Hello to everyone and thanks for the forum. I've been lurking and reading for a little while and appreciate the site.
I've been playing guitar for 11 years at a pretty fair level, mostly self-taught with some lessons at the beginning to get me started. I typically learn songs by ear and my interests cover a broad range of material, though my main public playing experience was in an Irish pub band (drinking songs, mostly, but lots of fun). That exposed me to playing with a fiddler for the first time and since then I've wanted to learn fiddle. At the time, I decided against it in order to focus on improving my guitar technique.
Now I'm at a point where I'd really love to commit to learning the fiddle and make it a lifelong pursuit as the guitar has been for me, but I'm in rather inconvenient circumstances at the moment. I will be moving around a lot for about the next five years, I will sometimes be unable to practice, and money will be an issue for a while. That doesn't mean I won't stick with it, but I wonder how much quality progress I might make under those conditions (Of course, many of you may have had it even harder when you started out, for all I know!)
It may be prudent to wait until my life and finances are more stable. But I remember that when I finally began the guitar, I wished I'd already been doing it for years.
No time like the present. Pick up a cheap student model (or check the classified ads and pawn shops, and haggle over the price) and start sawing away. Play as much or as little as you like.
I mean, why not? It doesn't have to be a heavy commitment, you can just learn a few tunes for the fun of it.
I've considered renting from a local fiddle shop - I'll go in tomorrow to talk to them and see what they've got. It is just 'for the fun of it' that I want to do it, even though I also want to approach it seriously and eventually develop to a good level of competency. But I guess as long as I don't expect too much out of myself at the beginning it can't hurt. Whether I start now or not, I am going to start listening in on the local sessions every week.
Another low-cost possibility is tinwhistle. You wouldn't have the cross-over of some guitar skills like with fiddle, but you could start learning tunes, and you can't beat it for portability.
I did happen to see the tin whistle instructional videos posted by a member of this site on youtube. Very nice instrument, I've never played in a group with one. I might do that.
As for learning tunes, I had been trying that on my guitar, but clearly playing low on the neck in EADGBE tuning, with the wide fret spacing and different intervals, probably doesn't translate well at all to fiddle fingerings. An alternative I am trying is tuning the top four strings to GDAE and playing above the twelfth fret. Bowing technique is what I'm worried about far more than my left hand though!
The fiddle is a tough instrument, but if you've got the desire you can learn it. It might be a trick to get good at hitting the notes well if you've been used to frets all that time, though!
Definitely try out the tin whistle too, if you have any interest in that instrument. It's dirt cheap, portable, and a good bit easier than the fiddle IMO, though it's a little bit less flexible.
Yes, the frets definitely allow a little 'latitude' in where your finger lands! I have a decent ear for pitch (we'll see what my cat thinks about that) but it should be interesting making the transition...
I think your cat will probably be more critical of your bowing technique--that's what produces those "fingernails on the chalkboard" noises, when you're starting out. ;>}
Scott -- Later in your life, do you think you will look back and say "I sure wish I would have started the fiddle 5 years later than I did"? I highly doubt it! f you truly want to play it, I would say get started now.
Scott. I followed a similar path to the fiddle as yourself. I played the guitar first but always wanted to play the fiddle. I've been at it 1 1/2 years now and all I can say is ... START NOW. Dont put it off, the sooner you start the sooner you will be able to play... saying that, I got lessons straight away, if youn plan on teaching yourself be carefull not to pick up bad habbits which may be difficult to break later.
... I once took my sailor son down to see him off to sea. He took his guitar, his wife to be took her keyboard. One of the sailors is an accomplished blues guitarist. They used to session (blues) in the fireproof helicopter hold - sound proof and not discouraged. Maybe there's a quiet corner somewhere to sneak off to for quiet practice. Best not have regrets later, hey.
I started last year at the ripe old age of 52, I love it! Hooked completely! You rationalise a lot in your initial mail, which I also did starting out, but I have arrived later at work, gone home earlier, missed parties, hated going on holidaysetc etc. Why? because I would miss some important practice.
I would avoid it. You'll spend money that you need and never accomplish much, I'm afraid. The fiddle is a very difficult instrument to play, much more difficult than the guitar, which you admit to 'a fair level'. When you are committed to practicing every day then you might see some progress, but as you state it; I wouldn't bother. Playing guitar should be enough.
When I think about how much money I've saved over the years by staying home and practicing music, the solace and strength and happiness through hard times it's given me, I think it's been a real bargain.
I was a mere 63 when I started the the fiddle, admittedly with a lifetime of cello playing behind me, which helped. But whenever or however you start it's so important to have some lessons in the early stages.
It's next to impossible for the entirely self-taught to pick up on the basic technical errors they inevitably make, and these errors will remain with them and will cause no end of problems later on unless corrected. I'm talking about bow hold, posture and tone production as the most important things to get right early on if you want to enjoy your playing.
Private tuition from a qualified teacher can be expensive (but looking back you'd appreciate it). However, there are alternatives such as beginners workshops, or an advanced player in a local session may be only too willing to give some basic tips and encouragement. And then there are the superb teaching videos on YouTube by Todd Ehle ("professorV"), who is a real college professor of music - see this link http://www.youtube.com/user/professorV?ob=1
The bottom line is, if you' re physically up to it (and if you play the guitar you certainly are) and you want to play the fiddle there's no upper age limit.
When it comes to learning and practice (of anything IMO), something is always better than nothing. If you start in now and do what you can, you will have a great head start when your circumstances change and you are able to dedicate yourself in the manner you envision.
When I'm too busy to practice much -- like this last week, for example -- I listen to as much trad as I can and remind myself that the music I'm learning was mostly written by people who frequently couldn't play for a week at a time because they had to get the harvest in. It's surprising how educational listening can be. I have an iPod Nano that fits nicely into my power suit pocket, and as soon as the judge says, "We'll take a recess," I'm at one with my playlists. I'm a court reporter, BTW. And there's another benefit to having great music as handy as your circumstances allow; music is a great antidote to real life. And it doesn't get more real than a courthouse (sigh).
Go for it Scott - the sooner the better. If worried about making too much noise, get a good mute - using a mute isn't ideal for developing a good tone, but it'll enable you to work on learning tunes, intonation and bowing. I'm a guitar player myself/closet fiddle player; I only really play guitar if I'm gigging, or at a session - in the house, it's only the fiddle I play, because although not really at the level of session standard playing, it's the instrument I like listening to and playing most. Yeah, go for it!!!
Thanks for all the advice, everybody. I'd rather be practicing music than lots of other things I might do with my free time, so I think the time spent will be worth it.
Wow! I hope I am still so able at that age too! My grandmother is 90 and sharp as ever, but I doubt she'll be picking up an instrument anytime soon.
I just got back from the fiddle shop. I'll go back next Saturday (after payday )and rent a fiddle from them. They have a teacher there, but he's booked through the summer so they recommended another local violin teacher who they said is good with beginning adults. They also told me about some of the sessions in the area (including the one tomorrow I was already planning to attend). I am excited!
Well, Methuselah was 187 when he had his first child... I don't know how old he was when he took up the fiddle, though. But as Abby says, it's never too late!
Good man! Try to get a "rent to own" deal from your fiddle shop.
If your teacher is not familiar with Irish fiddling, you might point him/her to video clips at comhaltas.ie--or those of our own FIDDLE4--to see how it differs from classical violin technique. But any good violin teacher can get you started on the basics. Let us know how it's going.
Further to my post mentioning Todd Ehle's fiddle teaching videos on YouTube (their number is legion!), the following blog usefully categorises them in order of difficulty and by subject matter: http://virtualviolin.blogspot.com/
This is funny; the shop owner even mentioned Todd Ehle's videos (and I've seen them too). He said he never thought he'd actually recommend something on youtube but that they were good lessons. All the same I think at least some live teaching will be indispensable (and he agreed, especially about not developing bad habits). I do like to learn things on my own when possible but interaction with experienced people can be so useful. And yes, they can change their rental into a lease-to-own arrangement if I decide to do that.
I wish I was still living in Annapolis and I could learn from the fiddler in my old band! I'm going to see local sessions as much as I can and ask appropriate questions if I get a chance.
I just started this same adventure about sixth months ago and I do not regret a single minute of time invested thus far. As everyone else has stated, it cannot hurt to get a head start for when you plan to invest more time into it. What you will most likely find out is that it will consume you and become a major part of your life. My beginner advice to you is this, stick with it through the inevitable ups and downs. There will be times where you doubt yourself or others cast doubt on you. Just realize that everyone has gone through the pains of learning to play and each good player has one thing in common, they never gave up!!!
Musicians do all sorts of things. They always have. There are professional musicians. There always were. It's also a great mistake to think of this music as exclusively rural. In fact, based on numbers, I would think it makes more sense to think of it as exclusively urban. *More* sense - still not right though.
Still, I don't think it's particularly condescending - just typically American.
Indeed Ben. I think that maybe a lot of folk today underestimate how good professional musicians were likely to be a few hundred years ago.
For example, were I live in Scotland is the home of the MacCrimmon pipers who were pipers to the MacLeods, one of the most powerful clans at the time. They were excused all other duties and the MacLeods built a college for them to teach pipes. Considering they had no computers or TV's etc they had few distractions. Piping was their lives. There is every possibility they were very good indeed. It would seem to me that similar examples could be found all over. Most clans seem to have had full time pipers and harpists and probably other musicians. I'm sure the same can be said for Ireland.
And to address the question, my opinion is that if you are starting as an adult then don't waste a minute. Start tomorrow even if only for 15 min a day till you have more time. The older you get the longer it will take to learn and the lower the standard you can reach for.
I'll be waiting patiently all week to begin learning this Saturday. Unfortunately the shop's hours and my off time do not coincide during the week days. Learning some tunes on my alternately-tuned guitar in the meantime...and took my iPod with me on the train to work so I could soak up some more music!
I got off work early on Friday afternoon and rented the shop's last fiddle right before they closed. Played for a couple of hours last night and more today - I'm already hooked despite how bad I probably sound! Next up will hopefully be some decent lessons to make sure I'm on the right track.
Learning fiddle - now or later?
Learning fiddle - now or later?
Hello to everyone and thanks for the forum. I've been lurking and reading for a little while and appreciate the site.
I've been playing guitar for 11 years at a pretty fair level, mostly self-taught with some lessons at the beginning to get me started. I typically learn songs by ear and my interests cover a broad range of material, though my main public playing experience was in an Irish pub band (drinking songs, mostly, but lots of fun). That exposed me to playing with a fiddler for the first time and since then I've wanted to learn fiddle. At the time, I decided against it in order to focus on improving my guitar technique.
Now I'm at a point where I'd really love to commit to learning the fiddle and make it a lifelong pursuit as the guitar has been for me, but I'm in rather inconvenient circumstances at the moment. I will be moving around a lot for about the next five years, I will sometimes be unable to practice, and money will be an issue for a while. That doesn't mean I won't stick with it, but I wonder how much quality progress I might make under those conditions (Of course, many of you may have had it even harder when you started out, for all I know!)
It may be prudent to wait until my life and finances are more stable. But I remember that when I finally began the guitar, I wished I'd already been doing it for years.
I welcome everyone's thoughts.
# Posted on March 29th 2008 by Scott Esch
Re: Learning fiddle - now or later?
No time like the present. Pick up a cheap student model (or check the classified ads and pawn shops, and haggle over the price) and start sawing away. Play as much or as little as you like.
I mean, why not? It doesn't have to be a heavy commitment, you can just learn a few tunes for the fun of it.
# Posted on March 29th 2008 by mickray
Re: Learning fiddle - now or later?
I've considered renting from a local fiddle shop - I'll go in tomorrow to talk to them and see what they've got. It is just 'for the fun of it' that I want to do it, even though I also want to approach it seriously and eventually develop to a good level of competency. But I guess as long as I don't expect too much out of myself at the beginning it can't hurt. Whether I start now or not, I am going to start listening in on the local sessions every week.
# Posted on March 29th 2008 by Scott Esch
Re: Learning fiddle - now or later?
Another low-cost possibility is tinwhistle. You wouldn't have the cross-over of some guitar skills like with fiddle, but you could start learning tunes, and you can't beat it for portability.
# Posted on March 29th 2008 by mickray
Re: Learning fiddle - now or later?
I did happen to see the tin whistle instructional videos posted by a member of this site on youtube. Very nice instrument, I've never played in a group with one. I might do that.
As for learning tunes, I had been trying that on my guitar, but clearly playing low on the neck in EADGBE tuning, with the wide fret spacing and different intervals, probably doesn't translate well at all to fiddle fingerings. An alternative I am trying is tuning the top four strings to GDAE and playing above the twelfth fret. Bowing technique is what I'm worried about far more than my left hand though!
# Posted on March 29th 2008 by Scott Esch
Re: Learning fiddle - now or later?
The fiddle is a tough instrument, but if you've got the desire you can learn it. It might be a trick to get good at hitting the notes well if you've been used to frets all that time, though!
Definitely try out the tin whistle too, if you have any interest in that instrument. It's dirt cheap, portable, and a good bit easier than the fiddle IMO, though it's a little bit less flexible.
# Posted on March 29th 2008 by Whiddler
Re: Learning fiddle - now or later?
Yes, the frets definitely allow a little 'latitude' in where your finger lands! I have a decent ear for pitch (we'll see what my cat thinks about that) but it should be interesting making the transition...
# Posted on March 29th 2008 by Scott Esch
Re: Learning fiddle - now or later?
What about tenor banjo?
# Posted on March 29th 2008 by AHendey
Re: Learning fiddle - now or later?
I think your cat will probably be more critical of your bowing technique--that's what produces those "fingernails on the chalkboard" noises, when you're starting out. ;>}
# Posted on March 29th 2008 by mickray
Re: Learning fiddle - now or later?
Scott -- Later in your life, do you think you will look back and say "I sure wish I would have started the fiddle 5 years later than I did"? I highly doubt it! f you truly want to play it, I would say get started now.
# Posted on March 29th 2008 by crazy_fingerz
Re: Learning fiddle - now or later?
Scott. I followed a similar path to the fiddle as yourself. I played the guitar first but always wanted to play the fiddle. I've been at it 1 1/2 years now and all I can say is ... START NOW. Dont put it off, the sooner you start the sooner you will be able to play... saying that, I got lessons straight away, if youn plan on teaching yourself be carefull not to pick up bad habbits which may be difficult to break later.
Best of luck
SS
# Posted on March 29th 2008 by session savage
Re: Learning fiddle - now or later?
... I once took my sailor son down to see him off to sea. He took his guitar, his wife to be took her keyboard. One of the sailors is an accomplished blues guitarist. They used to session (blues) in the fireproof helicopter hold - sound proof and not discouraged. Maybe there's a quiet corner somewhere to sneak off to for quiet practice. Best not have regrets later, hey.
# Posted on March 29th 2008 by Clear Drops
Re: Learning fiddle - now or later?
Hi Scott,
I started last year at the ripe old age of 52, I love it! Hooked completely! You rationalise a lot in your initial mail, which I also did starting out, but I have arrived later at work, gone home earlier, missed parties, hated going on holidaysetc etc. Why? because I would miss some important practice.
Do It now...you won't regret it
# Posted on March 29th 2008 by Shylock
Re: Learning fiddle - now or later?
I would avoid it. You'll spend money that you need and never accomplish much, I'm afraid. The fiddle is a very difficult instrument to play, much more difficult than the guitar, which you admit to 'a fair level'. When you are committed to practicing every day then you might see some progress, but as you state it; I wouldn't bother. Playing guitar should be enough.
# Posted on March 29th 2008 by Farr
Re: Learning fiddle - now or later?
When I think about how much money I've saved over the years by staying home and practicing music, the solace and strength and happiness through hard times it's given me, I think it's been a real bargain.
# Posted on March 29th 2008 by fidkid
Re: Learning fiddle - now or later?
I was a mere 63 when I started the the fiddle, admittedly with a lifetime of cello playing behind me, which helped. But whenever or however you start it's so important to have some lessons in the early stages.
It's next to impossible for the entirely self-taught to pick up on the basic technical errors they inevitably make, and these errors will remain with them and will cause no end of problems later on unless corrected. I'm talking about bow hold, posture and tone production as the most important things to get right early on if you want to enjoy your playing.
Private tuition from a qualified teacher can be expensive (but looking back you'd appreciate it). However, there are alternatives such as beginners workshops, or an advanced player in a local session may be only too willing to give some basic tips and encouragement. And then there are the superb teaching videos on YouTube by Todd Ehle ("professorV"), who is a real college professor of music - see this link
http://www.youtube.com/user/professorV?ob=1
The bottom line is, if you' re physically up to it (and if you play the guitar you certainly are) and you want to play the fiddle there's no upper age limit.
# Posted on March 29th 2008 by lazyhound
Re: Learning fiddle - now or later?
Go for it Scott - I think Farr is teasing you ..
# Posted on March 29th 2008 by jamascc
Re: Learning fiddle - now or later?
When it comes to learning and practice (of anything IMO), something is always better than nothing. If you start in now and do what you can, you will have a great head start when your circumstances change and you are able to dedicate yourself in the manner you envision.
When I'm too busy to practice much -- like this last week, for example -- I listen to as much trad as I can and remind myself that the music I'm learning was mostly written by people who frequently couldn't play for a week at a time because they had to get the harvest in. It's surprising how educational listening can be. I have an iPod Nano that fits nicely into my power suit pocket, and as soon as the judge says, "We'll take a recess," I'm at one with my playlists. I'm a court reporter, BTW. And there's another benefit to having great music as handy as your circumstances allow; music is a great antidote to real life. And it doesn't get more real than a courthouse (sigh).
# Posted on March 29th 2008 by cathrynb
Re: Learning fiddle - now or later?
Are there any web sites for beginner ,s
# Posted on March 29th 2008 by DES RYNNE
Re: Learning fiddle - now or later?
tradlessons.com looks pretty good
# Posted on March 29th 2008 by bogman
Re: Learning fiddle - now or later?
tradlessons.com doesn't do fiddle, does it? Unless I've missed something ...
# Posted on March 29th 2008 by benhall.1
Re: Learning fiddle - now or later?
Go for it Scott - the sooner the better. If worried about making too much noise, get a good mute - using a mute isn't ideal for developing a good tone, but it'll enable you to work on learning tunes, intonation and bowing. I'm a guitar player myself/closet fiddle player; I only really play guitar if I'm gigging, or at a session - in the house, it's only the fiddle I play, because although not really at the level of session standard playing, it's the instrument I like listening to and playing most. Yeah, go for it!!!
# Posted on March 29th 2008 by Ron P
Re: Learning fiddle - now or later?
Thanks for all the advice, everybody. I'd rather be practicing music than lots of other things I might do with my free time, so I think the time spent will be worth it.
# Posted on March 29th 2008 by Scott Esch
Re: Learning fiddle - now or later?
Excellent, glad you've decided to go for it Scott. Make us proud.
I was 88 when I started playing ITM...it's never too late!
# Posted on March 29th 2008 by mehitabel23
Re: Learning fiddle - now or later?
Wow! I hope I am still so able at that age too! My grandmother is 90 and sharp as ever, but I doubt she'll be picking up an instrument anytime soon.
I just got back from the fiddle shop. I'll go back next Saturday (after payday
)and rent a fiddle from them. They have a teacher there, but he's booked through the summer so they recommended another local violin teacher who they said is good with beginning adults. They also told me about some of the sessions in the area (including the one tomorrow I was already planning to attend). I am excited!
# Posted on March 29th 2008 by Scott Esch
Re: Learning fiddle - now or later?
Well, Methuselah was 187 when he had his first child... I don't know how old he was when he took up the fiddle, though. But as Abby says, it's never too late!
# Posted on March 29th 2008 by Joe CSS
Re: Learning fiddle - now or later?
I agree with Crapface ^
# Posted on March 29th 2008 by mehitabel23
Re: Learning fiddle - now or later?
Strong language from a 94-year-old! Phew..
# Posted on March 29th 2008 by Joe CSS
Re: Learning fiddle - now or later?
Good man! Try to get a "rent to own" deal from your fiddle shop.
If your teacher is not familiar with Irish fiddling, you might point him/her to video clips at comhaltas.ie--or those of our own FIDDLE4--to see how it differs from classical violin technique. But any good violin teacher can get you started on the basics. Let us know how it's going.
# Posted on March 29th 2008 by mickray
Re: Learning fiddle - now or later?
Further to my post mentioning Todd Ehle's fiddle teaching videos on YouTube (their number is legion!), the following blog usefully categorises them in order of difficulty and by subject matter:
http://virtualviolin.blogspot.com/
# Posted on March 30th 2008 by lazyhound
Re: Learning fiddle - now or later?
This is funny; the shop owner even mentioned Todd Ehle's videos (and I've seen them too). He said he never thought he'd actually recommend something on youtube but that they were good lessons. All the same I think at least some live teaching will be indispensable (and he agreed, especially about not developing bad habits). I do like to learn things on my own when possible but interaction with experienced people can be so useful. And yes, they can change their rental into a lease-to-own arrangement if I decide to do that.
I wish I was still living in Annapolis and I could learn from the fiddler in my old band! I'm going to see local sessions as much as I can and ask appropriate questions if I get a chance.
# Posted on March 30th 2008 by Scott Esch
Re: Learning fiddle - now or later?
Hi Scott,
I just started this same adventure about sixth months ago and I do not regret a single minute of time invested thus far. As everyone else has stated, it cannot hurt to get a head start for when you plan to invest more time into it. What you will most likely find out is that it will consume you and become a major part of your life. My beginner advice to you is this, stick with it through the inevitable ups and downs. There will be times where you doubt yourself or others cast doubt on you. Just realize that everyone has gone through the pains of learning to play and each good player has one thing in common, they never gave up!!!
# Posted on March 31st 2008 by jasten
Re: Learning fiddle - now or later?
"The music I'm learning was mostly written by people who frequently couldn't play for a week at a time because they had to get the harvest in."
That's really condescending. There are plenty of tunes that were written by urban musicians.
# Posted on March 31st 2008 by Farr
Re: Learning fiddle - now or later?
Musicians do all sorts of things. They always have. There are professional musicians. There always were. It's also a great mistake to think of this music as exclusively rural. In fact, based on numbers, I would think it makes more sense to think of it as exclusively urban. *More* sense - still not right though.
Still, I don't think it's particularly condescending - just typically American.
# Posted on March 31st 2008 by benhall.1
Re: Learning fiddle - now or later?
Indeed Ben. I think that maybe a lot of folk today underestimate how good professional musicians were likely to be a few hundred years ago.
For example, were I live in Scotland is the home of the MacCrimmon pipers who were pipers to the MacLeods, one of the most powerful clans at the time. They were excused all other duties and the MacLeods built a college for them to teach pipes. Considering they had no computers or TV's etc they had few distractions. Piping was their lives. There is every possibility they were very good indeed. It would seem to me that similar examples could be found all over. Most clans seem to have had full time pipers and harpists and probably other musicians. I'm sure the same can be said for Ireland.
And to address the question, my opinion is that if you are starting as an adult then don't waste a minute. Start tomorrow even if only for 15 min a day till you have more time. The older you get the longer it will take to learn and the lower the standard you can reach for.
# Posted on April 1st 2008 by bogman
Re: Learning fiddle - now or later?
I'll be waiting patiently all week to begin learning this Saturday. Unfortunately the shop's hours and my off time do not coincide during the week days. Learning some tunes on my alternately-tuned guitar in the meantime...and took my iPod with me on the train to work so I could soak up some more music!
# Posted on April 1st 2008 by Scott Esch
Re: Learning fiddle - now or later?
You bring tears to my eyes! Go for it - it's the hardest, most frustrating, most wonderful thing there is to do - after bringing up children.
# Posted on April 1st 2008 by stevekeene
Re: Learning fiddle - now or later?
I got off work early on Friday afternoon and rented the shop's last fiddle right before they closed. Played for a couple of hours last night and more today - I'm already hooked despite how bad I probably sound! Next up will hopefully be some decent lessons to make sure I'm on the right track.
# Posted on April 6th 2008 by Scott Esch