It is a said thing to say but the Fleadh competitions are here to stay for another while. Of course they are good craic for kids in the group competitions and the duets and trios, I really have a gripe with the solo competitions.
The same type of style seems to win year after year, the usual boring old comhaltas style, especially in fiddle playing. There is no appreciation for regional styles. So do you think that a better effort should be made to incorporate regional styles into solo competitions, maybe duets and trios aswell, and insure that they survive and that each act is adjudicated based on their style? I know it is hard to do this for everyone but something should really be done.
Yes there is an unfairness there- But ,,Regional styles
Should only truely be Juged by some one either,with a good
Knowledge of - Regional styles ,, Or more so someone from
that Region,, Not an easy Task,,
jim,,,,
Asking for that is way way too much for a narrow minded group such as comhaltas.How could they do that ,when to begin with, a lot of the time the people that are judging don't even play they instrument they are judging????But sure all example starts at the top and what does the bould Larry play? And this is before you get into the obvious fixing of results that has been known to go on.
Now there are books of tunes being published with "sets" of tunes and if you watch the writings of certain comhaltas members you will see expresssions such as " this tune is *always*played after that tune" or words to that effect creeping in. Talking about the master race!!!! But thank gawd nobody told Jackie Daly that C#/D was not acceptable
This has been p*ssing me off for ages.
For all the good comhaltas does (and I think it does a lot of good) it has a lot to answer for with regard to the death of regional styles.
Don't know much about comhaltas (maybe that's a good thing, don't know), but it seems to me that centralist organisations like this (including national governments for that matter) don't have 'regionalisation' at the top of their agenda, if it is on the agenda at all. Is it reasonable to expect that something like comhaltas could actually preserve regional style?
How could they actually preserve regional style though?
It seems a bit too detailed an ask for an organisation like that, which seems to have a national and international outlook on ITM.
It would be nice to see sub-departments of comhaltas in which you could learn a regional style, but is it realistic?
But comhaltas IS made up of regional clubs/offices. The responsibility should lie with them to promote the local regional style to the local students, at that local level. Then, at fleadhs and national level, comhaltas as a whole should be responsible for helping promote and encourage regional styles by awarding good musicians for being good musicians, whatever thier style.
Sounds like a good plan. Do they actually have enough people in comhaltas who can play the regional styles in those regional clubs/offices - and enough people who want to learn them?
It looks like a very centralist organisation to me, in its 'culture'. If that's the case you can probably look forward to more sameness in the music rather than regional differentiation.
It probably would go against their grain to want to actually promote regional 'autonomy' in any sense.
Sounds to me like their needs to be a Sligo Style Master Class Organisation (and others), for example, which are entirely separate to comhaltas if you want to preserve regional style. Could all be delivered through the internet too, I'd say, then follow up with annual festivals and on-site master classes.
Kevin Burke would probably be interested.
Then when that gets up and running, comhaltas will probably be very interested indeed.
Have I got this around the right way?
I would love to see that. Masterclasses and specialist schools for regional styles. Even around home the other fiddlers I play with don't play in the tipperary style (although we manage to play together thanks to thier great ability). I would love to see each regional style being promoted and used in such a way.
Alright Duijera, I agree... off wit you now and let me know when you have it done
Well comhaltas ain't ever gonna do it, ss.
I didn't know there was a Tipp style. Have I heard it? Anyone play it on recording or youtube?
Well now, ss, considering it's on the other side of the world I am, wouldn't I be saying you'd be better placed than I do get it rolling along. You *could* start with Tipp style. That sounds like it would be very attractin to people. Like, everyone knows Sligeach Style already. You'd need a Kevin Burke to get it goin'.
I'm serious now. Just drop Kevin Burke a line, he'll be very interested, I'm bettin.
Off you go then now.
The greatest example (in my opinion) of the tipp style is Sean Ryan (rip). I recently got in touch with his son and got a copy of two of seans very very rare recordings.
I get lessons off a guy called Martin Murray who is teaching me in the tippereary style and I am studying these recordings closely, but I must say its not a common style.
I'm gonna change that though its my mission in life.
I will email you a clip of Seans Playing if you like.
That'd be great ss if you could email that. I will send you my email address through the profile if you like. I don't know if you can send attaches through the profile email can you?
Well, then, you're in it now boyo. Now the idea's been posted here, someone'll do it now for sure.
Get to it now and speak with Martin Murray and yer local tourist office mafia or whoever and get it going. What is a nice town in Tib you would pick for a festival. Onto it now man.
fiddleruairi.
Obviously you must be talking about the fiddle competitions and I'm sorry but I don't agree with you. I've watched the fiddle compettions for many years now and though I don't always agree with the results (I might switch things around here or there) for the most part I can pick the top three players. There are some players who just stand out IMHO and in each competition they would be different styles. I've seen the top three players having totally different styles as a matter of fact (not always mind you)
I'm not sure what Comhaltas style is but I can assure you I've never had a lesson having anything to do with Comhaltas all my life. I teach the fiddle (I don't live in Ireland) and my students have done well over there. Because I don't live in Ireland I find that competition is a very valuable tool for me. My students don't have the opportunity to play out in seisuns and I see that their playing improves if they have something to work towards. Again, sorry that I don't agree with you.
No, thats good that you dont agree with me! haha! then there would be no interesting discussions! haha! (Is this rose cause this is a certain flute players son (!!) haha!)
Dont get me wrong i think the fleadh is good for helping kids develop their playing like playing up on stage in front of an audience, encouraging ornamentation, etc. The problem that i have is that take for example, if you have two players in a competition and one gets up and plays pefectly in tune but plays it safe as regards what they are doing with the tune, and then another who may be slightly out of tune in places but gives the tune a go and puts some heart into it (which is basically the whole idea of trad music) then it is the first person who is more likely to win. It may have to do more with the adjudicators, but there is a style of play that appeals mor ein the competition, like last year i was at the senior fiddle and i guarantee if john carty or frankie gavin or tommy potts even got up and played they would not have been placed, thats just the way the competition went you know.
I just think more could be done to encourage style because a lot of the cce stuff, like the tours, and bru boru, are making people play very straight down the line so to speak, all the same way.
Hey there! How's it going!? (yup it's me!) You going to CIAW?
I don't really get on here much but lately I"ve read about this "Comhaltas style" and I wasn't sure what that was about. I agree completely with you about the two players and I too would give it to the latter in a heartbeat and I guess it depends on who's sitting in the judge's chair as well. I did see that happen once---and it was a surprise to everyone who thought the one with the perfect ornamentation etc would win and didn't ---It went to the kid who played his heart out---that was something else!
I have listened to the younger competitions and I hear a lot of different styles being played---I'm still not sure what you're on about----I really focus on bowing and ornamentation (and not so many variations that the tune is unrecognizable!--that's a pet peeve of mine!) I've sat in competitons both here and in Ireland and I've left in shaking my head ---what the heck was that about? but I've also left in agreement..
It'll be interesting this year to watch the senior (I haven't had the chance in a few years now) and I'll see if I can figure out this style you're on about---I'll let you know
Say hi to mom!
aw yea definately headin over this year! hopin to be able to sneak into alec finns bouzouki class so expect to see me lugging a bouzouki around the whole week! haha! Can't wait for it, seein everyone again, should be great, im just finished second year in college so i could do with a break! brendan dolan and ann and her dad are staying with us at the moment, just back from a meal now! il defo say hi to mam for ye, we'll have to give you a copy of her new cd, The Home Ruler its called. You can probably guess how she came up with the name! haha!
Ah that's great! Looking forward to it too---it's always a great week! Good luck with the bouzouki---should be a great class-he's an awesome player! Didn't know Brendan and Ann were in Ireland---good on them--hope you're showing them a good time! Dying to get my hands on both your mom and your uncle's cd---I figured I'd be able to pick them up at the CIAW--their last is still one of my fav's--just love their playing (style!)
See you July!
Regional styles in CCE
Regional styles in CCE
It is a said thing to say but the Fleadh competitions are here to stay for another while. Of course they are good craic for kids in the group competitions and the duets and trios, I really have a gripe with the solo competitions.
The same type of style seems to win year after year, the usual boring old comhaltas style, especially in fiddle playing. There is no appreciation for regional styles. So do you think that a better effort should be made to incorporate regional styles into solo competitions, maybe duets and trios aswell, and insure that they survive and that each act is adjudicated based on their style? I know it is hard to do this for everyone but something should really be done.
# Posted on May 17th 2008 by fiddleruairi
Re: Regional styles in CCE
Yes there is an unfairness there- But ,,Regional styles
Should only truely be Juged by some one either,with a good
Knowledge of - Regional styles ,, Or more so someone from
that Region,, Not an easy Task,,
jim,,,,
# Posted on May 17th 2008 by FIDDLE4
Re: Regional styles in CCE
Asking for that is way way too much for a narrow minded group such as comhaltas.How could they do that ,when to begin with, a lot of the time the people that are judging don't even play they instrument they are judging????But sure all example starts at the top and what does the bould Larry play? And this is before you get into the obvious fixing of results that has been known to go on.
Now there are books of tunes being published with "sets" of tunes and if you watch the writings of certain comhaltas members you will see expresssions such as " this tune is *always*played after that tune" or words to that effect creeping in. Talking about the master race!!!! But thank gawd nobody told Jackie Daly that C#/D was not acceptable
# Posted on May 17th 2008 by concertinaplayer
Re: Regional styles in CCE
This has been p*ssing me off for ages.
For all the good comhaltas does (and I think it does a lot of good) it has a lot to answer for with regard to the death of regional styles.
# Posted on May 17th 2008 by session savage
Re: Regional styles in CCE
Don't know much about comhaltas (maybe that's a good thing, don't know), but it seems to me that centralist organisations like this (including national governments for that matter) don't have 'regionalisation' at the top of their agenda, if it is on the agenda at all. Is it reasonable to expect that something like comhaltas could actually preserve regional style?
# Posted on May 17th 2008 by Duijera Dubh
Re: Regional styles in CCE
I think a body which does so much work for ITM has a responsibilty to preseve regional style.
# Posted on May 17th 2008 by session savage
Re: Regional styles in CCE
How could they actually preserve regional style though?
It seems a bit too detailed an ask for an organisation like that, which seems to have a national and international outlook on ITM.
It would be nice to see sub-departments of comhaltas in which you could learn a regional style, but is it realistic?
# Posted on May 17th 2008 by Duijera Dubh
Re: Regional styles in CCE
But comhaltas IS made up of regional clubs/offices. The responsibility should lie with them to promote the local regional style to the local students, at that local level. Then, at fleadhs and national level, comhaltas as a whole should be responsible for helping promote and encourage regional styles by awarding good musicians for being good musicians, whatever thier style.
# Posted on May 17th 2008 by session savage
Re: Regional styles in CCE
Sounds like a good plan. Do they actually have enough people in comhaltas who can play the regional styles in those regional clubs/offices - and enough people who want to learn them?
It looks like a very centralist organisation to me, in its 'culture'. If that's the case you can probably look forward to more sameness in the music rather than regional differentiation.
It probably would go against their grain to want to actually promote regional 'autonomy' in any sense.
Sounds to me like their needs to be a Sligo Style Master Class Organisation (and others), for example, which are entirely separate to comhaltas if you want to preserve regional style. Could all be delivered through the internet too, I'd say, then follow up with annual festivals and on-site master classes.
Kevin Burke would probably be interested.
Then when that gets up and running, comhaltas will probably be very interested indeed.
Have I got this around the right way?
# Posted on May 17th 2008 by Duijera Dubh
Re: Regional styles in CCE
You could be onto something there Duijera.
I would love to see that. Masterclasses and specialist schools for regional styles. Even around home the other fiddlers I play with don't play in the tipperary style (although we manage to play together thanks to thier great ability). I would love to see each regional style being promoted and used in such a way.
Alright Duijera, I agree... off wit you now and let me know when you have it done
# Posted on May 17th 2008 by session savage
Re: Regional styles in CCE
Well comhaltas ain't ever gonna do it, ss.
I didn't know there was a Tipp style. Have I heard it? Anyone play it on recording or youtube?
Well now, ss, considering it's on the other side of the world I am, wouldn't I be saying you'd be better placed than I do get it rolling along. You *could* start with Tipp style. That sounds like it would be very attractin to people. Like, everyone knows Sligeach Style already. You'd need a Kevin Burke to get it goin'.
I'm serious now. Just drop Kevin Burke a line, he'll be very interested, I'm bettin.
Off you go then now.
# Posted on May 17th 2008 by Duijera Dubh
Re: Regional styles in CCE
The greatest example (in my opinion) of the tipp style is Sean Ryan (rip). I recently got in touch with his son and got a copy of two of seans very very rare recordings.
its my mission in life.
I get lessons off a guy called Martin Murray who is teaching me in the tippereary style and I am studying these recordings closely, but I must say its not a common style.
I'm gonna change that though
I will email you a clip of Seans Playing if you like.
# Posted on May 17th 2008 by session savage
Re: Regional styles in CCE
That'd be great ss if you could email that. I will send you my email address through the profile if you like. I don't know if you can send attaches through the profile email can you?
Well, then, you're in it now boyo. Now the idea's been posted here, someone'll do it now for sure.
Get to it now and speak with Martin Murray and yer local tourist office mafia or whoever and get it going. What is a nice town in Tib you would pick for a festival. Onto it now man.
# Posted on May 17th 2008 by Duijera Dubh
Re: Regional styles in CCE
No worries Duijera, send me on your email and I'll send it to you on Tuesday (I'm going away fer the weekend)
# Posted on May 17th 2008 by session savage
Re: Regional styles in CCE
fiddleruairi.
Obviously you must be talking about the fiddle competitions and I'm sorry but I don't agree with you. I've watched the fiddle compettions for many years now and though I don't always agree with the results (I might switch things around here or there) for the most part I can pick the top three players. There are some players who just stand out IMHO and in each competition they would be different styles. I've seen the top three players having totally different styles as a matter of fact (not always mind you)
I'm not sure what Comhaltas style is but I can assure you I've never had a lesson having anything to do with Comhaltas all my life. I teach the fiddle (I don't live in Ireland) and my students have done well over there. Because I don't live in Ireland I find that competition is a very valuable tool for me. My students don't have the opportunity to play out in seisuns and I see that their playing improves if they have something to work towards. Again, sorry that I don't agree with you.
# Posted on May 17th 2008 by fiddlefamily
Re: Regional styles in CCE
No, thats good that you dont agree with me! haha! then there would be no interesting discussions! haha! (Is this rose cause this is a certain flute players son (!!) haha!)
Dont get me wrong i think the fleadh is good for helping kids develop their playing like playing up on stage in front of an audience, encouraging ornamentation, etc. The problem that i have is that take for example, if you have two players in a competition and one gets up and plays pefectly in tune but plays it safe as regards what they are doing with the tune, and then another who may be slightly out of tune in places but gives the tune a go and puts some heart into it (which is basically the whole idea of trad music) then it is the first person who is more likely to win. It may have to do more with the adjudicators, but there is a style of play that appeals mor ein the competition, like last year i was at the senior fiddle and i guarantee if john carty or frankie gavin or tommy potts even got up and played they would not have been placed, thats just the way the competition went you know.
I just think more could be done to encourage style because a lot of the cce stuff, like the tours, and bru boru, are making people play very straight down the line so to speak, all the same way.
# Posted on May 17th 2008 by fiddleruairi
Re: Regional styles in CCE
Hey there! How's it going!? (yup it's me!) You going to CIAW?
I don't really get on here much but lately I"ve read about this "Comhaltas style" and I wasn't sure what that was about. I agree completely with you about the two players and I too would give it to the latter in a heartbeat and I guess it depends on who's sitting in the judge's chair as well. I did see that happen once---and it was a surprise to everyone who thought the one with the perfect ornamentation etc would win and didn't ---It went to the kid who played his heart out---that was something else!
I have listened to the younger competitions and I hear a lot of different styles being played---I'm still not sure what you're on about----I really focus on bowing and ornamentation (and not so many variations that the tune is unrecognizable!--that's a pet peeve of mine!) I've sat in competitons both here and in Ireland and I've left in shaking my head ---what the heck was that about? but I've also left in agreement..
It'll be interesting this year to watch the senior (I haven't had the chance in a few years now) and I'll see if I can figure out this style you're on about---I'll let you know
Say hi to mom!
# Posted on May 17th 2008 by fiddlefamily
Re: Regional styles in CCE
aw yea definately headin over this year! hopin to be able to sneak into alec finns bouzouki class so expect to see me lugging a bouzouki around the whole week! haha! Can't wait for it, seein everyone again, should be great, im just finished second year in college so i could do with a break! brendan dolan and ann and her dad are staying with us at the moment, just back from a meal now! il defo say hi to mam for ye, we'll have to give you a copy of her new cd, The Home Ruler its called. You can probably guess how she came up with the name! haha!
# Posted on May 18th 2008 by fiddleruairi
Re: Regional styles in CCE
Ah that's great! Looking forward to it too---it's always a great week! Good luck with the bouzouki---should be a great class-he's an awesome player! Didn't know Brendan and Ann were in Ireland---good on them--hope you're showing them a good time! Dying to get my hands on both your mom and your uncle's cd---I figured I'd be able to pick them up at the CIAW--their last is still one of my fav's--just love their playing (style!)
See you July!
# Posted on May 18th 2008 by fiddlefamily