I'm just starting to pick up the B/C box and I was wondering if anyone could suggest some nice simple tunes on it? So far all I can squeak out is The Dawning of The Day and a wee bit of Whiskey In The Jar. Also if you have any helpful tips on learning and self teaching accordion, those would be appreciated.
I should of thought (Ducks smartly - Sorry Bjorn, only joking!) what you need is tunes that get your fingers all round the buttons - not simple tunes.....
I just started a month ago. I'm teaching myself and I started out by downloading tunes I knew off 8notes.com. I didn't learn much that way. I bought The Box by David Hanrahan, http://www.amazon.com/Box-Beginners-Guide-Traditional-Accordion/dp/1900428237/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1210861335&sr=8-1
It has lots of tunes and comes with a CD where the guy plays them. It's not very explicit about technique, but I kind of gather that that's the point (make sure you use only 3 fingers, though)! The tunes he selects follow a logical progression that's not at all insulting or boring.
If you have specific technique questions, just post them here -- the majority of people on this site are actually quite nice.
I have to say that the 'The Box" is possibly the worst tutor I've seen, for any instrument. The only thing of use in that book is the chart of how the notes are laid out on the keyboard, and that can be had for free on the Net. Derek Hickeys CD-rom for MadFOrTrad is much better for a beginner. Combine that with Peter Browne's video to get more info on ornamentation.
Polkas? I find them difficult - at least to get that Sliabh Luachra drive into them. Must be the Cork accent.
For really easi(er) tunes try mazurkas...but then I play D/G it might be different anyway.
Keep in mind that I'm just a beginner, so I might be missing the point. But, I've found that I move my two outermost fingers (index and ring) hit the most notes. The pinky finger is the weakest digit, so why make it one of the most used? I guess the obvious answer is that it increases your available fingers by 33%. I'd argue that it's not worth it (at least, for me).
Before reading further, let me say that I'm also not a doctor. The index finger (along with the thumb) are the only two fingers that can be moved independant of any others -- this is because of how the tendons attach (google image finger tendons, or check out this link http://moon.ouhsc.edu/dthompso/namics/gifiles/extcomp.gif). It's good news then, that it's one of the outer fingers. Although its difficult to move the ring finger without moving the pinky finger, you'll find the reverse much harder (give it a try). Thus, you should allow the pinky to relax and follow the movement of your ring finger (this is what classical guitarist do with their right hands). Whenever you use your pinky and then your index finger in rapid opposing succession, you're creating stress on that tendon. For some people, this isn't a problem -- they can play fast with all 4 fingers without damaging their tendons. For me, it was. Putting stress on tendons can lead to tendonitis and carpal tunnel sydone.
Another (lamer) reason to play with 3 is that it seems like the majority really hot players use primarily 3 fingers (with an occassional pinky).
The reason i said polkas are easy is that they don´t require ornamentation in the form of rolls etc (which for me is the most difficult aspect of box-playing). This also holds true for many hornpipes.
Any tutor that would tell you to use only three fingers should be binned. One of the best tutors around some years ago, probably long out of print now, was 'Capt Reilly's Tudor for One, Two and Three row accordions' Published by Hohner, it used to tell you what number finger to play each button with within each tune . ie *Index or First finger = 1 *Middle finger = 2* *Ring finger = 3 and Little finger = 4* In other words the proper way to play a button key box.
Hi Cap'n Pete (Permission to come aboard?).
I've had a few b/c lessons off someone I'm sure you would consider a 'really hot player' - and he tells me to use my little finger.
Django Reinhart only had two fingers and was hot as a hot day in Hell, but I don't see any other Gipsy Jazz players restricting themselves to only using two fingers ...
The best learning DVD that I have found that P. J. Hernon' s . I was disappointed with the MadForTrad CDRom. Peter Browne's video is not really for the beginning player, and seems to showcase his own facility for the instrument. John Williams' video is good, but also more advanced than the beginner.
Dawning of the day is a good one, I learned that one first as well. Next, I try to play tunes that I already know. If I want to learn a new tune, I will learn the tune first, then I try to play it on the accordion. I find that I have to hear the tune in my head before I can play it.
Out of curiosity, why do many concertina players (including english concertina), use their little finger all the time, while box players are told not to?
Geoff, from my (very) limited experience with an Anglo, I'd say that it can be tricky to reposition your hands and then be able to get back to home positions, so the use of the little finger is a bit of necessary evil.
On the English (from observation -- I have no direct experience) your thumb is stuck in that little loop, so for some buttons there is the option of either stretching a long way with the ring finger, or not far with the little finger, so the latter may be more effective.
On a box (no personal experience again) your hand is much more free to roam around, so it would be less necessary to use weaker fingers.
Of course, I would love to be corrected by anyone with more experience.
that discussion about using only 3 fingers is a bit "crappy" : if you don't use the pinky, you lose part of the possibilities - or you find yourself doing acrobatic fingerings just not to use the 4th finger... I know some players don't use it, but from experience, it can be real useful. I teach my pupils to use all 4 fingers, on the melody side and on the basses. I even use the thumb for some tunes (on the button box). And if you're a beginner, I don't think you take any risk like carpal tunnel syndrome (unless maybe you play for hours on)... it really is a matter of habit of using all the fingers, and, as a beginner, use them all from the start ! Play the tunes slowly and steadily, and your finger will get the habit (that's one of the most important thing : if you want to learn fast, play slowly !).
The question of using or not using the fourth finger has come up many times - a few links below.
Ultimately you have to make up your own mind. We all have hands and fingers of different shapes, sizes and strength after all, and who knows, maybe nerve connections of differing efficiency between the brain and the individual fingers. So what one good player recommends might not be the best advice for you.
I started by trying to use my fourth finger as much as the others and then, prompted by a good player, ditched it. Alleluia. I am now an unshakeable believer in the benefits of "three-fingers only nearly all the time." This is what works for me. Find out what works for you!
Django Reinhardt - total red herring. Different instrument for one. For two, he had no choice. Peter Browne, Martin O Connor and hundreds of other great players have a fourth they could use finger and they don't.
Glad to be of service Ottery My point was that people are forever assuming that what is good technique on one instrument must apply to another, and it ain't necessarily so.
Anyway you will all be pleased to hear I'm getting tired of beating this drum and will say no more on the subject. For a month or two...
Beginner Box Tunes
Beginner Box Tunes
I'm just starting to pick up the B/C box and I was wondering if anyone could suggest some nice simple tunes on it? So far all I can squeak out is The Dawning of The Day and a wee bit of Whiskey In The Jar. Also if you have any helpful tips on learning and self teaching accordion, those would be appreciated.
# Posted on May 15th 2008 by rob_handel
Re: Beginner Box Tunes
I should of thought (Ducks smartly - Sorry Bjorn, only joking!) what you need is tunes that get your fingers all round the buttons - not simple tunes.....
# Posted on May 15th 2008 by Ottery
Re: Beginner Box Tunes
I just started a month ago. I'm teaching myself and I started out by downloading tunes I knew off 8notes.com. I didn't learn much that way. I bought The Box by David Hanrahan,
http://www.amazon.com/Box-Beginners-Guide-Traditional-Accordion/dp/1900428237/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1210861335&sr=8-1
It has lots of tunes and comes with a CD where the guy plays them. It's not very explicit about technique, but I kind of gather that that's the point (make sure you use only 3 fingers, though)! The tunes he selects follow a logical progression that's not at all insulting or boring.
If you have specific technique questions, just post them here -- the majority of people on this site are actually quite nice.
# Posted on May 15th 2008 by Captain Pete
Re: Beginner Box Tunes
'make sure you use only 3 fingers, though'.
I know a lot of people say that - can you explain why?
# Posted on May 15th 2008 by Ottery
Re: Beginner Box Tunes
I have to say that the 'The Box" is possibly the worst tutor I've seen, for any instrument. The only thing of use in that book is the chart of how the notes are laid out on the keyboard, and that can be had for free on the Net. Derek Hickeys CD-rom for MadFOrTrad is much better for a beginner. Combine that with Peter Browne's video to get more info on ornamentation.
# Posted on May 15th 2008 by Björn
Re: Beginner Box Tunes
Also, John William's video seems very good, though I of not gotten around to looking much at it yet.
# Posted on May 15th 2008 by Björn
Re: Beginner Box Tunes
As for easy tunes, I find that polkas and hornpipes are the easiest tunes to play on the box.
# Posted on May 15th 2008 by Björn
Re: Beginner Box Tunes
Polkas? I find them difficult - at least to get that Sliabh Luachra drive into them. Must be the Cork accent.
For really easi(er) tunes try mazurkas...but then I play D/G it might be different anyway.
# Posted on May 15th 2008 by Key Maniac Lad
Re: Beginner Box Tunes
I also found "The Box" pretty short of useful practical information when I had an extensive but unproductive fling with a B/C some years ago.
# Posted on May 15th 2008 by nicholas
Re: Beginner Box Tunes
Ottery,
Keep in mind that I'm just a beginner, so I might be missing the point. But, I've found that I move my two outermost fingers (index and ring) hit the most notes. The pinky finger is the weakest digit, so why make it one of the most used? I guess the obvious answer is that it increases your available fingers by 33%. I'd argue that it's not worth it (at least, for me).
Before reading further, let me say that I'm also not a doctor. The index finger (along with the thumb) are the only two fingers that can be moved independant of any others -- this is because of how the tendons attach (google image finger tendons, or check out this link http://moon.ouhsc.edu/dthompso/namics/gifiles/extcomp.gif). It's good news then, that it's one of the outer fingers. Although its difficult to move the ring finger without moving the pinky finger, you'll find the reverse much harder (give it a try). Thus, you should allow the pinky to relax and follow the movement of your ring finger (this is what classical guitarist do with their right hands). Whenever you use your pinky and then your index finger in rapid opposing succession, you're creating stress on that tendon. For some people, this isn't a problem -- they can play fast with all 4 fingers without damaging their tendons. For me, it was. Putting stress on tendons can lead to tendonitis and carpal tunnel sydone.
Another (lamer) reason to play with 3 is that it seems like the majority really hot players use primarily 3 fingers (with an occassional pinky).
# Posted on May 15th 2008 by Captain Pete
Re: Beginner Box Tunes
The reason i said polkas are easy is that they don´t require ornamentation in the form of rolls etc (which for me is the most difficult aspect of box-playing). This also holds true for many hornpipes.
# Posted on May 15th 2008 by Björn
Re: Beginner Box Tunes
Any tutor that would tell you to use only three fingers should be binned. One of the best tutors around some years ago, probably long out of print now, was 'Capt Reilly's Tudor for One, Two and Three row accordions' Published by Hohner, it used to tell you what number finger to play each button with within each tune . ie *Index or First finger = 1 *Middle finger = 2* *Ring finger = 3 and Little finger = 4* In other words the proper way to play a button key box.
# Posted on May 15th 2008 by Free Reed
Re: Beginner Box Tunes
Hi Cap'n Pete (Permission to come aboard?).
I've had a few b/c lessons off someone I'm sure you would consider a 'really hot player' - and he tells me to use my little finger.
Django Reinhart only had two fingers and was hot as a hot day in Hell, but I don't see any other Gipsy Jazz players restricting themselves to only using two fingers ...
# Posted on May 15th 2008 by Ottery
Re: Beginner Box Tunes
Hi, does anybody have a link to a chart that shows which notes correspond to what buttons for a b/c?
Thanks
# Posted on May 15th 2008 by Nialler
Re: Beginner Box Tunes
Here's one: http://info.melodeon.net/files/site/BC21modernbass.gif
# Posted on May 15th 2008 by Björn
Re: Beginner Box Tunes
Bear in mind, though, that on a 23-button box the bottom D will be on the fourth button from the top.
# Posted on May 15th 2008 by Björn
Re: Beginner Box Tunes
The best learning DVD that I have found that P. J. Hernon' s . I was disappointed with the MadForTrad CDRom. Peter Browne's video is not really for the beginning player, and seems to showcase his own facility for the instrument. John Williams' video is good, but also more advanced than the beginner.
Dawning of the day is a good one, I learned that one first as well. Next, I try to play tunes that I already know. If I want to learn a new tune, I will learn the tune first, then I try to play it on the accordion. I find that I have to hear the tune in my head before I can play it.
Good Luck
# Posted on May 16th 2008 by GoatBasher
Re: Beginner Box Tunes
Out of curiosity, why do many concertina players (including english concertina), use their little finger all the time, while box players are told not to?
# Posted on May 16th 2008 by geoffwright
Re: Beginner Box Tunes
Geoff, from my (very) limited experience with an Anglo, I'd say that it can be tricky to reposition your hands and then be able to get back to home positions, so the use of the little finger is a bit of necessary evil.
On the English (from observation -- I have no direct experience) your thumb is stuck in that little loop, so for some buttons there is the option of either stretching a long way with the ring finger, or not far with the little finger, so the latter may be more effective.
On a box (no personal experience again) your hand is much more free to roam around, so it would be less necessary to use weaker fingers.
Of course, I would love to be corrected by anyone with more experience.
# Posted on May 16th 2008 by robharper
Re: Beginner Box Tunes
that discussion about using only 3 fingers is a bit "crappy" : if you don't use the pinky, you lose part of the possibilities - or you find yourself doing acrobatic fingerings just not to use the 4th finger... I know some players don't use it, but from experience, it can be real useful. I teach my pupils to use all 4 fingers, on the melody side and on the basses. I even use the thumb for some tunes (on the button box). And if you're a beginner, I don't think you take any risk like carpal tunnel syndrome (unless maybe you play for hours on)... it really is a matter of habit of using all the fingers, and, as a beginner, use them all from the start ! Play the tunes slowly and steadily, and your finger will get the habit (that's one of the most important thing : if you want to learn fast, play slowly !).
# Posted on May 16th 2008 by Nikita Pfister
Re: Beginner Box Tunes
The question of using or not using the fourth finger has come up many times - a few links below.
Ultimately you have to make up your own mind. We all have hands and fingers of different shapes, sizes and strength after all, and who knows, maybe nerve connections of differing efficiency between the brain and the individual fingers. So what one good player recommends might not be the best advice for you.
I started by trying to use my fourth finger as much as the others and then, prompted by a good player, ditched it. Alleluia. I am now an unshakeable believer in the benefits of "three-fingers only nearly all the time." This is what works for me. Find out what works for you!
Django Reinhardt - total red herring. Different instrument for one. For two, he had no choice. Peter Browne, Martin O Connor and hundreds of other great players have a fourth they could use finger and they don't.
A few previous topics:
http://www.thesession.org/discussions/display/14546/
http://www.thesession.org/discussions/display/8749
http://www.thesession.org/discussions/display/16260
# Posted on May 16th 2008 by Jeeves Tones
Re: Beginner Box Tunes
My husband is a lovely box player and he uses four fingers, he hasnt been playing only a month either. I dont know anyone who only uses 3 fingers.
# Posted on May 17th 2008 by bb Cruella de vil
Re: Beginner Box Tunes
Blimey, Jeeves old chap, you mean Django wasn't a box player?
You've saved me a lot of embarrassment when I go to Samois this June!
# Posted on May 17th 2008 by Ottery
Re: Beginner Box Tunes
Glad to be of service Ottery
My point was that people are forever assuming that what is good technique on one instrument must apply to another, and it ain't necessarily so.
Anyway you will all be pleased to hear I'm getting tired of beating this drum and will say no more on the subject. For a month or two...
# Posted on May 17th 2008 by Jeeves Tones
Re: Beginner Box Tunes
"Anyway you will all be pleased to hear I'm getting tired of beating this drum"
Well we all know you're not a bodhran player now!
# Posted on May 18th 2008 by rob_handel
Re: Beginner Box Tunes
We're back to 'to pinky or not to pinky'?
This is on sooo many threads.
What? The pinky is there for decoration? Use it.
# Posted on May 21st 2008 by zippydw