Stop right now. There aren't any. Get off of the internet, get a teacher, listen to lots of traditional music (and I don't mean Lunasa, Flook, or At First Light, brilliant as they are). If you don't have a teacher, FIND ONE. If there is no one to teach you in your area, get off your backside and go somewhere where a teacher is available at least once every few months...or better yet, MOVE. Quit expecting the mountain to come to you.
Isn't listening to lots of trad music on the internet a shortcut?
Saves having someone teach you the tunes and styles.
Even after 40 years at it, I am learning much more nowadays off the internet, than in the days when I listened to vinyl all day and went to sessions every night.
Long cuts - the right teacher, who knows about the style you want to learn can save you lots of unlearning.
It seems rather short sighted and small minded to think there's only one right way to do anything. Obviously, everyone is different, and there just as many different roads to the same destination.
Also, is not the voyage what we should be enjoying? There is no destination. No one should ever stop learning.
Well, perhaps it's poorly phrased. What I mean is I don't plan on ever sitting back and saying "Well, I think that should do it. I'm good. I don't possibly need to learn anything else about this music or how to play it. I've learned all the tunes I ever want to learn. I'm the greatest on the face of the planet and I couldn't possibly ever learn anything else." I entirely plan on being a little old man with a fiddle, being amazed at little tykes (hopefully my grandkids) teaching me things while I'm teaching them.
My point being is that all the methods are useful for making the journey, if used properly.
None of you can play so shut up! I wonder if Seamus Ennis and Willie Clancy sat around talking about their musical journey or whether they had shortcuts around The Bucks of Oranmore or Rakish Paddy. No F'n way! Struggle, struggle, struggle. It's the only way and you must give in. It's your only hope!!!!!!!
"There is no destination. No one should ever stop learning."
There may be 'destinations' along the way...milestones or goals, I guess. ('Baby Steps' as in 'What about Bob')
"the right teacher.....can save you lots of unlearning". A very helpful point.
I think about the part in the Pilgrims Progress where a side path along the way was selected because it appeared easier. Unfortunately for our heros, the path slowly bent away from the straight and narrow. Following the easy way, they soon found themselves locked up in the Castle of Despair.
From the beginning I have been self-taught. I can't imagine how many bad habits have crept in. I know, for example, if I learn a bad setting and discover it, I find it almost impossible to unlearn it and learn the correct one.
My friends here who play together with me could probably point out other tragic examples in my tune-life.
I hope everyone has a friend to sit around with and talk of their musical journey. I value my after session yak-sessions with my good friend Madfluter.
Yes, it's not as if the journey is without achievments, but for anyone to ever say they are "done" seems a bit odd. You'll be done learning when you're six feet under.
...which goes hand in hand with the thread: "no shortcuts".
quite right, death is the only destination. And if you think the only reason for your journey is "to get there", you belong on that other thread about boozing and being depressed.
Apparently the term "rule of thumb" came from a time in history where it was legal to beat your wife so long as thickness of the stick you selected did not exceed the circumference of a man's thumb.
Ahem, I believe we have exceeded it with this thread...
Geez, richard white, someone take a leak in your Cheerios this morning? Looks like you were a somewhat reasonable and productive part of discussions here until your last 4-5 posts, which were all completely beyond what I would consider "civil" (the one and only rule of this site)
You trying to get banned for life? Or did your teenager get on your computer?
short cuts to Done????
No, never...oops slipping into Tommy Machem
Anyway.. If you feel you've perfected the instrument you play and have nothing more to learn, there is always the pipes.
Seriously. Listening and playing go hand in glove...but the playing is where you make it happen. Listening to learn is different than listening with a couple of cold ones, or reading, or ...you get the idea.
Pete Seeger has this story of how his brother Mike came in one day, and played "Old Joe Clark" so pretty....and he asked how he did that, and Mike replied "It's just double-thumbing while you're frailing", which is putting together two banjo techniques not normally associated, and was another step on the journey for Pete.....
It doesn't matter how good you are, every so often someone will come along and knock spots off you with some bit of playing, and you just have to think "Yeah ! ", and get on with trying to emulate it.
Looking for Shortcuts? Rules of thumb?
Looking for Shortcuts? Rules of thumb?
Stop right now. There aren't any. Get off of the internet, get a teacher, listen to lots of traditional music (and I don't mean Lunasa, Flook, or At First Light, brilliant as they are). If you don't have a teacher, FIND ONE. If there is no one to teach you in your area, get off your backside and go somewhere where a teacher is available at least once every few months...or better yet, MOVE. Quit expecting the mountain to come to you.
Rant over.
# Posted on May 8th 2008 by Seosamh Ui Sinan
Re: Looking for Shortcuts? Rules of thumb?
Right - true and well said - therefore we've all decided to come over to your house - is 6-ish OK?
# Posted on May 8th 2008 by Jusa Nutter Eejit
Re: Looking for Shortcuts? Rules of thumb?
You mean like that tuning analysis program that makes sure you don't have to learn to play in tune by ear?
# Posted on May 8th 2008 by kennedy
Re: Looking for Shortcuts? Rules of thumb?
Would that be the Mountain Top, or the Diamond Mountain, or Maghera Mountain, or Cairngoram Mountain, or etc etc etc...?
All kidding aside, a very good rant. Better to be making music than discussing it.
Thank you for the inspiration, SUS, I am off now to practice.
# Posted on May 8th 2008 by Rook
Re: Looking for Shortcuts? Rules of thumb?
Couldn't be said any clearer!
# Posted on May 9th 2008 by madfluter
Re: Looking for Shortcuts? Rules of thumb?
I dunno, it seems like every single one of the things you listed could be considered a shortcut...
# Posted on May 9th 2008 by Reverend
Re: Looking for Shortcuts? Rules of thumb?
play a lot every day
# Posted on May 9th 2008 by mhuppert
Re: Looking for Shortcuts? Rules of thumb?
Reverend, I woke up this morning thinking the very same thing after much contemplation on this thread.
I wonder what would be some "Long Cuts" or the long ways around that should be avoided.
And, Finally, I am an the internet so that I can listen to lots of traditional music. Can the internet be "my teacher"?
# Posted on May 9th 2008 by feardearg
Re: Looking for Shortcuts? Rules of thumb?
Isn't listening to lots of trad music on the internet a shortcut?
Saves having someone teach you the tunes and styles.
Even after 40 years at it, I am learning much more nowadays off the internet, than in the days when I listened to vinyl all day and went to sessions every night.
Long cuts - the right teacher, who knows about the style you want to learn can save you lots of unlearning.
# Posted on May 9th 2008 by geoffwright
Re: Looking for Shortcuts? Rules of thumb?
It seems rather short sighted and small minded to think there's only one right way to do anything. Obviously, everyone is different, and there just as many different roads to the same destination.
Also, is not the voyage what we should be enjoying? There is no destination. No one should ever stop learning.
# Posted on May 9th 2008 by SWFL Fiddler
Re: Looking for Shortcuts? Rules of thumb?
What's the point of there being many many different roads to the same destination, if there is no destination?
# Posted on May 9th 2008 by llig leahcim
Re: Looking for Shortcuts? Rules of thumb?
Well, perhaps it's poorly phrased. What I mean is I don't plan on ever sitting back and saying "Well, I think that should do it. I'm good. I don't possibly need to learn anything else about this music or how to play it. I've learned all the tunes I ever want to learn. I'm the greatest on the face of the planet and I couldn't possibly ever learn anything else." I entirely plan on being a little old man with a fiddle, being amazed at little tykes (hopefully my grandkids) teaching me things while I'm teaching them.
My point being is that all the methods are useful for making the journey, if used properly.
# Posted on May 9th 2008 by SWFL Fiddler
Re: Looking for Shortcuts? Rules of thumb?
None of you can play so shut up! I wonder if Seamus Ennis and Willie Clancy sat around talking about their musical journey or whether they had shortcuts around The Bucks of Oranmore or Rakish Paddy. No F'n way! Struggle, struggle, struggle. It's the only way and you must give in. It's your only hope!!!!!!!
# Posted on May 9th 2008 by richard white
Re: Looking for Shortcuts? Rules of thumb?
You talking to me?
What did I just type up there? Jayzus. What a genius.
# Posted on May 9th 2008 by SWFL Fiddler
Re: Looking for Shortcuts? Rules of thumb?
"There is no destination. No one should ever stop learning."
There may be 'destinations' along the way...milestones or goals, I guess. ('Baby Steps' as in 'What about Bob')
"the right teacher.....can save you lots of unlearning". A very helpful point.
I think about the part in the Pilgrims Progress where a side path along the way was selected because it appeared easier. Unfortunately for our heros, the path slowly bent away from the straight and narrow. Following the easy way, they soon found themselves locked up in the Castle of Despair.
From the beginning I have been self-taught. I can't imagine how many bad habits have crept in. I know, for example, if I learn a bad setting and discover it, I find it almost impossible to unlearn it and learn the correct one.
My friends here who play together with me could probably point out other tragic examples in my tune-life.
I hope everyone has a friend to sit around with and talk of their musical journey. I value my after session yak-sessions with my good friend Madfluter.
# Posted on May 9th 2008 by feardearg
Re: Looking for Shortcuts? Rules of thumb?
I apologize for being so frustrated.
Yes, it's not as if the journey is without achievments, but for anyone to ever say they are "done" seems a bit odd. You'll be done learning when you're six feet under.
...which goes hand in hand with the thread: "no shortcuts".
# Posted on May 9th 2008 by SWFL Fiddler
Re: Looking for Shortcuts? Rules of thumb?
quite right, death is the only destination. And if you think the only reason for your journey is "to get there", you belong on that other thread about boozing and being depressed.
# Posted on May 9th 2008 by llig leahcim
Re: Looking for Shortcuts? Rules of thumb?
# Posted on May 9th 2008 by SWFL Fiddler
Re: Looking for Shortcuts? Rules of thumb?
Apparently the term "rule of thumb" came from a time in history where it was legal to beat your wife so long as thickness of the stick you selected did not exceed the circumference of a man's thumb.
Ahem, I believe we have exceeded it with this thread...
# Posted on May 9th 2008 by Jusa Nutter Eejit
Re: Looking for Shortcuts? Rules of thumb?
As mentioned above, learning this music is a lifetimes work.
In truth, the journey and the destination are one and the same thing.
# Posted on May 9th 2008 by Sugarfoot Jack
Re: Looking for Shortcuts? Rules of thumb?
Geez, richard white, someone take a leak in your Cheerios this morning? Looks like you were a somewhat reasonable and productive part of discussions here until your last 4-5 posts, which were all completely beyond what I would consider "civil" (the one and only rule of this site)
You trying to get banned for life? Or did your teenager get on your computer?
# Posted on May 9th 2008 by Reverend
Re: Looking for Shortcuts? Rules of thumb?
Teenagers, actually, for the record, rock.
# Posted on May 9th 2008 by mehitabel23
Re: Looking for Shortcuts? Rules of thumb?
short cuts to Done????
No, never...oops slipping into Tommy Machem
Anyway.. If you feel you've perfected the instrument you play and have nothing more to learn, there is always the pipes.
Seriously. Listening and playing go hand in glove...but the playing is where you make it happen. Listening to learn is different than listening with a couple of cold ones, or reading, or ...you get the idea.
# Posted on May 9th 2008 by zippydw
Re: Looking for Shortcuts? Rules of thumb?
Pete Seeger has this story of how his brother Mike came in one day, and played "Old Joe Clark" so pretty....and he asked how he did that, and Mike replied "It's just double-thumbing while you're frailing", which is putting together two banjo techniques not normally associated, and was another step on the journey for Pete.....
It doesn't matter how good you are, every so often someone will come along and knock spots off you with some bit of playing, and you just have to think "Yeah ! ", and get on with trying to emulate it.
# Posted on May 10th 2008 by Guernsey Pete