No I'm not looking for shortcuts, only for things to keep in mind I haven't thought about. So here is the question, my "ear" is bad, I am bad at hearing pitches (I am pretty much useless as singer). Although I seem to do a reasonable job at playing in tune (no complaints about tuning so far), I'm far from confident about my pitch. Of course the same applies for learning by ear. Is there anything special you can do about this problem, or is it just down to listening until I get it.
Ah and please, refrain from slagging and hijacking at least until I got 1 reasonable answer, even if it's "what are you doing here, go back to practise".
Some people naturally have a good ear, but it's really just a skill that can be learned. Music students take ear training classes to develop the skill.
It takes a good ear to sing in tune, but just because you can't sing doesn't mean you have a bad ear....like Will said, a good ear doesn't give you good control over your vocal chords. Personally, my intonation on fiddle is fine but I couldn't sing an A with a gun to my head.
There are formal lessons for ear training, but you really don't need them. You just need to check yourself and learn to know when you're off and correct it. On a fiddle you can check yourself against an open string, but you can't do that on flute. A good chromatic tuner (get the kind with a needle) may help.
As a rule of thumb, if you can play with others and no one winces, then you're in tune. Your ear will develop with experience, anyway.
Besides, no one ever expects a flute to be in tune....
TMB, you raise two separate issues here--good pitch, and learning tunes by ear.
Good pitch is a matter of having a refined, accurate sense of the pitch in your mind before you play the note on your instrument. You can improve your sense of pitch several ways.
First, get comfortable with whether a pitch is sharp or flat from the target pitch. You can do this on flute by deliberately making the note go sharp and then flat, around the target pitch. Listen carefully to the differences--going a little bit sharp lives up to its name--it will feel sharp and prickly to your ear. In contrast Going a little bit flat sounds bluesy and sad. (Insert whatever metaphor suits you in all that--it's just how I think of the difference.)
When you land right smack on the target pitch, in tune with someone else, the sound goes all shimmery and smooth. The reason (in part) for this is that you've smoothed out all the fluttering overtones--the "beats"--and matched them perfectly with the target pitch. Learn to listen for those beats (which flutter faster the further off pitch you are, and slow as the sound waves come in sync with each other).
You can also blow long tones on flute and just burn the pitch for each into your mind's ear.
Learning tunes by ear is less about pitch and more about being able to hear the intervals between notes. (It's also a lot about being totally at home on your instrument, so you don;t have to guess where the notes are, your fingers just naturally play them as soon as your brain latches on to the melody.)
Start with a recording of a tune you already know well. Listen (without playing along) and listen specifically to the ***contour***--the overall ups and downs--of the tune. Where does it go up to the highest note? Where does it go down to the lowest? Where does is circle around one or two intervals for a while?
Then start picking apart the intervals. First, what's the tonal center or home note of the tune--what note does the tune want to resolve to? Listen to the recording again, keeping that home note in mind as the other notes jump above and below it in various intervals. Some are close to the home note, others are far away. Some might be the octave of the home note.
Some intervals are easier to distinguish than others. The home note and its octave are easy. Next comes the 7th pitch of the scale, the one that begs to resolve to the home note. Out of the 8 most likely pitches in the tune, (9 or 10 if there are accidentals), you've already identified three of them. Do the same with the 5th and 3rd tones away from the home note. The 2nd is also pretty easy--one interval up from home. That leaves just the 4th and 6th.
That "good ear" link is a handy way of quickly grasping all these intervals. But the important thing is to find them on your flute, and to understand how and when they occur in the tunes.
Also, on a simple system flute, each note has its own characteristic timbre. The notes actually sound different as well as being merely a different frequency. It's all practice, just getting used to it.
leahcim, you are absolutely on the mark. I find that the characteristic timbres on each note of my instruments help me tune, not so much the absolute frequencies. I'd say that the cure for a bad ear (really more "untrained" ear) is time.
Every instrument I've ever played gives each pitch its distinctive timbre. Some years into it, it's damn hard to mistake an A for an F, or an E for a C. They have their own personalities. Just listen. Really, deeply, carefully, minutely listen.
I studied Kodaly for a while (pronounced Ko-die), that helps.
Also certain instruments can give you 'clues' for learning by ear - double stopping octaves (d against D or g against G on fiddle) lets you know where the note is and you can work out others from there.
Take heart - it doesn't mean you are a bad musician.
A friend of mine was finishing his Oxford music-doctorate and said he wished I could have taken his aural exams for him as he was totally useless at hearing and writing down, even though he was an accomplished singer.
I think being to discern relative pitch is more important than absolute pitch.
You should try taking little ditties you know well, things you find yourself humming - nursery rhymes, hymns, tv ads etc. Pick up your flute and catch a phrase or two from them - then you'll figure out how they fit.
Don't think about what notes you are playing - just where they fit. You'll find there's probably 2-3 places you can start from and play the tune comfortably. The others are just awkward keys for the flute you have in hand.
So, in other words, you're not really concerned what notes you're hitting but the relative intervals between the notes that define the melody in the first place.
When you play with others, then you've got to figure how to match them as described above. I tend to listen for the home note, usually the last note in each part of the tune. Pick that up and move from there. Maybe this helps.
Thank you all, as I hoped there are enough helpful guidelines to keep me busy for quite a time (although I unfortunately can't afford a teacher, but well). So in conclusion, the thread is now open for discussing arpeggios and scales if some of you felt this hasn't been discussed enough in the past week.
Back in my theatrical days, one of the things that I used to use to help struggling non-singing actors was to point out examples of the intervals from well-known tunes: If you can "hear" the first two notes of "Somewhere Over the Rainbow", you know what an octave sounds like, etc. (We won't get into how they fit into the specific key, bit I think that you get my drift. . .) So you probably already know a lot more than you think, only not in context.
As Screech said, "...if you can play with others and no one winces..." then you're well on your way.
Will - thanks for the "good ear" link. Despite a liftetime of (mostly informally) studying some of this stuff, I still have trouble hearing certain cadences in my head without thinking about them first. I'll give it a try.
tomw, great tip about the intervals. Someone else I know who runs workshops for adults often has people say "I'm not musical" - to which he hums the first 3 or 4 notes of "Happy Birthday to You" and then asks them what notes come next.
I think that beautifully highlights that we often make statements about ourselves that aren't really true - they're just things we've been told that we're repeating without questioning - based on a definition of what "musical" is, which is itself a rather generalised and unquestioned one.
Are there ways to cure bad ear?
Are there ways to cure bad ear?
No I'm not looking for shortcuts, only for things to keep in mind I haven't thought about. So here is the question, my "ear" is bad, I am bad at hearing pitches (I am pretty much useless as singer). Although I seem to do a reasonable job at playing in tune (no complaints about tuning so far), I'm far from confident about my pitch. Of course the same applies for learning by ear. Is there anything special you can do about this problem, or is it just down to listening until I get it.
Ah and please, refrain from slagging and hijacking at least until I got 1 reasonable answer, even if it's "what are you doing here, go back to practise".
# Posted on May 15th 2008 by TMB
Re: Are there ways to cure bad ear?
Your ear probably isn't as bad as you think--if you can tell you're off (say, when singing) then it's probably not your ear, but vocal chord control.
Here's a handy little online tool for improving your recognition of pitch and intervals: http://www.good-ear.com/
Better yet, find a teacher who can help you one on one with this.
# Posted on May 15th 2008 by Will CPT
Re: Are there ways to cure bad ear?
Some people naturally have a good ear, but it's really just a skill that can be learned. Music students take ear training classes to develop the skill.
It takes a good ear to sing in tune, but just because you can't sing doesn't mean you have a bad ear....like Will said, a good ear doesn't give you good control over your vocal chords. Personally, my intonation on fiddle is fine but I couldn't sing an A with a gun to my head.
There are formal lessons for ear training, but you really don't need them. You just need to check yourself and learn to know when you're off and correct it. On a fiddle you can check yourself against an open string, but you can't do that on flute. A good chromatic tuner (get the kind with a needle) may help.
As a rule of thumb, if you can play with others and no one winces, then you're in tune. Your ear will develop with experience, anyway.
# Posted on May 16th 2008 by Marklar
Re: Are there ways to cure bad ear?
Besides, no one ever expects a flute to be in tune....
TMB, you raise two separate issues here--good pitch, and learning tunes by ear.
Good pitch is a matter of having a refined, accurate sense of the pitch in your mind before you play the note on your instrument. You can improve your sense of pitch several ways.
First, get comfortable with whether a pitch is sharp or flat from the target pitch. You can do this on flute by deliberately making the note go sharp and then flat, around the target pitch. Listen carefully to the differences--going a little bit sharp lives up to its name--it will feel sharp and prickly to your ear. In contrast Going a little bit flat sounds bluesy and sad. (Insert whatever metaphor suits you in all that--it's just how I think of the difference.)
When you land right smack on the target pitch, in tune with someone else, the sound goes all shimmery and smooth. The reason (in part) for this is that you've smoothed out all the fluttering overtones--the "beats"--and matched them perfectly with the target pitch. Learn to listen for those beats (which flutter faster the further off pitch you are, and slow as the sound waves come in sync with each other).
You can also blow long tones on flute and just burn the pitch for each into your mind's ear.
Learning tunes by ear is less about pitch and more about being able to hear the intervals between notes. (It's also a lot about being totally at home on your instrument, so you don;t have to guess where the notes are, your fingers just naturally play them as soon as your brain latches on to the melody.)
Start with a recording of a tune you already know well. Listen (without playing along) and listen specifically to the ***contour***--the overall ups and downs--of the tune. Where does it go up to the highest note? Where does it go down to the lowest? Where does is circle around one or two intervals for a while?
Then start picking apart the intervals. First, what's the tonal center or home note of the tune--what note does the tune want to resolve to? Listen to the recording again, keeping that home note in mind as the other notes jump above and below it in various intervals. Some are close to the home note, others are far away. Some might be the octave of the home note.
Some intervals are easier to distinguish than others. The home note and its octave are easy. Next comes the 7th pitch of the scale, the one that begs to resolve to the home note. Out of the 8 most likely pitches in the tune, (9 or 10 if there are accidentals), you've already identified three of them. Do the same with the 5th and 3rd tones away from the home note. The 2nd is also pretty easy--one interval up from home. That leaves just the 4th and 6th.
That "good ear" link is a handy way of quickly grasping all these intervals. But the important thing is to find them on your flute, and to understand how and when they occur in the tunes.
# Posted on May 16th 2008 by Will CPT
Re: Are there ways to cure bad ear?
Also, on a simple system flute, each note has its own characteristic timbre. The notes actually sound different as well as being merely a different frequency. It's all practice, just getting used to it.
# Posted on May 16th 2008 by llig leahcim
Re: Are there ways to cure bad ear?
I've got this special syringe and ear drops - works really well
# Posted on May 16th 2008 by Hup
Re: Are there ways to cure bad ear?
Beat me to it, mhuppert...
leahcim, you are absolutely on the mark. I find that the characteristic timbres on each note of my instruments help me tune, not so much the absolute frequencies. I'd say that the cure for a bad ear (really more "untrained" ear) is time.
# Posted on May 16th 2008 by samiam590
Re: Are there ways to cure bad ear?
Well, time, and attentive listening.
Every instrument I've ever played gives each pitch its distinctive timbre. Some years into it, it's damn hard to mistake an A for an F, or an E for a C. They have their own personalities. Just listen. Really, deeply, carefully, minutely listen.
# Posted on May 16th 2008 by Will CPT
Re: Are there ways to cure bad ear?
I studied Kodaly for a while (pronounced Ko-die), that helps.
Also certain instruments can give you 'clues' for learning by ear - double stopping octaves (d against D or g against G on fiddle) lets you know where the note is and you can work out others from there.
# Posted on May 16th 2008 by WorzelGummidge
Re: Are there ways to cure bad ear?
Take heart - it doesn't mean you are a bad musician.
A friend of mine was finishing his Oxford music-doctorate and said he wished I could have taken his aural exams for him as he was totally useless at hearing and writing down, even though he was an accomplished singer.
# Posted on May 16th 2008 by geoffwright
Re: Are there ways to cure bad ear?
Well, in the case of Vincent Van Gogh...
No, wait --- he was a painter, not a musician.
Sorry.
# Posted on May 16th 2008 by Rook
Re: Are there ways to cure bad ear?
I think being to discern relative pitch is more important than absolute pitch.
You should try taking little ditties you know well, things you find yourself humming - nursery rhymes, hymns, tv ads etc. Pick up your flute and catch a phrase or two from them - then you'll figure out how they fit.
Don't think about what notes you are playing - just where they fit. You'll find there's probably 2-3 places you can start from and play the tune comfortably. The others are just awkward keys for the flute you have in hand.
So, in other words, you're not really concerned what notes you're hitting but the relative intervals between the notes that define the melody in the first place.
When you play with others, then you've got to figure how to match them as described above. I tend to listen for the home note, usually the last note in each part of the tune. Pick that up and move from there. Maybe this helps.
# Posted on May 16th 2008 by the wounded hussar
Re: Are there ways to cure bad ear?
Thank you all, as I hoped there are enough helpful guidelines to keep me busy for quite a time (although I unfortunately can't afford a teacher, but well). So in conclusion, the thread is now open for discussing arpeggios and scales if some of you felt this hasn't been discussed enough in the past week
.
# Posted on May 16th 2008 by TMB
Re: Are there ways to cure bad ear?
Back in my theatrical days, one of the things that I used to use to help struggling non-singing actors was to point out examples of the intervals from well-known tunes: If you can "hear" the first two notes of "Somewhere Over the Rainbow", you know what an octave sounds like, etc. (We won't get into how they fit into the specific key, bit I think that you get my drift. . .) So you probably already know a lot more than you think, only not in context.
As Screech said, "...if you can play with others and no one winces..." then you're well on your way.
Will - thanks for the "good ear" link. Despite a liftetime of (mostly informally) studying some of this stuff, I still have trouble hearing certain cadences in my head without thinking about them first. I'll give it a try.
Brilliant thread, folks!
# Posted on May 16th 2008 by tomw
Re: Are there ways to cure bad ear?
Actually, I was thinking of stopping by this little Italian restaurant near the office for lunch today and having a nice arpeggio.
# Posted on May 16th 2008 by SWFL Fiddler
Re: Are there ways to cure bad ear?
SWFL, have you tried Ristorante La Scala? Bellisimo!
# Posted on May 17th 2008 by john knoss
Re: Are there ways to cure bad ear?
I've no cure for bad ear, but anyone with dire ear can get something from the chemists.
# Posted on May 18th 2008 by de Selby
Re: Are there ways to cure bad ear?
tomw, great tip about the intervals. Someone else I know who runs workshops for adults often has people say "I'm not musical" - to which he hums the first 3 or 4 notes of "Happy Birthday to You" and then asks them what notes come next.
I think that beautifully highlights that we often make statements about ourselves that aren't really true - they're just things we've been told that we're repeating without questioning - based on a definition of what "musical" is, which is itself a rather generalised and unquestioned one.
# Posted on May 21st 2008 by Mark Harmer
Re: Are there ways to cure bad ear?
I don't think you should be involved in music, seriously.
# Posted on May 24th 2008 by hauke