I am looking for an instrument to play folk music on. I will be playing it along with my Aunt who plays the guitar. This is purely for fun, our family is attending a ren faire in June where you can camp, and we thought it would be fun to entertain our family and friends around the campfire
I have been researching all of the different options and am starting to get a little cross eyed. I can read music, and played the flute and piccolo from grade school through college. I would love to get an irish flute, but I have read a lot about needing large hands to play it, and mine are small. Also, I would like to get something under $200 to start with.
I looked at the following sites and found a number of instruments I was interested in, but there are so many different keys, and I am only used to playing in C.
I liked the sounds of the sweet fife's the most (after the flutes, but although their flutes are gorgeous they are WAY out of my price range!) I prefer the ones in the keys of A and G, but I wonder how they would sound with a guitar?
Any suggestions anyone can make will be greatly appreciated! I would also like some suggestions about music as well.
Go with a whistle. They're easy to carry around and great for camping. You could buy a low end Irish flute, but anything under $200 isn't too hot. I know a lot of people who like the Tipple PVC flutes, but to me they don't sound very nice. I would advocate buying a mid price whistle. Check out what Doc Jones over at the Irish Flute Store has. He's a great guy and will be more than happy to help you make a good decision. The website is: http://www.irishflutestore.com
Btw- A and G would sound fine with a guitar, but go with D. Thats the key that most people have and if you ever plan on playing with other melody players, thats what you'll need
With a standard (soprano) whistle in the key of D it is quite easy to play in the keys of D, G and A - so that would be an obvious choice of whistle to buy.
A Susato whistle is a good bright starter at a reasonable price (around $30) - but there are many other great whistles to try and most are very inexpensive.
The whistle that requires large hands is the "LOW D" and would not be a recommended choice for starting. They are quite large comparatively and are also more expensive than most.
Also, just type "tin whistle" into Google .. and check some of the many links.
-----------------
Another in-expensive choice might be a harmonica - although, having said that, a 10-hole diatonic "Lee Oskar" will set you back about $45 - $50, and to accompany the guitar it's advisable to have 2 or 3 in different keys.
If you already play flute, transition to a whistle should be no biggie. Susatos are nice, but many (me included) think that they sound too much like recorders. I would go with a Jerry Freeman Tweaked whistle, either the Generation D or the Waltons Mellow D. Both are available at the website above. If you want to go for a bit more, i.e. $100-$200 go for a Burke or a Sindt. Not to confuse you more, but if your playing fireside, volume is another factor to consider. You'll want a nice loud whistle so everyone can hear it. You could always just play the tunes on your boehm flute. That solves the volume and cost aspect.
1) a whistle, pitched in D. Easiest to play, but can be shrill along with the guitar. Under $10 in any music store, or at the Whistle Shop http://www.thewhistleshop.com/index.html
2) keyless flute. Takes a bit longer than the whistle, but even a plastic flute will sound good with the guitar. The Doug Tipple flute is the best bang for the buck at around $60, the last time I looked. http://dougsflutes.googlepages.com/
As a flute player in college, you won't have any trouble with either one. As far as the keys, if you just plan on playing for that one event this summer with the guitar, the C whistle would be an option, but if you decide to play sessions, D is the best key.
A keyless D flute or a D whistle can play all the notes of the D major scale, plus C natural. It's very hard to play the notes F, Bb, Eb, and Ab on a D flute or whistle (at least, it is for me.) Cross-fingering just doesn't produce a good sound.
Good luck to you, and please check back here often.
I completely disagree with the abouve comment about Doug Tipple's flutes - I have one (with the wedge included) and I think it is beautiful. Also, small hands aren't a problem if you use the "piper's grip" - I use it for the right hand... The whistle is a great way to go as well, but I'd recommend a C or D, not a G as it gets a little shrill if you're playing with a guitar. Lower G would be nice, however. Anyway, Doug's site is: http://dougsflutes.googlepages.com/
c.g, when a person says "I'm used to playing in C" they usually mean, they're used to reading music as is, not transposing at sight. If someone gives me a Bb whistle, and concert pitch music, I'd need to take it away to a corner with a pencil...
From one classically-trained flutist to another: If it doesn't matter to you that the flute looks modern, Boehm flute is plenty loud enough for playing with a guitar, and played in the low range does sound much more medieval than the concert sound you're used to getting with the instrument. If you've not played much in the low register before, that range will sound too soft at first, so you'd need to spend some time working up that range. Long tones I think would help the best, as well as playing in that range while listening carefully - soon you'll have a nice full dark sound in that register which can be very lovely.
I have less advice to give about how to pick music. Does the guitar need sheet music too, or can she figure it out from what you're playing or from a sheet with just the melody line? If she can work from the melody line sheet music, then this site has a wealth of great tunes that are melody line only, and you can look up some titles from your favorite recordings, or just try a few at random until you find ones you like. You can tell on the tune description how many people have added a particular tune to their book, which will give you an idea of what some of the more popular/classic tunes are.
The above advice is meant for if you're just looking to play for a small, fun family gathering at the Ren Faire. As a couple of comments above have hinted, if you fall in love with traditional music and want to play in a more authentic style, then there is a very different approach to take. Just reading the melody line from sheet music will give you a sound that really isn't anything like traditional Irish/Scottish/etc, unless you're already very familiar with this style. Especially if you want to play with other session musicians in the area, you'll absolutely need to learn the things that really bring this genre to life, which you won't be able to pick up on from sheet music. You'll get an idea of the extent of these differences from browsing the discussions on this site and by listening carefully to recordings, and a good introductory flute/whistle book (I really like Grey Larsen's), or even better yet a teacher, will point you along the right path, if this is the direction you want to take. I highly recommend it if you want to continue playing folk music - you'll sound much better and enjoy it much more.
Ahren buy a high D whistle. The fingering is the same as your flute. There is no pinky hole (low C) so ~ all fingers down sounds a D note.
Sweetheart G or A should be a good size for small hands. On an A instument it is fairly easy to sound the G natural. Half hole the G#. You are effectively playing in D.
Open holed fifes & whistles are fun.
Also there are some good Irish players who play traditional on silver flute.
I agree that you should stick with the flute. Go with what you know. I don't get the impression you're overly concerned with mastering Irish ornamentation at this point.
Ren Faires don't care much about period instruments, and flute is not period, anyway. Neither is guitar. Go with a recorder, if you want period.
I really haven't done a lot of transposing, and would end up having to spend some quality time with the circle of fifths in order to do so. Because of this, I have already ruled out the Bb fife. I did However; find a professional fife in High D on the sweetheart site that had the option of coming with an interchangable Whistle / Fife head, I think at this point, that is the direction I am headed in. It seems to be the most suggested key, is something I can pursue this type of music with, and is within my price range.
I have always enjoyed listening to folk music, especially the low haunting ballads. Perhaps when I understand the genre better I will invest in a low flute. (I do love playing in the lower register much more than the higher ones anyway.)
As for the guitar. My Aunt, while never formally trained has played for the past 45 years. She can read music, but prefers using chords when she plays.
I will definitely be looking into the books suggested here. And may well start investing my time in some lessons. I am new to this site. Is there a way to find out if there is any whistle players in my area? I am in Northern Ca (Sacramento Area)
I'm also relatively new to this site (and to folk music), but some ways you can find other folk musicians in your area or a teacher:
- Show up at a session to listen, and ask the musicians there. You can find sessions in your area by going to the "sessions" tab at the right and using the "search" function. Right now you have to enter every Sacrament suburb by hand, I believe... I don't think the algorithm searches by locale. You can also ask around if anyone's heard of one. This is what I did.
- Post another message with something like "looking for a fife/whistle teacher in the Sacramento area" as a title. You might get a response. I tried this and didn't get anything... the ones in my area apparently don't use this site much.
- Do a member search for the phrase "Sacramento". When I did this, one profile popped up of a person who says they run a slow session in Sacramento (meant for beginners and newcomers to lean and practice before they graduate to a full-speed session). This person is probably interested in nurturing new players, and may be able to offer advice or contacts.
Ahern,
Since you are thinking of doing business with Sweet, I would strongly recommend that you buy his book The Fifer's Delight. I learned many tunes from this book, and it is organized from the simple to the complex. The tunes are perfect for a D whistle and guitar. There are nicely chosen guitar chords notated on the tunes. My wife and I have gotten lots and lots of pleasure from this book.
Clarke whistles also sell a nice tutorial book and CD combo that would help you learn.
And after trying many whistles over the year, I have returned to playing a simple untweaked wooden fipple tin Clarke whistle in D. Less than ten bucks, and easy to play, not the loudest whistle, but you don't need loud to play with a single guitarist.
You are starting a journey that will bring you a lifetime of fun. Enjoy!!!!
A D flute or D whistle is the same as the C flute you are used to. The D flute is just a C flute without the C and C# keys. You can see on some Irish flutes where they have the holes in the bottom joint. That's where the C and C# would be.
So the D flute is the C flute just without the ability to go down that far. Kind of like when you can get a B foot for you C flute. Doesn't make it a B flute.
The other thing though is that it plays the D scale. No F natural there. But Irish music is almost always in the key of D or G so you don't need the F natural. And lots of tunes in A don't require a G# so you're good to go on that too.
Flute, Fife, Whistle ... Help!
Flute, Fife, Whistle ... Help!
I am looking for an instrument to play folk music on. I will be playing it along with my Aunt who plays the guitar. This is purely for fun, our family is attending a ren faire in June where you can camp, and we thought it would be fun to entertain our family and friends around the campfire
I have been researching all of the different options and am starting to get a little cross eyed. I can read music, and played the flute and piccolo from grade school through college. I would love to get an irish flute, but I have read a lot about needing large hands to play it, and mine are small. Also, I would like to get something under $200 to start with.
I looked at the following sites and found a number of instruments I was interested in, but there are so many different keys, and I am only used to playing in C.
www.sweetheartflute.com
www.folkharp.com
www.erictheflutemaker.com
I liked the sounds of the sweet fife's the most (after the flutes, but although their flutes are gorgeous they are WAY out of my price range!) I prefer the ones in the keys of A and G, but I wonder how they would sound with a guitar?
Any suggestions anyone can make will be greatly appreciated! I would also like some suggestions about music as well.
Thanks!
Ahren
# Posted on March 23rd 2008 by ahren_b
Re: Flute, Fife, Whistle ... Help!
See what I mean?
# Posted on March 23rd 2008 by ...
Re: Flute, Fife, Whistle ... Help!
Go with a whistle. They're easy to carry around and great for camping. You could buy a low end Irish flute, but anything under $200 isn't too hot. I know a lot of people who like the Tipple PVC flutes, but to me they don't sound very nice. I would advocate buying a mid price whistle. Check out what Doc Jones over at the Irish Flute Store has. He's a great guy and will be more than happy to help you make a good decision. The website is: http://www.irishflutestore.com
good luck!!
# Posted on March 23rd 2008 by rob_handel
Re: Flute, Fife, Whistle ... Help!
Btw- A and G would sound fine with a guitar, but go with D. Thats the key that most people have and if you ever plan on playing with other melody players, thats what you'll need
# Posted on March 23rd 2008 by rob_handel
Re: Flute, Fife, Whistle ... Help!
With a standard (soprano) whistle in the key of D it is quite easy to play in the keys of D, G and A - so that would be an obvious choice of whistle to buy.
A Susato whistle is a good bright starter at a reasonable price (around $30) - but there are many other great whistles to try and most are very inexpensive.
The whistle that requires large hands is the "LOW D" and would not be a recommended choice for starting. They are quite large comparatively and are also more expensive than most.
Check out:
http://www.susato.com/susatopennywhistles.html
Also, just type "tin whistle" into Google .. and check some of the many links.
-----------------
Another in-expensive choice might be a harmonica - although, having said that, a 10-hole diatonic "Lee Oskar" will set you back about $45 - $50, and to accompany the guitar it's advisable to have 2 or 3 in different keys.
http://www.ozwinds.com.au/product_info.php?products_id=682
Hope this helps
# Posted on March 23rd 2008 by jamascc
Re: Flute, Fife, Whistle ... Help!
If you already play flute, transition to a whistle should be no biggie. Susatos are nice, but many (me included) think that they sound too much like recorders. I would go with a Jerry Freeman Tweaked whistle, either the Generation D or the Waltons Mellow D. Both are available at the website above. If you want to go for a bit more, i.e. $100-$200 go for a Burke or a Sindt. Not to confuse you more, but if your playing fireside, volume is another factor to consider. You'll want a nice loud whistle so everyone can hear it. You could always just play the tunes on your boehm flute. That solves the volume and cost aspect.
As far as tunes go, there are thousands, but many of them are posted on this site. What you might consider doing is looking here:
http://www.thesession.org/members/index.php/tunebook
That's a list of the tunes added to the most tune books. If you learn any of the tunes on the first couple of pages, they're bound to be good ones!
# Posted on March 23rd 2008 by rob_handel
Re: Flute, Fife, Whistle ... Help!
My suggestions;
1) a whistle, pitched in D. Easiest to play, but can be shrill along with the guitar. Under $10 in any music store, or at the Whistle Shop http://www.thewhistleshop.com/index.html
2) keyless flute. Takes a bit longer than the whistle, but even a plastic flute will sound good with the guitar. The Doug Tipple flute is the best bang for the buck at around $60, the last time I looked. http://dougsflutes.googlepages.com/
As a flute player in college, you won't have any trouble with either one. As far as the keys, if you just plan on playing for that one event this summer with the guitar, the C whistle would be an option, but if you decide to play sessions, D is the best key.
A keyless D flute or a D whistle can play all the notes of the D major scale, plus C natural. It's very hard to play the notes F, Bb, Eb, and Ab on a D flute or whistle (at least, it is for me.) Cross-fingering just doesn't produce a good sound.
Good luck to you, and please check back here often.
# Posted on March 23rd 2008 by Greg the Piano Tuner
Re: Flute, Fife, Whistle ... Help!
...and I forgot to mention, most of the notes in the tunes we play at sessions are those very same ones.
# Posted on March 23rd 2008 by Greg the Piano Tuner
Re: Flute, Fife, Whistle ... Help!
"I can read music . . .I played the flute from grade schoool through college . . . I am only used to playing in C"
If this isn't a wind-up specifically designed to get right up llig's nose then I despair.
# Posted on March 23rd 2008 by c.g.
Re: Flute, Fife, Whistle ... Help!
I completely disagree with the abouve comment about Doug Tipple's flutes - I have one (with the wedge included) and I think it is beautiful. Also, small hands aren't a problem if you use the "piper's grip" - I use it for the right hand... The whistle is a great way to go as well, but I'd recommend a C or D, not a G as it gets a little shrill if you're playing with a guitar. Lower G would be nice, however. Anyway, Doug's site is: http://dougsflutes.googlepages.com/
Pat
# Posted on March 23rd 2008 by plunk111
Re: Flute, Fife, Whistle ... Help!
c.g, when a person says "I'm used to playing in C" they usually mean, they're used to reading music as is, not transposing at sight. If someone gives me a Bb whistle, and concert pitch music, I'd need to take it away to a corner with a pencil...
# Posted on March 23rd 2008 by Harper_9
Re: Flute, Fife, Whistle ... Help!
From one classically-trained flutist to another: If it doesn't matter to you that the flute looks modern, Boehm flute is plenty loud enough for playing with a guitar, and played in the low range does sound much more medieval than the concert sound you're used to getting with the instrument. If you've not played much in the low register before, that range will sound too soft at first, so you'd need to spend some time working up that range. Long tones I think would help the best, as well as playing in that range while listening carefully - soon you'll have a nice full dark sound in that register which can be very lovely.
I have less advice to give about how to pick music. Does the guitar need sheet music too, or can she figure it out from what you're playing or from a sheet with just the melody line? If she can work from the melody line sheet music, then this site has a wealth of great tunes that are melody line only, and you can look up some titles from your favorite recordings, or just try a few at random until you find ones you like. You can tell on the tune description how many people have added a particular tune to their book, which will give you an idea of what some of the more popular/classic tunes are.
The above advice is meant for if you're just looking to play for a small, fun family gathering at the Ren Faire. As a couple of comments above have hinted, if you fall in love with traditional music and want to play in a more authentic style, then there is a very different approach to take. Just reading the melody line from sheet music will give you a sound that really isn't anything like traditional Irish/Scottish/etc, unless you're already very familiar with this style. Especially if you want to play with other session musicians in the area, you'll absolutely need to learn the things that really bring this genre to life, which you won't be able to pick up on from sheet music. You'll get an idea of the extent of these differences from browsing the discussions on this site and by listening carefully to recordings, and a good introductory flute/whistle book (I really like Grey Larsen's), or even better yet a teacher, will point you along the right path, if this is the direction you want to take. I highly recommend it if you want to continue playing folk music - you'll sound much better and enjoy it much more.
# Posted on March 23rd 2008 by fuzzygreen
Re: Flute, Fife, Whistle ... Help!
Ahren buy a high D whistle. The fingering is the same as your flute. There is no pinky hole (low C) so ~ all fingers down sounds a D note.
Sweetheart G or A should be a good size for small hands. On an A instument it is fairly easy to sound the G natural. Half hole the G#. You are effectively playing in D.
Open holed fifes & whistles are fun.
Also there are some good Irish players who play traditional on silver flute.
# Posted on March 23rd 2008 by Ben Steen
Re: Flute, Fife, Whistle ... Help!
I agree that you should stick with the flute. Go with what you know. I don't get the impression you're overly concerned with mastering Irish ornamentation at this point.
Ren Faires don't care much about period instruments, and flute is not period, anyway. Neither is guitar. Go with a recorder, if you want period.
# Posted on March 24th 2008 by Ailin
Re: Flute, Fife, Whistle ... Help!
Thank you all for your responses and advice!
I really haven't done a lot of transposing, and would end up having to spend some quality time with the circle of fifths in order to do so. Because of this, I have already ruled out the Bb fife. I did However; find a professional fife in High D on the sweetheart site that had the option of coming with an interchangable Whistle / Fife head, I think at this point, that is the direction I am headed in. It seems to be the most suggested key, is something I can pursue this type of music with, and is within my price range.
I have always enjoyed listening to folk music, especially the low haunting ballads. Perhaps when I understand the genre better I will invest in a low flute. (I do love playing in the lower register much more than the higher ones anyway.)
As for the guitar. My Aunt, while never formally trained has played for the past 45 years. She can read music, but prefers using chords when she plays.
I will definitely be looking into the books suggested here. And may well start investing my time in some lessons. I am new to this site. Is there a way to find out if there is any whistle players in my area? I am in Northern Ca (Sacramento Area)
Thanks again for all of your advise and input!
~Ahren
# Posted on March 24th 2008 by ahren_b
Re: Flute, Fife, Whistle ... Help!
Hi Ahren,
I'm also relatively new to this site (and to folk music), but some ways you can find other folk musicians in your area or a teacher:
- Show up at a session to listen, and ask the musicians there. You can find sessions in your area by going to the "sessions" tab at the right and using the "search" function. Right now you have to enter every Sacrament suburb by hand, I believe... I don't think the algorithm searches by locale. You can also ask around if anyone's heard of one. This is what I did.
- Post another message with something like "looking for a fife/whistle teacher in the Sacramento area" as a title. You might get a response. I tried this and didn't get anything... the ones in my area apparently don't use this site much.
- Do a member search for the phrase "Sacramento". When I did this, one profile popped up of a person who says they run a slow session in Sacramento (meant for beginners and newcomers to lean and practice before they graduate to a full-speed session). This person is probably interested in nurturing new players, and may be able to offer advice or contacts.
Good luck!
# Posted on March 24th 2008 by fuzzygreen
Re: Flute, Fife, Whistle ... Help!
Ahern,
Since you are thinking of doing business with Sweet, I would strongly recommend that you buy his book The Fifer's Delight. I learned many tunes from this book, and it is organized from the simple to the complex. The tunes are perfect for a D whistle and guitar. There are nicely chosen guitar chords notated on the tunes. My wife and I have gotten lots and lots of pleasure from this book.
Clarke whistles also sell a nice tutorial book and CD combo that would help you learn.
And after trying many whistles over the year, I have returned to playing a simple untweaked wooden fipple tin Clarke whistle in D. Less than ten bucks, and easy to play, not the loudest whistle, but you don't need loud to play with a single guitarist.
You are starting a journey that will bring you a lifetime of fun. Enjoy!!!!
# Posted on March 24th 2008 by AlBrown
Re: Flute, Fife, Whistle ... Help!
A D flute or D whistle is the same as the C flute you are used to. The D flute is just a C flute without the C and C# keys. You can see on some Irish flutes where they have the holes in the bottom joint. That's where the C and C# would be.
So the D flute is the C flute just without the ability to go down that far. Kind of like when you can get a B foot for you C flute. Doesn't make it a B flute.
The other thing though is that it plays the D scale. No F natural there. But Irish music is almost always in the key of D or G so you don't need the F natural. And lots of tunes in A don't require a G# so you're good to go on that too.
The same goes for the D whistle by the way.
# Posted on March 25th 2008 by sbhikes