isn't playing, so these are the ones that need attention. And, of course, save the de-clicked file.
OK, you've removed the clicks. Now for the final cleanup of remaining surface noise from the LP section. Use exactly the same procedure as with removing tape noise but find a music-free section for the sample – immediately before the music starts or between tracks are good places.
Now convert the file back to 16-bit if necessary, save and burn to CD.
In sound editing, your ear is the ultimate authority. When setting the level of the noise profile, experiment on a short section of the file to make sure you're not overdoing it and introducing frequency distortion. It's always better to leave a little bit of noise (which the brain tends to ignore) rather than end up with a distorted sound. The same applies to removing clicks – that can be overdone, and some types of music might have genuine sounds that are misinterpreted by the software as “clicks”, bow or plectrum attack for instance. So be careful out there.
And most important of all, if you've never done this before, RTFM before you start!
Just curious, lazyhound, do you use headphones for the above ? I have various computer+speakers configurations, and all my sounds from whatever source vary a lot according to what I playb them on. What's acceptable on one system is horrid on another. I don't know if I'm right to believe this, but I now monitor all recording and editing with headphones which cost c.£75 and give better quality than a speaker system costing hundreds.
Yes, I do - Sony Digital Reference 'phones, possibly not the best now, but certainly better than any of my speakers.
Thanks for raising that point. It's important.
Thanks, lazyhound. I got Sennheiser 25-sp 11and was astonished to hear all sorts of subtle stuff I'd never heard before on my CDs. They were the last of that model, so cheap. I guess it's the planned obsolescence thing, new models coming out all the time.
SessionSavage.... There is a program called Diamond Cut, www.diamondcut.com made for resotring old music. I think you can get a free trial for 10 days if I am not mistaken. A friend of mine wrote it and could advise on its use vua email at the site.
As for headphones, they always sounded better than the "real sound" to my ear, I use these little Bose speakers instead, they are harshly realistic, thaty are not horrible expensive, maybe $150 for the pair, and when I get things sounding good on those, the music sounds great in CD players, car players etc. They are straight sound, no effects.
Remastering a recording of a master!
Remastering a recording of a master!
Hi all.
A couple of you guys have requested I send you a recording of Sean Ryan, which is no bother. The thing is, the CD's i have are a recording, of a tape recording, of the original vinyl...so you can imagine the quality is poor.
I have both Cubase and Sonar..... but cant really use them yet, only to record myself and do basic edditing... very basic.
I would love to try to filter out some of the 'noise' on these great recordings.
Does anyone here have experience in this? How do you remaster something with cubase or sonar? Where would I go to find out how to do this?
If ye can help it would be great.
Go raibh maith agaibh.
# Posted on May 17th 2008 by session savage
Re: Remastering a recording of a master!
Hi
Cool Edit is great for cleaning up noise from old vinyl recordings and hiss from tape and is easy to use.
Good Luck
Mike
# Posted on May 17th 2008 by Mikea
Re: Remastering a recording of a master!
I've had some experience of this, not with Cubase and Sonar but with the audio editor Cool Edit. Cool Edit isn't around any more but has been revamped as an Adobe product (at an Adobe price, I might add!). However, you should be able to do the job with a sound editor that has a decent range of noise/hiss/click/frequency filters and - this is important so that you see on screen what's happening - a spectral view as well as the standard waveform view. You'll be working in the spectral view all the time so that you can see all the frequencies.
You'll also need a decent sound card. Don't use the audio device that comes with the computer; it's usually integral with the motherboard and will very likely generate noise which will end up on any recording you make. Get a good quality internal card or, as I do, an external USB audio card (I use one of the Creative series), and then you'll won't get any significant noise interference.
Turn off all internal applications that aren't essential (background anti-virus, cleanup activities, automatic disc defraggers, etc), and disconnect the modem. Also, disable each and every sound the computer generates (error and message beeps etc). You can find out how to do this from Control Panel/Sounds and Audio Devices, or the equivalent on other platforms. The reason for this is that audio editing is memory- and CPU-intensive, so any other extraneous activity may either generate an unwanted sound or a drop out (no more than a few milliseconds, but you'll notice it).
The first thing is to record from your CD (or tape, or LP) into the sound editor via a line connection (not mic or anything else). Try to record directly into the sound editor than through a recording wizard or similar “helpful” application. The reason is to get as direct a data flow as possible and cut out possible interference from any intermediates. Record from your source at a sample rate of 44100 (CD recording standard) and if possible at 24 or 32 bit resolution so as to give more precision and the best quality when processing your audio . You'll be converting it back to 16-bit (CD standard) at the end. If you can control the recording gain try to do it at as high a level as you can without going into clipping. Fortunately, the music we're mostly involved with is at a fairly steady dynamic level, so there should be few problems there.
We'll be cleaning up an audio file that consists of a number of audio layers – vinyl disc / tape / CD (I've done vinyl / radio / tape / CD) – each of which generates its own noise signature. In the cleaning process we'll be applying the LIFO principle – Last In First Out.
First, is there any noise at the beginning of the computer file (before the tape starts on the recording) that could come from the CD electronics? Probably not, but it should be checked out by looking for colours in the spectral view. If so, than you fire up the noise reduction application. This involves taking a sample of the noise (about 1 second is enough) from that area of the file, and telling the noise reduction application to make a noise profile. You then apply that profile to the whole of the file and that particular type of noise will be removed. Then save the file with a new name (do this at every stage so that you have an accurate record of what has been done and can re-track if necessary).
Next, you'll see an area of the file where the blank tape is playing but the LP hasn't started. Again take a noise profile of a 1-second sample from this area and apply it to the whole file. Again, re-save under a new name.
The next stage is to remove clicks and scratches from the LP area. Use a click remover if you have one. If you don't. - get one! A click is obvious on the spectral view – a streak of colour about 1 millisecond in width that goes from the lowest frequencies up beyond the audible range, even to 20KHz. Don't worry about clicks in the loud parts – they're not all that noticeable. Where they are irritating is in the quiet parts and when the music isn't playing, so these are the ones that need attention. And, of course, save the de-clicked file.
OK, you've removed the clicks. Now for the final cleanup of remaining surface noise from the LP section. Use exactly the same procedure as with removing tape noise but find a music-free section for the sample – immediately before the music starts or between tracks are good places.
Now convert the file back to 16-bit if necessary, save and burn to CD.
In sound editing, your ear is the ultimate authority. When setting the level of the noise profile, experiment on a short section of the file to make sure you're not overdoing it and introducing frequency distortion. It's always better to leave a little bit of noise (which the brain tends to ignore) rather than end up with a distorted sound. The same applies to removing clicks – that can be overdone, and some types of music might have genuine sounds that are misinterpreted by the software as “clicks”, bow or plectrum attack for instance. So be careful out there.
And most important of all, if you've never done this before, RTFM before you start!
# Posted on May 17th 2008 by lazyhound
Re: Remastering a recording of a master!
Just curious, lazyhound, do you use headphones for the above ? I have various computer+speakers configurations, and all my sounds from whatever source vary a lot according to what I playb them on. What's acceptable on one system is horrid on another. I don't know if I'm right to believe this, but I now monitor all recording and editing with headphones which cost c.£75 and give better quality than a speaker system costing hundreds.
# Posted on May 17th 2008 by wolfbird
Re: Remastering a recording of a master!
Yes, I do - Sony Digital Reference 'phones, possibly not the best now, but certainly better than any of my speakers.
Thanks for raising that point. It's important.
# Posted on May 17th 2008 by lazyhound
Re: Remastering a recording of a master!
Thanks, lazyhound. I got Sennheiser 25-sp 11and was astonished to hear all sorts of subtle stuff I'd never heard before on my CDs. They were the last of that model, so cheap. I guess it's the planned obsolescence thing, new models coming out all the time.
# Posted on May 17th 2008 by wolfbird
Re: Remastering a recording of a master!
SessionSavage.... There is a program called Diamond Cut, www.diamondcut.com made for resotring old music. I think you can get a free trial for 10 days if I am not mistaken. A friend of mine wrote it and could advise on its use vua email at the site.
As for headphones, they always sounded better than the "real sound" to my ear, I use these little Bose speakers instead, they are harshly realistic, thaty are not horrible expensive, maybe $150 for the pair, and when I get things sounding good on those, the music sounds great in CD players, car players etc. They are straight sound, no effects.
# Posted on May 18th 2008 by irisnevins