There was a great radio documentary made about Johnny Doran by RTE radio 1 some years ago and has been repeated a few times,John Kelly senior ( father of James and John) spoke about the cylinder recording that was made in his shop in Capel street and how Johnny Doran just tuned up quickly and got into it, no retakes , no bulls**t , and he was quite pleased when Danaher played the recordings back to him.He expressed an interest in future recordings but of course he died tragically.I have this CD and it is quite quite excellent, there is a recording of The Rakish Paddy on it I just think is absolutely out of this world, all the tracks on it are wonderful.He was quite a genius.It would be worth your while to listen out for notice or RTE repeating this programme again which they definitely will at some time.
Thats the album available from the link above ? . They were recorded on Acetate discs I gather., rather than wax cylinders.
He was an absolute genius no doubt, classic recordings ,So It makes you wonder, if people who knew him think he could play much better than the recordings indicate, is that the glow of time polishing their memories or was he really even better than that!?
The recording was done in the building of the Folklore Commission, not in The Horseshoe in Capel street.
I too know and knew (not many left these days) several people who saw Johnny and at least one, Martin Rochford, who knew both Dorans well and I would think memory does play tricks forty, fifty years after the event. Martin for example maintained Johnny's pipes were sweet and quiet sounding, like a flat set (my own in fact), while it is clear from the recordings they didn't.
Breandan Breathnach was pretty outspoken on Doran's merits.
It doesn't really matter we have the recordings and they show a great musician flying it (although the small bit we have and Doran's early demise both invite speculation and myth forming)
I've seen a picture of Johnny Doran with his pipes, I think it was Breandan Breathnach that showed it to me, and it shows the stepped platform he had built for closing the chanter and playing the regulators ~ standing. Evidently, so the story goes, it allowed him a quick retreat when the gaurdai started moving through the crowd in his direction, at festivals and other places where crowds gathered and Johnny hoped to earn some copper with his playing...
"'' Johnny Doran played a set of Leo Rowesome concert pitch pipes. On the cassette the pipes play back a quarter tone or more above concert pitch.'' From the CD liner.
On the CD this was adjusted back to approximately concert pitch.
would this have any relevance?"
To what? The cassette issued in the 80s was taken from a dub of the recordings played over the radio - a really awful dub at that, playback too fast and often the sound would cut out in one speaker. The records were broadcast in the late 60s - it was from tapes made of the broadcast that Paddy Keenan heard Doran, too. His father taught him his style - also trained him in using the regulators non stop like Leo Rowsome. The Doranish aspects of Paddy's playing he got from the tapes.
For the CD they redubbed all the discs - great job, too. The playback+pitch are noticeably slower/flatter, and likely close to correct.
Anyway, Johnny's pipes may have been quietish for a Rowsome set. Can be done. Or Martin was comparing them against the volume of his own pipes, or other sets being played around Clare, by less handy pipers. Johnny not only could make reeds but forge keys as well. You can't really tell what volume a set gives out from a recording. Applying that logic Seamus Ennis on the Wandering Minstrel sounds louder than Leo R! Well maybe he was...!
The Dorans also had flat sets they played as well.
Rochford didn't like concert chanters very loud, his own were quite sweet in their own right. He preferred his McFadden reeds. But listening to a recording like Doran's you can distinguish tonal qualities that give an indication how is reed was set and from that extrapolate something about his volume. Anyhow Kevin you know well enough he didn't sound like my C set. But whatever way, it is virtually impossible to exactly recall the sound of an instrument after forty odd years. For example I recently heard a recording of a piping event I was present at nearly thirty years ago and the pipes I remembered as great sounding, captivating and sweet were not so at all, quite the contrary actually.
The 1980s cassette by the way was done by the Folklore Commission, from the original discs. The samizdat copies circulating before that were mostly from the radio broadcast (an indication is the inclusion of the track with John Kelly which at the time was a total surprise to most of us) .
Johnny Doran?
Johnny Doran?
Where can I find recordings of Johnny Doran?
Thanks,
stv
# Posted on May 6th 2008 by stv culchie
Re: Johnny Doran?
Na Píobairí Uilleann
http://www.pipers.ie/
# Posted on May 6th 2008 by ceolachan
Re: Johnny Doran?
Brilliant stuff ~ and chase up any stories you can...
# Posted on May 6th 2008 by ceolachan
Re: Johnny Doran?
Well I heard that he played a lot better without the pressure of that recording , and of course he is blindingly good on the CD!
# Posted on May 6th 2008 by jig
Re: Johnny Doran?
He played standing up.
http://web.telia.com/~u46103557/jdoran.html
# Posted on May 6th 2008 by dafydd
Re: Johnny Doran?
OssianUSA sells his cd if I remember rightly.
# Posted on May 6th 2008 by mtodd
Re: Johnny Doran?
There was a great radio documentary made about Johnny Doran by RTE radio 1 some years ago and has been repeated a few times,John Kelly senior ( father of James and John) spoke about the cylinder recording that was made in his shop in Capel street and how Johnny Doran just tuned up quickly and got into it, no retakes , no bulls**t , and he was quite pleased when Danaher played the recordings back to him.He expressed an interest in future recordings but of course he died tragically.I have this CD and it is quite quite excellent, there is a recording of The Rakish Paddy on it I just think is absolutely out of this world, all the tracks on it are wonderful.He was quite a genius.It would be worth your while to listen out for notice or RTE repeating this programme again which they definitely will at some time.
# Posted on May 6th 2008 by Red Robin
Re: Johnny Doran?
Thats the album available from the link above ? . They were recorded on Acetate discs I gather., rather than wax cylinders.
He was an absolute genius no doubt, classic recordings ,So It makes you wonder, if people who knew him think he could play much better than the recordings indicate, is that the glow of time polishing their memories or was he really even better than that!?
# Posted on May 6th 2008 by jig
Re: Johnny Doran?
there was an excellent programme on tg4 "Ceol na bhFánaithe" they done one on the keenans and dorans. it should be available on webtv.
# Posted on May 7th 2008 by flanum
Re: Johnny Doran?
The recording was done in the building of the Folklore Commission, not in The Horseshoe in Capel street.
I too know and knew (not many left these days) several people who saw Johnny and at least one, Martin Rochford, who knew both Dorans well and I would think memory does play tricks forty, fifty years after the event. Martin for example maintained Johnny's pipes were sweet and quiet sounding, like a flat set (my own in fact), while it is clear from the recordings they didn't.
Breandan Breathnach was pretty outspoken on Doran's merits.
It doesn't really matter we have the recordings and they show a great musician flying it (although the small bit we have and Doran's early demise both invite speculation and myth forming)
# Posted on May 7th 2008 by kilfarboy
Re: Johnny Doran?
I've seen a picture of Johnny Doran with his pipes, I think it was Breandan Breathnach that showed it to me, and it shows the stepped platform he had built for closing the chanter and playing the regulators ~ standing. Evidently, so the story goes, it allowed him a quick retreat when the gaurdai started moving through the crowd in his direction, at festivals and other places where crowds gathered and Johnny hoped to earn some copper with his playing...
# Posted on May 8th 2008 by ceolachan
Re: Johnny Doran?
His use of the regulators has been the subject of lectures...
# Posted on May 8th 2008 by ceolachan
Re: Johnny Doran?
"'' Johnny Doran played a set of Leo Rowesome concert pitch pipes. On the cassette the pipes play back a quarter tone or more above concert pitch.'' From the CD liner.
On the CD this was adjusted back to approximately concert pitch.
would this have any relevance?"
To what? The cassette issued in the 80s was taken from a dub of the recordings played over the radio - a really awful dub at that, playback too fast and often the sound would cut out in one speaker. The records were broadcast in the late 60s - it was from tapes made of the broadcast that Paddy Keenan heard Doran, too. His father taught him his style - also trained him in using the regulators non stop like Leo Rowsome. The Doranish aspects of Paddy's playing he got from the tapes.
For the CD they redubbed all the discs - great job, too. The playback+pitch are noticeably slower/flatter, and likely close to correct.
Anyway, Johnny's pipes may have been quietish for a Rowsome set. Can be done. Or Martin was comparing them against the volume of his own pipes, or other sets being played around Clare, by less handy pipers. Johnny not only could make reeds but forge keys as well. You can't really tell what volume a set gives out from a recording. Applying that logic Seamus Ennis on the Wandering Minstrel sounds louder than Leo R! Well maybe he was...!
The Dorans also had flat sets they played as well.
# Posted on May 8th 2008 by Kevin Rietmann
Re: Johnny Doran?
Rochford didn't like concert chanters very loud, his own were quite sweet in their own right. He preferred his McFadden reeds. But listening to a recording like Doran's you can distinguish tonal qualities that give an indication how is reed was set and from that extrapolate something about his volume. Anyhow Kevin you know well enough he didn't sound like my C set. But whatever way, it is virtually impossible to exactly recall the sound of an instrument after forty odd years. For example I recently heard a recording of a piping event I was present at nearly thirty years ago and the pipes I remembered as great sounding, captivating and sweet were not so at all, quite the contrary actually.
The 1980s cassette by the way was done by the Folklore Commission, from the original discs. The samizdat copies circulating before that were mostly from the radio broadcast (an indication is the inclusion of the track with John Kelly which at the time was a total surprise to most of us) .
# Posted on May 8th 2008 by kilfarboy
Re: Johnny Doran?
Great information, many, many thanks!
But don't stop now...
stv
# Posted on May 8th 2008 by stv culchie