The Session >> Discussions >> Two discussions for the price of one. Off to California, and Pubs
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Two discussions for the price of one. Off to California, and Pubs
Two discussions for the price of one. Off to California, and Pubs
Advice needed on the 'road map' other players use for 'Off to California'. If first phrase is A and second is B, I have heard it played ABB ABB. The other day another player said AABB AABB.
Comments welcome.
Second one. The Washington Post carried an article on the dramatic loss of traditional pubs and the corresponding effects on local culture. Here is the address
Re: Two discussions for the price of one. Off to California, and Pubs
I have always heard Off To California played in the order AABB--AABB.
Since the closest I have come to being in a traditional pub is the local version of Cregeen's, I have no comments about the Washington Post article.
Re: Two discussions for the price of one. Off to California, and Pubs
Zippy, that article struck a cord with me. I see it at home. The village I live in was a different place when I was a kid.
There used to be Carrols clothes shop, Murphy's with the curtains and vases etc and bicycle repair kits, O’Brien’s butchers, Kenny's and O'Hallorans and Gleesons groceries stores, a post office, Slattery’s garage, and three pubs and a convent of mercy / school in the village all based around the church in the middle.
Life for the locals consisted of a quiet pint after work in the evenings and at the weekends the whole parish would attend mass on Sunday morning and gather outside after mass talking and gossiping. It was common to go past the church at three or four, mass having been said at eleven, and still have a group of people chatting away. I could still name the people who stayed there all day talking.
Back then when there were big jobs to do the whole parish would get involved. When John 'Lightnin' had to bring in the hay he would pull up in the village with a tractor and trailer and myself and all the other young lads would just hop on and spend the day forkin bales of hay onto the trailer. We were typical lads, bold out at times often stealing apples from the nun’s orchard but as a community we were all one huge family. As a boy I knew the names of every person in the whole parish and they all knew my family and me. We all had so much time for each other and the pubs were always buzzing with a great atmosphere.
Its so terribly sad how things have changed. Everyone is in such a rush these days. You do your own work now and expect no help. There are people living in the parish now and I haven’t a clue who they are.
All but one of the shops has closed down. Only one pub remains open and the life and soul of the community has died.
Nowadays if you drove up the village after mass you would be lucky to see a cat strolling up the street.
The only connection I can make is that with this newfound prosperity, people don’t feel the need to create bonds with their neighbours because they don’t ‘need’ anyone.
The community family is dead…. and it would break your heart.
Re: Two discussions for the price of one. Off to California, and Pubs
I can sympathise. Its the same in the north of England pubs are closing at an amazing rate. We recently struggled to find a venue to set up a session in Rochdale where once upon a time (not that long ago!) there was a pub on every corner. Those of you in England might well know the work of CAMRA (Campaign for Real Ale) I'm a member because they do sterling work to up the profile of the trad pub. Irish sessions in wine bars doesn't soumnd quite right does it (ps. If you own a wine bar and have a cracking session- no offence intended I'm sure its lovely). We've just found two pubs who have offered us a home, but its taken a while!!!
On the other thing I have always played Off to California AA-BB, if thats any help, but I'll go and get me box and try the other variations - variety is the spice of life so they say!!!!!
Re: Two discussions for the price of one. Off to California, and Pubs
You're not alone savage. Everyone slags off where I grew up in Glasgow in the 60's, Drumchapel; but in those days it was just a massive post-war housing estate and the streets after school were absolutely jam-packed full of kids out playing peever, kick the can, tig and so on. Most of it has now been flattened. There is some redevelopment but that is private housing. The council housing which remains is ghettoised, a druggie's paradise.
Strangely enough, a few miles down towards the centre of Glasgow in Partick, there do remain numerous pubs which are real proper old fashioned boozers. Probably a bit too old-fashioned actually, as I couldn't see a session (a relatively modern phenomenon) ever starting in any of them, (except this one, but it's finished: http://www.thesession.org/sessions/display/113 )
Re: Two discussions for the price of one. Off to California, and Pubs
For all that there's wealth and wealth, what was the standard of living of people who had the small pubs in Ireland in the old days?
I remember a village cafe owner in Greece telling me he made his living working from 6 a.m. to late at night every day of the year without exception. I had no reason to disbelieve him, having been his neighbour for some time. Ireland isn't Greece, but were some of the small bar owners in Ireland tied to their shops and bars like this, working all hours just to get by financially?
Re: Two discussions for the price of one. Off to California, and Pubs
Great, and absolutely true comments, Sean, I see it everywhere, capitalism and greed destroying communities. What you need is a session involving Kevin Burke jamming with The Stone Roses, imagine a fiddle break on I Am The Resurrection, monster, man, monster! What was it they said about the female bodhran player, oh yes, SHE BANGS THE DRUMS.
Re: Two discussions for the price of one. Off to California, and Pubs
SS
Herself is a McFadden (great grandfather-Donegal) and a Shanley (great grand-mother- Mayo)
We went back last year with the intention of trying to find some remnants of old ties. We found Shanley's Clothing Store in Westport. However, on that part of the trip no one was able to shed any light on things.
While Westport is probably not typical of smaller towns being somewhat touristy, Shanley's and the family run stores around it made the trip very special. Very freindly.
In the smaller towns, the shops probably play a bigger part.
It's a shame that with the economic growth, which God knows Ireland deserves, the best parts can't be worked in.
Realistically though, in the States it hasn't worked that way.
Re: Two discussions for the price of one. Off to California, and Pubs
And just when you are getting tired at about 9.00pm, in start rolling the diddley dee ers. All rowdy and up for it 'cause they've finished their day jobs and had their tea. Making the same god awful racket they made last week and the week before and the week before. And have the temerity to keep diddling way after you've called time and get grumpy when you ask 'em to drink up. "One last tune now" you shout, and the feckers play 18 reels back to back. And when you've finally got them to shut up and most of 'em are packing their instruments away and trying to hide their pints under their jackets, two of 'em start a feckin workshop on what's the best way to play Off to California.
So you sell up to a property developer who turns your pub into three flats and you take the profite and off you move to California. And quite right too.
Re: Two discussions for the price of one. Off to California, and Pubs
Many rural pubs made very little money, any only opening at the weekend. Owner have always had at least a farm and usually a job at Eircom to make ends meet. Loads of pubs shut when the owners retire. The fact that owners of big city pubs are willing to pay €150-200K for a licence made a nice pension fund for a lot of pub owners.
Re: Two discussions for the price of one. Off to California, and Pubs
Had to laugh at this quote in the article ..... "Fewer people are farming the valuable rolling green hills around Carney's".....
It would be probably some of the worst farmland in the country, all rushy fields. The side of Slieve Callan must be the hungriest sight in Ireland.
Re: Two discussions for the price of one. Off to California, and Pubs
Well, thankfully, there are still parts Ireland that have remained unsullied by the global sweep of monopoly capitalism.
My own small town (pop. 2,000 including nearby townlands) still has 10 pubs, 4 butchers (one of whom also deals in fresh fish), 2 general clothes shops, a boutique, a fabulous general store which sells just about everything you suddenly remember you might need, 5 groceries (one of which also sells horse tack), a barber and several hairdressers, 2 chemists, 2 newsagents, 3 general purpose hardware stores, a garden centre, a florist, 3 undertakers, 2 banks and a building society, a health food shop, 2 cafés, 2 take-aways, and 3 motor mechanics. Plus there's a cattle mart, numerous small businesses, 2 nightclubs and a shop which only sells locally grown produce! Oh, and we also have a small market on the square twice a week.
Add to all that a storytelling festival, 2 music festivals, a country fair and numerous other events.
Re: Two discussions for the price of one. Off to California, and Pubs
Indeed, MacCruiskeen, it also has The Glens Centre in Manorhamilton, one of the best small venues in Ireland. I would be there myself tonight to see Liam O'Flynn & Sean Keane but Dick Gaughan is in Barrys of Grange.
Re: Two discussions for the price of one. Off to California, and Pubs
Before the local version of Cregeen's opened, the local Irish Session has had to move several times since it began in the bar at a local restaurant. This bar was actually a so-called sports bar.
After a year or two in this bar, the Irish Session moved to the local branch of Barnes & Noble for a year or two before we had to move to a seafood restaurant.
Since then, the local Irish Session has been held in several different places--usually some restaurant with a full-service bar.
Two discussions for the price of one. Off to California, and Pubs
Two discussions for the price of one. Off to California, and Pubs
Advice needed on the 'road map' other players use for 'Off to California'. If first phrase is A and second is B, I have heard it played ABB ABB. The other day another player said AABB AABB.
Comments welcome.
Second one. The Washington Post carried an article on the dramatic loss of traditional pubs and the corresponding effects on local culture. Here is the address
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/04/24/AR2008042403855.html?wpisrc%3Dnewsletter&sub=AR
IT would be a shame if Ireland became like the states where the local places get replaced by Applebys, Taco Bells and Mickey D's.....
I always felt Ireland had it right.
# Posted on April 25th 2008 by zippydw
Re: Two discussions for the price of one. Off to California, and Pubs
I have always heard Off To California played in the order AABB--AABB.
Since the closest I have come to being in a traditional pub is the local version of Cregeen's, I have no comments about the Washington Post article.
# Posted on April 25th 2008 by fauxcelt
Re: Two discussions for the price of one. Off to California, and Pubs
AABB, and that was a mighty sad article there.
# Posted on April 25th 2008 by SWFL Fiddler
Re: Two discussions for the price of one. Off to California, and Pubs
Zippy, that article struck a cord with me. I see it at home. The village I live in was a different place when I was a kid.
There used to be Carrols clothes shop, Murphy's with the curtains and vases etc and bicycle repair kits, O’Brien’s butchers, Kenny's and O'Hallorans and Gleesons groceries stores, a post office, Slattery’s garage, and three pubs and a convent of mercy / school in the village all based around the church in the middle.
Life for the locals consisted of a quiet pint after work in the evenings and at the weekends the whole parish would attend mass on Sunday morning and gather outside after mass talking and gossiping. It was common to go past the church at three or four, mass having been said at eleven, and still have a group of people chatting away. I could still name the people who stayed there all day talking.
Back then when there were big jobs to do the whole parish would get involved. When John 'Lightnin' had to bring in the hay he would pull up in the village with a tractor and trailer and myself and all the other young lads would just hop on and spend the day forkin bales of hay onto the trailer. We were typical lads, bold out at times often stealing apples from the nun’s orchard but as a community we were all one huge family. As a boy I knew the names of every person in the whole parish and they all knew my family and me. We all had so much time for each other and the pubs were always buzzing with a great atmosphere.
Its so terribly sad how things have changed. Everyone is in such a rush these days. You do your own work now and expect no help. There are people living in the parish now and I haven’t a clue who they are.
All but one of the shops has closed down. Only one pub remains open and the life and soul of the community has died.
Nowadays if you drove up the village after mass you would be lucky to see a cat strolling up the street.
The only connection I can make is that with this newfound prosperity, people don’t feel the need to create bonds with their neighbours because they don’t ‘need’ anyone.
The community family is dead…. and it would break your heart.
# Posted on April 25th 2008 by session savage
Re: Two discussions for the price of one. Off to California, and Pubs
I can sympathise. Its the same in the north of England pubs are closing at an amazing rate. We recently struggled to find a venue to set up a session in Rochdale where once upon a time (not that long ago!) there was a pub on every corner. Those of you in England might well know the work of CAMRA (Campaign for Real Ale) I'm a member because they do sterling work to up the profile of the trad pub. Irish sessions in wine bars doesn't soumnd quite right does it (ps. If you own a wine bar and have a cracking session- no offence intended I'm sure its lovely). We've just found two pubs who have offered us a home, but its taken a while!!!
On the other thing I have always played Off to California AA-BB, if thats any help, but I'll go and get me box and try the other variations - variety is the spice of life so they say!!!!!
# Posted on April 25th 2008 by PNBarratt
Re: Two discussions for the price of one. Off to California, and Pubs
You're not alone savage. Everyone slags off where I grew up in Glasgow in the 60's, Drumchapel; but in those days it was just a massive post-war housing estate and the streets after school were absolutely jam-packed full of kids out playing peever, kick the can, tig and so on. Most of it has now been flattened. There is some redevelopment but that is private housing. The council housing which remains is ghettoised, a druggie's paradise.
Strangely enough, a few miles down towards the centre of Glasgow in Partick, there do remain numerous pubs which are real proper old fashioned boozers. Probably a bit too old-fashioned actually, as I couldn't see a session (a relatively modern phenomenon) ever starting in any of them, (except this one, but it's finished: http://www.thesession.org/sessions/display/113 )
# Posted on April 25th 2008 by Rudall the time
Re: Two discussions for the price of one. Off to California, and Pubs
For all that there's wealth and wealth, what was the standard of living of people who had the small pubs in Ireland in the old days?
I remember a village cafe owner in Greece telling me he made his living working from 6 a.m. to late at night every day of the year without exception. I had no reason to disbelieve him, having been his neighbour for some time. Ireland isn't Greece, but were some of the small bar owners in Ireland tied to their shops and bars like this, working all hours just to get by financially?
# Posted on April 25th 2008 by nicholas
Re: Two discussions for the price of one. Off to California, and Pubs
Great, and absolutely true comments, Sean, I see it everywhere, capitalism and greed destroying communities. What you need is a session involving Kevin Burke jamming with The Stone Roses, imagine a fiddle break on I Am The Resurrection, monster, man, monster! What was it they said about the female bodhran player, oh yes, SHE BANGS THE DRUMS.
# Posted on April 25th 2008 by strayaway
Re: Two discussions for the price of one. Off to California, and Pubs
oooh god... Kevin Burke and the Stone roses.... pant pant... breathe.. I would pass out with the excitement.
How did you know strayaway??
# Posted on April 25th 2008 by session savage
Re: Two discussions for the price of one. Off to California, and Pubs
SS
Herself is a McFadden (great grandfather-Donegal) and a Shanley (great grand-mother- Mayo)
We went back last year with the intention of trying to find some remnants of old ties. We found Shanley's Clothing Store in Westport. However, on that part of the trip no one was able to shed any light on things.
While Westport is probably not typical of smaller towns being somewhat touristy, Shanley's and the family run stores around it made the trip very special. Very freindly.
In the smaller towns, the shops probably play a bigger part.
It's a shame that with the economic growth, which God knows Ireland deserves, the best parts can't be worked in.
Realistically though, in the States it hasn't worked that way.
Oh well. That's why we keep the music going!
# Posted on April 25th 2008 by zippydw
Re: Two discussions for the price of one. Off to California, and Pubs
And just when you are getting tired at about 9.00pm, in start rolling the diddley dee ers. All rowdy and up for it 'cause they've finished their day jobs and had their tea. Making the same god awful racket they made last week and the week before and the week before. And have the temerity to keep diddling way after you've called time and get grumpy when you ask 'em to drink up. "One last tune now" you shout, and the feckers play 18 reels back to back. And when you've finally got them to shut up and most of 'em are packing their instruments away and trying to hide their pints under their jackets, two of 'em start a feckin workshop on what's the best way to play Off to California.
So you sell up to a property developer who turns your pub into three flats and you take the profite and off you move to California. And quite right too.
# Posted on April 25th 2008 by ...
Re: Two discussions for the price of one. Off to California, and Pubs
there is a surprising amount of truth to that michael
# Posted on April 25th 2008 by session savage
Re: Two discussions for the price of one. Off to California, and Pubs
Many rural pubs made very little money, any only opening at the weekend. Owner have always had at least a farm and usually a job at Eircom to make ends meet. Loads of pubs shut when the owners retire. The fact that owners of big city pubs are willing to pay €150-200K for a licence made a nice pension fund for a lot of pub owners.
# Posted on April 25th 2008 by Prof. Prlwytzkofski
Re: Two discussions for the price of one. Off to California, and Pubs
Had to laugh at this quote in the article ..... "Fewer people are farming the valuable rolling green hills around Carney's".....
It would be probably some of the worst farmland in the country, all rushy fields. The side of Slieve Callan must be the hungriest sight in Ireland.
# Posted on April 25th 2008 by Killone
Re: Two discussions for the price of one. Off to California, and Pubs
How did I know? simple, I asked The Boy With The Arab Strap.
# Posted on April 25th 2008 by strayaway
Re: Two discussions for the price of one. Off to California, and Pubs
Looking at the world economic position, things may change.....
I sometimes wonder if we're living in a 1913 situation with things about to change dramatically and we'll look back......
# Posted on April 25th 2008 by TomB-R
Re: Two discussions for the price of one. Off to California, and Pubs
Well, thankfully, there are still parts Ireland that have remained unsullied by the global sweep of monopoly capitalism.
My own small town (pop. 2,000 including nearby townlands) still has 10 pubs, 4 butchers (one of whom also deals in fresh fish), 2 general clothes shops, a boutique, a fabulous general store which sells just about everything you suddenly remember you might need, 5 groceries (one of which also sells horse tack), a barber and several hairdressers, 2 chemists, 2 newsagents, 3 general purpose hardware stores, a garden centre, a florist, 3 undertakers, 2 banks and a building society, a health food shop, 2 cafés, 2 take-aways, and 3 motor mechanics. Plus there's a cattle mart, numerous small businesses, 2 nightclubs and a shop which only sells locally grown produce! Oh, and we also have a small market on the square twice a week.
Add to all that a storytelling festival, 2 music festivals, a country fair and numerous other events.
Please don't let Tesco know.
# Posted on April 25th 2008 by MacCruiskeen
Re: Two discussions for the price of one. Off to California, and Pubs
Indeed, MacCruiskeen, it also has The Glens Centre in Manorhamilton, one of the best small venues in Ireland. I would be there myself tonight to see Liam O'Flynn & Sean Keane but Dick Gaughan is in Barrys of Grange.
# Posted on April 25th 2008 by strayaway
Re: Two discussions for the price of one. Off to California, and Pubs
Fine, strayaway, but I don't live in Manorhamilton! And, sadly, that town will shortly be hit by a new Tesco development.
# Posted on April 25th 2008 by MacCruiskeen
Re: Two discussions for the price of one. Off to California, and Pubs
Off to California seems to have become a talked about tune today. Another post just came on the mustard board.
I will take everyones advice and start playing AABB so next summer I can bring my box and play in at the pub ilig was refering to.....
# Posted on April 25th 2008 by zippydw
Re: Two discussions for the price of one. Off to California, and Pubs
that pub's not there any more
# Posted on April 25th 2008 by ...
Re: Two discussions for the price of one. Off to California, and Pubs
Before the local version of Cregeen's opened, the local Irish Session has had to move several times since it began in the bar at a local restaurant. This bar was actually a so-called sports bar.
After a year or two in this bar, the Irish Session moved to the local branch of Barnes & Noble for a year or two before we had to move to a seafood restaurant.
Since then, the local Irish Session has been held in several different places--usually some restaurant with a full-service bar.
# Posted on April 26th 2008 by fauxcelt