Now, I know it's not in the least ITM, but it got me thinking about what the ITM equivalent would be. Kevin Burke talking about ceili bands, saying how all flute players really wished they were fiddlers, I guess, would be pretty close.
"Sure, you can never see three concertina players in a room without one of them getting out their screwdriver, and fiddling around with spring and things..."
Whadda you think, huh?
I feel like the styles of music that Wynton is familiar with, and his great knowledge of them, those stylings being much more organized through notation, general recognition and discussion, allow him to make such bold and true statements.
I think we will all agree that if Wynton was reincarnated as an ITM player, and he kept that attitude, that he would play the fiddle. After all, it is the queen of all instruments, the only one that can truly articulate all the various ornaments that give the music its distinctive nature. Hey, come to think of it, different instruments, different musical style, but doesn't he sound a lot like llig leahcim?
Whoa whoa whoa Al Brown...don't be so arrogant. I strongly disagree with you. Have you ever even HEARD a good flute player? Or how about a good concertina player, or a good dulcimer player? And why is there all this "this instrument is better than that one" anyway? Why can't people respect each instrument for what it contributes to the music?
ha! love the Johnny Moynihan clip! he's a legend.....
Wynton Marsalis on the other hand is a charlatan trapped in the 1920's. Do you know he once tried to get on stage to challenge Miles Davis to a duel but as soon as he stepped on stage Miles shouted at him 'Get the f*ck of my stage n***er'
Disclaimer for the politically correct -
That last word is indeed the N word so I didn't type it all for fear of offending some of our more politically correct members. Remember I'm quoting Miles Davis' actual words here so don't go all preachy on me for putting it there.
Wynton Marsalis is a legend. I prefer him to Miles Davis any day. He seems to be one of the only top Jazz musicians who hasn't got a serious attitude problem.
"Wynton Marsalis is a legend. I prefer him to Miles Davis any day. He seems to be one of the only top Jazz musicians who hasn't got a serious attitude problem." says Joe CSS...
So walking up uninvited on stage to challenge a great master isn't the hallmark of someone with a serious attitude problem?!!!!
Do you think Liam O'Connor would try to interrupt Paddy Canny in the middle of one of his performances to challenge him to a duel?
Wynton is not anywhere near the same class as Miles, none of his recordings touch the genius of Kind of Blue, Sketches of Spain, In a Silent way, Bitches Brew etc, etc. Miles kept on innovating and pushing the boundaries of jazz whereas all Wynton does is try to emulate music of a bygone era, he wishes he was Louis Armstrong. He even dresses like the guys from the 1920's, tries (but fails) to recreate the big band sounds of Count Basie and Duke Ellington and puts on a fake 1920's jazz accent. I can never take the guy seriously. Miles is Miles Ahead.......
I think I agree with !@*£$%^&*() on that one; the clip of Wynton posted at the beginning proves that he does indeed have an attitude problem. Trumpets are awesome jazz instruments of course, but so are clarinets and flutes. Trumpets are NOT always in tune; if they were, then it would be a trumpet used as the tuner in an orchestra rather than an oboe.
All instruments are great; it's the musician who makes the music!
- "You want the truth? You can't handle the truth!! How about, "the box is always in tune- that's why everyone is jealous of us"." -
An instructor I had at the local JC had every fiddler, mandolin player and guitarist in the class retune their instruments to her because she "was never out of tune" LOL
It's nonsense isn't it. The idea that you could prefer poor young Wynton Marsalis over Miles Davis. Taking the analogy back to diddley, it's like saying you favour Lunasa over the Bothy Band.
Firstly, Wynton is JOKING in that video - of course he respects Sax and clarinet players, and so on. I thought that would be clearly apparent to everyone who watched it. It's hardly an "attitude problem".
Secondly, Llig, Miles Davis is much more modern that Wynton has ever been. They're both amazing, I just happen to prefer Wynton. You can't compare preferring W.M. to preferring Lúnasa. Yes, I do prefer Lúnasa over the Bothy Band, this time *because* they're more modern. I think it sounds better in this case.
Thirdly, challenging other musicians to "duels" is an age-old practice in the top tiers of the music world. Before he became famous, Jimmy Hendrix was at a Cream concert, and he went up to the stage and challenged Eric Clapton to a duel. He accepted. I think Miles Davis was the one with the attitude problem, actually.
Llig, why is it that you always seem to prefer musicians or bands that were successful in the past to ones that are successful now?
Of course it's obvious that Wynton is joking in that clip. And I like his playing, he's a master, what's not to like. Just like the guys in Lunasa are masters, great players all of them, what's not to like?
But I'm flabbergasted at the liking of Lúnasa over the Bothy Band because they're more modern, when Lúnasa have done nothing with the music that the Bothy band hadn't already done. That was the reason for my analogy with Marsalis and Davis.
I enjoy listening to Lúnasa more than I enjoy listening to the Bothy Band, regardless of who did what first. I enjoy listening to them both, of course. Same with the trumpeters. That's all.
[Miles Davis is much more modern that Wynton has ever been.]
true, so true. and branford marsalis is also more modern and creative than wynton marsalis has ever been. but while i don't care for wynton himself, finding him to be a doctrinaire pedagogue type, as well as something of a stalinist p.c. type in the way he administers the jazz at lincoln center program, i have lots of sympathy for his love of traditional styles. his orientation is as valuable as branford's or miles's. it is his style i don't care for....
Approximately twenty years ago, when I was a music major at the University of Absolutely Last Resort, Wynton Marsalis came to the University to talk to some high school band students. Marsalis was dressed casually and had his trumpet in his hand. He talked to the students about playing music and how he felt musicians should behave. He was blunt, direct, and honest with the teenagers. Then he played a few pieces on his trumpet with some of the jazz professors at the University. Before he left, Marsalis jokingly referred to the professors as some "local cats" whom he was willing to play with.
If walking on stage late with a superior & surly attitude, then playing a series of minimalistic, "inspired blasts" is your
cup of tea, then I can see why you'd prefer Miles.
The Truth About ITM
The Truth About ITM
Here's a clip of trumpet maestro Wynton Marsalis telling the absolute, undeniable truth: http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=qDzY1XeOmtg
Now, I know it's not in the least ITM, but it got me thinking about what the ITM equivalent would be. Kevin Burke talking about ceili bands, saying how all flute players really wished they were fiddlers, I guess, would be pretty close.
"Sure, you can never see three concertina players in a room without one of them getting out their screwdriver, and fiddling around with spring and things..."
Whadda you think, huh?
# Posted on May 7th 2008 by Joe CSS
Re: The Truth About ITM
Love it! I play in an 8 piece band that includes brass and woodwinds. I've already spammed them with Wynton's rant. LOL! Thanks!
# Posted on May 7th 2008 by gw
Re: The Truth About ITM
I feel like the styles of music that Wynton is familiar with, and his great knowledge of them, those stylings being much more organized through notation, general recognition and discussion, allow him to make such bold and true statements.
That's my boring post!!!!
# Posted on May 7th 2008 by Pete D
Re: The Truth About ITM
Should we elect someone to tell the truth about ITM?
I vote for Dow.
# Posted on May 7th 2008 by mehitabel23
Re: The Truth About ITM
I think we will all agree that if Wynton was reincarnated as an ITM player, and he kept that attitude, that he would play the fiddle. After all, it is the queen of all instruments, the only one that can truly articulate all the various ornaments that give the music its distinctive nature. Hey, come to think of it, different instruments, different musical style, but doesn't he sound a lot like llig leahcim?
# Posted on May 7th 2008 by AlBrown
Re: The Truth About ITM
Here's a bit of truth about ITM. I think Johnny Monihan gives Wynton a run for his money...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQWLA2GHfO8
# Posted on May 7th 2008 by grego
Re: The Truth About ITM
Whoa whoa whoa Al Brown...don't be so arrogant. I strongly disagree with you. Have you ever even HEARD a good flute player? Or how about a good concertina player, or a good dulcimer player? And why is there all this "this instrument is better than that one" anyway? Why can't people respect each instrument for what it contributes to the music?
# Posted on May 7th 2008 by Tasia
Re: The Truth About ITM
ha! love the Johnny Moynihan clip! he's a legend.....
Wynton Marsalis on the other hand is a charlatan trapped in the 1920's. Do you know he once tried to get on stage to challenge Miles Davis to a duel but as soon as he stepped on stage Miles shouted at him 'Get the f*ck of my stage n***er'
Disclaimer for the politically correct -
That last word is indeed the N word so I didn't type it all for fear of offending some of our more politically correct members. Remember I'm quoting Miles Davis' actual words here so don't go all preachy on me for putting it there.
# Posted on May 7th 2008 by Bored with thesession.org
Re: The Truth About ITM
If we knew THE TRUTH about Irish Traditional Music, none of us would want anything to do with it. I think it's best left unsaid.
# Posted on May 7th 2008 by granama
Re: The Truth About ITM
You want the truth? You can't handle the truth!! How about, "the box is always in tune- that's why everyone is jealous of us".
# Posted on May 7th 2008 by PatrickJWK
Re: The Truth About ITM
Nice clip, grego!
# Posted on May 7th 2008 by AlBrown
Re: The Truth About ITM
Wynton Marsalis is a legend. I prefer him to Miles Davis any day. He seems to be one of the only top Jazz musicians who hasn't got a serious attitude problem.
# Posted on May 7th 2008 by Joe CSS
Re: The Truth About ITM
"Wynton Marsalis is a legend. I prefer him to Miles Davis any day. He seems to be one of the only top Jazz musicians who hasn't got a serious attitude problem." says Joe CSS...
So walking up uninvited on stage to challenge a great master isn't the hallmark of someone with a serious attitude problem?!!!!
Do you think Liam O'Connor would try to interrupt Paddy Canny in the middle of one of his performances to challenge him to a duel?
Wynton is not anywhere near the same class as Miles, none of his recordings touch the genius of Kind of Blue, Sketches of Spain, In a Silent way, Bitches Brew etc, etc. Miles kept on innovating and pushing the boundaries of jazz whereas all Wynton does is try to emulate music of a bygone era, he wishes he was Louis Armstrong. He even dresses like the guys from the 1920's, tries (but fails) to recreate the big band sounds of Count Basie and Duke Ellington and puts on a fake 1920's jazz accent. I can never take the guy seriously. Miles is Miles Ahead.......
# Posted on May 7th 2008 by Bored with thesession.org
Re: The Truth About ITM
I think I agree with !@*£$%^&*() on that one; the clip of Wynton posted at the beginning proves that he does indeed have an attitude problem. Trumpets are awesome jazz instruments of course, but so are clarinets and flutes. Trumpets are NOT always in tune; if they were, then it would be a trumpet used as the tuner in an orchestra rather than an oboe.
All instruments are great; it's the musician who makes the music!
That clip posted by grego is hilarious!
# Posted on May 7th 2008 by Tasia
Re: The Truth About ITM
- "You want the truth? You can't handle the truth!! How about, "the box is always in tune- that's why everyone is jealous of us"." -
An instructor I had at the local JC had every fiddler, mandolin player and guitarist in the class retune their instruments to her because she "was never out of tune" LOL
# Posted on May 7th 2008 by Fishmonger
Re: The Truth About ITM
It's nonsense isn't it. The idea that you could prefer poor young Wynton Marsalis over Miles Davis. Taking the analogy back to diddley, it's like saying you favour Lunasa over the Bothy Band.
# Posted on May 7th 2008 by llig leahcim
Re: The Truth About ITM
Firstly, Wynton is JOKING in that video - of course he respects Sax and clarinet players, and so on. I thought that would be clearly apparent to everyone who watched it. It's hardly an "attitude problem".
Secondly, Llig, Miles Davis is much more modern that Wynton has ever been. They're both amazing, I just happen to prefer Wynton. You can't compare preferring W.M. to preferring Lúnasa. Yes, I do prefer Lúnasa over the Bothy Band, this time *because* they're more modern. I think it sounds better in this case.
Thirdly, challenging other musicians to "duels" is an age-old practice in the top tiers of the music world. Before he became famous, Jimmy Hendrix was at a Cream concert, and he went up to the stage and challenged Eric Clapton to a duel. He accepted. I think Miles Davis was the one with the attitude problem, actually.
Llig, why is it that you always seem to prefer musicians or bands that were successful in the past to ones that are successful now?
# Posted on May 7th 2008 by Joe CSS
Re: The Truth About ITM
Of course it's obvious that Wynton is joking in that clip. And I like his playing, he's a master, what's not to like. Just like the guys in Lunasa are masters, great players all of them, what's not to like?
But I'm flabbergasted at the liking of Lúnasa over the Bothy Band because they're more modern, when Lúnasa have done nothing with the music that the Bothy band hadn't already done. That was the reason for my analogy with Marsalis and Davis.
# Posted on May 7th 2008 by llig leahcim
Re: The Truth About ITM
I enjoy listening to Lúnasa more than I enjoy listening to the Bothy Band, regardless of who did what first. I enjoy listening to them both, of course. Same with the trumpeters. That's all.
# Posted on May 8th 2008 by Joe CSS
Re: The Truth About ITM
[Miles Davis is much more modern that Wynton has ever been.]
true, so true. and branford marsalis is also more modern and creative than wynton marsalis has ever been. but while i don't care for wynton himself, finding him to be a doctrinaire pedagogue type, as well as something of a stalinist p.c. type in the way he administers the jazz at lincoln center program, i have lots of sympathy for his love of traditional styles. his orientation is as valuable as branford's or miles's. it is his style i don't care for....
# Posted on May 8th 2008 by ceemonster
Re: The Truth About ITM
Approximately twenty years ago, when I was a music major at the University of Absolutely Last Resort, Wynton Marsalis came to the University to talk to some high school band students. Marsalis was dressed casually and had his trumpet in his hand. He talked to the students about playing music and how he felt musicians should behave. He was blunt, direct, and honest with the teenagers. Then he played a few pieces on his trumpet with some of the jazz professors at the University. Before he left, Marsalis jokingly referred to the professors as some "local cats" whom he was willing to play with.
# Posted on May 10th 2008 by fauxcelt
Re: The Truth About ITM
Right on Llig !!! I'm actually starting to like you. Wasn't he entertaining in the Ken Burns Jazz series.
Best Regards.
# Posted on May 24th 2008 by hauke
Re: The Truth About ITM
If walking on stage late with a superior & surly attitude, then playing a series of minimalistic, "inspired blasts" is your
cup of tea, then I can see why you'd prefer Miles.
# Posted on May 26th 2008 by hauke