Well, I have to admit I'm not specially interested in Polish music, but I'm invited to a birthday this afterrnoon and the guy comes from Poland, so I thought it would be a nice idea to play some Polish music for him.
Polish people dont know too much about Polish trad music. There are about three or four melodies that they will recognize as their own (usually because they became drinking or football match songs).
3. Another drinking song, about leaving homeland for work, very popular when you've drunk yourself sad; play it rather slow, like an English waltz: http://a-pesni.golosa.info/polsk/goralu.gif
4. Not a folk melody, but the best known Polish tune, which is "Sto lat" (may you live 100 years), which is sung on birthdays, anniversaries and other occasions, as a praise to the adresse:
The "Polish Dance" site presents results of a research project conducted by Prof. Maja Trochimczyk with her assistant, Michał Jankowski; the project has been sponsored by the Southern California Studies Center at USC. For more information about the history of the dance groups, the reception and significance of dance for Polish immigrants to Southern California, and the discussion of an opinion survey conducted in 1999 among Polish-American community members in the Los Angeles area please request a copy of Dr. Trochimczyk's report "Dance as Identity Symbol: Polish Dance in Southern California" (August 2001) from the Southern California Studies Center.
Since Ptarm's first quest I've been desperately trying to remember an online source that had quite a few transcriptions of music for the dance, but as yet I've had no luck... I will keep looking, and I have yet to ask my Polish fiddling friend, if I can find a current contact for him...
Zakopane ~ It seems it has become 'polished' since I first knew about this gathering. It started with a strong instrumental focus. Janek's account in this discussion sounds akin to the sweeping changes that have swamped the Willie Clancy Summer School with dance, though not 'exact'.
Doing online searches for these should pull up some useful website resources, including the one I haven't been able to remember. I'm off or I'd do some searching just to satisfy my struggling memory...
Polka & Polonaise have had a wide influence on dance cultures in many places, including Ireland, so doing searches on these would end up with too broad and general a result...
Ceolachan, I am in constant admiration of your knowledge of Polish folk dance, which certainly goes way beyond what a vast majority of my fellow countrymen know about their traditional culture. Fair play to you.
Who luvs yuh Janek, and my wife and I are also fond of the food too...
The festival I remember, from the deep past, based in the mountains, was built around the bagpipe. Maybe that is what has become Zakopane. I remember reading a history of the gathering, shepherds and bagpipers from all over used to go, including some uilleann pipers from Ireland in attendance over the history of the event. I wish I had my books and notes here so I could dig out more. It had always been my hope to make it there but I still haven't had that wish fulfilled. I also wanted to chase up some wood from the Carpathians, in particular some blanks of red cedar, a tree species introduced there from North America and a wonderful soundwood... I even had a friend who made contacts with sources there and was supposedly going to get me some wood ~ but it never happened. I live in hope...
As far as I know, the dance Kujawiak is not strictly a Polish folk dance, but where do you draw the line? It is a choreographed waltz for a circle of couples and very much a 'dated' ballroom dance. The only folky element is the stamp in each eighth measure and the knee slaps. The only one of those popular 19th century ballroom dances that can truly be called of Polish folk origin is the mazurka. (The polka was discovered in 1830 in Bohemia.) The original Polish mazurka doesn't seem to resemble what happened to that dance when it got to France and Germany.
In "A History of Folk Dance in Europe" ( Een Geschiedenis van de Volksdans in Europa by Pomme Schröder) I cite (freely translated): "This dance brought the spirit of the Slavic people to the west.....it is a dance with a tremendous freedom....with many step variations.......beginning with a polonaise and a leader.......but the individual dancer can be creative....a dance that can be strong or graceful.
That's still the style of the mazurka as I know it too.
Other dances frequently danced as Polish folk dances are variations on the Scottisch, polka and waltz with a Polish character. But all these come from elsewhere. The clothing (in a performance), the tunes and the dance choreography help make the dances look Polish.
Yes C.N., that division again, simplified to just two, between the classical and performance forms, the ballroom and stage, as in contrast to the village, folk or 'highland' forms. Trying to tie down sources for dance is something akin to trying to pin a sample of oxygen to a cork board with a nail... It is more like a living thing, it moves and changes. It is always more convenient to make the easy option ~ "The polka was discovered in 1830 in Bohemia." Even if true, the very act of 'discovery' and dissimination changes it yet again... Polish dance and music is what the Polish choose to take to their hearts and claim and play with, rather than what academics might like to pigeon hole, myself included. We are a generally clumsy lot... 'Science', in its truly inquisitive and open form is not so free with making statements, or shouldn't be... It is more about possibilities and propositions. The Polish, like most of Europe, was not cut off from the latest fads, including the sets of quadrilles and "Saturday Night Fever"...
Janek, you were right about Polish people not knowing much about Polish music...and not being interested either! I did not come further than "Sto lat".
Well, never mind, at least it was my first time playing fiddle on a carriage drawn by two music-loving ponies!
Polish music
Polish music
Does anyone happen to know where I can find some Polish sheet music on the web? Any Polish tunes here on thesession.org?
Thanks a lot!
# Posted on May 3rd 2008 by Floh
Re: Polish music
What's that with Polish music all of a sudden?
http://www.thesession.org/discussions/display/17604
# Posted on May 3rd 2008 by Henk Bos
Re: Polish music
Well, I have to admit I'm not specially interested in Polish music, but I'm invited to a birthday this afterrnoon and the guy comes from Poland, so I thought it would be a nice idea to play some Polish music for him.
Found this in the meantime:
http://www.leeds.ac.uk/music/Info/RRTuneBk/Alltunes/Alltunes.country.html#Poland
# Posted on May 3rd 2008 by Floh
Re: Polish music
That's very kind of you. Hope you'll do a fine job !
# Posted on May 3rd 2008 by Henk Bos
Re: Polish music
Anyhow I guess he wouldn't realize if I played an Irish polka and told him it comes from Gdansk
I would still be thankful for any suggestion...
# Posted on May 3rd 2008 by Floh
Re: Polish music
Polish people dont know too much about Polish trad music. There are about three or four melodies that they will recognize as their own (usually because they became drinking or football match songs).
Try these:
1. Hej, Sokoly - number 1 in any drinking binge:
http://www.spzb-ek.opalnet.pl/publikacje/Muzyka/sokoly.gif
Play it with a lot of stress on 1st beat, like a march.
2. Poszla Karolinka - a merry song, quite well known:
http://www.spzb-ek.opalnet.pl/publikacje/Muzyka/karolinka.gif
Not too fast, rather like leisurely jig.
3. Another drinking song, about leaving homeland for work, very popular when you've drunk yourself sad; play it rather slow, like an English waltz:
http://a-pesni.golosa.info/polsk/goralu.gif
4. Not a folk melody, but the best known Polish tune, which is "Sto lat" (may you live 100 years), which is sung on birthdays, anniversaries and other occasions, as a praise to the adresse:
http://www.zspgranowo.com/html/szkola_marzen/flazolety/warszt7.jpg
Hope this helps.
# Posted on May 3rd 2008 by Janek
Re: Polish music
Great!!!
Thanks a lot, Janek.
Just the thing I was looking for.
# Posted on May 3rd 2008 by Floh
Re: Polish music
"What's that with Polish music all of a sudden?"
Hey Henk, perhaps you should check these links out:
'The Polish-Ireland connection':
http://networkeurope.radio.cz/feature/the-polish-ireland-connection
Ireland shocked by murder of Polish immigrants
"among up to 100000 Polish migrants who have arrived in recent years":
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/europe/ireland-shocked-by-murder-of-polish-immigrants-790001.html
You might be interested in this one too, Floh:
Unofficial Anthem of Polish Community in Ireland:
http://blog.sebastiankruk.com/2007/07/unofficial-anthem-of-polish-community.html
Perhaps now, you see where I'm coming from?
Cheers
Dick
# Posted on May 3rd 2008 by Ptarmigan
Re: Polish music
Janek, you're a gem, and 6-hole whistle notation too...
# Posted on May 3rd 2008 by ceolachan
Re: Polish music & Polish dance
Polish Dance
http://www.usc.edu/dept/polish_music/dance/index.html
Góralski / Krakowiak / Kujawiak / Mazur / Oberek / Polka / Polonaise / Zbójnicki
The "Polish Dance" site presents results of a research project conducted by Prof. Maja Trochimczyk with her assistant, Michał Jankowski; the project has been sponsored by the Southern California Studies Center at USC. For more information about the history of the dance groups, the reception and significance of dance for Polish immigrants to Southern California, and the discussion of an opinion survey conducted in 1999 among Polish-American community members in the Los Angeles area please request a copy of Dr. Trochimczyk's report "Dance as Identity Symbol: Polish Dance in Southern California" (August 2001) from the Southern California Studies Center.
# Posted on May 3rd 2008 by ceolachan
Re: Polish music
Janek, I haven't forgotten the clip you put on here some time ago.
It sounded like a Penguin Cafe Orchestra piece played on its side, thrown downstairs and given the full treatment by Frank Zappa!
But I think quite a few of us are curious about Polish tunes and music these days - thanks for the tunes above.
# Posted on May 3rd 2008 by nicholas
Re: Polish music
Here's one of those festivals I was trying to remember for Ptarmigan ~
Zakopane: The International Festival of Highland Folklore
2006 ~ 38th
http://www.zakopane.pl/festiwal_2006/
I believe it is only every other year?
# Posted on May 3rd 2008 by ceolachan
Re: Polish music
Since Ptarm's first quest I've been desperately trying to remember an online source that had quite a few transcriptions of music for the dance, but as yet I've had no luck... I will keep looking, and I have yet to ask my Polish fiddling friend, if I can find a current contact for him...
# Posted on May 3rd 2008 by ceolachan
Re: Polish music
Making the connection ~
Discussion: Where can I listen to really good Polish Music?
# Posted on April 30th 2008 by Ptarmigan
http://www.thesession.org/discussions/display/17604
# Posted on May 3rd 2008 by ceolachan
Re: Polish music
Other links ~
Discussion: The Blue Ridge Mountains of .... Poland
# Posted on July 13th 2005 by Ottery
http://www.thesession.org/discussions/display/7116
Zakopane ~ It seems it has become 'polished'
since I first knew about this gathering. It started with a strong instrumental focus. Janek's account in this discussion sounds akin to the sweeping changes that have swamped the Willie Clancy Summer School with dance, though not 'exact'.
# Posted on May 3rd 2008 by ceolachan
Re: Polish music
Discussion: Irish music band from Poland looking for concerts in Ireland
# Posted on February 1st 2005 by jasiek
http://www.thesession.org/discussions/display/5716
# Posted on May 3rd 2008 by ceolachan
Re: Polish music
Nice one, Ptarm !
# Posted on May 3rd 2008 by Henk Bos
Re: Polish music
Polish ABCs
http://home.quicknet.nl/qn/prive/j.coolegem/abcfolder/poland.abc
You can enter these into Concertina.Net's Tune-O-Tron if you need the dots...
# Posted on May 3rd 2008 by ceolachan
Re: Polish music
A few other ABCs ~ and I still haven't managed to remember that website
http://trillian.mit.edu/~jc/music/ndx/KR.html
Krakov'yak (Krakowiaczek / Krakowiak)
http://trillian.mit.edu/~jc/music/ndx/KU.html
Kujawiak
http://trillian.mit.edu/~jc/music/ndx/MA.html
Mazur
http://trillian.mit.edu/~jc/music/ndx/OB.html
Oberek
http://trillian.mit.edu/~jc/music/ndx/PO.html
The Polish Polka
The Polish Waltz
# Posted on May 3rd 2008 by ceolachan
Re: Polish music
Chodzony ~ Another dance form...
Doing online searches for these should pull up some useful website resources, including the one I haven't been able to remember. I'm off or I'd do some searching just to satisfy my struggling memory...
Góralski / Krakowiak / Kujawiak / Mazur / Oberek / Polka / Polonaise / Zbójnicki
Polka & Polonaise have had a wide influence on dance cultures in many places, including Ireland, so doing searches on these would end up with too broad and general a result...
# Posted on May 3rd 2008 by ceolachan
Re: Polish music
Ceolachan, I am in constant admiration of your knowledge of Polish folk dance, which certainly goes way beyond what a vast majority of my fellow countrymen know about their traditional culture. Fair play to you.
# Posted on May 3rd 2008 by Janek
Re: Polish music
Who luvs yuh Janek, and my wife and I are also fond of the food too...
The festival I remember, from the deep past, based in the mountains, was built around the bagpipe. Maybe that is what has become Zakopane. I remember reading a history of the gathering, shepherds and bagpipers from all over used to go, including some uilleann pipers from Ireland in attendance over the history of the event. I wish I had my books and notes here so I could dig out more. It had always been my hope to make it there but I still haven't had that wish fulfilled. I also wanted to chase up some wood from the Carpathians, in particular some blanks of red cedar, a tree species introduced there from North America and a wonderful soundwood... I even had a friend who made contacts with sources there and was supposedly going to get me some wood ~ but it never happened. I live in hope...
# Posted on May 3rd 2008 by ceolachan
Not red cedar ~ red spruce...
# Posted on May 3rd 2008 by ceolachan
Re: Polish music
Did Bobby Vinton come out of retirement?
—or is he changing lightbulbs for a living?
# Posted on May 4th 2008 by Sir Dungsmere
Re: Polish music
As far as I know, the dance Kujawiak is not strictly a Polish folk dance, but where do you draw the line? It is a choreographed waltz for a circle of couples and very much a 'dated' ballroom dance. The only folky element is the stamp in each eighth measure and the knee slaps. The only one of those popular 19th century ballroom dances that can truly be called of Polish folk origin is the mazurka. (The polka was discovered in 1830 in Bohemia.) The original Polish mazurka doesn't seem to resemble what happened to that dance when it got to France and Germany.
In "A History of Folk Dance in Europe" ( Een Geschiedenis van de Volksdans in Europa by Pomme Schröder) I cite (freely translated): "This dance brought the spirit of the Slavic people to the west.....it is a dance with a tremendous freedom....with many step variations.......beginning with a polonaise and a leader.......but the individual dancer can be creative....a dance that can be strong or graceful.
That's still the style of the mazurka as I know it too.
Other dances frequently danced as Polish folk dances are variations on the Scottisch, polka and waltz with a Polish character. But all these come from elsewhere. The clothing (in a performance), the tunes and the dance choreography help make the dances look Polish.
# Posted on May 4th 2008 by C. Nicolas
Re: Polish music
Yes C.N., that division again, simplified to just two, between the classical and performance forms, the ballroom and stage, as in contrast to the village, folk or 'highland' forms. Trying to tie down sources for dance is something akin to trying to pin a sample of oxygen to a cork board with a nail... It is more like a living thing, it moves and changes. It is always more convenient to make the easy option ~ "The polka was discovered in 1830 in Bohemia." Even if true, the very act of 'discovery' and dissimination changes it yet again... Polish dance and music is what the Polish choose to take to their hearts and claim and play with, rather than what academics might like to pigeon hole, myself included. We are a generally clumsy lot... 'Science', in its truly inquisitive and open form is not so free with making statements, or shouldn't be... It is more about possibilities and propositions. The Polish, like most of Europe, was not cut off from the latest fads, including the sets of quadrilles and "Saturday Night Fever"...
# Posted on May 4th 2008 by ceolachan
Re: Polish music
Janek, you were right about Polish people not knowing much about Polish music...and not being interested either! I did not come further than "Sto lat".
Well, never mind, at least it was my first time playing fiddle on a carriage drawn by two music-loving ponies!
# Posted on May 4th 2008 by Floh