As I've just said in another thread, I just don't see the need for session 'hosts'. Maybe this harks back to the anarchy thread we had recently. I don't want to be lead by a 'session leader'. I don't want to lead sessions either. I just want to turn up somewhere, half planned in a half-arsed sort of a way, and swap a bunch of tunes with some mates.
So, what if I'm travelling? Strangers are just friends you haven't met yet. [picture smiley throwing up in airplane sick bag]
benhall, you're too quick for me. Here's what said, on that other thread:
A minor quibble, but to me:
Session "host" is the owner of the venue--the guy who lets you play in his room, and maybe gives you a beer on the house.
Session "leader" is the person responsible for communicating with the host about the session, and making sure the session stays in good standing with the host
By my definition, there has to be a host--and the host must be kept happy, if he is to keep hosting your session. I think it's important to remember that.
"Leader" is another matter--fire away, everybody. ;>}
And let it be known across the land that a female host would gain the title of "hostess"
But try not to let it advance your aesthetic understanding.
With all aloof, paradoxical assurance replies, try not to think of it in terms of right and wrong. Hosts/Hostess can be a guide. They will help you find your path.
Ah! I see you're getting into the anarchistic spirit, feardearg!
And the answer is ... well, of course there's no bloody answer.
Hey c'mon, folks! Back to the question. Hosts, leaders, whatever the heck it is folks call 'em, why do we need 'em?
PB mentioned one possible reason on that other thread - 'cos the publican wants a session. That happens round here, too. There's lots of sessions round here, relatively speaking. But the ones where the pub books someone to organise it, as opposed to us session-type chasps (and chaspesses, to appease Sir D) going cap in hand to a pub we want to play in, mostly fail.
D'y'know, it's really hard to understand that last sentence of mine, isn't it? Who cares? I can make language mean what I want it to mean. So there.
Cross-post. My post was in response to your post about 'right or wrong, feardearg.
Right, to answer your next one (hopefully before you can reply with your speedy wit and ready keyboard ): I mentioned one reason in my last post, which had been previously mentioned by PB. It doesn't work well over here at any rate ...
But, wherever there are, in a given area, a few musicians who fancy a few tunes every now and then, I cannot see any need for a 'leader'. For the most part, it's only going to wind people up (especially me).
I would say that most times you don't need leaders because the "concept" is the guide and leader. Friendship is the guiding principle.
But there are some situations where one longs for a strong leader. Sometimes the clueless will show up and need extra guidance, either in the way of correction, escorting out the door, instruction, physical restraint, etc...It makes it easier when there is a leader...someone who can act in the name of the group and its welfare.
Anyway, I'm serious about this. You hear it all the time on this site: situations get resolved 'because the session leader sorts it out'; 'the session leader's job is to [insert almost anything you can think of eg make sure there's always tunes being played]'.
But they're just not necessary. If you didn't have session leaders, there would still be sessions. Because musicians who like sessions can't live without them. And they'd be better sessions. Without 'session leaders' being employed by a pub to organise a session, they'd be in the pubs that the musicians would like to go to; without 'session leaders' deciding which tunes to play and when, the musicians will end up playing the tunes *they* want to, and they won't be beholden to anybody - they can always find another pub.
Of course, there may not be free drinks without pubs paying session leaders to organise sessions and all the crap that goes with it. But if people are really saying they'll only go out to a session if there are free drinks, I think it's pretty forced anyway.
Your point about the clueless, feardearg. Yes, sadly they do show up - too often. But not every time. Which means that some sessions are decent, and it's worth going to the rest for the ones that are good. You never know what's going to happen on the night.
And I don't think having a 'leader' really works in those situations - the situation is going to be awkward anyway.
"Excuse me, Mr/Mrs/Miss/Ms pub owner, we know you are trying to run a business here--but a few/several/dozens of us would like to come here and play tunes/make noise for hours on end, whether your paying customers like it or not. Of course you have no objections, right? And if you do, don't bother telling any of us, because we have decided that no one is going to speak for us. We don't believe in rules."
Now, what right-thinking pub owner could possibly disagree with that? ;>}
You seem to have had some negative experiences. I can't imagine a session leader dictating what tunes and when. I wouldn't go to that kind of session, either.
Decision making can stress the neural circuitry involving the amygdala and hippocampus — is thought to underlie anxiety.
When confronted by a host with unpleasant and potentially harmful stimuli such as foul odors or tastes, PET-scans show increased bloodflow in the amygdala.
This might suggest that anxiety is a protective mechanism designed to prevent the organism from engaging in potentially harmful behaviors.
Unless the host (or hostess,) (( or the peoples front of judea))
contracts a virus.
Around here, and I'm guessing elsewhere, if you want to keep a session alive for more than a few months, you need at least two people who will, come h*ll or high water, either be there every week or can replace themselves. Call them hosts, anchors, leaders, whatever, but I've found that that steady committment to showing up every week is appreciated by the owners of the venues we play in.
Host are the people who let you play in their space - whether its a pub or someone's kitchen. As for session leaders - I don't know. I think someone needs to be on point to show up and be ready to provide some tunes for the time that the host wants/has invited the tunes. I don't particulary like the "circle of death" as mickray calls it, but in my case, I put up with it because I am not a regular at the session. This works in one of the venues that mickray talks about and that is fine with me (I show up there every once in a while). If I were to become a regular, I might suggest a different idea, but I hesitate to do that because I don't want to be a session leader. My favorite sessions are the ones where there are regulars who know each other and their tunes, welcome visitors and the odd "known"player who only shows up once in a while, and everyone has a great time playing whatever string of tunes strikes them at the moment, and we all keep doing it until its time to leave. But, I do recognize that someone needs to arrange all this with the host and I give thanks to the person who does that because it gives me a place to go on a particular day/night if I have the time to play tunes.
Yes, we need leaders, there are some sessions that would not happen if leaders were not there (and paid) every week. Some of the better players would not be accessable if not for this. A local session has started up within walking distance of my house where I have lived for 9 years with great players that I have never played with before. These led sessions give access to the pro players that we would not otherwise have, it is sad that they do not come out otherwise but there is not getting around that. There is also another session 1/2 hour drive away that I would not go to if the leader were not tied to it. I know that the music should be free brigade will disagree but I would not be going to these places if those people were not there.
Like most things, it depends on the quality of the leaders. Some sessions have required great skills in not letting some players hog the evening, making sure competent but shyer players don't get left out, stopping enthusiastic but less skilled players from trampling over the session, getting the session going and starting sets when there is a lull and. of course, acting as PR officer betweens hosts, other pub users and musicians!!
John Culhane wrote: "My favorite sessions are the ones where there are regulars who know each other and their tunes, welcome visitors and the odd "known"player who only shows up once in a while, and everyone has a great time playing whatever string of tunes strikes them at the moment, and we all keep doing it until its time to leave."
This pretty well describes how our sessions work. Some people call me the session leader, but really all I am is the go-between with the publican to keep them happy and things running smoothly. And sometimes other people play that role, too.
So our sessions work without a leader because we're all friends, we've played together a long time, and no one is trying to be the center of attention.
I was going to quote that comment from John Culhane as well. It's *exactly* what I'm talking about. And tarantella's comment above is *exactly* what I'm complaining about. If that's how it's run, I for one won't be there.
Liaison with the pub? All you need is for someone - doesn't matter who - to phone out of courtesy, if you're going to a pub that you haven't been to before or that you go to irregularly. It's no big deal. And I'd rather be in a pub that tolerates us, rather than one that is gagging for an Irish session and is therefore going to have its own expectations.
Meanwhile, Gavin, where are those fantastic sessions with all these wonderful pros eh? Gimme gimme gimme!
"What I like about a session is that you sit down with friends and see what will happen, let the mind associate freely and see what tunes you think of. In some situations an instinctive system of seniority will kick in but more often things are free flowing. Sessions with 'session lists' and 'leaders' seem regimented to the extreme and to be avoided."
Posted by Kilfarboy on the Chicago sessions thread.
Man after my own heart.
(Thanks for the whistle instruction, too, kilfar (I assume it's you?) - I'm learning a lot.)
Will writes: "So our sessions work without a leader because we're all friends, we've played together a long time, and no one is trying to be the center of attention."
I don't think session hosts are trying to be the "center of attention." Sometimes they're just custodians who show up on time and arrange the tables and chairs and will be there on the nights when others happen to stay home. Hosts are people who are capable of playing tunes and making good music even if no one else happens to show up. Sometimes they function as placeholders so that any given session doesn't fade into oblivion as a result of a temporary lag in interest. The session hosts are the people you know will at least be there after you’ve made the effort to leave the comfort of your home, drive to the pub and find parking. I’ve seen many a host-less session fade from existence, not because they weren’t good sessions, but rather just because there were no hosts to guarantee their survival.
...and I've tried to be here to help explain it, every time you've complained, ben my man.
If you have someone who dictates what will be played, who will play it, when it will be played, what will happen next, and needs to be called the session leader, then that's not a leader, it's a freaking tyrant. Or, it's the leader of a band at a gig. Do these exist in a session environment? If they do, it's not a session anymore, it's a gig.
I think what you normally have is what Phantom Button and Will explained very well already. At least, that's the de facto role I've been told I'm fulfilling for our session. I didn't look for it, didn't want it, but there it is, because I'm the one who arranged it with the pub owner, I'm the one who's there every week no matter what, and I'm the one everyone asks questions of. I also print those set lists every week personalized for each person listing all the tunes we'll be playing and in what order over the course of the evening. [/sarcasm]
Oh yeah, and the 47 millionth time, feardearg runs BEGINNERS' sessions. [bangs head on table repeatedly]
I think you're answering me on the wrong thread - nobody's mentioned feardearg's essions on this thread have they? Ah, that'll be because you head a splode, I presume?
Meanwhile, I get what Will's saying fine. I start to get jumpy with what PB or yourself are saying here, SWFL. 'arranged it with the pub owner' - what's to arrange? One phone call "Is it OK for a bunch of us to turn up and play a few tunes?" does it fine. "I'm the one everyone asks questions of" What's there to ask? You turn up, you play tunes, you go home.
Now, I wonder if you could just a splain those lists for me one more time?
I can think of only two circumstances in a session (not a paid gig or playing for dancers) where a tune list would be needed.
The first is if it a beginners' session where, by definition, they need all the help they can get.
The second is if it is a legal requirement, as it is in a few countries (Italy, I believe, being one of them). That would be a source of amusement in some of the sessions I go to, where a significant number of players don't really know the names of most of the tunes ("now was that the Silver Spear or the Silver Spire?") - they just play 'em. If it ever came to pass in the UK I can imagine a fair bit of inventive ingenuity coming into play - like having only the Irish names of the tunes on the list.
In retrospect I feel like the "It's a cookbook!" guy, sorry about that. "It's a beginner's session!" hence the lists, I guess? Teachers, students, etc? [shrug]
What's to arrange? You're blessed with living in an area rich with the music, apparently. Things are much different in other places. I don't do anything, except I go to the pub owners and ask to play there. Negotiate what days, act as the go between. I didn't seek these roles, but if they didn't get done, they wouldn't get done, and there'd be no session. Pub owners here are not like they are there. I don't lead anyone at the session or at any time, really, we're all grown adults and friends. We come from all over, some drive an hour or two, and there's a weekly email to say hi and let people know it's on, and who's confirmed for coming out that week. I get questions if the email is not on time. People slagging, calling me a slacker. Wanting to know if there's a session on this week or what. Exciting stuff, eh?
Yeah, we get someone who voluntarily does the weekly e-mail. And a valuable service it is. But it's just an e-mail, for goodness' sake. In your situation, rather you than me, SWFL, particularly if you're getting grief over it. I don't know how you put up with it.
I prefer the term 'Anchor Man' rather than Session Leader, which to my mind sounds too regimental. The Anchor Man is the person that always turns up and gets the session going Sometimes gets a few shillings as well from 'Mine Host' On occasions I've known the Anchor Man to play a few tunes and then let the others in the session get on with it while he has a long chat and a few jars with various people, or even nipping out for a smoke for long periods. He still got paid at the end of the night. That's taking the p in my book.
I occasionally frequent a couple of "rudderless" sessions that drift along without a leader - the regulars are beginner to intermediate standard and if no leaders turn up, I guess they are happy to play their 3 tunes then sit and gossip all night. If leaders do turn up, they still sit and gossip as the standard is either very poor (no leaders) or out of their league (flash players turn up).
I prefer to be a roving host a.k.a session hijacker.
Jack, I didn't make myself clear. I didn't mean to imply that the session anchor (or leader or host, whatever) wanted to be the center of attention.
More likely, some other player shows up who thinks the session is there just for them. They want to play only their tunes, start most of the sets, play louder than everyone else, and so on. When that happens, a session anchor can help neutralize that clueless player and turn things back to a less ego-centric circle.
Anchors/hosts/leaders... it's all the same, and yes, Ben, you can have sessions without them any time you want. My friends and I had a host-less session that ran for about a year and a half at a great little tavern in North Beach where we were spontaneously plied with drink to encourage us and the locals seemed to love it. The momentum was great considering no one was paid or leading it. But the session fizzled out after a year and a half only to be revived by someone else to last an even shorter amount of time. Currently there's no regular session in that pub and only brief sputters now and then.
The pub where the regular session is, that I go to now, has had sessions since 1975. It started with Joe Cooley and Kevin Keegan and after they were gone ran for a considerable amount of time on their momentum. Around 1988 when the publican realized the regular session at his pub was dwindling down and another was starting to take root in a pub down the street, he hired myself and a couple of friends to arrange a session at his pub. (He did it because he truly loves trad.) It worked, and the session has again taken root in his pub and expanded to being on two nights each week with rotating hosts/anchors. Had he not taken this action there might not be any regular session there today. When all the other pubs with sessions changed hands or realized there isn’t much profit in sessions the other sessions eventually died out. The session at this pub has persevered because of the publican’s support and the hiring of hosts/anchors.
There you go! He hired you because there was another one taking root down the street. So, no shortage of venues, or, apparently, of musicians wanting to play.
I just think it gives a better result for musicians if they turn up where and when *they* want to and are not beholden to someone who has hired them to be there.
And no, there's no profit in sessions (with some exceptions in Ireland and perhaps other parts of the world). That's why I don't expect free drinks or to be looked after much. I'm just grateful there's a few pubs around who'll put up with us and turn the canned music off for the one night we're there.
I know, Will, I just wanted to clarify the characterization of what a typical host might be responsible for. I know that when it's my turn I don't try to be the center of attention, but rather, I spend a good deal of time making sure the more timid amongst us get a chance to start a few tunes too. But I do take the opportunity as host to play some of the more recently learned tunes I enjoy that I wouldn't impose on someone else's session. When I'm at other people's sessions I like to hear what they've been working on.
I realize that, Ben, and there are still a few host-less sessions that spring up here and there, but they're usually temporary. The publican at our local loves trad and supports the session simply because he wants to be able to enjoy it when he's in his pub. Is there a crime in taking steps to ensure that happens?
I don't want to be a session leader either--don't feel qualified, really--but I wanted to have a session closer to my home, and nobody else was volunteering, so I got stuck with it.
We do the "circle of death" at my little session because I take the coward's way out--it's an easy way to encourage the timid, and keep the other sort from dominating the session. (That is, if the other sort should ever appear. So far, we are all pretty timid!)
My onetime favorite session (R.I.P.) was the opposite, with a definite leader and an inner circle that played tunes for themselves. And threw us dogsbodies a bone, once in a while. Eventually, after I consistently showed up and behaved myself for a long time, I was occasionally invited to start a set of tunes.
Maybe, after I have learned another couple hundred tunes, and a few other things about Irish music besides, I will move away from the "circle of death" approach. But most of the time, at our little session (three of us, last time), it really amounts to the same thing as the more informal "tossing tunes back and forth." As a "session leader" I am more of the "liaison with venue management" type--which I don't enjoy much, but in our case is necessary.
Mickray, your "onetime favorite session" sounds typical to most of the sessions at our local. There are one or two that are less so, but there's usually a core driving and everyone else is along for the ride.
Since the labels of session leader, anchor, host, etc., are somewhat vague, and the rules (if there are any) of the game are made up by the participants, maybe it would be more helpful to talk about the different roles people tend to assume at sessions, and their subsequent behaviors.
Other folks in my circle seem to think of me as the session anchor because I've been playing this music longer than anyone else there, I know more tunes, and I show up every week. Also, I was one of the original catalysts for starting our local session.
But none of that makes me a "leader" or "host," at least not in my mind.
That said, I recognize that I bring certain abilities and knowledge to the session, and that enables me to help other players enjoy the whole thing a lot more than they otherwise might. For example, because I can play almost every single tune in everyone else's repertoire, I can string sets together that keep everyone playing. I tend to know which tunes are people's favorites, and I'll play at a tempo I know they can handle (or once in a while, nudge them up a hair to expand their comfort zone).
I think sessions are more fun the more people you have in the circle who think this way--considering the tunes, abilities, and preferences of their session mates, rather than just what they themselves want to play. But this role often falls to just one or two people, and that's okay, too. Better one than none.
P.S. And when one person sets the example, others tend to follow suit. So our session thrives because people eagerly learn each others tunes, they ask others to start sets, etc.
I would say that our sessions here are not so much beginner sessions as they are intermediate sessions that are inviting and nurturing to beginners. We have several very advanced players (madfluter, Guidonero, Sean C., Tristan, Marilyn, and more), that prefer to come to our little gatherings because of that.
I have been to sessions of all types as mentioned above...friends just getting together, sessions with 20+ players, house sessions, semi-performances, sessions with dancers, two people sessions, sessions raided by the clueless, and more. I again put forth that there is the need for flexible leadership. Not only is it common that style of guidance changes from week to week even at the same session, but it oftens requires adjustment as the night progresses.
Sessions seem to die of a variety of diseases. It is obvious that a major cause is lack of leadership.
The need for leadership, guidance, anchors, whatever you call them, is so apparent to me that it is inconcievable that anyone with even a little experience with session would not accept the notion.
I know some folks who also recoil at the thought that a session should be anything but a free-for-all. It seems that those, most of the time, are the ones one may wish would go away.
I like almost everything ion those last two posts of yours, Will. I just wanted to clarify one point: "I can play almost every single tune in everyone else's repertoire" - I'm assuming you mean in your own particular session, do you?
So Benhall, in a session that's run the way you're advocating, who gets to deal with the pesky player who tends to run roughshod over others?
I'm talking about the guy who calls more than his fair share of tunes, or tries to get his way through bullying and intimidation, or refuses to play a tune the way the person who called it is playing it and takes it off into another version altogether.
I've seen all those things happen. If it keeps happening, the other players stop coming back. When I was the nominal leader of a session, I got to have that little chat about session etiquitte more than once. I didn't like doing it but I'd rather try to improve a situation than have the session go down because of an ill-mannered player. So I'm just wondering how it gets handled at the sessions you're talking about.
Doesn't the answer to your question really depend on what kind of session it is? Is it geared towards beginners, who might appreciate (and perhaps need) a little added structure? Or is it for accomplished and experienced players who are more than capable of making it through the tunes and want the experience of playing together with the freedom to go where inspiration leads them?
Oh, and mickray, I just looked up your bio. I see we share a history as players of electric violin in rock bands. I was in the first band of Green (of Scritti Politti fame) and was also in a band called 'Norman's Fabulous Cousins', which prided itself on being the Number 1 band in Aberdare. The Stereophonics have formed since those days ...
{I also played with the cousin of Liquorice, of The Incredible String Band. But that had nothing to do with music. )
Snakefingers, all those things have happened, and continue to happen from time to time at the sessions I go to. At my local ones, it doesn't get handled at all. I like it that way. It evens itself out over time. If there was a particularly persistent session-wrecker, I think we'd just go elsewhere.
The beginners's session point is really one for an entirely different thread, which, I might add, we've had here - at great length - in the past. Personally I don't like them - I'd rather try (at least, try) to welcome beginners to the session - but, if you're going to have separate beginners' sessions, then fine. But they're not what I would refer to as a 'session'. In other words, you can do what you like in those - it doesn't bother me. But anything that pretends to be an 'open' session, and yet has leaders ... hmm, not my cup of tea (with the one exception that I mentioned a long while back, hosted by a great musician and someone who's a member here).
LOL, Ben, yes, nearly all the tunes among the players at my two local sessions. A community of about two dozen musicians in total. Within a season of sessioning, we run through somewhere in the neighborhood of 600 or more tunes.
I also keep learning tunes from other sessions in our region and introduce those to my local sesshes so we have more in common when we get together with those folks or they visit us. The other core players at my local also regularly bring new tunes to the group--and two of them just returned from 3 weeks in Ireland with heads full of fresh tunes. On it goes.
We played four times this week--two sessions, then a gig doing dinner music at one of the better restaurants in town (normally a jazz club, but the owners enjoy Irish music), and then last night a 4 hour ceili fundraiser for one of the local step dancing schools. Two of their dancers are going to nationals this year, and the event raised some much-needed cash to help defray their expenses.
Hey Ben, Robin Williamson's cousin was best man at my wedding so I feel we're, like, bonding, in some mysterious way here. Also, I like liquorice drops. Spooky.
Most sessions round Aberdeen, which is "not many" these days, are leaderless,rudderless, whatever. They're often like geoffwright says - a few folk who play a few tunes but sit round and gossip mostly, and then most often a crowd of musicians will come in and it becomes a session. Quite congenial and the shape of it is never predictable. I really think it makes a world of difference if the musicians consist of a core of people who frequent that pub anyway and are happy to socialise over a few pints even if they're not playing that night.
But this is a place with many trad musicians, most of whom like a drink and aren't too far from the pub. It's no big deal if they come in one night and nothing much is happening. I could see how it would be different where people have to travel especially for the session and so there is a more heightened expectation that something predictable will be happening
Just got back from the session in question, had a great time. Just a few other folks I've played with for years. Messed with new tunes, put in work with the regulars and revisited old treasures. Much happiness ensued. Peace to you all.
As an alternative to "leader", "anchor", "host", what about "Father" (or "Mother") of the session - someone who has been around in that session for longest, has the most experience, attends regularly, is generally respected, looked to for advice, etc?
After the local session here almost died a few times due to lack of a "host, hostess, anchor, leader", or whatever term you prefer to use, four of the regulars signed a contract with a local restaurant agreeing to be there on the last Saturday of each month to host a session. The four people who signed the contract are two husband-and-wife musical teams. They are a woman who plays flute and hammer dulcimer and her husband (who plays bodhran). The other couple is a man who plays fiddle and his wife who plays guitar and bodhran. All four of them can also sing.
I have enjoyed accompanying them on my genuine imitation piano (an electronic keyboard). Yes, these four people did make a point of inviting me to join them at their monthly sessions.
I know this wouldn't work for everybody but this is what finally had to be done here to insure that there would be at least one session a month.
I've been to many different sessions that range from one extreme -- very strong leader who starts most tunes or who goes around the circle asking each person to start a set -- to the other -- leaderless anarchy. And everything in between. Both work and none of them work, depending on who is playing that night. I've been at great leaderless sessions (which usually involve one or two strong players essentially becoming de fact leaders). I've also been at lousy ones where no one felt comfortable starting sets or where all the eedjits jumped in and were aggressive tune starters while the good players shyly hung back. I've also been at brilliant lead sessions. At the same time, I've been at lousy ones as well. Depends on who is leading it and who walks into the pub that night and how the leaders handle challenging situations and drunken eedjits.
Hosts - who needs 'em?
Hosts - who needs 'em?
As I've just said in another thread, I just don't see the need for session 'hosts'. Maybe this harks back to the anarchy thread we had recently. I don't want to be lead by a 'session leader'. I don't want to lead sessions either. I just want to turn up somewhere, half planned in a half-arsed sort of a way, and swap a bunch of tunes with some mates.
So, what if I'm travelling? Strangers are just friends you haven't met yet. [picture smiley throwing up in airplane sick bag]
# Posted on April 12th 2008 by benhall.1
Re: Hosts - who needs 'em?
benhall, you're too quick for me. Here's what said, on that other thread:
A minor quibble, but to me:
Session "host" is the owner of the venue--the guy who lets you play in his room, and maybe gives you a beer on the house.
Session "leader" is the person responsible for communicating with the host about the session, and making sure the session stays in good standing with the host
By my definition, there has to be a host--and the host must be kept happy, if he is to keep hosting your session. I think it's important to remember that.
"Leader" is another matter--fire away, everybody. ;>}
# Posted on April 12th 2008 by mickray
Re: Hosts - who needs 'em?
Since 'hosts' and 'leaders', and the very concept of them, really wind me up, I've started a new thread on that topic.
http://www.thesession.org/discussions/display/17374/comments#comment361797
# Posted on April 12th 2008 by benhall.1
Re: Hosts - who needs 'em?
Er ... I put that on the wrong thread didn't I?
Told you I was wound up!
# Posted on April 12th 2008 by benhall.1
Re: Hosts - who needs 'em?
And let it be known across the land that a female host would gain the title of "hostess"
But try not to let it advance your aesthetic understanding.
With all aloof, paradoxical assurance replies, try not to think of it in terms of right and wrong. Hosts/Hostess can be a guide. They will help you find your path.
ehem.
# Posted on April 12th 2008 by Bodhi
Re: Hosts - who needs 'em?
Of course, my good Sir. I didn't mean to leave the ladies out of it--just trying to keep the word count down, and the grammar consistent.
# Posted on April 12th 2008 by mickray
Re: Hosts - who needs 'em?
Wrong thread? Could there really be a "right" or "wrong"?
# Posted on April 12th 2008 by feardearg
Re: Hosts - who needs 'em?
Sad fact of life: The Other Golden Rule. (The person with the gold gets to make the rules.)
# Posted on April 12th 2008 by mickray
Re: Hosts - who needs 'em?
BenHall.1, are you saying that a "leader" is never needed in any circumstance that you can imagine?
# Posted on April 12th 2008 by feardearg
Re: Hosts - who needs 'em?
Ah! I see you're getting into the anarchistic spirit, feardearg!
And the answer is ... well, of course there's no bloody answer.
Hey c'mon, folks! Back to the question. Hosts, leaders, whatever the heck it is folks call 'em, why do we need 'em?
PB mentioned one possible reason on that other thread - 'cos the publican wants a session. That happens round here, too. There's lots of sessions round here, relatively speaking. But the ones where the pub books someone to organise it, as opposed to us session-type chasps (and chaspesses, to appease Sir D) going cap in hand to a pub we want to play in, mostly fail.
D'y'know, it's really hard to understand that last sentence of mine, isn't it? Who cares? I can make language mean what I want it to mean. So there.
# Posted on April 12th 2008 by benhall.1
Re: Hosts - who needs 'em?
Cross-post. My post was in response to your post about 'right or wrong, feardearg.
Right, to answer your next one (hopefully before you can reply with your speedy wit and ready keyboard
): I mentioned one reason in my last post, which had been previously mentioned by PB. It doesn't work well over here at any rate ...
But, wherever there are, in a given area, a few musicians who fancy a few tunes every now and then, I cannot see any need for a 'leader'. For the most part, it's only going to wind people up (especially me).
# Posted on April 12th 2008 by benhall.1
Re: Hosts - who needs 'em?
I would say that most times you don't need leaders because the "concept" is the guide and leader. Friendship is the guiding principle.
But there are some situations where one longs for a strong leader. Sometimes the clueless will show up and need extra guidance, either in the way of correction, escorting out the door, instruction, physical restraint, etc...It makes it easier when there is a leader...someone who can act in the name of the group and its welfare.
# Posted on April 12th 2008 by feardearg
Re: Hosts - who needs 'em?
BenH.1. You are really confusing me.
# Posted on April 12th 2008 by feardearg
Re: Hosts - who needs 'em?
Sorry, feardearg. I really don't mean to.
Anyway, I'm serious about this. You hear it all the time on this site: situations get resolved 'because the session leader sorts it out'; 'the session leader's job is to [insert almost anything you can think of eg make sure there's always tunes being played]'.
But they're just not necessary. If you didn't have session leaders, there would still be sessions. Because musicians who like sessions can't live without them. And they'd be better sessions. Without 'session leaders' being employed by a pub to organise a session, they'd be in the pubs that the musicians would like to go to; without 'session leaders' deciding which tunes to play and when, the musicians will end up playing the tunes *they* want to, and they won't be beholden to anybody - they can always find another pub.
Of course, there may not be free drinks without pubs paying session leaders to organise sessions and all the crap that goes with it. But if people are really saying they'll only go out to a session if there are free drinks, I think it's pretty forced anyway.
# Posted on April 12th 2008 by benhall.1
Re: Hosts - who needs 'em?
Your point about the clueless, feardearg. Yes, sadly they do show up - too often. But not every time. Which means that some sessions are decent, and it's worth going to the rest for the ones that are good. You never know what's going to happen on the night.
And I don't think having a 'leader' really works in those situations - the situation is going to be awkward anyway.
# Posted on April 12th 2008 by benhall.1
Re: Hosts - who needs 'em?
"Excuse me, Mr/Mrs/Miss/Ms pub owner, we know you are trying to run a business here--but a few/several/dozens of us would like to come here and play tunes/make noise for hours on end, whether your paying customers like it or not. Of course you have no objections, right? And if you do, don't bother telling any of us, because we have decided that no one is going to speak for us. We don't believe in rules."
Now, what right-thinking pub owner could possibly disagree with that? ;>}
# Posted on April 13th 2008 by mickray
Re: Hosts - who needs 'em?
You seem to have had some negative experiences. I can't imagine a session leader dictating what tunes and when. I wouldn't go to that kind of session, either.
# Posted on April 13th 2008 by feardearg
Re: Hosts - who needs 'em?
I don't think I'm revealing a completely irrelevant secret when I mention that Ben, when wearing his other hat, leads a chamber orchestra
# Posted on April 13th 2008 by lazyhound
Re: Hosts - who needs 'em?
Decision making can stress the neural circuitry involving the amygdala and hippocampus — is thought to underlie anxiety.
When confronted by a host with unpleasant and potentially harmful stimuli such as foul odors or tastes, PET-scans show increased bloodflow in the amygdala.
This might suggest that anxiety is a protective mechanism designed to prevent the organism from engaging in potentially harmful behaviors.
Unless the host (or hostess,) (( or the peoples front of judea))
contracts a virus.
Get thee to a nunnery.
Wikipedia is my friend.
# Posted on April 13th 2008 by Bodhi
Re: Hosts - who needs 'em?
"nunnery" in the sense that Shakespeare had in mind?
# Posted on April 13th 2008 by lazyhound
Re: Hosts - who needs 'em?
aye
# Posted on April 13th 2008 by Bodhi
Re: Hosts - who needs 'em?
Around here, and I'm guessing elsewhere, if you want to keep a session alive for more than a few months, you need at least two people who will, come h*ll or high water, either be there every week or can replace themselves. Call them hosts, anchors, leaders, whatever, but I've found that that steady committment to showing up every week is appreciated by the owners of the venues we play in.
# Posted on April 13th 2008 by Michael Eskin
Re: Hosts - who needs 'em?
That's certainly true with some sessions where I live.
# Posted on April 13th 2008 by lazyhound
Re: Hosts - who needs 'em?
mickray and Michael Eskin seem to have answered the question quite clearly.
# Posted on April 13th 2008 by oldstrings
Re: Hosts - who needs 'em?
Host are the people who let you play in their space - whether its a pub or someone's kitchen. As for session leaders - I don't know. I think someone needs to be on point to show up and be ready to provide some tunes for the time that the host wants/has invited the tunes. I don't particulary like the "circle of death" as mickray calls it, but in my case, I put up with it because I am not a regular at the session. This works in one of the venues that mickray talks about and that is fine with me (I show up there every once in a while). If I were to become a regular, I might suggest a different idea, but I hesitate to do that because I don't want to be a session leader. My favorite sessions are the ones where there are regulars who know each other and their tunes, welcome visitors and the odd "known"player who only shows up once in a while, and everyone has a great time playing whatever string of tunes strikes them at the moment, and we all keep doing it until its time to leave. But, I do recognize that someone needs to arrange all this with the host and I give thanks to the person who does that because it gives me a place to go on a particular day/night if I have the time to play tunes.
# Posted on April 13th 2008 by John Culhane
Re: Hosts - who needs 'em?
Ya!
Who needs leaders! Everyman for himself! Lets remove the president, government, teachers and all.
(Woman, children,transgenders not excluded)...
Hey wait... remember that thread about fights breaking out/after sessions? Did they have leader? I bet they didn't!!!
Don't this post seriously.
# Posted on April 13th 2008 by madfluter
Re: Hosts - who needs 'em?
Hey madfluter. Good to see you here.
Different sessions, in fact, different nights of the same session, call for flexibility in leadership and approaches. Depends who or what shows up.
If principles of ettiquete or courtesy don't rule, than someone has to contribute guidance in one form or another.
# Posted on April 13th 2008 by feardearg
Re: Hosts - who needs 'em?
Yes, we need leaders, there are some sessions that would not happen if leaders were not there (and paid) every week. Some of the better players would not be accessable if not for this. A local session has started up within walking distance of my house where I have lived for 9 years with great players that I have never played with before. These led sessions give access to the pro players that we would not otherwise have, it is sad that they do not come out otherwise but there is not getting around that. There is also another session 1/2 hour drive away that I would not go to if the leader were not tied to it. I know that the music should be free brigade will disagree but I would not be going to these places if those people were not there.
# Posted on April 13th 2008 by tlittlewazzock
Re: Hosts - who needs 'em?
Like most things, it depends on the quality of the leaders. Some sessions have required great skills in not letting some players hog the evening, making sure competent but shyer players don't get left out, stopping enthusiastic but less skilled players from trampling over the session, getting the session going and starting sets when there is a lull and. of course, acting as PR officer betweens hosts, other pub users and musicians!!
# Posted on April 13th 2008 by Tarrantella
Re: Hosts - who needs 'em?
John Culhane wrote: "My favorite sessions are the ones where there are regulars who know each other and their tunes, welcome visitors and the odd "known"player who only shows up once in a while, and everyone has a great time playing whatever string of tunes strikes them at the moment, and we all keep doing it until its time to leave."
This pretty well describes how our sessions work. Some people call me the session leader, but really all I am is the go-between with the publican to keep them happy and things running smoothly. And sometimes other people play that role, too.
So our sessions work without a leader because we're all friends, we've played together a long time, and no one is trying to be the center of attention.
# Posted on April 13th 2008 by Will CPT
Re: Hosts - who needs 'em?
I was going to quote that comment from John Culhane as well. It's *exactly* what I'm talking about. And tarantella's comment above is *exactly* what I'm complaining about. If that's how it's run, I for one won't be there.
Liaison with the pub? All you need is for someone - doesn't matter who - to phone out of courtesy, if you're going to a pub that you haven't been to before or that you go to irregularly. It's no big deal. And I'd rather be in a pub that tolerates us, rather than one that is gagging for an Irish session and is therefore going to have its own expectations.
Meanwhile, Gavin, where are those fantastic sessions with all these wonderful pros eh? Gimme gimme gimme!
[pant pant]
# Posted on April 13th 2008 by benhall.1
Re: Hosts - who needs 'em?
"What I like about a session is that you sit down with friends and see what will happen, let the mind associate freely and see what tunes you think of. In some situations an instinctive system of seniority will kick in but more often things are free flowing. Sessions with 'session lists' and 'leaders' seem regimented to the extreme and to be avoided."
Posted by Kilfarboy on the Chicago sessions thread.
Man after my own heart.
(Thanks for the whistle instruction, too, kilfar (I assume it's you?) - I'm learning a lot.)
# Posted on April 13th 2008 by benhall.1
Re: Hosts - who needs 'em?
Ben, you don't want led sessions, then ask where they are? Hypocrite.
http://www.thesession.org/sessions/display/1933
http://www.thesession.org/sessions/display/1171
# Posted on April 13th 2008 by tlittlewazzock
Re: Hosts - who needs 'em?
Will writes: "So our sessions work without a leader because we're all friends, we've played together a long time, and no one is trying to be the center of attention."
I don't think session hosts are trying to be the "center of attention." Sometimes they're just custodians who show up on time and arrange the tables and chairs and will be there on the nights when others happen to stay home. Hosts are people who are capable of playing tunes and making good music even if no one else happens to show up. Sometimes they function as placeholders so that any given session doesn't fade into oblivion as a result of a temporary lag in interest. The session hosts are the people you know will at least be there after you’ve made the effort to leave the comfort of your home, drive to the pub and find parking. I’ve seen many a host-less session fade from existence, not because they weren’t good sessions, but rather just because there were no hosts to guarantee their survival.
# Posted on April 13th 2008 by Phantom Button
Re: Hosts - who needs 'em?
Why thank you, Gavin!
# Posted on April 13th 2008 by benhall.1
Re: Hosts - who needs 'em?
I liked the bit about someone shouting the beer
# Posted on April 13th 2008 by mcknowall
Re: Hosts - who needs 'em?
...and I've tried to be here to help explain it, every time you've complained, ben my man.
If you have someone who dictates what will be played, who will play it, when it will be played, what will happen next, and needs to be called the session leader, then that's not a leader, it's a freaking tyrant. Or, it's the leader of a band at a gig. Do these exist in a session environment? If they do, it's not a session anymore, it's a gig.
I think what you normally have is what Phantom Button and Will explained very well already. At least, that's the de facto role I've been told I'm fulfilling for our session. I didn't look for it, didn't want it, but there it is, because I'm the one who arranged it with the pub owner, I'm the one who's there every week no matter what, and I'm the one everyone asks questions of. I also print those set lists every week personalized for each person listing all the tunes we'll be playing and in what order over the course of the evening. [/sarcasm]
Oh yeah, and the 47 millionth time, feardearg runs BEGINNERS' sessions. [bangs head on table repeatedly]
# Posted on April 13th 2008 by SWFL Fiddler
Re: Hosts - who needs 'em?
I think you're answering me on the wrong thread - nobody's mentioned feardearg's essions on this thread have they? Ah, that'll be because you head a splode, I presume?
Meanwhile, I get what Will's saying fine. I start to get jumpy with what PB or yourself are saying here, SWFL. 'arranged it with the pub owner' - what's to arrange? One phone call "Is it OK for a bunch of us to turn up and play a few tunes?" does it fine. "I'm the one everyone asks questions of" What's there to ask? You turn up, you play tunes, you go home.
Now, I wonder if you could just a splain those lists for me one more time?
# Posted on April 13th 2008 by benhall.1
Re: Hosts - who needs 'em?
I can think of only two circumstances in a session (not a paid gig or playing for dancers) where a tune list would be needed.
The first is if it a beginners' session where, by definition, they need all the help they can get.
The second is if it is a legal requirement, as it is in a few countries (Italy, I believe, being one of them). That would be a source of amusement in some of the sessions I go to, where a significant number of players don't really know the names of most of the tunes ("now was that the Silver Spear or the Silver Spire?") - they just play 'em. If it ever came to pass in the UK I can imagine a fair bit of inventive ingenuity coming into play - like having only the Irish names of the tunes on the list.
# Posted on April 13th 2008 by lazyhound
Re: Hosts - who needs 'em?
In retrospect I feel like the "It's a cookbook!" guy, sorry about that. "It's a beginner's session!" hence the lists, I guess? Teachers, students, etc? [shrug]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f1qjNHO0Aks&feature=related
What's to arrange? You're blessed with living in an area rich with the music, apparently. Things are much different in other places. I don't do anything, except I go to the pub owners and ask to play there. Negotiate what days, act as the go between. I didn't seek these roles, but if they didn't get done, they wouldn't get done, and there'd be no session. Pub owners here are not like they are there. I don't lead anyone at the session or at any time, really, we're all grown adults and friends. We come from all over, some drive an hour or two, and there's a weekly email to say hi and let people know it's on, and who's confirmed for coming out that week. I get questions if the email is not on time. People slagging, calling me a slacker. Wanting to know if there's a session on this week or what. Exciting stuff, eh?
# Posted on April 13th 2008 by SWFL Fiddler
Re: Hosts - who needs 'em?
Yeah, we get someone who voluntarily does the weekly e-mail. And a valuable service it is. But it's just an e-mail, for goodness' sake. In your situation, rather you than me, SWFL, particularly if you're getting grief over it. I don't know how you put up with it.
# Posted on April 13th 2008 by benhall.1
Re: Hosts - who needs 'em?
I prefer the term 'Anchor Man' rather than Session Leader, which to my mind sounds too regimental. The Anchor Man is the person that always turns up and gets the session going Sometimes gets a few shillings as well from 'Mine Host' On occasions I've known the Anchor Man to play a few tunes and then let the others in the session get on with it while he has a long chat and a few jars with various people, or even nipping out for a smoke for long periods. He still got paid at the end of the night. That's taking the p in my book.
# Posted on April 13th 2008 by Free Reed
Re: Hosts - who needs 'em?
Well, SWFL, I've just spent the better part of two hours, downloading and watching 'To Serve Man' ... and I STILL don't know why you need lists.
tee hee
# Posted on April 13th 2008 by benhall.1
Re: Hosts - who needs 'em?
That's what we call them here as well, anchors...
# Posted on April 13th 2008 by Michael Eskin
Re: Hosts - who needs 'em?
Yeah. I've heard 'em called something similar ...
# Posted on April 13th 2008 by benhall.1
Re: Hosts - who needs 'em?
I occasionally frequent a couple of "rudderless" sessions that drift along without a leader - the regulars are beginner to intermediate standard and if no leaders turn up, I guess they are happy to play their 3 tunes then sit and gossip all night. If leaders do turn up, they still sit and gossip as the standard is either very poor (no leaders) or out of their league (flash players turn up).
I prefer to be a roving host a.k.a session hijacker.
# Posted on April 13th 2008 by geoffwright
Re: Hosts - who needs 'em?
Jack, I didn't make myself clear. I didn't mean to imply that the session anchor (or leader or host, whatever) wanted to be the center of attention.
More likely, some other player shows up who thinks the session is there just for them. They want to play only their tunes, start most of the sets, play louder than everyone else, and so on. When that happens, a session anchor can help neutralize that clueless player and turn things back to a less ego-centric circle.
# Posted on April 13th 2008 by Will CPT
Re: Hosts - who needs 'em?
Anchors/hosts/leaders... it's all the same, and yes, Ben, you can have sessions without them any time you want. My friends and I had a host-less session that ran for about a year and a half at a great little tavern in North Beach where we were spontaneously plied with drink to encourage us and the locals seemed to love it. The momentum was great considering no one was paid or leading it. But the session fizzled out after a year and a half only to be revived by someone else to last an even shorter amount of time. Currently there's no regular session in that pub and only brief sputters now and then.
The pub where the regular session is, that I go to now, has had sessions since 1975. It started with Joe Cooley and Kevin Keegan and after they were gone ran for a considerable amount of time on their momentum. Around 1988 when the publican realized the regular session at his pub was dwindling down and another was starting to take root in a pub down the street, he hired myself and a couple of friends to arrange a session at his pub. (He did it because he truly loves trad.) It worked, and the session has again taken root in his pub and expanded to being on two nights each week with rotating hosts/anchors. Had he not taken this action there might not be any regular session there today. When all the other pubs with sessions changed hands or realized there isn’t much profit in sessions the other sessions eventually died out. The session at this pub has persevered because of the publican’s support and the hiring of hosts/anchors.
# Posted on April 13th 2008 by Phantom Button
Re: Hosts - who needs 'em?
There you go! He hired you because there was another one taking root down the street. So, no shortage of venues, or, apparently, of musicians wanting to play.
I just think it gives a better result for musicians if they turn up where and when *they* want to and are not beholden to someone who has hired them to be there.
And no, there's no profit in sessions (with some exceptions in Ireland and perhaps other parts of the world). That's why I don't expect free drinks or to be looked after much. I'm just grateful there's a few pubs around who'll put up with us and turn the canned music off for the one night we're there.
# Posted on April 13th 2008 by benhall.1
Re: Hosts - who needs 'em?
I know, Will, I just wanted to clarify the characterization of what a typical host might be responsible for. I know that when it's my turn I don't try to be the center of attention, but rather, I spend a good deal of time making sure the more timid amongst us get a chance to start a few tunes too. But I do take the opportunity as host to play some of the more recently learned tunes I enjoy that I wouldn't impose on someone else's session. When I'm at other people's sessions I like to hear what they've been working on.
# Posted on April 13th 2008 by Phantom Button
Re: Hosts - who needs 'em?
I realize that, Ben, and there are still a few host-less sessions that spring up here and there, but they're usually temporary. The publican at our local loves trad and supports the session simply because he wants to be able to enjoy it when he's in his pub. Is there a crime in taking steps to ensure that happens?
# Posted on April 13th 2008 by Phantom Button
Re: Hosts - who needs 'em?
I don't want to be a session leader either--don't feel qualified, really--but I wanted to have a session closer to my home, and nobody else was volunteering, so I got stuck with it.
We do the "circle of death" at my little session because I take the coward's way out--it's an easy way to encourage the timid, and keep the other sort from dominating the session. (That is, if the other sort should ever appear. So far, we are all pretty timid!)
My onetime favorite session (R.I.P.) was the opposite, with a definite leader and an inner circle that played tunes for themselves. And threw us dogsbodies a bone, once in a while. Eventually, after I consistently showed up and behaved myself for a long time, I was occasionally invited to start a set of tunes.
Maybe, after I have learned another couple hundred tunes, and a few other things about Irish music besides, I will move away from the "circle of death" approach. But most of the time, at our little session (three of us, last time), it really amounts to the same thing as the more informal "tossing tunes back and forth." As a "session leader" I am more of the "liaison with venue management" type--which I don't enjoy much, but in our case is necessary.
# Posted on April 13th 2008 by mickray
Re: Hosts - who needs 'em?
Mickray, your "onetime favorite session" sounds typical to most of the sessions at our local. There are one or two that are less so, but there's usually a core driving and everyone else is along for the ride.
# Posted on April 13th 2008 by Phantom Button
Re: Hosts - who needs 'em?
Since the labels of session leader, anchor, host, etc., are somewhat vague, and the rules (if there are any) of the game are made up by the participants, maybe it would be more helpful to talk about the different roles people tend to assume at sessions, and their subsequent behaviors.
Other folks in my circle seem to think of me as the session anchor because I've been playing this music longer than anyone else there, I know more tunes, and I show up every week. Also, I was one of the original catalysts for starting our local session.
But none of that makes me a "leader" or "host," at least not in my mind.
That said, I recognize that I bring certain abilities and knowledge to the session, and that enables me to help other players enjoy the whole thing a lot more than they otherwise might. For example, because I can play almost every single tune in everyone else's repertoire, I can string sets together that keep everyone playing. I tend to know which tunes are people's favorites, and I'll play at a tempo I know they can handle (or once in a while, nudge them up a hair to expand their comfort zone).
I think sessions are more fun the more people you have in the circle who think this way--considering the tunes, abilities, and preferences of their session mates, rather than just what they themselves want to play. But this role often falls to just one or two people, and that's okay, too. Better one than none.
# Posted on April 13th 2008 by Will CPT
Re: Hosts - who needs 'em?
P.S. And when one person sets the example, others tend to follow suit. So our session thrives because people eagerly learn each others tunes, they ask others to start sets, etc.
# Posted on April 13th 2008 by Will CPT
Re: Hosts - who needs 'em?
I would say that our sessions here are not so much beginner sessions as they are intermediate sessions that are inviting and nurturing to beginners. We have several very advanced players (madfluter, Guidonero, Sean C., Tristan, Marilyn, and more), that prefer to come to our little gatherings because of that.
I have been to sessions of all types as mentioned above...friends just getting together, sessions with 20+ players, house sessions, semi-performances, sessions with dancers, two people sessions, sessions raided by the clueless, and more. I again put forth that there is the need for flexible leadership. Not only is it common that style of guidance changes from week to week even at the same session, but it oftens requires adjustment as the night progresses.
Sessions seem to die of a variety of diseases. It is obvious that a major cause is lack of leadership.
The need for leadership, guidance, anchors, whatever you call them, is so apparent to me that it is inconcievable that anyone with even a little experience with session would not accept the notion.
I know some folks who also recoil at the thought that a session should be anything but a free-for-all. It seems that those, most of the time, are the ones one may wish would go away.
BenHall.1...are you one of those???
# Posted on April 13th 2008 by feardearg
Re: Hosts - who needs 'em?
I like almost everything ion those last two posts of yours, Will. I just wanted to clarify one point: "I can play almost every single tune in everyone else's repertoire" - I'm assuming you mean in your own particular session, do you?
# Posted on April 13th 2008 by benhall.1
Re: Hosts - who needs 'em?
will CPT, you hit the nail right on the head.
# Posted on April 13th 2008 by feardearg
Re: Hosts - who needs 'em?
So Benhall, in a session that's run the way you're advocating, who gets to deal with the pesky player who tends to run roughshod over others?
I'm talking about the guy who calls more than his fair share of tunes, or tries to get his way through bullying and intimidation, or refuses to play a tune the way the person who called it is playing it and takes it off into another version altogether.
I've seen all those things happen. If it keeps happening, the other players stop coming back. When I was the nominal leader of a session, I got to have that little chat about session etiquitte more than once. I didn't like doing it but I'd rather try to improve a situation than have the session go down because of an ill-mannered player. So I'm just wondering how it gets handled at the sessions you're talking about.
Doesn't the answer to your question really depend on what kind of session it is? Is it geared towards beginners, who might appreciate (and perhaps need) a little added structure? Or is it for accomplished and experienced players who are more than capable of making it through the tunes and want the experience of playing together with the freedom to go where inspiration leads them?
# Posted on April 13th 2008 by Snakefingers
Re: Hosts - who needs 'em?
Oh, and mickray, I just looked up your bio. I see we share a history as players of electric violin in rock bands. I was in the first band of Green (of Scritti Politti fame) and was also in a band called 'Norman's Fabulous Cousins', which prided itself on being the Number 1 band in Aberdare. The Stereophonics have formed since those days ...
{I also played with the cousin of Liquorice, of The Incredible String Band. But that had nothing to do with music.
)
# Posted on April 13th 2008 by benhall.1
Re: Hosts - who needs 'em?
Snakefingers, all those things have happened, and continue to happen from time to time at the sessions I go to. At my local ones, it doesn't get handled at all. I like it that way. It evens itself out over time. If there was a particularly persistent session-wrecker, I think we'd just go elsewhere.
The beginners's session point is really one for an entirely different thread, which, I might add, we've had here - at great length - in the past. Personally I don't like them - I'd rather try (at least, try) to welcome beginners to the session - but, if you're going to have separate beginners' sessions, then fine. But they're not what I would refer to as a 'session'. In other words, you can do what you like in those - it doesn't bother me. But anything that pretends to be an 'open' session, and yet has leaders ... hmm, not my cup of tea (with the one exception that I mentioned a long while back, hosted by a great musician and someone who's a member here).
# Posted on April 13th 2008 by benhall.1
Re: Hosts - who needs 'em?
LOL, Ben, yes, nearly all the tunes among the players at my two local sessions. A community of about two dozen musicians in total. Within a season of sessioning, we run through somewhere in the neighborhood of 600 or more tunes.
I also keep learning tunes from other sessions in our region and introduce those to my local sesshes so we have more in common when we get together with those folks or they visit us. The other core players at my local also regularly bring new tunes to the group--and two of them just returned from 3 weeks in Ireland with heads full of fresh tunes. On it goes.
# Posted on April 13th 2008 by Will CPT
Re: Hosts - who needs 'em?
Great, isn't it?
# Posted on April 13th 2008 by benhall.1
Re: Hosts - who needs 'em?
Yay!
# Posted on April 13th 2008 by Will CPT
Re: Hosts - who needs 'em?
We played four times this week--two sessions, then a gig doing dinner music at one of the better restaurants in town (normally a jazz club, but the owners enjoy Irish music), and then last night a 4 hour ceili fundraiser for one of the local step dancing schools. Two of their dancers are going to nationals this year, and the event raised some much-needed cash to help defray their expenses.
Every minute of all of it was an absolute hoot.
# Posted on April 13th 2008 by Will CPT
Re: Hosts - who needs 'em?
Hey Ben, Robin Williamson's cousin was best man at my wedding so I feel we're, like, bonding, in some mysterious way here. Also, I like liquorice drops. Spooky.
Most sessions round Aberdeen, which is "not many" these days, are leaderless,rudderless, whatever. They're often like geoffwright says - a few folk who play a few tunes but sit round and gossip mostly, and then most often a crowd of musicians will come in and it becomes a session. Quite congenial and the shape of it is never predictable. I really think it makes a world of difference if the musicians consist of a core of people who frequent that pub anyway and are happy to socialise over a few pints even if they're not playing that night.
But this is a place with many trad musicians, most of whom like a drink and aren't too far from the pub. It's no big deal if they come in one night and nothing much is happening. I could see how it would be different where people have to travel especially for the session and so there is a more heightened expectation that something predictable will be happening
# Posted on April 14th 2008 by Bren
Re: Hosts - who needs 'em?
By which I don't mean that the music is predictable, but the situation will be ....
# Posted on April 14th 2008 by Bren
Re: Hosts - who needs 'em?
(...and now for something completely different.)
"...a cookbook! A COOKBOOK!!!"
Love that episode. Isn't that a great one?
Just got back from the session in question, had a great time. Just a few other folks I've played with for years. Messed with new tunes, put in work with the regulars and revisited old treasures. Much happiness ensued. Peace to you all.
# Posted on April 14th 2008 by SWFL Fiddler
Re: Hosts - who needs 'em?
As an alternative to "leader", "anchor", "host", what about "Father" (or "Mother") of the session - someone who has been around in that session for longest, has the most experience, attends regularly, is generally respected, looked to for advice, etc?
# Posted on April 14th 2008 by lazyhound
Re: Hosts - who needs 'em?
After the local session here almost died a few times due to lack of a "host, hostess, anchor, leader", or whatever term you prefer to use, four of the regulars signed a contract with a local restaurant agreeing to be there on the last Saturday of each month to host a session. The four people who signed the contract are two husband-and-wife musical teams. They are a woman who plays flute and hammer dulcimer and her husband (who plays bodhran). The other couple is a man who plays fiddle and his wife who plays guitar and bodhran. All four of them can also sing.
I have enjoyed accompanying them on my genuine imitation piano (an electronic keyboard). Yes, these four people did make a point of inviting me to join them at their monthly sessions.
I know this wouldn't work for everybody but this is what finally had to be done here to insure that there would be at least one session a month.
# Posted on April 14th 2008 by fauxcelt
Re: Hosts - who needs 'em?
"Father of the session"
Like yourself, Trevor?
# Posted on April 14th 2008 by benhall.1
Re: Hosts - who needs 'em?
very good point, fauxcelt.
# Posted on April 14th 2008 by dickens metrognome
Re: Hosts - who needs 'em?
I've been to many different sessions that range from one extreme -- very strong leader who starts most tunes or who goes around the circle asking each person to start a set -- to the other -- leaderless anarchy. And everything in between. Both work and none of them work, depending on who is playing that night. I've been at great leaderless sessions (which usually involve one or two strong players essentially becoming de fact leaders). I've also been at lousy ones where no one felt comfortable starting sets or where all the eedjits jumped in and were aggressive tune starters while the good players shyly hung back. I've also been at brilliant lead sessions. At the same time, I've been at lousy ones as well. Depends on who is leading it and who walks into the pub that night and how the leaders handle challenging situations and drunken eedjits.
# Posted on April 14th 2008 by TheSilverSpear
Re: Hosts - who needs 'em?
Thank you Dickens
# Posted on April 16th 2008 by fauxcelt