Hi
does any viola, guitar or bouzouki player here ever use a DADAE-Tuning? Do you know where I could find chords/tablature/any kind of help for this?
I try to play backing on the 5-string viola and would like to imitate what bouzoukis and the likes do but not being a bouzouki player, i don't know where to start looking for hints? (you can't really tune the 5-string DADGAD )
thanks for any help!
mina
Would not DGDAD or DADAD be better although for the life of me I cannot see how you would be able to or want to play chords on a five string viola . It is set up for tunes ??? Bouzoukis have double stings and this is a greater part of the sound and you will never have this .
(Over to you micheal )
I always thought GDADA would be a great tuning for a five course instrument. Does anyone use this? It seems to have the best of both worlds for rhythm and melody.
I have a Puerto Rican cuatro (10 strings, 5 courses) that I restrung and tune GDAEB. With a capo on the 5th fret it sounds CGDAE (viola/violin range). I use it to play melody only - it sounds like an amplified mandolin - and prefer to accompany on my GDAD zouk. I think tuning strictly in fifths make it more difficult to play open chords. That's why so many zouk players choose GDAD over GDAE.
this is similiar to Irish guitar tuning.
Paul de Grae has a guitar book,out using this tuning.
since there is only one string different you should be able to adapt the chords and tunes easily.
I think it is published by Waltons.Irish tuning is sometimes called Carthys tuning,although Carthy uses others including cgcdga, cgcdgd[is Carthys Equivalent of irish tuning], the intervals are the same as dadeae.
Dick Miles
I have played a cittern that was tuned ADGAD, and was totally confused by it, it being neither a zouk/mandolin nor a guitar. ( And I'm familiar with DADGAD on the guitar ).
This might work on the 5-string - do you consider it a viola with an extra top string, or bottom string, or a violin with an extra bottom string ? This might work for you, although you might need to drop the pitch, I'm trying to think, maybe to EADEA ? Or DGCDG ?
The basis of all these 'modal' tunings, is that they leave the options of having droning open strings in the key you are playing in, particularly as the tonic and dominant, so you probably need to decide what keys you will be mainly playing in before you can choose your tuning, especially as you don't have the guitar-players' option of just clamping a capo on it to raise the key.
Best way to start learning your way around the tuning is to compute the chords for yourself. Looks to me like you might get good luck starting with 00455/0X553/X0240 as your basic D/G/A, but there's a bunch of variations on each of those that should jump out at you, both in the bass and treble sides. Looks like it might be a fun tuning, maybe I'll try one of my guitars in it for a while, do my Keith Richards impression...
Thanks everybody, specially Reverend for the link, dickens for the book idea and guernsey pete who seem to be about the only ones who understood what I'm about. Yes the basic idea is to use open strings to produce a droning sound. The instrument has a flat bridge which allows it to play double stops and/or drones easier than on a normal viola. that, dear bazouki dave, produces a sound full of overtones quite different from viola sound and i think it goes very well for accompaniment. Your suggestion of DGDAD might be a good idea but i don't know if it works out. it is an instrument that has to be considered a viola with an additional e-string. so i have tried successfully to tune the lower strings one or two steps up or down but i don't really see the e-string producing a useful sound if tuned lower (and anyway this would rather be used for playing melody) and i dont see the a-string turnin "e" nor the c-string up to the g - but maybe I'll just try anyway.
i suggested DADAE tuning because it is not hard to adjust the instrument one step up on the lower strings and many of the modal tunes in folk music work well if there is an A and D around. of course it wouldn't work for all tunes. sure i can "compute" the chords but if there's books around already to support that, why not ask around for them. i'm still convinced that the viola can be used in the same way as a bouzouki alternating between rhythmic chords and playing melody so i'll geht back to working on it
Paul de Grae,uses the term for dadeae,he says it was invented by Martin Carthy,Martin uses other tunings as well.
it is according to De Grae,sometimes called Carthys tuning.PaulDeGrae has abook called.
Paul De Grae: Traditional Irish Guitar (CD) at Musicroom.com ...CD - £12.95 - This demo CD features Paul de Grae playing 31 tunes from his book Traditional Irish Guitar.
I sometimes think acoustic guitar players spend time dreaming up "new" tunings just in order to spice up their rather limited palate of "things" (chords/ shapes/ fifths and so forth) that they can appropriately use in ITM (and othe "folky" genres).
It's a bit like electric guitar players for ever going on about instrument/ amps/ and pedals and not the music (in their case the small palate is epitomized the inability to play anything other than BLooZ!).
Good old EADGBE was ok for Segovia, Django, BB King, Bob Fripp, Tom Verlaine, Ray Davies, Jack Black, Farnk Zappa, Richard Thompson, Joe Strummer, Bob Dylan and they all manged very nicely thank you!
Is all this bother about different tunings another case of the Emporer's New Clothes?!
You don't (very often) hear fiddlers, banjoists and other string players worry so!
no,
standard tuning is good for many things,I use it alot.
I also use open tunings,because for some things[some traditional music] it works better.
particuarly in the keys of d major and g major,it is easier to get modal dyads in d ,no thirds example dadada.[in tunings such as dadgad ,and dadeae.
the retuned guitar also gives you sympathetic ringing strings.
I like to use both standard and open tunings,it gives greater variety of sound.
fiddlers, do in fact retune [in Shetlands Scotland America .to aeae
5String banjo players use a multitude of different tunings.
Dick Miles
thats just the point. re-tuning your stringed instrument so you get an octave somwhere changes the sound of the instrument because of the sypathetic ringing strings.
Re-tuning is common with fiddles in scandinavian music and it seems can be found in Scottisch music as well. its an old fashioned way of amplification and makes one fiddler sound like three if you use an appropriate technique.
Yhaalhouse - Whatever works. If it sounds good, it *is* good.
None of the guitarists you have listed who managed very nicely thank you (with which I wouldn't disagree) play or played Irish Trad - at least, it's not what they're known for. Except Richard Thompson, who has made some nice *DADGAD* arrangements of Irish tunes. I also happen to know that Robert Fripp uses at least one tuning of his own invention (EADGC#F#?). - and I would be very surprised if Segovia didn't arrange or play some pieces that called for dropped-D tuning.
No doubt many of these guitarists, given the opportunity or the inclination, would have made fine exponents of Irish Traditional Music. Had this been the case, it is entirely possible that they would have experimented with different tunings to find the one that best facilitated their playing in this style. Standard (EADGBE) guitar tuning came about in C19th due to the demands of the music that was developing for the instrument at that time. Furthermore, the evolution of many styles, particularly the Blues and its derivatives, has been shaped by the guitar in standard tuning (although various other tunings have been and are used, such as open G for slide guitar) - so standard tuning is naturally well suited to those styles.
Tunings should be slaves to the music, not the other way round.
...although, on second thoughts, that last comment is a very sweeping statement. There is much to be gained by surrendering to the tuning and letting the guitar 'play itself''.
DADAE Tuning-chords
DADAE Tuning-chords
Hi
)
does any viola, guitar or bouzouki player here ever use a DADAE-Tuning? Do you know where I could find chords/tablature/any kind of help for this?
I try to play backing on the 5-string viola and would like to imitate what bouzoukis and the likes do but not being a bouzouki player, i don't know where to start looking for hints? (you can't really tune the 5-string DADGAD
thanks for any help!
mina
# Posted on April 21st 2008 by Mina the Fiddler
Re: DADAE Tuning-chords
Would not DGDAD or DADAD be better although for the life of me I cannot see how you would be able to or want to play chords on a five string viola . It is set up for tunes ??? Bouzoukis have double stings and this is a greater part of the sound and you will never have this .
(Over to you micheal )
# Posted on April 21st 2008 by bazouki dave and the real tooty flutey
Re: DADAE Tuning-chords
I always thought GDADA would be a great tuning for a five course instrument. Does anyone use this? It seems to have the best of both worlds for rhythm and melody.
# Posted on April 21st 2008 by drinkybanjo
CGDAE
I have a Puerto Rican cuatro (10 strings, 5 courses) that I restrung and tune GDAEB. With a capo on the 5th fret it sounds CGDAE (viola/violin range). I use it to play melody only - it sounds like an amplified mandolin - and prefer to accompany on my GDAD zouk. I think tuning strictly in fifths make it more difficult to play open chords. That's why so many zouk players choose GDAD over GDAE.
Backing on a viola?
Hmmm
# Posted on April 21st 2008 by usedbullfrog
Re: DADAE Tuning-chords
this is similiar to Irish guitar tuning.
Paul de Grae has a guitar book,out using this tuning.
since there is only one string different you should be able to adapt the chords and tunes easily.
I think it is published by Waltons.Irish tuning is sometimes called Carthys tuning,although Carthy uses others including cgcdga, cgcdgd[is Carthys Equivalent of irish tuning], the intervals are the same as dadeae.
Dick Miles
# Posted on April 21st 2008 by dickens metrognome
Re: DADAE Tuning-chords
or possibly try dadea.
# Posted on April 21st 2008 by dickens metrognome
Re: DADAE Tuning-chords
You might try one of the online chord generators that allows you to put in a non-standard tuning. Try this one:
http://www.studybass.com/tools/chord-scale-note-printer/
# Posted on April 21st 2008 by Reverend
Re: DADAE Tuning-chords
I have played a cittern that was tuned ADGAD, and was totally confused by it, it being neither a zouk/mandolin nor a guitar. ( And I'm familiar with DADGAD on the guitar ).
This might work on the 5-string - do you consider it a viola with an extra top string, or bottom string, or a violin with an extra bottom string ? This might work for you, although you might need to drop the pitch, I'm trying to think, maybe to EADEA ? Or DGCDG ?
The basis of all these 'modal' tunings, is that they leave the options of having droning open strings in the key you are playing in, particularly as the tonic and dominant, so you probably need to decide what keys you will be mainly playing in before you can choose your tuning, especially as you don't have the guitar-players' option of just clamping a capo on it to raise the key.
# Posted on April 21st 2008 by Guernsey Pete
Re: DADAE Tuning-chords
Best way to start learning your way around the tuning is to compute the chords for yourself. Looks to me like you might get good luck starting with 00455/0X553/X0240 as your basic D/G/A, but there's a bunch of variations on each of those that should jump out at you, both in the bass and treble sides. Looks like it might be a fun tuning, maybe I'll try one of my guitars in it for a while, do my Keith Richards impression...
# Posted on April 22nd 2008 by Jon Kiparsky
Re: DADAE Tuning-chords
Thanks everybody, specially Reverend for the link, dickens for the book idea and guernsey pete who seem to be about the only ones who understood what I'm about. Yes the basic idea is to use open strings to produce a droning sound. The instrument has a flat bridge which allows it to play double stops and/or drones easier than on a normal viola. that, dear bazouki dave, produces a sound full of overtones quite different from viola sound and i think it goes very well for accompaniment. Your suggestion of DGDAD might be a good idea but i don't know if it works out. it is an instrument that has to be considered a viola with an additional e-string. so i have tried successfully to tune the lower strings one or two steps up or down but i don't really see the e-string producing a useful sound if tuned lower (and anyway this would rather be used for playing melody) and i dont see the a-string turnin "e" nor the c-string up to the g - but maybe I'll just try anyway.
i suggested DADAE tuning because it is not hard to adjust the instrument one step up on the lower strings and many of the modal tunes in folk music work well if there is an A and D around. of course it wouldn't work for all tunes. sure i can "compute" the chords but if there's books around already to support that, why not ask around for them. i'm still convinced that the viola can be used in the same way as a bouzouki alternating between rhythmic chords and playing melody so i'll geht back to working on it
# Posted on April 22nd 2008 by Mina the Fiddler
Re: DADAE Tuning-chords
Dickens: "this is similiar to Irish guitar tuning."
What is 'Irish guitar tuning'?
# Posted on April 22nd 2008 by granama
Re: DADAE Tuning-chords
Paul de Grae,uses the term for dadeae,he says it was invented by Martin Carthy,Martin uses other tunings as well.
it is according to De Grae,sometimes called Carthys tuning.PaulDeGrae has abook called.
Paul De Grae: Traditional Irish Guitar (CD) at Musicroom.com ...CD - £12.95 - This demo CD features Paul de Grae playing 31 tunes from his book Traditional Irish Guitar.
# Posted on April 22nd 2008 by dickens metrognome
Re: DADAE Tuning-chords
I sometimes think acoustic guitar players spend time dreaming up "new" tunings just in order to spice up their rather limited palate of "things" (chords/ shapes/ fifths and so forth) that they can appropriately use in ITM (and othe "folky" genres).
It's a bit like electric guitar players for ever going on about instrument/ amps/ and pedals and not the music (in their case the small palate is epitomized the inability to play anything other than BLooZ!).
Good old EADGBE was ok for Segovia, Django, BB King, Bob Fripp, Tom Verlaine, Ray Davies, Jack Black, Farnk Zappa, Richard Thompson, Joe Strummer, Bob Dylan and they all manged very nicely thank you!
Is all this bother about different tunings another case of the Emporer's New Clothes?!
You don't (very often) hear fiddlers, banjoists and other string players worry so!
# Posted on April 22nd 2008 by yhaalhouse
Re: DADAE Tuning-chords
no,
standard tuning is good for many things,I use it alot.
I also use open tunings,because for some things[some traditional music] it works better.
particuarly in the keys of d major and g major,it is easier to get modal dyads in d ,no thirds example dadada.[in tunings such as dadgad ,and dadeae.
the retuned guitar also gives you sympathetic ringing strings.
I like to use both standard and open tunings,it gives greater variety of sound.
fiddlers, do in fact retune [in Shetlands Scotland America .to aeae
5String banjo players use a multitude of different tunings.
Dick Miles
# Posted on April 22nd 2008 by dickens metrognome
Re: DADAE Tuning-chords
thats just the point. re-tuning your stringed instrument so you get an octave somwhere changes the sound of the instrument because of the sypathetic ringing strings.
Re-tuning is common with fiddles in scandinavian music and it seems can be found in Scottisch music as well. its an old fashioned way of amplification and makes one fiddler sound like three if you use an appropriate technique.
# Posted on April 22nd 2008 by Mina the Fiddler
Re: DADAE Tuning-chords
Yhaalhouse - Whatever works. If it sounds good, it *is* good.
None of the guitarists you have listed who managed very nicely thank you (with which I wouldn't disagree) play or played Irish Trad - at least, it's not what they're known for. Except Richard Thompson, who has made some nice *DADGAD* arrangements of Irish tunes. I also happen to know that Robert Fripp uses at least one tuning of his own invention (EADGC#F#?). - and I would be very surprised if Segovia didn't arrange or play some pieces that called for dropped-D tuning.
No doubt many of these guitarists, given the opportunity or the inclination, would have made fine exponents of Irish Traditional Music. Had this been the case, it is entirely possible that they would have experimented with different tunings to find the one that best facilitated their playing in this style. Standard (EADGBE) guitar tuning came about in C19th due to the demands of the music that was developing for the instrument at that time. Furthermore, the evolution of many styles, particularly the Blues and its derivatives, has been shaped by the guitar in standard tuning (although various other tunings have been and are used, such as open G for slide guitar) - so standard tuning is naturally well suited to those styles.
Tunings should be slaves to the music, not the other way round.
# Posted on April 22nd 2008 by granama
Re: DADAE Tuning-chords
...although, on second thoughts, that last comment is a very sweeping statement. There is much to be gained by surrendering to the tuning and letting the guitar 'play itself''.
# Posted on April 22nd 2008 by granama