Frankie Gavin: all-time great or over-hyped sell-out?
Frankie Gavin: all-time great or over-hyped sell-out?
Frankie Gavin's legacy is unclear. Do people see him as a fiddle legend and genuine heir to Coleman/Morrison (think the first red album with Alec Finn) or a sell-out who chased the dollar and indulged in gimmickry and commercial vulgarity of McGoldrickesque proportions (think the infamous 'Christmas' album)?
Re: Frankie Gavin: all-time great or over-hyped sell-out?
The question confuses talent with choice of repertoire. He's obviously one of the best fiddlers anywhere. His choices for material to record could use some work, however.
I think of it as the Barbra Streisand syndrome---phenomenal voice, cheesy recordings.
Re: Frankie Gavin: all-time great or over-hyped sell-out?
I don't know any biographical details about Coleman or Morrison, but wouldn't be surprised if either had been quite ready to appear on a slapstick family programme for a consideration, make a goofy record (ditto), or schmooze with a US President of any stripe. I doubt if either was the Howard Hughes with a fiddle - and, of course, without the money - which we sometimes seem to want dead trad icons to have been, guarding the purity of their music by living asocial lives of bone-chomping austerity in roofless cottages up rainy mountainsides, in the slender hope it would find respect with new generations when they had passed on.
Frankie Gavin's played brilliant trad and extended its techniques to other forms of music. He's done his bit for trad, surely. Loads of ITM-ers have learnt tunes as they've heard him on albums from earlier on, and even if he were to wallow in crass cheese from now on (!), that wouldn't be undone. Good luck to the man!
Re: Frankie Gavin: all-time great or over-hyped sell-out?
"I like to listen to him play the fiddle" too SWFL but only when he plays tasteful music.
I'm sorry but I would rather listen to stray cats mating than listen to 'Welcome To The Hotel Connemara' or "a fiddlin xmas' or whatever its called.
Its just such a stark contrast to his first album and the early De Dannan albums that makes it hard to stomach for me, knocks him out of 'great' status for me I'm afraid. Also he frequently makes reference to how young people should be playing with a good traditional style when he sometimes ignores it himself.
Very dissapointing Frankie...
Re: Frankie Gavin: all-time great or over-hyped sell-out?
I'm sure he is liig but unfortunately he's not coming round to dinner this weekend!
I met him once and found him very nice, its just his current brand of Irish Musak I have a problem with.
Re: Frankie Gavin: all-time great or over-hyped sell-out?
Really enjoyed the interview. thanks snowflake
ps ,saw him in ti coli,s pub in galway once he was just sat listening to the music ,very quiet and reserved seemed like a sound guy to me ,love his playing
Re: Frankie Gavin: all-time great or over-hyped sell-out?
I also like his flute playing. Its excellent. Perhaps its his ego which seems to ravish or destroy his fiddling playing at times. I heard in Ennis playing with a string quartet at the traad fest and it was sad to see someone with such great talent for traditional fiddling playin seemingly abandon it to hop into bed with really bad substandard fusion trazz. Does he feel inferior to the classical violinists that impress him so much? He says in the JMI interview that he won't be happy til he can play the Tchyckosky violin concerto! He cant hit the high c in the Golden Eagle hornpipe which is actually one of my favourite Gavin tracks. I hope this is just a phase or he plays the flute more often instead! One thing is for sure his first album will be around for a very long time.
Re: Frankie Gavin: all-time great or over-hyped sell-out?
I can’t really wrap my head around the notion that an artist’s experimenting outside his field of established mastery somehow subtracts from that mastery, or from his legacy, or whatever. If you climb Mt. Everest and later break your ankle tripping over an ant hill, Mt. Everest remains climbed. Clumb? Hmmm… Dumb analogy, anyway.
Re: Frankie Gavin: all-time great or over-hyped sell-out?
Geez... don't you think maybe the commercial stuff SUBSIDIZES the trad stuff to an extent? He's doing you a favor!
I think most of us are better served by diverting the energy it takes to worry about whether Gavin has 'sold-out' (whatever that means) and using it to practice and/or bring a young person into the tradition.
Re: Frankie Gavin: all-time great or over-hyped sell-out?
why do people find the need to start a thread like this? anyone who knows anything about irish music knows frankie gavin as a musician is brilliant. he would have to be my personal favourite. as said above, plays savage stuff when with an accordion as well. its simply not up for debate, yes some people might not like his playing, but you cannot say hes not one of the best fiddle players ever. listen to de dannan cds, or the videos on youtube with dermot byrne and steve cooney.. and if you dont think thats top playing then your not in touch with the music!
Re: Frankie Gavin: all-time great or over-hyped sell-out?
Bogman i suppose having read your profile where you cite Kila and other deforms of trad as influences then i guess we're on a totally different wavelength and the reality you see is very much removed from the reality of the true greats and inheritors of our music such as Ennis, Clancy, McFadden and Early. There is no analysis or critue in any of your posts. Is there anything going on upstairs?
Re: Frankie Gavin: all-time great or over-hyped sell-out?
The reason there is no analysis in my posts on this thread is because the subject is pathetic. We are on a different wavelength, there is no doubt about that but just because I like a variety of trad based music doesn't mean to say I don't respect the tradition in a more simple form.
Also, I do NOT cite Kila as an influence, I mention them in a list of bands that I like.
And have you contributed more than Frankie Gavin to the tradition?
Re: Frankie Gavin: all-time great or over-hyped sell-out?
"just because I like a variety of trad based music doesn't mean to say I don't respect the tradition in a more simple form."
This is such an ignorant comment. Simple form? you honsetly think that the music of Kila and other bands is more complicated than the likes of Clancy, ennis, McFadden or Early's music. I strongly reject this. The real traditional music played by these masters is much more intricate and delicate form of music. It is certainly not simple. I hate when real traditional music is degenerated by such comments. its disrespectful in my opinion.
Re: Frankie Gavin: all-time great or over-hyped sell-out?
A major part of the strength of traditional music is it's simplicity. Simplicity does not devalue the music and it is not disrespectful to call it simple.
Re: Frankie Gavin: all-time great or over-hyped sell-out?
i think bogmans bogged down in the stance he initially took and its too late to backtrack!
No shame in it bogman, its happened to the best of us.
While i dont agree with all of your points snowflake you are essentially correct in your assessment of frankie, he's like.. so 1979!
By the way how are you going to surpass frankies legacy?!?
Re: Frankie Gavin: all-time great or over-hyped sell-out?
No backtracks and no shame here VocalDivaSteed. Shame on the one who is arrogant enough to public state that they will do more for traditional music than Frankie Gavin has. Not HAS done more but WILL do more.
Re: Frankie Gavin: all-time great or over-hyped sell-out?
Bogman i suspect you can't hear or apprecite the subtleties and intricacies of great solo playing of our masters. Can you hear Patsy Tuouhy's back-stiching on O'Neill's cyclinders? Nothing simple there. While you imply that the music of Daimh and Liz Carrol is more complicated. I feel like i'm talking to a brick wall here. Simple music. when Gerald Cambrehis came to ireland he described a music that was far from simple. i hate to see people not recognising the real merit in our itm.
Re: Frankie Gavin: all-time great or over-hyped sell-out?
real irish music is a mountain (not a molehill as you insultingly put it bogman) we are all climbing. Unfortunately frankie thinks he's reached the summit. I never want to get there but I'll enjoy the climb. Bogman you are obviously in the foothills, come join us the views lovely!
Re: Frankie Gavin: all-time great or over-hyped sell-out?
I'm being honest with you bogman and i answered your question honestly and yet you call me arrogant. Don't ask a question if you do not want a frank answer.
Re: Frankie Gavin: all-time great or over-hyped sell-out?
Your choice of music clearly illustrates a uncultured, foul taste for irish-flavoured music which is all too common today. You then have the nerve to label the great stuff as a "more simple form". Anything goin on upstairs? Maybe but it sounds terrible
Re: Frankie Gavin: all-time great or over-hyped sell-out?
I said 'You are making a mountain out of a molehill thesnowflakes.'
That was not directed at the music. How could you interprate it that way?I was not saying the music is more of a molehill than a mountain. I was refering to the fact that thesnowflakes was making a big deal of my use of the word simple.
Re: Frankie Gavin: all-time great or over-hyped sell-out?
thesnowflakes, you have nothing in your profile section. You really should put something up about the fact that you will do more for trad than Frankie Gavin. I would say that is quite important.
Re: Frankie Gavin: all-time great or over-hyped sell-out?
Bogman, you're wasting your time. When people start threads like this so the musically inept can try to lower the bar in order to deal with their jealousy -- it's best just to walk away as they tighten the nooses around their necks.
Re: Frankie Gavin: all-time great or over-hyped sell-out?
Found this clip, it must be 'don't touch the green linnet' and 'thesnowflakes worst nightmare. Frankie Gavin, Mike McGoldrick and Sharron Shannon playing together. Not only that but the first tune is Scottish and the second is by Liz Carroll.
Re: Frankie Gavin: all-time great or over-hyped sell-out?
Honestly i don't like that clip. Its just my preference. Getting back to the original point you seem to have forgotten that i actually really like Frankie's first album and his flute album and credit is due here and given. However the point people are making is that he has strayed from this for whatever reason and the results to my ear do not do him justice. It has nothing to do with jealousy Phantom Button as i am a fan of his early recordings. I fail to understand how this thread could possibly lower the bar.I understand that obviously we have completely different tastes.
Re: Frankie Gavin: all-time great or over-hyped sell-out?
Our tastes are very similar actually, but the difference is that I think it's a waste of time to trash Frankie just because he ventured into a couple of projects you don't approve of.
Re: Frankie Gavin: all-time great or over-hyped sell-out?
snowflakes. You really have a bee in your chip on your shoulder bonnet thing going on. Listen to Button and Bogman. And listen to the music you like ... and don't bother listening to the music you don't. (and by the way, there is no correlation between quality and complexity)
Re: Frankie Gavin: all-time great or over-hyped sell-out?
I like how he's pointed out a bridge between the Baroque
and what we consider to be Irish trad today. But yeah - I
like his old stuff better than his new stuff - how often does that
come up in pop music eg Joni Mitchell, Pearl Jam and REM
Re: Frankie Gavin: all-time great or over-hyped sell-out?
I've met Frankie a few times and find him to be an incredible musician and a complex human being. But so many people with that sort of musical genius tend to be complex individuals. After a long chat, (that included Tony McMahon,) about Frankie's musical legacy and contributions to ITM, I told Frankie that my absolute favorite recording of his was the one he and Alec did in NY. I told him this on the heels of his recording of Fierce Traditional, and his reaction seemed to be disappointment. It's funny how we tend to appreciate the early recordings of artists we like more than the recent ones, but the artists themselves seem to be just the opposite.
Re: Frankie Gavin: all-time great or over-hyped sell-out?
That's such a coincidence. When I met Frankie, he mentioned this time when some American guy kept tapping him on the shoulder and attention-seeking when he was trying to have a conversation with Tony McMahon. Apparently, whenever he'd tell the guy to go away, the guy would say "geez, you really are complex aren't you?" Apparently when this guy started babbling incoherently about Frankie's recordings, the two of them just stared at him blankly for ages until he went away. Strange that. Maybe he has similar conversations all the time.
Re: Frankie Gavin: all-time great or over-hyped sell-out?
I generally make it a rule not to post onto discussions where the instigator and conspirators have blank profiles.
You can say what you like about any musician - but it is obvious you don't have the fortitude to say it to their faces, instead you would rather stir up divison with your derision. Especially where they are better musicians than you, have made a living from making music, have more hair, etc.
I'd rather than have a pint and listen to anything that Gavin has played on than sit here and read this drivel.
Re: Frankie Gavin: all-time great or over-hyped sell-out?
Yes Danny, that's exactly what happened. It was at a pub following a solo performance that Frankie gave here in the SF area where Tony was invited on stage at the end because he happened to be in town. Frankie, Tony, Frankie's agent and some friends were at a pub near the concert venue. I was sitting next to Frankie and he asked me what I thought of his solo music/story-telling show. He wanted to get some feedback because it was only the second time he tried it. Tony overheard us from the opposite side of the table and wanted to join in. Tony was determined to add his thoughts because in order to get out from where he was sitting everyone else had to get up and move out of the way. He even knocked over a glass of wine in the process. When Tony got over to us he sat at a table just behind Frankie I so we turned our chairs around and the three of us had a chat about the whole thing.
Re: Frankie Gavin: all-time great or over-hyped sell-out?
It was initially about the merits of his show, but because I'm easily recognizable, even from the stage, he remembered seeing me at a lot of the shows they did at the Great American Music Hall here in SF and he mentioned that before asking me what I thought of his solo show. I think he was interested about what a long-time fan would think.
I was answering the question from that perspective, which would be involving an overview of about 25 or 30 years. I've been in the audience and near the front at almost every show. I've seen them go through a lot of changes and, for me, hearing Frankie's stories was very interesting and entertaining. But someone who hasn't been a long-time fan, like myself, might not be as interested. Among other things, this was the main gist of my review, and when Tony heard what was being discussed he wanted to come over and add his opinions as well..
That's when the discussion really got underway concerning Frankie's musical legacy and how it related to his solo performance that night. This discussion lasted a good while before it dissolved into a rather heated debate about Tony's RTE program that I think was called, "The Blackbird and the Bell Jar."
Frankie Gavin: all-time great or over-hyped sell-out?
Frankie Gavin: all-time great or over-hyped sell-out?
Frankie Gavin's legacy is unclear. Do people see him as a fiddle legend and genuine heir to Coleman/Morrison (think the first red album with Alec Finn) or a sell-out who chased the dollar and indulged in gimmickry and commercial vulgarity of McGoldrickesque proportions (think the infamous 'Christmas' album)?
# Posted on April 18th 2008 by don't touch the green linnet
Re: Frankie Gavin: all-time great or over-hyped sell-out?
Um...neither?
This music isn't about stars or idols or anyone's commercial pursuits (we all have to earn a living).
# Posted on April 18th 2008 by Will CPT
Re: Frankie Gavin: all-time great or over-hyped sell-out?
I heard you can earn great money as an assassin.
# Posted on April 18th 2008 by Dow
Re: Frankie Gavin: all-time great or over-hyped sell-out?
Yes, well, even accordionists have to earn their keep somehow....
# Posted on April 18th 2008 by Will CPT
Re: Frankie Gavin: all-time great or over-hyped sell-out?
It'd look better on their CV than "accordionist", that's for sure
# Posted on April 18th 2008 by Dow
Re: Frankie Gavin: all-time great or over-hyped sell-out?
Yes, some vocations are better kept under the vest.
# Posted on April 18th 2008 by Will CPT
Re: Frankie Gavin: all-time great or over-hyped sell-out?
My first and pretty much only thought when I see his name is: "I like to listen to him play the fiddle."
# Posted on April 18th 2008 by SWFL Fiddler
Re: Frankie Gavin: all-time great or over-hyped sell-out?
Dow, if you haven't seen it, go rent The Matador with Pierce Brosnan. He redeemed himself in that.
# Posted on April 18th 2008 by Will CPT
Re: Frankie Gavin: all-time great or over-hyped sell-out?
There ya' go, SWFL--my response too. I like Frankie's lift and timing. Plus he clearly enjoys playing music--who cares about the rest of it.
# Posted on April 18th 2008 by Will CPT
Re: Frankie Gavin: all-time great or over-hyped sell-out?
The question confuses talent with choice of repertoire. He's obviously one of the best fiddlers anywhere. His choices for material to record could use some work, however.
I think of it as the Barbra Streisand syndrome---phenomenal voice, cheesy recordings.
# Posted on April 18th 2008 by kennedy
Re: Frankie Gavin: all-time great or over-hyped sell-out?
I don't know any biographical details about Coleman or Morrison, but wouldn't be surprised if either had been quite ready to appear on a slapstick family programme for a consideration, make a goofy record (ditto), or schmooze with a US President of any stripe. I doubt if either was the Howard Hughes with a fiddle - and, of course, without the money - which we sometimes seem to want dead trad icons to have been, guarding the purity of their music by living asocial lives of bone-chomping austerity in roofless cottages up rainy mountainsides, in the slender hope it would find respect with new generations when they had passed on.
Frankie Gavin's played brilliant trad and extended its techniques to other forms of music. He's done his bit for trad, surely. Loads of ITM-ers have learnt tunes as they've heard him on albums from earlier on, and even if he were to wallow in crass cheese from now on (!), that wouldn't be undone. Good luck to the man!
# Posted on April 18th 2008 by nicholas
Re: Frankie Gavin: all-time great or over-hyped sell-out?
"I like to listen to him play the fiddle" too SWFL but only when he plays tasteful music.
I'm sorry but I would rather listen to stray cats mating than listen to 'Welcome To The Hotel Connemara' or "a fiddlin xmas' or whatever its called.
Its just such a stark contrast to his first album and the early De Dannan albums that makes it hard to stomach for me, knocks him out of 'great' status for me I'm afraid. Also he frequently makes reference to how young people should be playing with a good traditional style when he sometimes ignores it himself.
Very dissapointing Frankie...
# Posted on April 18th 2008 by richard white
Re: Frankie Gavin: all-time great or over-hyped sell-out?
Here's an interview with him that serves to illustrate my point:-
www.thejmi.com/article/230
# Posted on April 18th 2008 by richard white
Re: Frankie Gavin: all-time great or over-hyped sell-out?
leave the bloke alone. He's a terrific fiddle player and, contrary to what people who havn't met him say, a top bloke.
# Posted on April 18th 2008 by llig leahcim
Re: Frankie Gavin: all-time great or over-hyped sell-out?
I'm sure he is liig but unfortunately he's not coming round to dinner this weekend!
I met him once and found him very nice, its just his current brand of Irish Musak I have a problem with.
# Posted on April 18th 2008 by richard white
Re: Frankie Gavin: all-time great or over-hyped sell-out?
Really enjoyed the interview. thanks snowflake
ps ,saw him in ti coli,s pub in galway once he was just sat listening to the music ,very quiet and reserved seemed like a sound guy to me ,love his playing
# Posted on April 18th 2008 by silas
Re: Frankie Gavin: all-time great or over-hyped sell-out?
All-time great - when he plays traditional Irish music- and don't forget his flute-playing, as good as anyone you care to mention.
# Posted on April 18th 2008 by Kenny
Re: Frankie Gavin: all-time great or over-hyped sell-out?
I also like his flute playing. Its excellent. Perhaps its his ego which seems to ravish or destroy his fiddling playing at times. I heard in Ennis playing with a string quartet at the traad fest and it was sad to see someone with such great talent for traditional fiddling playin seemingly abandon it to hop into bed with really bad substandard fusion trazz. Does he feel inferior to the classical violinists that impress him so much? He says in the JMI interview that he won't be happy til he can play the Tchyckosky violin concerto! He cant hit the high c in the Golden Eagle hornpipe which is actually one of my favourite Gavin tracks. I hope this is just a phase or he plays the flute more often instead! One thing is for sure his first album will be around for a very long time.
# Posted on April 18th 2008 by richard white
Re: Frankie Gavin: all-time great or over-hyped sell-out?
Can't say I like jazz, classical or any fusions thereof, however, if you got to make money, go make money, I suppose. I won't be buying it though.
# Posted on April 18th 2008 by SWFL Fiddler
Re: Frankie Gavin: all-time great or over-hyped sell-out?
I can’t really wrap my head around the notion that an artist’s experimenting outside his field of established mastery somehow subtracts from that mastery, or from his legacy, or whatever. If you climb Mt. Everest and later break your ankle tripping over an ant hill, Mt. Everest remains climbed. Clumb? Hmmm… Dumb analogy, anyway.
# Posted on April 18th 2008 by Bob himself
Re: Frankie Gavin: all-time great or over-hyped sell-out?
Geez... don't you think maybe the commercial stuff SUBSIDIZES the trad stuff to an extent? He's doing you a favor!
I think most of us are better served by diverting the energy it takes to worry about whether Gavin has 'sold-out' (whatever that means) and using it to practice and/or bring a young person into the tradition.
Gavin can do what he likes.
# Posted on April 18th 2008 by jwvansteenwyk
Re: Frankie Gavin: all-time great or over-hyped sell-out?
Hey, if you do it for living, you've got to sell what people are buying. It's just the way it is and there's no shame in it.
Now round up the lads and fire up the boat. Better bundle up, looks cold.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aUnSUfw0WGc
# Posted on April 19th 2008 by SWFL Fiddler
Re: Frankie Gavin: all-time great or over-hyped sell-out?
I think Frankie is is the crowned king of the variation. I love all the stuff he does when playing with an accordion player.
# Posted on April 19th 2008 by chuneboi slim
Re: Frankie Gavin: all-time great or over-hyped sell-out?
why do people find the need to start a thread like this? anyone who knows anything about irish music knows frankie gavin as a musician is brilliant. he would have to be my personal favourite. as said above, plays savage stuff when with an accordion as well. its simply not up for debate, yes some people might not like his playing, but you cannot say hes not one of the best fiddle players ever. listen to de dannan cds, or the videos on youtube with dermot byrne and steve cooney.. and if you dont think thats top playing then your not in touch with the music!
# Posted on April 19th 2008 by S.Doherty
Re: Frankie Gavin: all-time great or over-hyped sell-out?
>why do people find the need to start a thread like this?
To try to wind us up.
Don't waste your energy.
# Posted on April 19th 2008 by Key Maniac Lad
Re: Frankie Gavin: all-time great or over-hyped sell-out?
there is no greatest.
only delusions of the cosmic mind.
# Posted on April 19th 2008 by Bodhi
Re: Frankie Gavin: all-time great or over-hyped sell-out?
'commercial vulgarity of McGoldrickesque proportions'
What a moronic thing to say.
# Posted on April 19th 2008 by bogman
Re: Frankie Gavin: all-time great or over-hyped sell-out?
Can any of you play half as good as Frankie?
Reading your posts I dont think you have a clue about the
cheoil.
# Posted on April 19th 2008 by gooseinthenettles
Re: Frankie Gavin: all-time great or over-hyped sell-out?
gooseinthenettles - yours is an excellent post. Nice to hear the views of someone who has some sense of reality.
# Posted on April 19th 2008 by bogman
Re: Frankie Gavin: all-time great or over-hyped sell-out?
that album with Alec Finn would be one of my desert island discs quite regardless of any selling/not selling-out.
even if he were the antichrist.
oh,wait - that may be a plus these days...
# Posted on April 19th 2008 by biggus dave
Re: Frankie Gavin: all-time great or over-hyped sell-out?
Frankie (and anyone else) can play whatever they want. If he can make money and make a living out of playing music, fair play to him.
# Posted on April 19th 2008 by TheSilverSpear
Re: Frankie Gavin: all-time great or over-hyped sell-out?
Haven't a clue about the ceol you mean. Why the cheoil? Morons?
# Posted on April 19th 2008 by richard white
Re: Frankie Gavin: all-time great or over-hyped sell-out?
He should get a job if he has to urinate on the talent he has by deforming it with intrusion fusion nonsense
# Posted on April 19th 2008 by richard white
Re: Frankie Gavin: all-time great or over-hyped sell-out?
Have you contributed more to the tradition?
# Posted on April 19th 2008 by bogman
Re: Frankie Gavin: all-time great or over-hyped sell-out?
Bogman i suppose having read your profile where you cite Kila and other deforms of trad as influences then i guess we're on a totally different wavelength and the reality you see is very much removed from the reality of the true greats and inheritors of our music such as Ennis, Clancy, McFadden and Early. There is no analysis or critue in any of your posts. Is there anything going on upstairs?
# Posted on April 19th 2008 by richard white
Re: Frankie Gavin: all-time great or over-hyped sell-out?
The reason there is no analysis in my posts on this thread is because the subject is pathetic. We are on a different wavelength, there is no doubt about that but just because I like a variety of trad based music doesn't mean to say I don't respect the tradition in a more simple form.
Also, I do NOT cite Kila as an influence, I mention them in a list of bands that I like.
And have you contributed more than Frankie Gavin to the tradition?
# Posted on April 19th 2008 by bogman
Re: Frankie Gavin: all-time great or over-hyped sell-out?
"just because I like a variety of trad based music doesn't mean to say I don't respect the tradition in a more simple form."
This is such an ignorant comment. Simple form? you honsetly think that the music of Kila and other bands is more complicated than the likes of Clancy, ennis, McFadden or Early's music. I strongly reject this. The real traditional music played by these masters is much more intricate and delicate form of music. It is certainly not simple. I hate when real traditional music is degenerated by such comments. its disrespectful in my opinion.
# Posted on April 19th 2008 by richard white
Re: Frankie Gavin: all-time great or over-hyped sell-out?
Rubbish. The ignorance is all yours
# Posted on April 19th 2008 by bogman
Re: Frankie Gavin: all-time great or over-hyped sell-out?
And yes i will contribute more. And no fusion tripe either
# Posted on April 19th 2008 by richard white
Re: Frankie Gavin: all-time great or over-hyped sell-out?
So you will contribute more than Frankie Gavin?
# Posted on April 19th 2008 by bogman
Re: Frankie Gavin: all-time great or over-hyped sell-out?
Yes
# Posted on April 19th 2008 by richard white
Re: Frankie Gavin: all-time great or over-hyped sell-out?
Frankie Gavin that played in De Dannan?
# Posted on April 19th 2008 by bogman
Re: Frankie Gavin: all-time great or over-hyped sell-out?
Explain whats tradition in a more simple form?
# Posted on April 19th 2008 by richard white
Re: Frankie Gavin: all-time great or over-hyped sell-out?
Why can't you explain yourself from a musical point of view?
# Posted on April 19th 2008 by richard white
Re: Frankie Gavin: all-time great or over-hyped sell-out?
a more simple form! Ridiculous. pathetic moronic is right.
# Posted on April 19th 2008 by richard white
Re: Frankie Gavin: all-time great or over-hyped sell-out?
A major part of the strength of traditional music is it's simplicity. Simplicity does not devalue the music and it is not disrespectful to call it simple.
# Posted on April 19th 2008 by bogman
Re: Frankie Gavin: all-time great or over-hyped sell-out?
i think bogmans bogged down in the stance he initially took and its too late to backtrack!
No shame in it bogman, its happened to the best of us.
While i dont agree with all of your points snowflake you are essentially correct in your assessment of frankie, he's like.. so 1979!
By the way how are you going to surpass frankies legacy?!?
# Posted on April 19th 2008 by VocalDivaSteed
Re: Frankie Gavin: all-time great or over-hyped sell-out?
No backtracks and no shame here VocalDivaSteed. Shame on the one who is arrogant enough to public state that they will do more for traditional music than Frankie Gavin has. Not HAS done more but WILL do more.
# Posted on April 19th 2008 by bogman
Re: Frankie Gavin: all-time great or over-hyped sell-out?
Bogman i suspect you can't hear or apprecite the subtleties and intricacies of great solo playing of our masters. Can you hear Patsy Tuouhy's back-stiching on O'Neill's cyclinders? Nothing simple there. While you imply that the music of Daimh and Liz Carrol is more complicated. I feel like i'm talking to a brick wall here. Simple music. when Gerald Cambrehis came to ireland he described a music that was far from simple. i hate to see people not recognising the real merit in our itm.
# Posted on April 19th 2008 by richard white
Re: Frankie Gavin: all-time great or over-hyped sell-out?
I know it seems arrogant. But what if its true. Anyways you keep to your Kila and music mongrel hybrid stuff
# Posted on April 19th 2008 by richard white
Re: Frankie Gavin: all-time great or over-hyped sell-out?
You are making a mountain out of a molehill thesnowflakes.
'the subtleties and intricacies of great solo playing of our masters.'
Yes, the subtleties and intricacies on a simple theme.
# Posted on April 19th 2008 by bogman
Re: Frankie Gavin: all-time great or over-hyped sell-out?
who knows he could be better than frankie over time! Although probably not the case I think its quite arrogant to rule that out bogman.
# Posted on April 19th 2008 by VocalDivaSteed
Re: Frankie Gavin: all-time great or over-hyped sell-out?
Yes, it does seem arrogant. 'But what if it's true' ??? Sorry, even then it would still be arrogant.
# Posted on April 19th 2008 by bogman
Re: Frankie Gavin: all-time great or over-hyped sell-out?
A mountain out of a Noel Hill you mean.
a simple theme? retreating?
# Posted on April 19th 2008 by richard white
Re: Frankie Gavin: all-time great or over-hyped sell-out?
real irish music is a mountain (not a molehill as you insultingly put it bogman) we are all climbing. Unfortunately frankie thinks he's reached the summit. I never want to get there but I'll enjoy the climb. Bogman you are obviously in the foothills, come join us the views lovely!
# Posted on April 19th 2008 by VocalDivaSteed
Re: Frankie Gavin: all-time great or over-hyped sell-out?
Dear, dear, talk about 'Anything going on upstairs?'
# Posted on April 19th 2008 by bogman
Re: Frankie Gavin: all-time great or over-hyped sell-out?
I'm being honest with you bogman and i answered your question honestly and yet you call me arrogant. Don't ask a question if you do not want a frank answer.
# Posted on April 19th 2008 by richard white
Re: Frankie Gavin: all-time great or over-hyped sell-out?
Your choice of music clearly illustrates a uncultured, foul taste for irish-flavoured music which is all too common today. You then have the nerve to label the great stuff as a "more simple form". Anything goin on upstairs? Maybe but it sounds terrible
# Posted on April 19th 2008 by richard white
Re: Frankie Gavin: all-time great or over-hyped sell-out?
I said 'You are making a mountain out of a molehill thesnowflakes.'
That was not directed at the music. How could you interprate it that way?I was not saying the music is more of a molehill than a mountain. I was refering to the fact that thesnowflakes was making a big deal of my use of the word simple.
# Posted on April 19th 2008 by bogman
Re: Frankie Gavin: all-time great or over-hyped sell-out?
thesnowflakes, you have nothing in your profile section. You really should put something up about the fact that you will do more for trad than Frankie Gavin. I would say that is quite important.
# Posted on April 19th 2008 by bogman
Re: Frankie Gavin: all-time great or over-hyped sell-out?
Both
# Posted on April 19th 2008 by bodhran bliss
Re: Frankie Gavin: all-time great or over-hyped sell-out?
God the windups and fights here are so boring these days
# Posted on April 19th 2008 by Dow
Re: Frankie Gavin: all-time great or over-hyped sell-out?
Bogman, you're wasting your time. When people start threads like this so the musically inept can try to lower the bar in order to deal with their jealousy -- it's best just to walk away as they tighten the nooses around their necks.
# Posted on April 19th 2008 by Phantom Button
Re: Frankie Gavin: all-time great or over-hyped sell-out?
Found this clip, it must be 'don't touch the green linnet' and 'thesnowflakes worst nightmare. Frankie Gavin, Mike McGoldrick and Sharron Shannon playing together. Not only that but the first tune is Scottish and the second is by Liz Carroll.
Is this really damaging traditional music?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_0WvoqOgC7g
# Posted on April 19th 2008 by bogman
Re: Frankie Gavin: all-time great or over-hyped sell-out?
Honestly i don't like that clip. Its just my preference. Getting back to the original point you seem to have forgotten that i actually really like Frankie's first album and his flute album and credit is due here and given. However the point people are making is that he has strayed from this for whatever reason and the results to my ear do not do him justice. It has nothing to do with jealousy Phantom Button as i am a fan of his early recordings. I fail to understand how this thread could possibly lower the bar.I understand that obviously we have completely different tastes.
# Posted on April 19th 2008 by richard white
Re: Frankie Gavin: all-time great or over-hyped sell-out?
Our tastes are very similar actually, but the difference is that I think it's a waste of time to trash Frankie just because he ventured into a couple of projects you don't approve of.
# Posted on April 20th 2008 by Phantom Button
Re: Frankie Gavin: all-time great or over-hyped sell-out?
snowflakes. You really have a bee in your chip on your shoulder bonnet thing going on. Listen to Button and Bogman. And listen to the music you like ... and don't bother listening to the music you don't. (and by the way, there is no correlation between quality and complexity)
# Posted on April 20th 2008 by llig leahcim
Re: Frankie Gavin: all-time great or over-hyped sell-out?
I like how he's pointed out a bridge between the Baroque
and what we consider to be Irish trad today. But yeah - I
like his old stuff better than his new stuff - how often does that
come up in pop music eg Joni Mitchell, Pearl Jam and REM
# Posted on April 20th 2008 by Hup
Re: Frankie Gavin: all-time great or over-hyped sell-out?
I've met Frankie a few times and find him to be an incredible musician and a complex human being. But so many people with that sort of musical genius tend to be complex individuals. After a long chat, (that included Tony McMahon,) about Frankie's musical legacy and contributions to ITM, I told Frankie that my absolute favorite recording of his was the one he and Alec did in NY. I told him this on the heels of his recording of Fierce Traditional, and his reaction seemed to be disappointment. It's funny how we tend to appreciate the early recordings of artists we like more than the recent ones, but the artists themselves seem to be just the opposite.
# Posted on April 20th 2008 by Phantom Button
Re: Frankie Gavin: all-time great or over-hyped sell-out?
That's such a coincidence. When I met Frankie, he mentioned this time when some American guy kept tapping him on the shoulder and attention-seeking when he was trying to have a conversation with Tony McMahon. Apparently, whenever he'd tell the guy to go away, the guy would say "geez, you really are complex aren't you?" Apparently when this guy started babbling incoherently about Frankie's recordings, the two of them just stared at him blankly for ages until he went away. Strange that. Maybe he has similar conversations all the time.
# Posted on April 20th 2008 by Dow
Re: Frankie Gavin: all-time great or over-hyped sell-out?
We already know about your fixation with name-dropping, Mark; no need to fictionalize my account in order to make yourself feel better.
# Posted on April 20th 2008 by Phantom Button
Re: Frankie Gavin: all-time great or over-hyped sell-out?
Button, do you mean that yourself, McMahon and Gavin - the three of you - had a long chat about Frankie's musical legacy and contributions to ITM?
# Posted on April 20th 2008 by llig leahcim
Re: Frankie Gavin: all-time great or over-hyped sell-out?
I generally make it a rule not to post onto discussions where the instigator and conspirators have blank profiles.
You can say what you like about any musician - but it is obvious you don't have the fortitude to say it to their faces, instead you would rather stir up divison with your derision. Especially where they are better musicians than you, have made a living from making music, have more hair, etc.
I'd rather than have a pint and listen to anything that Gavin has played on than sit here and read this drivel.
# Posted on April 21st 2008 by Greenwiggle
Re: Frankie Gavin: all-time great or over-hyped sell-out?
gwan then, Greenwiggle, back to your pint
# Posted on April 21st 2008 by Hup
Re: Frankie Gavin: all-time great or over-hyped sell-out?
Yes Danny, that's exactly what happened. It was at a pub following a solo performance that Frankie gave here in the SF area where Tony was invited on stage at the end because he happened to be in town. Frankie, Tony, Frankie's agent and some friends were at a pub near the concert venue. I was sitting next to Frankie and he asked me what I thought of his solo music/story-telling show. He wanted to get some feedback because it was only the second time he tried it. Tony overheard us from the opposite side of the table and wanted to join in. Tony was determined to add his thoughts because in order to get out from where he was sitting everyone else had to get up and move out of the way. He even knocked over a glass of wine in the process. When Tony got over to us he sat at a table just behind Frankie I so we turned our chairs around and the three of us had a chat about the whole thing.
# Posted on April 21st 2008 by Phantom Button
Re: Frankie Gavin: all-time great or over-hyped sell-out?
a table behind Frankie and I
# Posted on April 21st 2008 by Phantom Button
Re: Frankie Gavin: all-time great or over-hyped sell-out?
Sorry... the above was a response to Michael Gill, not Danny.
# Posted on April 21st 2008 by Phantom Button
Re: Frankie Gavin: all-time great or over-hyped sell-out?
I can imagine Frankie Gavin discussing the relative merits of a show, I'm just not so sure he'd have a "long chat about his musical legacy".
# Posted on April 21st 2008 by llig leahcim
Re: Frankie Gavin: all-time great or over-hyped sell-out?
It was initially about the merits of his show, but because I'm easily recognizable, even from the stage, he remembered seeing me at a lot of the shows they did at the Great American Music Hall here in SF and he mentioned that before asking me what I thought of his solo show. I think he was interested about what a long-time fan would think.
I was answering the question from that perspective, which would be involving an overview of about 25 or 30 years. I've been in the audience and near the front at almost every show. I've seen them go through a lot of changes and, for me, hearing Frankie's stories was very interesting and entertaining. But someone who hasn't been a long-time fan, like myself, might not be as interested. Among other things, this was the main gist of my review, and when Tony heard what was being discussed he wanted to come over and add his opinions as well..
That's when the discussion really got underway concerning Frankie's musical legacy and how it related to his solo performance that night. This discussion lasted a good while before it dissolved into a rather heated debate about Tony's RTE program that I think was called, "The Blackbird and the Bell Jar."
# Posted on April 22nd 2008 by Phantom Button
Re: Frankie Gavin: all-time great or over-hyped sell-out?
Actually, after reading that back I think a better description of the discussion about Tony's TV program would be "colorful" rather than "heated."
# Posted on April 22nd 2008 by Phantom Button