The thread on synesthesia reminded me of a very strange problem I have that has already mystified two doctors.
When I hear certain tones above a certain volume, my vision jumps around like I'm standing in an earthquake! For example, when I call someone on my cell phone, if I'm holding it to my left ear it's pointless trying to read any thing while the other person's phone is ringing.
All I can figure is this: you can move your head around and keep your eyes focused on an object because your inner ear gives your brain information about the position of your head, and your brain adjusts the position of your eyeballs accordingly. I think that for some reason, certain loud sounds (B on the A string does it) are being interpreted by my brain as a signal from my inner ear that my head is moving, and it tries to move my eyes, which tell my brain that they aren't staying focused on whatever I'm looking at, so my brain moves my eyes again, and so on.
It hasn't always been like this, and I realized one night that it started about six months or so after I bought my current fiddle, which is much louder than the student instrument I'd been using. So now I wear an ear plug in my left ear when I play, in case the instrument has been damaging my hearing.
Anybody else ever experience anything like this? Googling "violin" or "fiddle" and "hearing problems" didn't turn up anything.
Yes,I get that too when i hear very loud noises especially bass sounds at festivals.My head feels like it's being pushed to one side (although it doesn't move) and my vision jumps.My doctor told me that it was sympton of low blood pressure.
Hey yeah, I experience exactly what you said, dafydd; I can never sit too close to the stage at a concert because if I do it makes my head feel like it's being pushed or jerked around and my eyes are all over the place; it's an extremely uncomfortable feeling. Maybe this is similar to what hotsauce is talking about? I never thought to ask a doctor about it because it only happens to me with really loud noises and cranked bass (including noises like people yelling) so I figured I was just sensitive to too loud noises.
I find it interesting that it was triggered by your new fiddle, hotsauce.
DAmn hotsauce, Wiki says you have syphilis!!!! But DON'T PANIC!! DON'T PANIC!! The really bad stuff takes a while to happen. Now where are those emoticons?
Thanks Mike, I'm glad to give it a name. It also explains why my balance can be pretty horrible when I first get out of bed in the morning, since orthostatic hypotension is sometimes an issue for me. Unfortunately, it doesn't look like there's any treatment. I wonder now if the new fiddle was just a red herring, and this is something that would have happened anyway.
In a sort-of-related way, in TV the old "tube" cameras (pre-1985 or so) often went "microphonic" with loud music - you'd get effects where the pick-up tube would be affected by vibrations and it would produce banding across the picture - sort of similar to the effect of badly-tuned analogue TV sets. Thankfully (in my opinion!) those are all things of the past.
Tullio's phenomena (also called Tulio's Phenomena).
this is the involuntary movement (nystagmus) of your eyes caused by loud "pulses" of sound. (generally triggered by one “bad” ear, not both)
Hennebert's Sign. Nystagmus caused by changes in barometric air pressure in the (effected) ear canal. To test this, try closing off the ear canal with your index finger and "pumping" it. It will cause the room to "jump" or shift.
I also have hearing loss, tinnitus, chronic balance issues, hypersensitivity to “sharp” sounds, horrible fatigue issues… (I have been tested as having approx 68% of “normal” balance – this means for me to remain upright requires a conscious effort, and is no longer an autonomic process. This – as my neurologist describes – is like sitting your maths final exam 24 HOURS A DAY SEVEN DAYS A WEEK. For this reason the brain just gets SOOOOOO tired, I must sleep halfway through each day, but sleep about 14 hours out of 24. (I used to get by on 6.5 hours a night quite happily). This “taxing” of the brain also causes confusion, memory loss, memory black-outs, etc etc). I can also hear my eye-balls move and myself blinking. The list goes on (and gets boring after a while!!).
All of this has been caused by a head injury that has caused (or aggravated an existing) Superior Canal Dehiscence AND a caused an Endolymphatic Fistula. The fistula was operated on (which improved my balance from below 40% - and reduced my hypersensitivity a bit), by “patching” the round and oval windows.
BOY have you lot now got some googling to do!!!!!!! It took me YEARS to find all this out. Even some of the best ENT guys I’ve seen have never heard of most of this stuff. Your GP will certainly have NEVER heard of any of it!!!!!!!
NOTE. You do NOT need to have all of these symptoms to have a Fistula or a Dehiscence. Some people will only have Tullio’s (for example). If you have ANY single symptom, talk to the best ENT guy you can find. (cut and paste this little rave to take with you if you like)
But here’s the real kicker!!!!!! If you are put in a situation where the floor moves subtly when your brain does not expect it to, you can (as I have quite a few times until I worked out what was going on) have a major anxiety attack. I was in a large multi-story shopping mall once when a truck was rolling up an external loading ramp – making the whole floor shake almost imperceptibly. But fortunately I realised it was happening – asked my wife if the floor WAS if fact moving – which she confirmed it was – and I have never had the same problem since. Once your brain knows to expect the movement – the cognitive conflict disappears. This will only ever happen on busy city streets, shopping centres, crowded halls etc - particularly in places with a “floor” that you would think about as being solid actually isn’t (think of a road-bridge as a good example – they move as a truck goes past, but you brain is viewing it as a “solid” surface). I have a nightmarish wondering about how many people diagnosed with Agoraphobia (and many other similar “social” anxiety issues) that in fact have mechanical damage to their inner ear like I have. Given that things like Valium help both issues, boy it would so easy to confuse the two!!
Cue the violins for the sad ending… I used to be an award winning sound engineer and editor. Er, suffice it to say – that’s all in the past.
I hope that has helped some-one out there. It has taken me 22 years to find out what the %@})&!!! was wrong with me.
Loud noises and... *vision* problems?
Loud noises and... *vision* problems?
The thread on synesthesia reminded me of a very strange problem I have that has already mystified two doctors.
When I hear certain tones above a certain volume, my vision jumps around like I'm standing in an earthquake! For example, when I call someone on my cell phone, if I'm holding it to my left ear it's pointless trying to read any thing while the other person's phone is ringing.
All I can figure is this: you can move your head around and keep your eyes focused on an object because your inner ear gives your brain information about the position of your head, and your brain adjusts the position of your eyeballs accordingly. I think that for some reason, certain loud sounds (B on the A string does it) are being interpreted by my brain as a signal from my inner ear that my head is moving, and it tries to move my eyes, which tell my brain that they aren't staying focused on whatever I'm looking at, so my brain moves my eyes again, and so on.
It hasn't always been like this, and I realized one night that it started about six months or so after I bought my current fiddle, which is much louder than the student instrument I'd been using. So now I wear an ear plug in my left ear when I play, in case the instrument has been damaging my hearing.
Anybody else ever experience anything like this? Googling "violin" or "fiddle" and "hearing problems" didn't turn up anything.
# Posted on April 17th 2008 by hotsauce
Re: Loud noises and... *vision* problems?
Yes,I get that too when i hear very loud noises especially bass sounds at festivals.My head feels like it's being pushed to one side (although it doesn't move) and my vision jumps.My doctor told me that it was sympton of low blood pressure.
# Posted on April 17th 2008 by dafydd
Re: Loud noises and... *vision* problems?
symptom.
# Posted on April 17th 2008 by dafydd
Re: Loud noises and... *vision* problems?
Hey yeah, I experience exactly what you said, dafydd; I can never sit too close to the stage at a concert because if I do it makes my head feel like it's being pushed or jerked around and my eyes are all over the place; it's an extremely uncomfortable feeling. Maybe this is similar to what hotsauce is talking about? I never thought to ask a doctor about it because it only happens to me with really loud noises and cranked bass (including noises like people yelling) so I figured I was just sensitive to too loud noises.
I find it interesting that it was triggered by your new fiddle, hotsauce.
# Posted on April 17th 2008 by Tasia
Re: Loud noises and... *vision* problems?
I've never mentioned this to anyone except my doctor.It is a very uncomfortable feeling.I wonder if there's a scientific name for it?
# Posted on April 17th 2008 by dafydd
Re: Loud noises and... *vision* problems?
Oscillopsia the sensation of vision moving you described; probably from Tullio Phenomenon, which includes sound induces oscilllopsia.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tullio_phenomenon
I once did a paper on oscillopsia when I was a resident. It can have numerous causes but Tullio Phenomenon may be what you have.
Talk to your doctor again.
Mike Keyes
http://www.mikekeyes.com
# Posted on April 17th 2008 by mikeyes
Re: Loud noises and... *vision* problems?
DAmn hotsauce, Wiki says you have syphilis!!!! But DON'T PANIC!! DON'T PANIC!! The really bad stuff takes a while to happen. Now where are those emoticons?
# Posted on April 17th 2008 by Ron Foreman
Re: Loud noises and... *vision* problems?
Very interesting..
Anyone read the book "Musicollphia?
http://www.amazon.com/Musicophilia-Tales-Music-Oliver-Sacks/dp/1400040817/ref=pd_bbs_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1208474132&sr=8-1
It's amazing what can happen with the brain and sound.
Glad you could call it Mike.. That's awesome.
# Posted on April 18th 2008 by madfluter
Re: Loud noises and... *vision* problems?
Thanks Mike, I'm glad to give it a name. It also explains why my balance can be pretty horrible when I first get out of bed in the morning, since orthostatic hypotension is sometimes an issue for me. Unfortunately, it doesn't look like there's any treatment. I wonder now if the new fiddle was just a red herring, and this is something that would have happened anyway.
# Posted on April 18th 2008 by hotsauce
Re: Loud noises and... *vision* problems?
In a sort-of-related way, in TV the old "tube" cameras (pre-1985 or so) often went "microphonic" with loud music - you'd get effects where the pick-up tube would be affected by vibrations and it would produce banding across the picture - sort of similar to the effect of badly-tuned analogue TV sets. Thankfully (in my opinion!) those are all things of the past.
# Posted on April 18th 2008 by Mark Harmer
Re: Loud noises and... *vision* problems?
So in other news, I just discovered that the rest of you can't hear your eyeballs move. I never knew that was unusual.
# Posted on April 19th 2008 by hotsauce
Re: Loud noises and... *vision* problems?
Hi Folks.
So here it is....
I have;-
Tullio's phenomena (also called Tulio's Phenomena).
this is the involuntary movement (nystagmus) of your eyes caused by loud "pulses" of sound. (generally triggered by one “bad” ear, not both)
Hennebert's Sign. Nystagmus caused by changes in barometric air pressure in the (effected) ear canal. To test this, try closing off the ear canal with your index finger and "pumping" it. It will cause the room to "jump" or shift.
I also have hearing loss, tinnitus, chronic balance issues, hypersensitivity to “sharp” sounds, horrible fatigue issues… (I have been tested as having approx 68% of “normal” balance – this means for me to remain upright requires a conscious effort, and is no longer an autonomic process. This – as my neurologist describes – is like sitting your maths final exam 24 HOURS A DAY SEVEN DAYS A WEEK. For this reason the brain just gets SOOOOOO tired, I must sleep halfway through each day, but sleep about 14 hours out of 24. (I used to get by on 6.5 hours a night quite happily). This “taxing” of the brain also causes confusion, memory loss, memory black-outs, etc etc). I can also hear my eye-balls move and myself blinking. The list goes on (and gets boring after a while!!).
All of this has been caused by a head injury that has caused (or aggravated an existing) Superior Canal Dehiscence AND a caused an Endolymphatic Fistula. The fistula was operated on (which improved my balance from below 40% - and reduced my hypersensitivity a bit), by “patching” the round and oval windows.
BOY have you lot now got some googling to do!!!!!!! It took me YEARS to find all this out. Even some of the best ENT guys I’ve seen have never heard of most of this stuff. Your GP will certainly have NEVER heard of any of it!!!!!!!
NOTE. You do NOT need to have all of these symptoms to have a Fistula or a Dehiscence. Some people will only have Tullio’s (for example). If you have ANY single symptom, talk to the best ENT guy you can find. (cut and paste this little rave to take with you if you like)
But here’s the real kicker!!!!!! If you are put in a situation where the floor moves subtly when your brain does not expect it to, you can (as I have quite a few times until I worked out what was going on) have a major anxiety attack. I was in a large multi-story shopping mall once when a truck was rolling up an external loading ramp – making the whole floor shake almost imperceptibly. But fortunately I realised it was happening – asked my wife if the floor WAS if fact moving – which she confirmed it was – and I have never had the same problem since. Once your brain knows to expect the movement – the cognitive conflict disappears. This will only ever happen on busy city streets, shopping centres, crowded halls etc - particularly in places with a “floor” that you would think about as being solid actually isn’t (think of a road-bridge as a good example – they move as a truck goes past, but you brain is viewing it as a “solid” surface). I have a nightmarish wondering about how many people diagnosed with Agoraphobia (and many other similar “social” anxiety issues) that in fact have mechanical damage to their inner ear like I have. Given that things like Valium help both issues, boy it would so easy to confuse the two!!
Cue the violins for the sad ending… I used to be an award winning sound engineer and editor. Er, suffice it to say – that’s all in the past.
I hope that has helped some-one out there. It has taken me 22 years to find out what the %@})&!!! was wrong with me.
cheers
Soundthinker
# Posted on May 21st 2008 by Soundthinker