Darn it, just when I need the good old Banjo Hangout, it goes off to change server!
Calling all Banjo experts!
I'm fitting a new renaissance head to my S. S. Stewart today, & I was looking for a few tips on how best to fit the head, or should I say, how to know when to stop tightening the nuts.
I'm doing the old trick of working my way round in two directions, always tightening opposite nuts, but I'm darned if I know when I should stop. I have of course done this a couple of times before, but always just went with my gut feeling .... & my fingers crossed!
Dick, you can buy a drum tensioner--a gizmo that measures how tight the head is. Not a bad way to go if you're a stickler about getting the same exact set up every time.
But I've tightened banjo heads by ear and feel for decades and never broke one (yet). I like the head really tight, but even with that preference, there is such a thing as "too tight"--where the tension is squelching (rather than improving) tone and volume. Usually, that's well before a sound head will break.
I've got a ren head on my Orpheum right now, and it's really tight--no visible deflection of the head around the bridge feet. Yet I can still push on the middle of the head and get a little bit of give. Pluck a string and you can hear the pitch go flat when you do that. I'm sure I could tighten it further, but the tone would go muffly.
If you're tuned to GDAE, find a tension that seems to best support the open D string overtones. There you go.
on my cheapie Korean banjo, the threads on the screws start stripping when you try to go too far.
I haven't been able to tear the head - the threads always jump first
Yeah, I saw those tensioner gizmos on Elderly, but I wouldn't be using it often enough to justify the expense. Now if I was drummer .................
This is a Renaissance Head & yes, I have fitted a couple before, but I've never yet had once Implode.
Mark, I did see a Fiddle explode at a session one night, when, in the middle of a set of fast reels, someone's old tailgut just snapped! The guy's face was a treat.
My general philosophy is to tighten it up with strings on it until it's "really bright and ringy", and then back each one off about a third of a turn.
It's difficult to hear what it really sounds like when you're tightening it up because you're hearing the whole spectrum, and the changes are gradual. But I've found that what my ear finds pleasing in brightness is a bit over the top, and backing it off a bit is good.
I also have a pretty good feeling about how much I should be able to bend a note by pushing the head by the bridge with my fingers.
I also know of people that "tap tune", to get a specific note (usually G sharp, if I remember correctly, because that is a place where the head is not likely to get a bad resonant vibration going), but that seems a little over the top to me
I put a ren. head on an old vega and got it right the first try just by tweaking as i went, had strings on so i could plunk once in a while. Didn't seem to be rocket science, thank God. Or maybe I should leave her out of it, it being a banjo question. Don
Thanks Reverend. The fact is, I have the skin on now & it is working fine. Interestingly enough though, I had her on & tightened up to my satisfaction { em, that's the Banjo Head I'm talking about Fiddlebabe! } before I read your reply, but out of curiousity, I tapped the head & guess what? ..... yup ~ it's G#
Aye, I know Dont, it's not rocket science, but those who do things on a regular basis, usually have a set of useful guide lines they work to, which are often very good to know. In any case, I was just curious to know if there were any standard tips which could help ensure a good fit. { ... of the Banjo Head, Fiddlebabe! } ........... what's a girly doing on a "Garden Shed" thread anyway?
Yeah I know that one UK, wasn't it Earl Scruggs who said that first?
"Tighten the head until it breaks ...... and then back off just a little bit."
Aye Greg, it certainly didn't grab any Oscars, but it's an amusing little ditty.
How do you know when to stop?
How do you know when to stop?
Darn it, just when I need the good old Banjo Hangout, it goes off to change server!
Calling all Banjo experts!
I'm fitting a new renaissance head to my S. S. Stewart today, & I was looking for a few tips on how best to fit the head, or should I say, how to know when to stop tightening the nuts.
I'm doing the old trick of working my way round in two directions, always tightening opposite nuts, but I'm darned if I know when I should stop. I have of course done this a couple of times before, but always just went with my gut feeling .... & my fingers crossed!
So, anyone out there got any useful tips?
Cheers
Dick
# Posted on April 6th 2008 by Ptarmigan
Re: How do you know when to stop?
Do they implode or something? I often wonder that when tuning my harp...
# Posted on April 6th 2008 by Mark Harmer
Re: How do you know when to stop?
Dick, you can buy a drum tensioner--a gizmo that measures how tight the head is. Not a bad way to go if you're a stickler about getting the same exact set up every time.
But I've tightened banjo heads by ear and feel for decades and never broke one (yet). I like the head really tight, but even with that preference, there is such a thing as "too tight"--where the tension is squelching (rather than improving) tone and volume. Usually, that's well before a sound head will break.
I've got a ren head on my Orpheum right now, and it's really tight--no visible deflection of the head around the bridge feet. Yet I can still push on the middle of the head and get a little bit of give. Pluck a string and you can hear the pitch go flat when you do that. I'm sure I could tighten it further, but the tone would go muffly.
If you're tuned to GDAE, find a tension that seems to best support the open D string overtones. There you go.
# Posted on April 6th 2008 by Will CPT
Re: How do you know when to stop?
on my cheapie Korean banjo, the threads on the screws start stripping when you try to go too far.
I haven't been able to tear the head - the threads always jump first
# Posted on April 6th 2008 by Bren
Re: How do you know when to stop?
Well Will, it's actually tuned DCGCG!
Yeah, I saw those tensioner gizmos on Elderly, but I wouldn't be using it often enough to justify the expense. Now if I was drummer .................
This is a Renaissance Head & yes, I have fitted a couple before, but I've never yet had once Implode.
Mark, I did see a Fiddle explode at a session one night, when, in the middle of a set of fast reels, someone's old tailgut just snapped! The guy's face was a treat.
Cheers
Dick
# Posted on April 6th 2008 by Ptarmigan
Re: How do you know when to stop?
Hmmmm Bren, a "Korean Stripper" ~ Nice One!
Bet you don't see many of them, down in "Ma Camerons" or The "Prince of Wales"!
Mind you, I could picture them working a treat in "The Lemon Tree"
Sounds like you need a better Banjo, young Sir.
Cheers
Dick
# Posted on April 6th 2008 by Ptarmigan
Re: How do you know when to stop?
aah, Dick, the Lemon Tree is not so very pretty - it has closed, though I believe a "rescue package" has been put together, The Prince of Wales has fallen from grace (camilla wants to know what he was doing on grace in the first place) and Ma Cameron ain't what she used to be, though she still sees an occasional bit of action in her snug. Were it not for Sandy Broons Magic Blue Lampie (© C. Abel) then there would be no place at all for the peripatetic plucker.
You're right about needing a better banjo though - are you any good at convincing banjophobic spouses?
# Posted on April 6th 2008 by Bren
Re: How do you know when to stop?
Aye Bren, changed days in Aberdeen.
On the other subject, I guess I must be, cause at the moment I have 5 Banjos altogether: Two Tenors, Two 5 Strings & an old 7 String Minstrel.
Here's the secret - I let Mrs Pt buy Harps .... she has 4!
Cheers
Dick
# Posted on April 6th 2008 by Ptarmigan
Re: How do you know when to stop?
My general philosophy is to tighten it up with strings on it until it's "really bright and ringy", and then back each one off about a third of a turn.
It's difficult to hear what it really sounds like when you're tightening it up because you're hearing the whole spectrum, and the changes are gradual. But I've found that what my ear finds pleasing in brightness is a bit over the top, and backing it off a bit is good.
I also have a pretty good feeling about how much I should be able to bend a note by pushing the head by the bridge with my fingers.
I also know of people that "tap tune", to get a specific note (usually G sharp, if I remember correctly, because that is a place where the head is not likely to get a bad resonant vibration going), but that seems a little over the top to me
# Posted on April 6th 2008 by Reverend
Re: How do you know when to stop?
Can nuts be too tight?
# Posted on April 6th 2008 by Fiddlebabe
Re: How do you know when to stop?
ouch!
# Posted on April 7th 2008 by Dont
Re: How do you know when to stop?
I put a ren. head on an old vega and got it right the first try just by tweaking as i went, had strings on so i could plunk once in a while. Didn't seem to be rocket science, thank God. Or maybe I should leave her out of it, it being a banjo question. Don
# Posted on April 7th 2008 by Dont
Re: How do you know when to stop?
Dick,
Just got my ebay copy of Boys and Girl from County Clare- always enjoy it- glad for the tip.
-Greg
# Posted on April 7th 2008 by Greg the Piano Tuner
Re: How do you know when to stop?
Well just AFTER it goes Kersplit you back it off a tad before - ok?
# Posted on April 7th 2008 by UKCITTERN
Re: How do you know when to stop?
Thanks Reverend. The fact is, I have the skin on now & it is working fine. Interestingly enough though, I had her on & tightened up to my satisfaction { em, that's the Banjo Head I'm talking about Fiddlebabe!
} before I read your reply, but out of curiousity, I tapped the head & guess what? ..... yup ~ it's G#
Aye, I know Dont, it's not rocket science, but those who do things on a regular basis, usually have a set of useful guide lines they work to, which are often very good to know. In any case, I was just curious to know if there were any standard tips which could help ensure a good fit. { ... of the Banjo Head, Fiddlebabe!
} ........... what's a girly doing on a "Garden Shed" thread anyway? 
Yeah I know that one UK, wasn't it Earl Scruggs who said that first?
"Tighten the head until it breaks ...... and then back off just a little bit."
Aye Greg, it certainly didn't grab any Oscars, but it's an amusing little ditty.
Cheers
Dick
# Posted on April 7th 2008 by Ptarmigan