The Session >> Discussions >> TWo questions. One for Flute Player, the other for box players
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TWo questions. One for Flute Player, the other for box players
TWo questions. One for Flute Player, the other for box players
FLUTE: Our 25 year old daughter is an competent silver flute player. She is interested in learning Irishh wood flute. Her mother wants to purchase a good flute for her as a gift (and get dear old dad to talk he box teacher/flutist to take her as a pupil). Who are good wood flute makers with insturments available in the US?
BOX: My box teacher says that I 'grunt' every so often when playing. He says he has had a few other students who do that with mixed results in breaking the habit. I have heard it on my tapes of my practises. What is causing that? (I don't hear it when I am playing). How do I learn to stop doing it?
Re: TWo questions. One for Flute Player, the other for box players
On the flute question, pop over to the Flute Forum on Chiff & Fipple where you will find more than you could possibly want to know - makers participating on the board, reviews of makers/instruments, all sorts. In particular check out this - http://chiffboard.mati.ca/viewtopic.php?t=57549&highlight=makers+list - makers all over the world, but the stateside ones are there..... It is worth you/her doing some serious (and seriously fascinating) research.
Re: TWo questions. One for Flute Player, the other for box players
There are several discussions already here on the flute question, and at least half a dozen over the last year...but Chiff and Fipple is definitely another good source for guidance...
Giving some idea of the price range you are considering would help. I'm only saying this because was usually raised in the past queries with regards to recommended flutes....
There is the other problem, keeping it a secret. It would be best if the intended recipient could go out and try some different makes, and see them, and through that experience to build up an idea of what she'd prefer, in look, feel, and more especially in tone. But you will have some knowledge of her inclinations and preferences, seeing also how she responds to different traditional players will again raise your appreciation of her likes and dislikes. Often you can find the instrument(s) being played on a recording. I wish it were standard practice. However, if you know her favourites you could ask here and someone may know the make of instrument.
There are plenty of fine makes in North America to choose from, but there are almost as many differences in the choice of the character of a flute, in requirements to play and in tonal colours... However, if it is a beginner's instrument you're considering, then there's really less of a problem. A decent instrument can always be sold on as your daughter's skill and understanding of this music matures and she gets a clearer idea of what she'd prefer...
Re: TWo questions. One for Flute Player, the other for box players
'grunting' isn't confined to box players. I've known string and wind players who do it... The only possible solution I can think of would be to start with some tunes and slow them way down so you can direct some attention to when you grunt. I suspect it would be harder to corner and control at speed...
Re: TWo questions. One for Flute Player, the other for box players
BOX: Post an ad in Craig's List for a volunteer to poke you in the neck with a electric cattle prod every time you grunt while playing. In a place like Chicago there may be a plethora of volunteers. As a last resort you could hire someone to do it or pay your teacher a little extra.
Re: TWo questions. One for Flute Player, the other for box players
You say that she's a good silver flute player, so she should be used to the chromatics. She might miss those possibilities on the simple-system wooden flute, so it might be a good idea to consider makers who offer to retrofit keys to their instruments in case she wants them. Selling the keyless flute and buying a keyed one could be an option, too, but no flute plays like another, so I personally believe in keeping one flute and get it retro-keyed, or get the keys from the beginning, or keep at least the head piece.
Good point also, from s.g. ~ once your daughter has found a make she is fond of, the option of adding keys is a good one, especially for someone with a silver flute background ~ if the maker offers that...
Re: TWo questions. One for Flute Player, the other for box players
I'm strongly of the opinion that a competent and adult musician should be able to choose her own instrument, and just producing one on her birthday might not be the kindest thing you could do for her. The only exception would be if she is already talking about some particular make or type.
Why not just say that you will be happy to fund her purchase up to whatever price - at 25 she presumably has some income of her own to add to this if needed - and let her make an informed and personal choice rather than you trying to do it for her. Or find somewhere that sells what you want to buy her, take her along to choose, and wave your chequebook or credit card.
Re: TWo questions. One for Flute Player, the other for box players
Nice one GP, you said directly what I was fuffin' about... So dear Zippy, there are two of us of that mind, GP and me... She is 25 and already an accomplished player of the silver flute!
Re: TWo questions. One for Flute Player, the other for box players
I use to play with a banjo player who grunted even when he wasn't playing. He called it talking....... The grunting while playing the diatonic box is caused by the tendency to breath in or out with the direction of the bellows. You are just breathing out loud. I've been playing the box for years and although I don't grunt I still find it hard to talk and play at the same time I have great admiration for people who can play and sing, especially while playing a diatonic.
Re: TWo questions. One for Flute Player, the other for box players
My box teacher gave me the assignment to talk and play at the same time. I am at one and three-quarters works in reasonable succession. It is woeful.
GP and others....The idea is to let the daughter pick the instrument-it certainly will not be a surprise present. It's just that I am looking for guidance because she is a silver flute player, not a wood flute player and I will probably be part of the process...
The part that pays for it! Also, the question was intended to get a feeling for what quality various prices buy.
I am glad to hear there are other grunters out there. But my teacher say he doesn't want a grunter out there who is identified as one of his students '-)
Re: TWo questions. One for Flute Player, the other for box players
Zippy: Terry McGee (Australia) could be an option, even though she won't be able to pick an instrument. Terry makes the modern Boehm (silver) flute embouchure hole in wood which is what your daughter is used to, so she might find the transition easier. Casey Burns is also a great maker who retrofits keys and works in the states. Buying local is certainly a good idea, especially due to the low dollar rate.
Re: TWo questions. One for Flute Player, the other for box players
Re the box question.
I have noticed myself doing this too, but very quietly. I think it's because the box is such a "whole-body" instrument. The bellows are like your lungs, and I still find myself breathing in on the draw and out on the press. (and filling up my lungs a lot on tunes in A!) The box unlike anything else I've played seems to become part of me when I play - sounds weird, but the grunts are part of that - when you accent or ornament notes, it's hard to separate what your body is doing from what the box is doing. That's the only way I can understand or explain it.
As for what to do about it, I have no idea, other than learn to do it quietly so it won't be noticed!
Re: TWo questions. One for Flute Player, the other for box players
Regarding the vocalizing: There was an old jazz piano player I used to listen to who used to mumble throughout his performances (Oscar Peterson maybe?). I always liked it. Unless it is wildly out of tune, why fight it?
Re: TWo questions. One for Flute Player, the other for box players
Recording is how I confirmed I was grunting! No pattern. I am trying to see if there is a particular circumstance or move where it happens.
BnW- I am glad I am not the only one....And like the old Jazz piano player, I have been accused of talking to myself when I play the piano at church...particulary some of that aweful...oh that's for another website. Everyone knows my feelings about the Catholic Music Mill in Chicago.
TWo questions. One for Flute Player, the other for box players
TWo questions. One for Flute Player, the other for box players
FLUTE: Our 25 year old daughter is an competent silver flute player. She is interested in learning Irishh wood flute. Her mother wants to purchase a good flute for her as a gift (and get dear old dad to talk he box teacher/flutist to take her as a pupil). Who are good wood flute makers with insturments available in the US?
BOX: My box teacher says that I 'grunt' every so often when playing. He says he has had a few other students who do that with mixed results in breaking the habit. I have heard it on my tapes of my practises. What is causing that? (I don't hear it when I am playing). How do I learn to stop doing it?
Advice as always greatly appreciated.
# Posted on May 5th 2008 by zippydw
Re: TWo questions. One for Flute Player, the other for box players
On the flute question, pop over to the Flute Forum on Chiff & Fipple where you will find more than you could possibly want to know - makers participating on the board, reviews of makers/instruments, all sorts. In particular check out this - http://chiffboard.mati.ca/viewtopic.php?t=57549&highlight=makers+list - makers all over the world, but the stateside ones are there..... It is worth you/her doing some serious (and seriously fascinating) research.
# Posted on May 5th 2008 by Jemtheflute
Re: TWo questions. One for Flute Player, the other for box players
I'll check that out. I was also hoping to get some feedback from the flautists on the qualitative aspects of particular brands.
Thanks for the advice
# Posted on May 5th 2008 by zippydw
Re: TWo questions. One for Flute Player, the other for box players
There are several discussions already here on the flute question, and at least half a dozen over the last year...but Chiff and Fipple is definitely another good source for guidance...
Giving some idea of the price range you are considering would help. I'm only saying this because was usually raised in the past queries with regards to recommended flutes....
# Posted on May 5th 2008 by ceolachan
Re: TWo questions. One for Flute Player, the other for box players
So, research ~ first your earlier discussion ~
Discussion: Wood Flutes. Advice request
# Posted on December 17th 2007 by zippydw
http://www.thesession.org/discussions/display/16122
Then a few more ~
Discussion: A particular flute...
# Posted on October 24th 2007 by JosephofCK
http://www.thesession.org/discussions/display/15579
Discussion: Calling all flute players / people in "the know". THE TIME HAS COME!
# Posted on July 28th 2007 by piper jj
http://www.thesession.org/discussions/display/14612
Discussion: flute recommendation
# Posted on May 29th 2007 by williamcoulter
http://www.thesession.org/discussions/display/13910
Discussion: Flute to purchase
# Posted on January 20th 2006 by ReelinUSA
http://www.thesession.org/discussions/display/8961
Discussion: Would like to buy an Irish Wooden Flute. Any recommendations?
# Posted on June 15th 2005 by flauta dolce
http://www.thesession.org/discussions/display/6885
Discussion: A Flute for Beginners
# Posted on May 19th 2005 by Ralph&Bateman
http://www.thesession.org/discussions/display/6669
Discussion: Flute buying question
# Posted on October 21st 2002 by dumpingsirkey
http://www.thesession.org/discussions/display/998
# Posted on May 5th 2008 by ceolachan
Re: TWo questions. One for Flute Player, the other for box players
& a few more before I step out into the wilds ~
Discussion: Beginner looking to buy a wooden flute
# Posted on October 19th 2006 by JennyLmk
http://www.thesession.org/discussions/display/11550
Discussion: Irish Flute
# Posted on July 29th 2006 by Harper_Lad http://www.thesession.org/discussions/display/10798
Discussion: buying a flute
# Posted on January 31st 2006 by peterk2
http://www.thesession.org/discussions/display/9077
# Posted on May 5th 2008 by ceolachan
Re: TWo questions. One for Flute Player, the other for box players
I do the sames thing when playing the box!
# Posted on May 5th 2008 by dinn2
Re: TWo questions. One for Flute Player, the other for box players
And do not forget the dollar exchange rate...
Chris
# Posted on May 5th 2008 by Crackpot
Flute recommendations ~
There is the other problem, keeping it a secret. It would be best if the intended recipient could go out and try some different makes, and see them, and through that experience to build up an idea of what she'd prefer, in look, feel, and more especially in tone. But you will have some knowledge of her inclinations and preferences, seeing also how she responds to different traditional players will again raise your appreciation of her likes and dislikes. Often you can find the instrument(s) being played on a recording. I wish it were standard practice. However, if you know her favourites you could ask here and someone may know the make of instrument.
There are plenty of fine makes in North America to choose from, but there are almost as many differences in the choice of the character of a flute, in requirements to play and in tonal colours... However, if it is a beginner's instrument you're considering, then there's really less of a problem. A decent instrument can always be sold on as your daughter's skill and understanding of this music matures and she gets a clearer idea of what she'd prefer...
Best of luck...
# Posted on May 5th 2008 by ceolachan
Re: TWo questions. One for Flute Player, the other for box players
'grunting' isn't confined to box players. I've known string and wind players who do it... The only possible solution I can think of would be to start with some tunes and slow them way down so you can direct some attention to when you grunt. I suspect it would be harder to corner and control at speed...
# Posted on May 5th 2008 by ceolachan
Re: TWo questions. One for Flute Player, the other for box players
BOX: Post an ad in Craig's List for a volunteer to poke you in the neck with a electric cattle prod every time you grunt while playing. In a place like Chicago there may be a plethora of volunteers. As a last resort you could hire someone to do it or pay your teacher a little extra.
# Posted on May 5th 2008 by joesmith
Re: TWo questions. One for Flute Player, the other for box players
You say that she's a good silver flute player, so she should be used to the chromatics. She might miss those possibilities on the simple-system wooden flute, so it might be a good idea to consider makers who offer to retrofit keys to their instruments in case she wants them. Selling the keyless flute and buying a keyed one could be an option, too, but no flute plays like another, so I personally believe in keeping one flute and get it retro-keyed, or get the keys from the beginning, or keep at least the head piece.
# Posted on May 5th 2008 by s.g.
Re: TWo questions. One for Flute Player, the other for box players
I like that idea. I'd volunteer if I were in the area...
# Posted on May 5th 2008 by ceolachan
I meant the shock therapy suggested by Laitch...
# Posted on May 5th 2008 by ceolachan
New Flute ~
Good point also, from s.g. ~ once your daughter has found a make she is fond of, the option of adding keys is a good one, especially for someone with a silver flute background ~ if the maker offers that...
# Posted on May 5th 2008 by ceolachan
Re: TWo questions. One for Flute Player, the other for box players
FLUTE: http://www.caseyburnsflutes.com/
# Posted on May 5th 2008 by joesmith
Re: TWo questions. One for Flute Player, the other for box players
I'm strongly of the opinion that a competent and adult musician should be able to choose her own instrument, and just producing one on her birthday might not be the kindest thing you could do for her. The only exception would be if she is already talking about some particular make or type.
Why not just say that you will be happy to fund her purchase up to whatever price - at 25 she presumably has some income of her own to add to this if needed - and let her make an informed and personal choice rather than you trying to do it for her. Or find somewhere that sells what you want to buy her, take her along to choose, and wave your chequebook or credit card.
# Posted on May 5th 2008 by Guernsey Pete
Re: TWo questions. One for Flute Player, the other for box players
Nice one GP, you said directly what I was fuffin' about... So dear Zippy, there are two of us of that mind, GP and me... She is 25 and already an accomplished player of the silver flute!
# Posted on May 5th 2008 by ceolachan
Re: TWo questions. One for Flute Player, the other for box players
GRUNTING: Don't stop, just do it when you're about to change tunes in the set. See if you can change it over to "Hup!" instead.
# Posted on May 5th 2008 by SWFL Fiddler
Re: TWo questions. One for Flute Player, the other for box players
Is the "GRUNT!" on the down beat of the up beat?
# Posted on May 5th 2008 by ceolachan
Re: TWo questions. One for Flute Player, the other for box players
I use to play with a banjo player who grunted even when he wasn't playing. He called it talking....... The grunting while playing the diatonic box is caused by the tendency to breath in or out with the direction of the bellows. You are just breathing out loud. I've been playing the box for years and although I don't grunt I still find it hard to talk and play at the same time I have great admiration for people who can play and sing, especially while playing a diatonic.
# Posted on May 5th 2008 by Free Reed
Re: TWo questions. One for Flute Player, the other for box players
My box teacher gave me the assignment to talk and play at the same time. I am at one and three-quarters works in reasonable succession. It is woeful.
GP and others....The idea is to let the daughter pick the instrument-it certainly will not be a surprise present. It's just that I am looking for guidance because she is a silver flute player, not a wood flute player and I will probably be part of the process...
The part that pays for it! Also, the question was intended to get a feeling for what quality various prices buy.
I am glad to hear there are other grunters out there. But my teacher say he doesn't want a grunter out there who is identified as one of his students '-)
# Posted on May 5th 2008 by zippydw
Re: TWo questions. One for Flute Player, the other for box players
can't type for c##p.
first line- three quarters "words"
# Posted on May 5th 2008 by zippydw
Re: TWo questions. One for Flute Player, the other for box players
My sympathies to your teacher...
# Posted on May 5th 2008 by ceolachan
Re: TWo questions. One for Flute Player, the other for box players
Zippy: Terry McGee (Australia) could be an option, even though she won't be able to pick an instrument. Terry makes the modern Boehm (silver) flute embouchure hole in wood which is what your daughter is used to, so she might find the transition easier. Casey Burns is also a great maker who retrofits keys and works in the states. Buying local is certainly a good idea, especially due to the low dollar rate.
# Posted on May 5th 2008 by s.g.
Re: TWo questions. One for Flute Player, the other for box players
thanks
I want to try to by domestic with the exchange rate
# Posted on May 5th 2008 by zippydw
Re: TWo questions. One for Flute Player, the other for box players
Re the box question.
I have noticed myself doing this too, but very quietly. I think it's because the box is such a "whole-body" instrument. The bellows are like your lungs, and I still find myself breathing in on the draw and out on the press. (and filling up my lungs a lot on tunes in A!) The box unlike anything else I've played seems to become part of me when I play - sounds weird, but the grunts are part of that - when you accent or ornament notes, it's hard to separate what your body is doing from what the box is doing. That's the only way I can understand or explain it.
As for what to do about it, I have no idea, other than learn to do it quietly so it won't be noticed!
# Posted on May 5th 2008 by buttons 'n' whistles
Re: TWo questions. One for Flute Player, the other for box players
Regarding the vocalizing: There was an old jazz piano player I used to listen to who used to mumble throughout his performances (Oscar Peterson maybe?). I always liked it. Unless it is wildly out of tune, why fight it?
# Posted on May 6th 2008 by AlBrown
Re: TWo questions. One for Flute Player, the other for box players
try 2 record yourself and play it back after it works!!
# Posted on May 6th 2008 by accordian ace
Re: TWo questions. One for Flute Player, the other for box players
Recording is how I confirmed I was grunting! No pattern. I am trying to see if there is a particular circumstance or move where it happens.
BnW- I am glad I am not the only one....And like the old Jazz piano player, I have been accused of talking to myself when I play the piano at church...particulary some of that aweful...oh that's for another website. Everyone knows my feelings about the Catholic Music Mill in Chicago.
# Posted on May 6th 2008 by zippydw