Unintentional back handed compliments (how to respond)
Unintentional back handed compliments (how to respond)
I'm sure it's happened to everyone, a well meaning punter or a newbie comes up & says, "You're pretty good but you should listen to *Insert bluegrass, jazz, classical player here* Now s/he can really play." Often times goes on to include, "Now Irish music is alright, but it just can't compare to *insert genre here*." I usually just smile, and against my own opinions agree with them. How is one supposed to deal with a comment like this?
Re: Unintentional back handed compliments (how to respond)
Flatten your hand, fingers extended, with the thumb tightly curled and tucked. Slightly flex your middle finger so the tips of the three main fingers are the same length. Stiffen the fingers. This is Kwon-Soo, the Spear Hand. Strike your enemy at the notch just below the adam’s apple, where the clavicles and sternum meet.
Re: Unintentional back handed compliments (how to respond)
I go for the LCD approach-pick the most bland, inoffensive player or music you can think of and say something like, "mind you, we ALL could learn a thing or 2 from..". In guitar circles the names Eric Clapton and Mark Knopfler work miracles. In the "guitarworld' the people ur referring to (ie know-it-alls) always seem to hold these 2 in awe. my guess in ITM would be to say something like, "mind you those Corrs girls have been a breath of fresh air" or somesuch. Or Flatley..u get the gist.
alternatively, change the subject with "so are you a musician? what do you play etc etc " - they are always happy to tell u
Re: Unintentional back handed compliments (how to respond)
hakanozel, I think that's sage advice - esp shifting the subject back to the person asking the question. There's no animosity on the askers end, so to give them an attitude about their question would just make me look like an irrational prick. I find you gather a lot more honey with sugar anyway - I'm not saying I'll lie just to make them like me, but there's no use arguing with a bonehead.
Re: Unintentional back handed compliments (how to respond)
If anyone is dimwitted enough to engage me in such conversation, I prefer not to encourage them. A grunt, a sip on my pint and a "Uh huh, say why don't you ask our guitar player (or whoever it is I'm steamed at that night)" usually takes care of it for me.
You're all so civilised and polite! What you want is something on the fine borderline between surreal humour and physical violence and getting arrested.
Like, beckon the guy as if you wanted to whisper in his ear, then when he's real close, lick his face. What happens next depends on the response. You gotta look very serious and stern....anybody know that story of the painter Magritte ? He got visited by that sort of person. Invited him in to await the arrival of his wife, or something. Magritte ushered him towards the sitting room, and as he entered kicked him hard up the backside. The guy was very shocked. But Magritte just behaved as if nothing had happened. The two sat down in complete silence, until the wife arrived and the guy fled...
Re: Unintentional back handed compliments (how to respond)
Give the person a disarming look and say - "Ah, we may not be up to much, but with *us*, what you see is what you get!.."
i.e., "*Our* music is poor but honest. It is not recorded, mixed, produced, transmitted, mutated and for all I know played with apparatus that makes Reagan's Star Wars programme look modest and endearing. Our nostrils have not entertained half the exported product of Colombia. Our deportment at chucking-out time does not merit extensive and continual coverage in the tabloids. We lack bling, huge shades, tacky haciendas and pet leopards. We do not consist of bits of several other people cobbled up with silicone and plastic. Our children grow up unpressurised and wholesome and are not hot-housed into monsterhood. Nor do we delight in pictures of young female Classical musicians with nothing on, and we pity them having to sell albums that way - it's something we would never stoop to ourselves". (Read: Of course we do, though we don't buy their albums; and we fully realise that equivalent images of ourselves wouldn't get shown in the most hardened avant-garde arts centre.)
- Etcetera. Then despatch the person with a cheerful wave and a parting injunction, "Don't judge Irish music by him, him, her and him, by the way,'cos they're bloody terrible..." - and off he or she will go, duly chastened, to discover at leisure and hopefully in another town the extent to which ITM and the baleful things I've enumerated actually overlap.
Re: Unintentional back handed compliments (how to respond)
Mark Knofler- he's the guy with the immaculate Lotus 23 that goes vintage car racing with Lord March at the Festival of Speed- that Mark Knopfler.....right????
Re: Unintentional back handed compliments (how to respond)
I usually use the ambiguous 'hmm' sort of answer, myself. A couple of people have actually said to me, "Now, that Charlie Daniels, he's a really great fiddler." (Which he is not, of course, by his own admission.) I just don't know what to say to those people.
I think maybe next time I will say nothing at all, just give them a "Oh, you poor thing!" look before walking away. But I will consider the Spear Hand approach too.
Re: Unintentional back handed compliments (how to respond)
"Walk two steps toward that spot, glance up a moment then back at the person. "
Optional insertion : pretend to trip and stumble, almost falling. Turn round and inspect floor where you tripped. Bend down, pick up invisible object, pretend to pop it in your mouth and walk away chewing....
Re: Unintentional back handed compliments (how to respond)
Wolf—yours is an equally workable solution. Had I employed that on the night in question, it is likely that a different woman would have then asked to be my bride.
Re: Unintentional back handed compliments (how to respond)
While it is appealing to jab them with your bow ect, ect, what you have to remember is that they generally have no F#@king clue what they are talking about, and are merely saying the first thing that comes to mind that (they think) makes them sound as if they do.
Pity them, their ego's wont let them say "wow, that sound cool. What is it?" Instead they must pretend that they are in the know.
arlo
Re: Unintentional back handed compliments (how to respond)
Reminds me of a gig we did for the last night of a publican who was moving on.
Bloke who seemed to be doing a great job on the free beer says this irish stuff is ok but why don't we play some AUSTRALIAN music!! Then he whinges for a while and starts a bit of heckling, which , given the noise in the pub, no one takes any notice of.
In the end, he claims he can sing so we hand him the mic, and just as he gets started the whole band looks at each other , nods and walks off to the bar.
One very embarrassed Thongman ( as he became known later, it was 10pm and he was still staggering around in flip flops and boardshorts, in winter!) left the pub and was never seen again.
Re: Unintentional back handed compliments (how to respond)
I like the ideas of using various types of violence as a means of persuasion...but I'd never do them. Really it's just water off a duck's back. You should be secure in the knowledge that as a player you are the person who is calling the shots here, by the very fact that said punter is by making his comment, responding to *you*. He just has the need to say something cos he can't do it himself, and by trying to compare you to some jazz maestro or whatever, he is attempting to display his knowledge of music, thinking that by knowing a bit about it is just as good as doing it. And how wrong he is. The world is littered with armchair musicians and wannabes, so just smile graciously, say thanks, and think "you ar$ehole."
Re: Unintentional back handed compliments (how to respond)
thanks for the advice all,
when this kind of thing happens, for whatever the reason, it makes me feel like they're ripping me personally. I know It's my own problem with my ego & I should shrug it off. All those years of practicing have just been disregarded by one comment. I usually just take it for what it's worth, but being a father I feel obligated to correct grievous social blunders. Lines like "Maddy, share!", "Brendan, don't hit your sister!" are so common for me - I have to bit my lip & from saying "Dingbat, use some common decency!" to somone in this situation.
Maybe the next time, I'll level with them - if they seem worth it.
Re: Unintentional back handed compliments (how to respond)
I've never had quite that kind of thing but the band I was in played a birthday party last year and the guy refused to pay us because we couldn't play a country song. In the end we just refused to leave until he paid us. Lucky he did really or we'd be there still.....
Re: Unintentional back handed compliments (how to respond)
one more thing that ive noticed time and time again in these situations over the years..almost EVERY time someone says something like this it turns out they USED to play music but gave it up for one reason or another. After talking to them for a couple of minutes I'm usually left with a sense of sadness rather than annoyance-often i get a very strong sense of regret from them that they used to be a "doer" and now their only outlet is "advising". often i walk away not feeling annoyance but gratitude that i play music, and a renewed sense of how "magical" musicianship is to someone without it (or who no longer uses it). I've lost count of the times ths has happened. For me those are incredibly important encounters, because they remind me NEVER to take for granted this wonderful gift we have.
Re: Unintentional back handed compliments (how to respond)
I don't think this phenomenon is restricted to music...if you've got a motorbike guys'll come and tell how they're uncle had a Norton, if you're doing wildlife consevation, they'll tell you they have a tame squirrel in their garden, and so on...the point is, when folks give you point scoring put downs disguised as compliments or friendliness. When they go away, you're left with a residue of being diminished, annoyance, frustration, anger, that they got away with being insulting. There are zillions of people like that. They're in jobs they dislike with people they dislike and they develop the skill of being very irritating without being openly insulting. I think it's called 'passive aggression', isn't it ?
Re: Unintentional back handed compliments (how to respond)
A friend was playing with an Irish group that was performing in some pub. The climax of one set was him and another guy playing The Gravel Walk on twin mandolins at 100 miles an hour. Immediately after the last note, a drunk patron yells out "now why don't you fellers do some REAL pickin' like Bluegrass!"
Unintentional back handed compliments (how to respond)
Unintentional back handed compliments (how to respond)
I'm sure it's happened to everyone, a well meaning punter or a newbie comes up & says, "You're pretty good but you should listen to *Insert bluegrass, jazz, classical player here* Now s/he can really play." Often times goes on to include, "Now Irish music is alright, but it just can't compare to *insert genre here*." I usually just smile, and against my own opinions agree with them. How is one supposed to deal with a comment like this?
# Posted on May 1st 2008 by Mad Baloney
Re: Unintentional back handed compliments (how to respond)
Lie down Croppie, lie down
# Posted on May 1st 2008 by Patkiwi
Re: Unintentional back handed compliments (how to respond)
I would nod politely, walk away, and refill my whiskey.
Peace,
Ed
# Posted on May 1st 2008 by ejsant
Re: Unintentional back handed compliments (how to respond)
Flatten your hand, fingers extended, with the thumb tightly curled and tucked. Slightly flex your middle finger so the tips of the three main fingers are the same length. Stiffen the fingers. This is Kwon-Soo, the Spear Hand. Strike your enemy at the notch just below the adam’s apple, where the clavicles and sternum meet.
# Posted on May 1st 2008 by fidkid
Re: Unintentional back handed compliments (how to respond)
"Well play us a *insert stated genre* tune, then"
# Posted on May 1st 2008 by the wounded hussar
Re: Unintentional back handed compliments (how to respond)
I go for the LCD approach-pick the most bland, inoffensive player or music you can think of and say something like, "mind you, we ALL could learn a thing or 2 from..". In guitar circles the names Eric Clapton and Mark Knopfler work miracles. In the "guitarworld' the people ur referring to (ie know-it-alls) always seem to hold these 2 in awe. my guess in ITM would be to say something like, "mind you those Corrs girls have been a breath of fresh air" or somesuch. Or Flatley..u get the gist.
alternatively, change the subject with "so are you a musician? what do you play etc etc " - they are always happy to tell u
# Posted on May 1st 2008 by hakanozel
Re: Unintentional back handed compliments (how to respond)
Usually a poke in the eye with the bow solves these sort of issues, though I liked fidkid's martial arts approach.
# Posted on May 1st 2008 by SWFL Fiddler
Re: Unintentional back handed compliments (how to respond)
"Ah, right, thank you" for the first.
"Ah, right, how interesting" for the second.
(Pretty much Ed's answer.)
# Posted on May 1st 2008 by TomB-R
Re: Unintentional back handed compliments (how to respond)
hakanozel, I think that's sage advice - esp shifting the subject back to the person asking the question. There's no animosity on the askers end, so to give them an attitude about their question would just make me look like an irrational prick. I find you gather a lot more honey with sugar anyway - I'm not saying I'll lie just to make them like me, but there's no use arguing with a bonehead.
# Posted on May 1st 2008 by Mad Baloney
Re: Unintentional back handed compliments (how to respond)
Yes, sorry, the above was the internet answer. For reality, smiles and nods are about all I can manage.
# Posted on May 1st 2008 by SWFL Fiddler
Re: Unintentional back handed compliments (how to respond)
Reply innocently that "Gosh you've never heard of (insert famous artist)" and stand back and watch the incredulous fireworks.
"Eric Clapton! You've never bloody heard of Eric Clapton?"
"Um, no, is he a musician?"
etc...
The dumb-struck person usually walks away shaking their head and you can quickly return to your tunes.
# Posted on May 1st 2008 by Jusa Nutter Eejit
Re: Unintentional back handed compliments (how to respond)
If anyone is dimwitted enough to engage me in such conversation, I prefer not to encourage them. A grunt, a sip on my pint and a "Uh huh, say why don't you ask our guitar player (or whoever it is I'm steamed at that night)" usually takes care of it for me.
# Posted on May 1st 2008 by daddae
Re: Unintentional back handed compliments (how to respond)
I nod politely, say "Indeed", and reflect that it's a tough & lonely station being a Holy Man in Babylon, so it is.
I've never heard of Mark Knopfler - I take it one of the extensive band of people reputed to be The Best Guitarist In The World ?
# Posted on May 1st 2008 by Sean Lead Liath
Re: Unintentional back handed compliments (how to respond)
How about... "Come on...give us a break...I only started learning the bloody thing last week".
# Posted on May 1st 2008 by Free Reed
Re: Unintentional back handed compliments (how to respond)
"I've never heard of Mark Knopfler" Shame!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_EyoXb4DtHA
# Posted on May 1st 2008 by wolfbird
Re: Unintentional back handed compliments (how to respond)
Say "excuse me..." and throw up on their shoes.
# Posted on May 1st 2008 by Seosamh Ui Sinan
Re: Unintentional back handed compliments (how to respond)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k5JkHBC5lDs&feature=related
That one's bit better.
You're all so civilised and polite! What you want is something on the fine borderline between surreal humour and physical violence and getting arrested.
Like, beckon the guy as if you wanted to whisper in his ear, then when he's real close, lick his face. What happens next depends on the response. You gotta look very serious and stern....anybody know that story of the painter Magritte ? He got visited by that sort of person. Invited him in to await the arrival of his wife, or something. Magritte ushered him towards the sitting room, and as he entered kicked him hard up the backside. The guy was very shocked. But Magritte just behaved as if nothing had happened. The two sat down in complete silence, until the wife arrived and the guy fled...
# Posted on May 1st 2008 by wolfbird
Re: Unintentional back handed compliments (how to respond)
Give the person a disarming look and say - "Ah, we may not be up to much, but with *us*, what you see is what you get!.."
i.e., "*Our* music is poor but honest. It is not recorded, mixed, produced, transmitted, mutated and for all I know played with apparatus that makes Reagan's Star Wars programme look modest and endearing. Our nostrils have not entertained half the exported product of Colombia. Our deportment at chucking-out time does not merit extensive and continual coverage in the tabloids. We lack bling, huge shades, tacky haciendas and pet leopards. We do not consist of bits of several other people cobbled up with silicone and plastic. Our children grow up unpressurised and wholesome and are not hot-housed into monsterhood. Nor do we delight in pictures of young female Classical musicians with nothing on, and we pity them having to sell albums that way - it's something we would never stoop to ourselves". (Read: Of course we do, though we don't buy their albums; and we fully realise that equivalent images of ourselves wouldn't get shown in the most hardened avant-garde arts centre.)
- Etcetera. Then despatch the person with a cheerful wave and a parting injunction, "Don't judge Irish music by him, him, her and him, by the way,'cos they're bloody terrible..." - and off he or she will go, duly chastened, to discover at leisure and hopefully in another town the extent to which ITM and the baleful things I've enumerated actually overlap.
# Posted on May 1st 2008 by nicholas
Re: Unintentional back handed compliments (how to respond)
Mark Knofler- he's the guy with the immaculate Lotus 23 that goes vintage car racing with Lord March at the Festival of Speed- that Mark Knopfler.....right????
Windup-windup
# Posted on May 1st 2008 by I_Fel
Re: Unintentional back handed compliments (how to respond)
I usually use the ambiguous 'hmm' sort of answer, myself. A couple of people have actually said to me, "Now, that Charlie Daniels, he's a really great fiddler." (Which he is not, of course, by his own admission.) I just don't know what to say to those people.
I think maybe next time I will say nothing at all, just give them a "Oh, you poor thing!" look before walking away. But I will consider the Spear Hand approach too.
# Posted on May 1st 2008 by mickray
Re: Unintentional back handed compliments (how to respond)
I recently heard of Mark Knopfler, a CD called "Ragpicker's Dream".
Really nice folk singer. Then my child tells me he played with a rock group.
Never played with mediocre players like Clapton.
# Posted on May 1st 2008 by bodhran bliss
Re: Unintentional back handed compliments (how to respond)
Grab the person's arm, look vaguely toward a spot on the ceiling and say, 'Wait...did you hear that?'
Walk two steps toward that spot, glance up a moment then back at the person. Raise your eyebrows, shrug, shun him/her thereafter.
It's how I met my wife.
P.S. Chinless wonders like Clapton could never be God, not even in the 1960s. Flowing white beards require a powerful jawline beneath.
# Posted on May 1st 2008 by NEW Pure Drop® Ear Canal Oil
Re: Unintentional back handed compliments (how to respond)
"Walk two steps toward that spot, glance up a moment then back at the person. "
Optional insertion : pretend to trip and stumble, almost falling. Turn round and inspect floor where you tripped. Bend down, pick up invisible object, pretend to pop it in your mouth and walk away chewing....
P.S. That's not how I met my wife(s).
# Posted on May 1st 2008 by wolfbird
Re: Unintentional back handed compliments (how to respond)
Wolf—yours is an equally workable solution. Had I employed that on the night in question, it is likely that a different woman would have then asked to be my bride.
# Posted on May 1st 2008 by NEW Pure Drop® Ear Canal Oil
Re: Unintentional back handed compliments (how to respond)
Aah, NEW Pure Drop® Ear Canal Oil, the hand of fate...hope you made the right choice
# Posted on May 1st 2008 by wolfbird
Re: Unintentional back handed compliments (how to respond)
While it is appealing to jab them with your bow ect, ect, what you have to remember is that they generally have no F#@king clue what they are talking about, and are merely saying the first thing that comes to mind that (they think) makes them sound as if they do.
Pity them, their ego's wont let them say "wow, that sound cool. What is it?" Instead they must pretend that they are in the know.
arlo
# Posted on May 2nd 2008 by Fellenbaum
Re: Unintentional back handed compliments (how to respond)
eggsackly
# Posted on May 2nd 2008 by Mad Baloney
Re: Unintentional back handed compliments (how to respond)
Point over their shoulder and say, "oh look, a decoy..." and walk off. When they look back you have gone...
# Posted on May 2nd 2008 by cag
Re: Unintentional back handed compliments (how to respond)
Reminds me of a gig we did for the last night of a publican who was moving on.
Bloke who seemed to be doing a great job on the free beer says this irish stuff is ok but why don't we play some AUSTRALIAN music!! Then he whinges for a while and starts a bit of heckling, which , given the noise in the pub, no one takes any notice of.
In the end, he claims he can sing so we hand him the mic, and just as he gets started the whole band looks at each other , nods and walks off to the bar.
One very embarrassed Thongman ( as he became known later, it was 10pm and he was still staggering around in flip flops and boardshorts, in winter!) left the pub and was never seen again.
# Posted on May 2nd 2008 by whistlers brother
Re: Unintentional back handed compliments (how to respond)
I like the ideas of using various types of violence as a means of persuasion...but I'd never do them. Really it's just water off a duck's back. You should be secure in the knowledge that as a player you are the person who is calling the shots here, by the very fact that said punter is by making his comment, responding to *you*. He just has the need to say something cos he can't do it himself, and by trying to compare you to some jazz maestro or whatever, he is attempting to display his knowledge of music, thinking that by knowing a bit about it is just as good as doing it. And how wrong he is. The world is littered with armchair musicians and wannabes, so just smile graciously, say thanks, and think "you ar$ehole."
# Posted on May 2nd 2008 by Key Maniac Lad
Re: Unintentional back handed compliments (how to respond)
thanks for the advice all,
when this kind of thing happens, for whatever the reason, it makes me feel like they're ripping me personally. I know It's my own problem with my ego & I should shrug it off. All those years of practicing have just been disregarded by one comment. I usually just take it for what it's worth, but being a father I feel obligated to correct grievous social blunders. Lines like "Maddy, share!", "Brendan, don't hit your sister!" are so common for me - I have to bit my lip & from saying "Dingbat, use some common decency!" to somone in this situation.
Maybe the next time, I'll level with them - if they seem worth it.
# Posted on May 2nd 2008 by Mad Baloney
Re: Unintentional back handed compliments (how to respond)
I've never had quite that kind of thing but the band I was in played a birthday party last year and the guy refused to pay us because we couldn't play a country song. In the end we just refused to leave until he paid us. Lucky he did really or we'd be there still.....
# Posted on May 2nd 2008 by An Kammneves
Re: Unintentional back handed compliments (how to respond)
one more thing that ive noticed time and time again in these situations over the years..almost EVERY time someone says something like this it turns out they USED to play music but gave it up for one reason or another. After talking to them for a couple of minutes I'm usually left with a sense of sadness rather than annoyance-often i get a very strong sense of regret from them that they used to be a "doer" and now their only outlet is "advising". often i walk away not feeling annoyance but gratitude that i play music, and a renewed sense of how "magical" musicianship is to someone without it (or who no longer uses it). I've lost count of the times ths has happened. For me those are incredibly important encounters, because they remind me NEVER to take for granted this wonderful gift we have.
# Posted on May 2nd 2008 by hakanozel
Re: Unintentional back handed compliments (how to respond)
I don't think this phenomenon is restricted to music...if you've got a motorbike guys'll come and tell how they're uncle had a Norton, if you're doing wildlife consevation, they'll tell you they have a tame squirrel in their garden, and so on...the point is, when folks give you point scoring put downs disguised as compliments or friendliness. When they go away, you're left with a residue of being diminished, annoyance, frustration, anger, that they got away with being insulting. There are zillions of people like that. They're in jobs they dislike with people they dislike and they develop the skill of being very irritating without being openly insulting. I think it's called 'passive aggression', isn't it ?
# Posted on May 2nd 2008 by wolfbird
Re: Unintentional back handed compliments (how to respond)
was with a double bass player once when some random idoit tried to be funny and asked him, 'how do you get that under your chin?'
He replied, 'shut your mouth'.
# Posted on May 2nd 2008 by WorzelGummidge
Re: Unintentional back handed compliments (how to respond)
"Now Nortons and Indians and Greeveses won't do
They don't have a soul like a Vincent 52"
# Posted on May 2nd 2008 by hakanozel
Re: Unintentional back handed compliments (how to respond)
Track 10
http://cdbaby.com/cd/michaeljmiles
# Posted on May 2nd 2008 by wolfbird
Re: Unintentional back handed compliments (how to respond)
Two of my uncles, who don't get on, were at a family get together one night at my granny's.
It's traditional for these to become a sing-song later in the evening. Sure enough, before long everyone was doing their party piece.
After one of the aforementioned uncles had finished his song the other said "..I never have a good word to say about you, but that wasn't bad."
# Posted on May 2nd 2008 by Conán McDonnell
Re: Unintentional back handed compliments (how to respond)
A friend was playing with an Irish group that was performing in some pub. The climax of one set was him and another guy playing The Gravel Walk on twin mandolins at 100 miles an hour. Immediately after the last note, a drunk patron yells out "now why don't you fellers do some REAL pickin' like Bluegrass!"
# Posted on May 5th 2008 by Richard D Cook
Re: Unintentional back handed compliments (how to respond)
"Just say NO to punters"
# Posted on May 6th 2008 by hauke