Dunno wassup wi' me these days, but I increasingly derive a perverse pleasure from going 'round thinking up what might be a fun topic to launch as a discussion in disyah site. Must be some attention-seeking behaviour.... maybe it's Aspergis' Syndrome by Proxy (vis-a-vis Munchausen's!)
Now. Pay attention, class. Today's topic for discussion IS.
The Age of Traditional Musicians.... Had a chat with andybanjo last week about this. Bobby Casey, I'm sure, died quite recently, and was playing well into his eighties....I know cos I was in a session with him at Aras Na nGael maybe ten, fifteen years ago. There's a guy called Dan up in Oxford, that I played with, possibly a decade ago, who hopefully has not abandoned we mere mortals just yet, and he would have been 70-something then, and a fine player..maybe ottery will help us on his true identity...
At the other end, there's a wee lad called Freddy (that's all I know) whom I have played along with at our do and he must only be 13 or 14, and showing distinct signs of class. Also I've known Kane since he was about 14 and he just gets better and better....
I'm always impressed, almost moved to tears, I kid you not, every time I go over to Ireland, and at the merest rumour of a local festival, there's kids, as young as 5 & 6, out on the streets with their whistles, quarter-sized fiddles, boxes they HAVE to sit down to play cos the're too big for them....and they can all play solid tunes!! If you've never witnessed the phenomenon, go do it this summer! It'll change your life.
I kind of get the impression that most of the regulars here are middle-aged, and middle-class....I'm just middle-aged...being forty-
I think age is something that really bums me out when it comes to music.......I may have started playing when I was 15, but I still get the comments at workshops: "See that 5 year old?, he's going to be a real great musician..." and "Well, yeah, you did start kinda late, and may not be as good as someone who started at age 6 or 7, but hey, you never really planned on being a really good musician, that's kinda far-fetched, don't ya think..."......
Yes, those are the exact words from a couple people I will not mention here, but I just hate being told that alllll the time, why do people do it????....and why can't I just have fun and learn and play???
Yes, I know, I'm acting hostile right now, bad day at school, but I just get frustrated with music when it comes to age......
Why is age such an important part of music???.....and why are people always talking to me about it???
Danny, now that you mentioned Musicians and age, you've opened a gate!!! *blush*
Awww blu!!! Did you ever see 'Shine' or 'Amadeus'? If not, go rent them immediately. They are great movies about how adults (specifically fathers in these scenarios) can push their youngsters to succeed at music, sometimes to their downfall. Sometimes adults push young players so hard b/c they want to relive their youth through them, or something... (talk about opening a can of worms)
My cousin started playing Irish music on the flute at age seven, tin whistle at age eight, and uilleann pipes at age eleven. By 1996 he was routinely spending time in Ireland & competing in & winning fleadhs. He's played with the Chieftains, Liz Carroll, John Doyle, plus a bunch of others I won't go into. He's been featured on many CDs & is releasing his own recording soon. He just turned 19. His interests are now turning towards classical piano (specifically the romantics) & pipe organ. But he'll always have that fundamental root of Irish to go back too. It's funny, seeing him recently, I never appreciated how much talent was there. When I say to him, wow I wish I had spent those years in ITM, he says, wow I wish I had spent them learning classical. Well I guess the grass is always greener, but at least I got to try out his Patrick Olwell! Plus he gave me a great crash course in ornamentation.
I have two signs up in my house that really help me when I'm having one of those days when musicially nothing goes right:
"It doesn't get any easier but you get better at it"
and
"It's not how good you are but how much you enjoy music"
Although I've been playing music most of my life (I'm fast approving the big 4-0) I've only been playing ITM the last 7 or 8, and on Concertina the last six months.
Yes, it would have been fantasic to be brillant from day one, and know exactly what music I want to play... but that wasn't the way it worked for me, and to tell the truth, I have really enjoyed the musical road I've been travelling down all my life, wrong turns, dead ends and all. So as cliche as it sounds, my personal musical motto is "Striving For Beauty, Not Perfection"; the first is achievable, the second is not.
Just a few rambling nuerons firing way too early on a Saturday morning
Wow-wow, blu, de-de-de-de! you're among friends, here, remember?
I don't blame you for getting hacked off at those 'wannabe-parents-of-stars'....I can see myself doing it with my own girl, then I try and hold back...let her carve out her own path, and she will be a player of something, I just know....nobody needs to be a *star*.
I've been to so many stage groups/ music groups with my girl...all those sad, hopeful parents thinking their kid was the SPECIAL ONE....extension of their own egos...what they really mean is...
"I had a shite upbringing with few opportunities, so my precious little Megan, or whatever, is going to be successful if it kills me, so she's going to stick at these lessons if it kills her"
......Which, if not literally, could kill any interest. I'm on her case (I hope!) just some of the time.
Playing the stuff is just such a great skill to be in possession of...but I do think a solid grounding of going through the piano/violin/flute grades is no bad thing, and a household environment where various musical instruments are common currency, and where whatever musical T'ing is always on the agenda..well, she doesn't have much choice...ie she's surrounded by music...so she'll arrive at my stage quicker than me. From then on whatever.
Blu, if you feel this is a good place to give out your annoyance about all those kindsa people putting you under pressure when they've no right to, go right ahead. This is OUR space. This is where we talk our stuff. No blushing, just do it, girl.
My idea of starting up a thread to do with age was just fun...just say whatever you want...
This discussion reminds me of a discussion with my brother several years ago who is a professional part-time musician along the lines of jazz piano or whatever, and was bemoaning the fact he did not learn classical piano when he was a lad. But he plays heaps now (since 12 when he started his first bankd). Not long after I met an Irishman who studied classical piano from age 7 and stopped abruptly at 16, took up lots of ITM instruments and sang pretty well too and scarcely plays a note now. So the grass just grows where it will and the past is gone....
its not how long you play but how much you play and how much you play is how much you want to play but at the end of the day youv'e just got to play because the music is so special it has to be played.
buzz.
I started on the harp 7 years ago. And the fiddle 1 1/2 years ago. I am 39. Having a great time. I did have piano lessons for 2 years as a kid, but quit because it was sooo boring. I don't regret quitting. I learned just enough to gain some basic music reading skills and I continued to play the piano--just stuff that I wanted to play, not that dorky stuff from the books they make you play. I had violin/viola for a couple years in grade school, but my parents encouraged me not at all, so eventually I quit that. I thought I wasn't talented enough or something. Turns out talent is worth very little. If you love it and are having fun and you work/play at it for your own joy--you can sometimes leave talent way behind in the dust.
As there is only one moment in tme, the eternal now, I must always be the same age. I can only play a tune once and that's every time I play it. The rest is just a story...and I'm sticking to it.
I have been playing music (guitar, bass and for some years cello, but no ITM) the bigger part of my life (got started around 7 years old, now I'm 20). I started with the fiddle in march this year, and it's starting to sound OK...
Surely I could be GREAT(tm) if I had started with the fiddle at the age of 5 or 6, but I must say that my primary goal is not, have never been and probably never will be, to become a GREAT(tm) musician. I just want to have fun. And I am having more fun than ever!
Also, I believe that having fun can make you, perhaps not a GREAT(tm) musician, but at least a very very good musician people enjoy listening to and playing with. And that's what matters, after all.
I went to a beginners session a couple of weeks ago, and a gentleman was there who really left a big impression on me (wish I could remember his name!.
I judged him to be in his late 60s or early 70s. He was there was a friend of a similar age who explained that this gentlmen used to be a very good bodhran player. However since he had suffered from a stroke, he couldn't talk, and his left hand/arm/shoulder was totally useless, although we were assured his mind was still as sharp as ever!
So would we mind if he sat in and played along one-handed on his bongo drum? (A large one that stood on the floor and didn't need to be held).
As a beginners group we welcome anyone who wants to have a go and join in and we were happy to have him.
Well with a twinkle in his eye and a shy smile, this gentleman could certainly play one-handed very well, and definitely added to the session, never missing a beat! He obviously loved the music and the company as much as the rest of us, and nothing, not even a stroke, was going to stop him.
Hi Danny,
The Dan in Oxford was probably (almost definitely) Danny Lenehan, fiddle player, who unfortunately isn't with us any longer. He died about five years ago. He played right up until the end and was an enormous source of inspiration to young and old alike. He was very charismatic and very generous with his time, giving lessons before sessions and suchlike. I didn't know him very well, though he was always very nice (and tolerant) towards me. His doctors (I believe he had some sort of skin cancer) were apparently astonished that he wouldn't be parted from his fiddle, even when he was very sick. Two of the most memorable sessions I ever went to were his 'last birthday' session, (I think everyone knew he wouldn't see another), where we had a a great cake, and a Scots Piper turned up and completely deafened me; and the one after he died, when everyone (who could) played a tune on his old fiddle.
Mark
Forgot to mention it was a very enjoyable session on Wednesday...except maybe for the recipient of the falling peanut stand. Thanks for the warm welcome you all gave.
It has to be the same man. Thanks for that, Mark. I was touched by your testimonial, and your comments match exactly to the guy I met. A sad loss to the music.
Just wish there were more people like that around.
Dave, thanks and it was great to meet you...yer man, Billy, who received the offending peanut dispenser blow to the head, may have over-reacted (twice!), but he's a lovely guy, coming on great on the mandolin, and I feel I have to stand by him on this occasion.
The true culprit was the drunk who pushed the thing over, then laughed 'cos it landed on Billy, then ran a mile when Billy reared up at him. Micheal the gormless governor didn't help by saying Billy over-reacted, to which Billy over-reacted!
Billy is dead sound and I've got a sneaking admiration for him for scaring that geezer off, cos he (the drunk) is always there, and always a drunken pain, and by his body language one can tell that he thinks we musos are wimps - Billy showed him otherwise. Also he would have been extremely foolish if he had tried that trick on some of the other large lads there - Jack, bigdave, Bill, Aidan!
I reckon some governors just put up with those rough alky types because 'they're good customers' - ie they spend all their wages in there, which means it increases the governors' profits - short-sighted, cos 'normal' people going to a pub don't want to rub shoulders with those kinda people.
I'm forty six, and started playing flute and whistle in my twenties. But I never really got properly focussed on it until about ten years ago (I just used to diddle aimlessly at home). I know I started to late to ever make a great flute player, but I get by well enough to have a lot of fun. I've watched little kids at festivals in Ireland turning out those 'solid tunes', and I think, "wow, what a great foundation for building a life playing music on!" And some of the young players who turn up at the Herschell Arms just blow everyone away. But I console myself with the thought that maybe older players who started late, no matter what their technical limitations, still can contribute something very useful, simply because of the amount of time they've spent absorbing the music.
Anyway, my mate Jerry has a great gameplan for learning the fiddle. He thinks he'll never achieve what he really wants with it, so he plans to secretly practice it until he's about seventy, and then start taking it to sessions. He reckons people will hear him and say, "Listen to that old geezer - he must have been really something in his day!"
When I was little I played Acordian (that was almost half my size) for several years and I remember playing in front of a lot of people in a hall. I wasn
Hi everyone, sorry I didn't come back last night, I must have really been steamed from posting!!
I'm 16, and I know I'm a beginner, and I know it will take time time, but I hate it when people tell me that they don't understand why I can't play as well as the 5 year old across from me at a pub, etc.
You all have made me feel much better ......it's just hard being 16 and starting from scratch on something.....I get the comments all the time.....grrrrrrr......MUST.......GET.......INVISIBLE......WALL.....
But is that why I get the comments???.....because some other parents are *forcing* their kids to play???.....am I missing something?? *blush*
No...you probably get comments, Karen, because you look like someone they don't have to be afraid of talking to. So that's good, right?
Keeping in mind that this is coming from an AR perfectionist (well, about some things, certainly not my housekeeping), it doesn't do to stress out and worry too much about exactly how "good" you're going to get at this stuff. Much better to set your sights on a goal -- any goal -- and then try to choose the most enjoyable and fun route to get there in your own damn good time.
Personally, my own goal is to be good enough to be able to sit in on any but the real top level sessions and not feel like I'm making anyone (ie: one of the "good" players) not want to play because I play too poorly. Am I there yet? Nope. But I'm having a lot of fun anyway, and I figure I'll get there sooner or later if I keep working at it.
Oddly enough, even with all that, I once had someone comment to me that I was "one of the big boys" at a local session. I nearly fell off the stool (first from shock, then from laughing. Then I nearly cried because of what it meant about our local ITM scene here in Denver.) So keep in mind that we're often our own worst critics and our own best reality checks, all at the same time. You just have to know which one you're functioning as at the time.
Hey Blu--it's hard being 16. Period. I remember. Just think how great you'll be when you are the age most of us "older" folks are!
And not all of those kids are enjoying themselves the way you are. Love (and lots of practicing/playing) for the music can take you really, really far! Trust me on this one, Karen.
LOL -- by the way, I don't want to be a downer, but it's not just being 16. Being any age is difficult, period. It's just that "difficult" keeps changing definitions on you. I still remember my shock when I finally figured out that the big secret is that nobody ever feels "grown up" -- there's never a magic moment when suddenly you can handle everything that life throws at you with aplomb, and there's always going to be someone smarter, more mature, and more grown up than you. (Sometimes they're 16.)
I'm 53 and have played recorder since I was 8, clarinet at 10, guitar at 15. For two years now I've been playing whistle. It wasn't long into the whistle that I was asked to perform for a cancer Walk-a-Thon fundraiser by a friend of mine who is a cancer survivor. I had to think twice, but I worked hard on some tunes I already knew, and worked up a couple of new ones from Kevin Crawford's In Good Company CD. The event was held in the evening in the park here in Taos, New Mexico. I played pretty well, and when I opened my eyes (I frequently play with my eyes closed) a whole squad of children, and some adults, were dancing to the music. I got a number of compliments as to the ethereal nature of the tunes wafting through the night air.
I realize more and more that there are any number of venues where a simple and sincere performance is appreciated. In this case, if I had not played, no one else would have.
It's never too late to start anything. Don't beat yourself up for not having started sooner and use that energy to start NOW.
My brother went to chiropractor school at the age of 40 and by 45 was Dr. Knox! An aunt of ours who thought he was dumb said "He can't do that!". Too late auntie, he did it.
Chris
I'm 16. I've been playing fiddle for about 5/6 years and sometimes I still feel like a beginner. I've being playing piano for 2 years and I love it. I'm pretty ok on piano (If I may say so myself) and I love it. They aren't that many piano players round and I want to make a difference to Irish traditional piano playing. I sometimes feel too old to be still learning when I hear some of the younger players!! but they started learning before me and I'll never stop learning Irish music because it's a continous maturity of a tradition. It will keep on changing so I'll be learning til I die!
Carrie*
Ottery, your mate Jerry's on to something with that gameplan! Unfortunately, I wouldn't be able to get away with it in Bristol because I've been taking my fiddle to sessions for the last couple of years, so they know what I'm like (btw, I've got a few years to go before I reach 70!). Now if I were to move to a different part of the country that might be different ...
From reading the discussions on this site it seems absolutely crucial that you start at an early age if you want to be any good at Aye tee emm. Someone said learn 4 tunes really well in your first year. So 10 years later you will have 40 solid tunes under your belt. By the time you get the 500 required to go down the local session you'll be err.... quite a bit older. Unfortunatley I wasted my youth learing Black sabbath and deep purple riffs. As far as ITM goes I am nearly 2 and half years old and still waiting for my hair to grow in
Mark, ah yes. Thanks. Actually, I was using Ottery's word, which as you know is common UK usage for a fairly close friend, with no implied sexual connotations. The old problem of two countries divided by a common language!
Trevor
The double-cd set of Michael Gorman's recordings ("The Sligo Champion" Topic Records TSCD525D) cover his fiddle playing from 1951 to 1968 (he died in 1970 aged 75) and show how someone's fiddle playing can change with the progression into old age. The musicianship still remains, though. The cd set includes a detailed and extensive musical biography of Michael Gorman.
Trevor
I don't think it's ever to late to learn something - playing an instrument, or anything else. Well OK, perhaps you shouldn't start karate in your 90s...
I'm 37 and I've been learning the whistle with moderate, if patchy, application, for about a year. I did play a bit in my late teens and twenties, just picked up a small repertoire of tunes by ear but never applied myself or got a lesson, sadly. If I'd learnt to do rolls and stuff, back then, I might have progressed much further and got more serious about it. However, I was too lacking in confidence, and put down the whistle for ten years while I went other routes, learned to sing, and played bass in a rock band. Now I'm back playing the whistle again, I do regret ever stopping - but the difference is that now, I can see that if you put in the time, and you get the help you need, you progress. Nothing mysterious about it. Back then, I thought there was some magic secret to it, which I just couldn't find. (Turns out to be rolls, cuts and practice.)
Weirdly, in my twenties I did have a defeatist attitude that I was already too old. Now, nearly 40, I'm less prejudiced. I think there's a tendency, when you're young, to think that nothing counts unless you can do it right away. If someone had told me when I was 18 (and they probably did) that I could expect to play whistle reasonably well in 2 or 3 years, that would have sounded like forever. Now, it's a cheeringly close prospect.
Yes, you are stiffer both mentally and physically as you age, and it takes longer to learn. But other qualities make up for it; more perseverance, a more realistic long-term view, more confidence... more experience of how to learn things... the wisdom to enjoy the journey and not fixate so wistfully on the destination.
My Grandma is learning Spanish, in her eighties. She may never gain the confidence to speak it with ease - it's her first other language - but she can read and write it pretty well and derives an enormous amount of pleasure from it. In fact, she got her GCSE last year! (For you non-Brits, that's the exam you'd normally take aged about 16).
I went to see a great photographic exhibition this week, of prints by the Victorian photographer Julia Margaret Cameron. She started taking photographs when she was 48 years old - and is still revered today for her remarkable eye as well as her technical abilities.
One day, if I ever have the time, I might set up a website dedicated to late-developers! Society is so bedazzled by youth; I think we should rise up, brothers and sisters, and fight the notion that from middle-age onwards, the game is basically up.
Oh, and by the way, I'm now starting to play more at sessions, finding I know new tunes every week, and gradually losing the habit of crouching in the darkest corner. Still can't do my rolls, though...
Good lass yersell, Helen - 37? - sure, you don't look a day over 50! - just joking, pal, I would have knocked a decade off 37 if you hadn't said. I like the stuff you were saying - also there's that American painter, Grandma Moses, who didn't start painting till she was 60, I think, then kept it up till she was 90! One of you Yanks correct me if I'm wrong, here. Rembrandt was yer man, who did self portraits, from when he was a young trooper all the way though to when he was an old geezer...every picture tells a story? nope, in this case it was 100 pictures telling one story! and as he got older the paintings shewed more depth and subtlety.
If I were you, just keep practicing and going to the sessions (which you are doing). You may think I'm a mad egotistical flutist (which is true) but I've always got one ear cocked on what else is going on at sessions, and your whistling is excellent for 1 year.
Had a great night (and early morning!) over at Cheer na Nog earlier today(!), with Foxy and Co. - great bunch of skins. Not one of the main dudes with less than 3 decades under their belt. Heading up to Porterhouse, then the Woodman - ye can tell the fambly's away, can't you...sorry for rambling.
Hey Trevor, I met someone last night who knows you! A lady, mature lady shall we say, originally from the north of Ireland, who plays a nice bit of bodhr
I've a friend in our village who came to a party a couple of weeks ago at which he heard me play the whistle. He was quite taken with it (don't ask why - I'm not much of a whistle player, I tend to either get overexcited and achieve a horribly harsh 'almost overblown' sound or I forget to breathe and go blue and drop off my twig).
Anyway, a couple of days ago I got a phone call in the middle of the afternoon. It was the aforementioned obsessive person, Pete. "Mark," he says, "I'm in Hickeys (Music shop in Reading), What sort of whistle should I get?"
I told him to get a D Generation.
"Can I come round so you can show me what to do, just to get me off the ground?"
"Err, yes. When do you you want to come?"
"Are you doing anything tonight?"
"Err no, though I won't have finished work and had tea before 8.30."
At 8.30 and one second, the doorbell went. It was Pete with his whistle and a four pack of The Black stuff as 'payment' (at least he has some manners!).
I sat him down and we went through the basic mechanics of lifting your fingers up and down in order, coordinated tonguing, and the rudiments of playing a scale. It took a good hour and a half to get him to be able to even slowly finger the two octaves, so I sent him off to practise that, and told him to come back in a couple of weeks, and that in the meantime I'd find him a decent tutor book.
So it should be interesting, in the context of many of the posts above, to see how (if) he gets on. He's 47 years old. Super keen, and completely clueless (He's never played ANY instrument).
Perhaps a rare example of a perfect 'control sample'... I'll keep youse all posted!
Do, ottery dear, that should be fun to track! We'll take Pete on as our pet project, shall we?
Funny thing, you know, as we get more and more members who know each other. Sometimes I've found that getting to re-know your mates (we don't always use the word as a "sexual partner", Mark, although most often, yes) online has the weirdest side effect. As they post their thoughts that one would not normally burst out with at a session, you actually discover sides and aspects of them that you never dreamed existed...
I think it was me who told the story on Joan Hanrahan saying that if a student sticks with four tunes and gets them down really well that year, she'll be able to teach them almost everything they need to know about playing this stuff with those four tunes. But you don't stick at the four in the following years, y'see, bouzy. Personally, I think about 20 tunes the first year is plenty to be getting on with, low end 10 tunes, I'd think.
After that, the sky (and your motivation level) is the limit.
My husband has been trying to settle on the instrument he wants to play. So far he's gone through guitar, whistle, pipes (using a borrowed practise set), and has now seemingly settled on bouzouki. As usual in these things, he asked me to help him learn some of this stuff, and now he doesn't necessarily trust what I tell him. "Slow down!" I yelled yesterday from painting the stairs. "But I'm working on *insert whatever here*", he says in the living room. "You'll get over *insert whatever here* much faster if you play slower," I insist. No answer as he charges on playing far too fast for good music. Fair play, though, he's started finally breaking trouble phrases down and using them as drills for his fingers, and now sometimes he even slows down for about one rep before speeding up again to too fast...
I haven't been around in ITM long enough to have met all that many old players; agewise, I'm certainly in the upper quartile. But in the classical orchestras I play in there are many musicians who have apparently been playing since time began. I can think of several who are still playing, well into their 70's and 80's. A lady doctor, Beryl Corner, in my chamber orchestra is in her 90's and still playing the violin. She was a consultant before I was born in 1938, and still does consultancy work. The music world in general seems to be littered with musicians working into advanced old age, as are artists, actors, writers and academics in other fields.
As regards learning, it is certainly a different process for the older person. Apparently slower, maybe, but this is offset by experience, the ability to see connections that wouldn't always be obvious to the younger learner, and greater efficiency in the learning process. When I retired I took the opportunity to attend extra-mural classes in the classics run by a subsidiary of Clifton College in Bristol for the mature student. I wanted to bring my school Latin back up to speed and also to learn Greek, which I never had the opportunity to learn. There were 6 or 7 of us in the two classes, ages ranging from mid-50's up to a lady of about 90. Over two years our tutor took us up to GCSE level in grammar and vocabulary, with a fair amount of broad-spectrum classical and post-classical reading on the way. All we would need to do, she said, to get good passes at GCSE, if we wished to go that route, would be to work on the appropriate set books.
When it comes to a mature person learning a musical instrument, many will have had some sort of musical instrument training in childhood. Even if this is apparently forgotten, some of the motor and mental skills are still lurking and can be enticed back into activity. If someone already plays an instrument well then active motor and mental skills can transfer fairly readily to a new instrument, especially if the two instruments are from the same family. At the other end of the spectrum the progress of Ottery's "control sample" should be very interesting.
Billy Moran, box player extraordinaire at the Quiet Man sessions in Melbourne OZ must be pushing 80+ (Whaddaya say Dow?) When I was chatting with him a month or two ago he was telling me mate (it's an ozzie 'friend', a la the pommie vernacular) that he knows his dad and asked after his health. Sadly me mate's dad isn't travelling too well and he relayed this to Billy, who replied that he reckons its all the good music in his life that keeps himself so sprightly.
Me, I'm 42 and been playing guitar since I was 13. Got into trad stuff playing in an Aussie bush band (trad tunes for set dancing) about 20 years back and recently revitalised by playing in a duo and learning a bit of mando with me mate on the fiddle. (He's 45 and picked fiddle up about four years ago after many years on guitar). Mind you, I was one of those 6 - 7 year olds whose parents "encouraged" them to play music. In my case it was the recorder and I was good, but hated it. (I had good taste even then ) I finally rebelled and took up a "real" instrument after about 7 years.
Actually I've never been to the Quiet Man session - the only one I've been to in Melbs is the Dan, and only once, so I don't think I've even met Billy...
He's a lovelly bloke and knows more tunes than almost anyone I've ever met. The pub's got a great atmosphere and the lady publican clearly loves hosting the session. You'll have to try and get there (and I'll have to try and get there again!)
I can never understand why any Australians would ever be wanting to play Irish music. Australia is the most wonderful brilliant country I have ever been to, and I wish dearly that I could live there, so why would they need to sit about in sessions, doing jigs and reels, when they've got the rest of Oz to look at.
I've been all over Europe, USA, most of central and S. Amreica, and so on, but Australia is one unforgettable place. I can't see ozzies saying the same about Catford.
Best wishes to all antipodean practitioners of the Faith, and of course, please be aware that I'm on the wind-up, only 'cos I'm so JJealous of your once-in-the-lifetime-of-a-species golden opportunity to have a good life!
Sheesh! That's a mighty hefty rap for Oz Danny. Mind you, having travelled pretty extensively meself in years gone by, I agree it's pretty good down here However, we can't spend ALL our lives beating Pomms at cricket, gallivanting around on the beach and complaining about our government's brown-nosing George Bush! There's just something so energetic and exciting about The Music that I got hooked from the first time I heard it (Planxty!). And the Craic at sessions is usually bloody brilliant. That, plus the fact that we are full of ex-pat Paddies, pomms and Jocks have given rise to a really strong ITM / trad folk scene. If you ever make it back Danny (or others) don't forget to let me know.
I've come to this thread late and have just skimmed through it, so forgive me if I'm re-iterating what somebody else has already said. Like many people here, I often find myself using my relatively late start - I first picked up both mandolin and tin whistle at about 19 or 20 years of age, having had no previous background in traditional music - as an excuse for not being as good a musician as I would like to be. But, let's face it, being brought up in a middle-class Jewish family in one of the leafier parts of West London, there was little chance of my being offered the opportunity to learn Irish tradtional music before I was of an age when I could make my own decisions.
In fact, I was given ample opportunity to learn music as a child. I started piano lessons aged 6, but I was too headstrong to make any real progress in classical music. I hated practising, and I didn't see the point in reading music and playing finger exercises, when I could get far more enjoyment out of playing what I wanted to play. One of my regrets is that I turned down a recommendation by my school music teacher, when I was 8 or 9, that I take up the violin - I didn't see the point in an instrument which couldn't have - or, at least, didn't lend itself to having - chords played on it. So I chose the guitar, which I gave up after a couple of months as it was too much of a strain on my diminutive hands (I was at a slight disadvantage in that the 3/4-size guitar that my father had bought from a work colleague happened to be a steel-strung instrument - not ideal for tender 8-year-old fingers) - and it involved too much practice for my liking.
My point is, had I been born into the Egan family instead of the Eger family, my maternal grandfather had been a sean-n
Hey All! I didn't mean to sound all big headed in the "age" discussion. When I posted my age in 3rd person, I reliazed that none of you would probably know who I was. I had already posted my age so I went bak down to the box and wrote "that's me". As soon as I hit "post" emily's comment came up about her cousin. So mine was right after hers instead of telling you all that AJ was me.
Later I was reading over the discussion agian and I saw what had happened and noticed it was a bit arrogant.
So I was just clearing up so you didn't think too poorly of me!
I started on Tonette (like a recorder) in 5th grade, 10 yrs old. Then saxophone in 6th thru 12 and then 4 years as a USNavy musician and picked up clarinet. Discharged after 4 years in 1953 and stopped playing until 1984 when I picked up a recorder and gradually learned reels and jigs for contra dancing. Went to whistle after about 3 years and have been playing at jams, dances and concerts since then. Also picked up harmonica and bodhran over the years and really enjoy playing Irish and Scots music, old-time apalachian (with Celtic roots) along with jazz and dance music on sax which I re-started in 1993 and played since in two 18 piece and a 10 piece dance band plus a community concert band. I'm 71+ and enjoying many types of music ... classical, early jazz, dixieland, Celtic, etc. I think that it keeps me feeling young and I'm hoping for another 10-20 years!
I've really enjoyed reading all of the above responses from all ages! I know several really young but excellent musicians and heard many in Scotland in 1988. I'm so pleased to have 'discovered' Celtic music late in life but have no regrets about trying to learn it when my fingers and reactions have slowed a bit. I've even tried the bagpipes for a couple of years until I developed tendonitis in my left shoulder and had to take it easy for a while. I plan to start up the pipes again soon! Keep up the wonderful comments about music and sessions! Bill
Re: To all who were involved in the Age discussion
LOL!
AJ if there's anyone here with terribly poor manners, it's me! Maybe I can learn a thing or to from YOU when we get together to play some tunes. Got any favorites or things you're working on?
Re: To all who were involved in the Age discussion
AJ, I think it's great that you spend your precious time cutting your dad's lawn. I really think he should be letting you play music instead, and you should tell him so from me.
LOL @ David's post. You know, the thing about trad music is that it's really creative. I started out on classical piano and played for years. I never actually officially gave up, but I started being a backpacker and travelling the world, and of course I couldn't take a piano with me. Also, like David, I could never see the point of doing finger exercises that were boring-sounding, and always having to read music. I love trad because every tune is a sort of finger exercise in itself; you can play it at different speeds and it will still sound nice, and the more you play tunes, the better your technique becomes because they are full of arpeggios and scales. But the main thing are the social and creative aspects. Playing piano was all about enjoying improvising and playing my favourite pieces at home, and then crapping myself when I had a lesson and hadn't practised what I was supposed to have practised, for my own good, or whatever. With trad, I can be as good or as crap as I wish - it's all down to how much work I put in. I can learn as many or as few tunes as I wish. I can learn the tunes I like and leave the ones I don't. When I go to a session, it's not like "I have to play this particular tune in such-and-such a style because that's what's expected of me", it's about "ooh, I've just thought of a really nice tune that I want to play", or "wow that tune you're playing is great - I haven't played it in ages. Let's all play it". And the whole time you can be having a drink and enjoying yourself. And you can mess about with ornamentation and harmonies to a certain extent, so it's more creative than a classical ensemble in that sense, where you've all decided roughly what the dynamics are going to be beforehand. I'm not knocking classical music, and I shouldn't even be trying to compare them, because they're such different beasts, but David's post set me off.
Emily,
One of my favorite tunes is "The Roaring Bar Maid", that one is posted in the sessions. Another favorite would be"Jenny's Chickens".
you probably know one of those there both great tunes!
I wouldn't knock classical, either, or jazz, latin, quality rock, Indian, African, and so on, but what amuses me is a distinct mentality among certain classical people, that their stuff is actually "superior" to ours! It's like a joke, & they just don't see the punchline... they just don't get it.
Re: To all who were involved in the Age discussion
Shoot AJ, you're gonna show me up & then some! I've been meaning to learn Jennie's Chickens, it's been sitting in my tune book for ages. Is the setting on here close enough to yours? If so, I shall try to manage it for the weekend, but I can't guarantee anything! Actually it would be even cooler if you could just teach it to me directly! Would you be up for that?
Is your dad still making you cut the lawn with scissors, btw?
Re: To all who were involved in the Age discussion
Poor AJ, in full protective body gear down on hands & knees cutting the grass with nail clippers, & on a national holiday too! What's that gonna do to his bowing arm, for pete's sake?? Have a little compassion, cuch!! I need to learn Jennie's Chickens!
Re: To all who were involved in the Age discussion
This is the most ridiculous thread ever. Cutting lawns with nail clippers indeed! Welcome to inconsequential postinghood AJ (as I think Zina once put it, or was it "posthood"?)
Most ridiculous? Oh yeah Mr Crocodile Dundee, I bet between using your boomerang to bring down wild marsupials & barfing over your balcony in the untamed wilderness, you are a real bastion of sobriety.
Shoot, I forgot to be civil, darnit!
*ahem* That is to say, you are certainly correct Dubg. Please accept my apologies for meandering into unnecessary frivolity. Let me steer the conversation back to the Music....
Speaking of which, I did learn Roaring Barmaid last night, AJ, that tune kicks butt! Or as Jeremy says, it's so addictive it should come with a health warning. I actually have the B part no problem, it's the A part I need to slow down with the rolls a bit, but otherwise, awesome!!!
WOW! you guys are sure giving my dad lots credit. up until last year he use to make me use safety scissors!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! they can't even cut paper!!
Emily, what tunes do you recomend that i worl up for the weekend????? hopefully i won't know know them, this will make learn more tune.
Well you've got that tune list I sent to your dad, he flagged a good #! Star of Munster & My Love is in America are 2 reels I really like & seem to be session standards, but I'm sure we'll have a great time no matter what we play!
I think becoming good at an instrument is mainly about determination and having a total belief in yourself that you can and will learn.A good pair of ears and a retentive memory helps to speed the learning process up but without determined application you will never get anywhere regardless of how old you are.
I really like what you said, does that mean I shouldn't listen when people say that musicians who started at age 5 have a larger advantage over me???...I know they have more under their belt, but does that leave all the other people who didn't start earlier in trouble??....eeek! confused, again *blush*
Think of the differences between when you were 5, & the young lady you are now becoming. All those years shaped who you are NOW, why you love the Music NOW. Maybe some of those 5 year olds will resent having a fiddle forced into their hands at such a young age (as some rebel against classical piano lessons or such), & these kids may come to find a true love for jazz, or techno or Moravian nose flute tunes, or possibly radical performance art, or god forbid, bungee jumping. You can't change the past, just always remember it has lead you up to the person you are NOW! If you are ever in doubt, pretend you are 21 years old, or 30 or 50, or 90, or 110! Then you will be able to say for the rest of your life, I"m so glad I started when I was 15! You are choosing this music as a part of your adult personality, out of free will, out of love. You can't argue with love, can you?
Have faith in yourself, K, & walk your path in beauty, as the Navajo say! B/c you've chosen a great path that can only lead you to happiness, fun & meeting lots of cool ppl, like US! hahahahahaha! woooooo uh forget that last part if it means you're going to start taking up bungee jumping.
Musicians and Age
Musicians and Age
Dunno wassup wi' me these days, but I increasingly derive a perverse pleasure from going 'round thinking up what might be a fun topic to launch as a discussion in disyah site. Must be some attention-seeking behaviour.... maybe it's Aspergis' Syndrome by Proxy (vis-a-vis Munchausen's!)
Now. Pay attention, class. Today's topic for discussion IS.
The Age of Traditional Musicians.... Had a chat with andybanjo last week about this. Bobby Casey, I'm sure, died quite recently, and was playing well into his eighties....I know cos I was in a session with him at Aras Na nGael maybe ten, fifteen years ago. There's a guy called Dan up in Oxford, that I played with, possibly a decade ago, who hopefully has not abandoned we mere mortals just yet, and he would have been 70-something then, and a fine player..maybe ottery will help us on his true identity...
At the other end, there's a wee lad called Freddy (that's all I know) whom I have played along with at our do and he must only be 13 or 14, and showing distinct signs of class. Also I've known Kane since he was about 14 and he just gets better and better....
I'm always impressed, almost moved to tears, I kid you not, every time I go over to Ireland, and at the merest rumour of a local festival, there's kids, as young as 5 & 6, out on the streets with their whistles, quarter-sized fiddles, boxes they HAVE to sit down to play cos the're too big for them....and they can all play solid tunes!! If you've never witnessed the phenomenon, go do it this summer! It'll change your life.
I kind of get the impression that most of the regulars here are middle-aged, and middle-class....I'm just middle-aged...being forty-
# Posted on May 23rd 2003 by Rudall the time
Re: Musicians and Age
What, are you saying that 42 isn't old? It sure feels old, especially every Tuesday when I take my stepdancing classes...
Go on, speak up, you young'uns and old'uns...
Zina
# Posted on May 23rd 2003 by Zina Lee
Re: Musicians and Age
I'm 16....and I love all this music and plan to continue participating in it for many years ahead.....
# Posted on May 23rd 2003 by Kallie
Re: Musicians and Age
I think age is something that really bums me out when it comes to music.......I may have started playing when I was 15, but I still get the comments at workshops: "See that 5 year old?, he's going to be a real great musician..." and "Well, yeah, you did start kinda late, and may not be as good as someone who started at age 6 or 7, but hey, you never really planned on being a really good musician, that's kinda far-fetched, don't ya think..."......
Yes, those are the exact words from a couple people I will not mention here, but I just hate being told that alllll the time, why do people do it????....and why can't I just have fun and learn and play???
Yes, I know, I'm acting hostile right now, bad day at school, but I just get frustrated with music when it comes to age......
Why is age such an important part of music???.....and why are people always talking to me about it???
Danny, now that you mentioned Musicians and age, you've opened a gate!!! *blush*
# Posted on May 23rd 2003 by BluFiddle
Re: Musicians and Age
Blufiddle, how old are you. How old are you? Tell us - it's important. We have to know!
# Posted on May 23rd 2003 by Dr. Dow
Re: Musicians and Age
aj is 14
# Posted on May 23rd 2003 by berserker
Re: Musicians and Age
Awww blu!!! Did you ever see 'Shine' or 'Amadeus'? If not, go rent them immediately. They are great movies about how adults (specifically fathers in these scenarios) can push their youngsters to succeed at music, sometimes to their downfall. Sometimes adults push young players so hard b/c they want to relive their youth through them, or something... (talk about opening a can of worms)
My cousin started playing Irish music on the flute at age seven, tin whistle at age eight, and uilleann pipes at age eleven. By 1996 he was routinely spending time in Ireland & competing in & winning fleadhs. He's played with the Chieftains, Liz Carroll, John Doyle, plus a bunch of others I won't go into. He's been featured on many CDs & is releasing his own recording soon. He just turned 19. His interests are now turning towards classical piano (specifically the romantics) & pipe organ. But he'll always have that fundamental root of Irish to go back too. It's funny, seeing him recently, I never appreciated how much talent was there. When I say to him, wow I wish I had spent those years in ITM, he says, wow I wish I had spent them learning classical. Well I guess the grass is always greener, but at least I got to try out his Patrick Olwell! Plus he gave me a great crash course in ornamentation.
# Posted on May 23rd 2003 by emily_bmore
that's me
# Posted on May 23rd 2003 by berserker
Re: Musicians and Age
Yes dear. But I thought you played fiddle.
# Posted on May 23rd 2003 by emily_bmore
Re: Musicians and Age
I have two signs up in my house that really help me when I'm having one of those days when musicially nothing goes right:
"It doesn't get any easier but you get better at it"
and
"It's not how good you are but how much you enjoy music"
Although I've been playing music most of my life (I'm fast approving the big 4-0) I've only been playing ITM the last 7 or 8, and on Concertina the last six months.
Yes, it would have been fantasic to be brillant from day one, and know exactly what music I want to play... but that wasn't the way it worked for me, and to tell the truth, I have really enjoyed the musical road I've been travelling down all my life, wrong turns, dead ends and all. So as cliche as it sounds, my personal musical motto is "Striving For Beauty, Not Perfection"; the first is achievable, the second is not.
Just a few rambling nuerons firing way too early on a Saturday morning
Regards
Morgana
(a.k.a ptollemy)
# Posted on May 23rd 2003 by Ptollemy
Re: Musicians and Age
Wow-wow, blu, de-de-de-de! you're among friends, here, remember?
I don't blame you for getting hacked off at those 'wannabe-parents-of-stars'....I can see myself doing it with my own girl, then I try and hold back...let her carve out her own path, and she will be a player of something, I just know....nobody needs to be a *star*.
I've been to so many stage groups/ music groups with my girl...all those sad, hopeful parents thinking their kid was the SPECIAL ONE....extension of their own egos...what they really mean is...
"I had a shite upbringing with few opportunities, so my precious little Megan, or whatever, is going to be successful if it kills me, so she's going to stick at these lessons if it kills her"
......Which, if not literally, could kill any interest. I'm on her case (I hope!) just some of the time.
Playing the stuff is just such a great skill to be in possession of...but I do think a solid grounding of going through the piano/violin/flute grades is no bad thing, and a household environment where various musical instruments are common currency, and where whatever musical T'ing is always on the agenda..well, she doesn't have much choice...ie she's surrounded by music...so she'll arrive at my stage quicker than me. From then on whatever.
Blu, if you feel this is a good place to give out your annoyance about all those kindsa people putting you under pressure when they've no right to, go right ahead. This is OUR space. This is where we talk our stuff. No blushing, just do it, girl.
My idea of starting up a thread to do with age was just fun...just say whatever you want...
Danny.
# Posted on May 23rd 2003 by Rudall the time
Blu-May I just add...
BluF
The whole point of this thing we do.....
is.
to.
ENJOY playing!!!
Just keep on remembering that fact, an' ye'll last till yer 99!.....Dare I guess!.. that'll be in 2088?
Whey! - if Fergus, ma wee boy, gets interested, he might be passing on tunes in AD2102...
we need to start serious planning...
Hmmmm.
Danny....hhhhm....
# Posted on May 23rd 2003 by Rudall the time
Re: Musicians and Age
This discussion reminds me of a discussion with my brother several years ago who is a professional part-time musician along the lines of jazz piano or whatever, and was bemoaning the fact he did not learn classical piano when he was a lad. But he plays heaps now (since 12 when he started his first bankd). Not long after I met an Irishman who studied classical piano from age 7 and stopped abruptly at 16, took up lots of ITM instruments and sang pretty well too and scarcely plays a note now. So the grass just grows where it will and the past is gone....
# Posted on May 23rd 2003 by stewardy
Re: Musicians and Age
its not how long you play but how much you play and how much you play is how much you want to play but at the end of the day youv'e just got to play because the music is so special it has to be played.
buzz.
# Posted on May 23rd 2003 by buzz
Re: Musicians and Age
I started on the harp 7 years ago. And the fiddle 1 1/2 years ago. I am 39. Having a great time. I did have piano lessons for 2 years as a kid, but quit because it was sooo boring. I don't regret quitting. I learned just enough to gain some basic music reading skills and I continued to play the piano--just stuff that I wanted to play, not that dorky stuff from the books they make you play. I had violin/viola for a couple years in grade school, but my parents encouraged me not at all, so eventually I quit that. I thought I wasn't talented enough or something. Turns out talent is worth very little. If you love it and are having fun and you work/play at it for your own joy--you can sometimes leave talent way behind in the dust.
# Posted on May 23rd 2003 by Andee
Re: Musicians and Age
As there is only one moment in tme, the eternal now, I must always be the same age. I can only play a tune once and that's every time I play it. The rest is just a story...and I'm sticking to it.
Dave.
# Posted on May 23rd 2003 by Twiz
Re: Musicians and Age
I have been playing music (guitar, bass and for some years cello, but no ITM) the bigger part of my life (got started around 7 years old, now I'm 20). I started with the fiddle in march this year, and it's starting to sound OK...
Surely I could be GREAT(tm) if I had started with the fiddle at the age of 5 or 6, but I must say that my primary goal is not, have never been and probably never will be, to become a GREAT(tm) musician. I just want to have fun. And I am having more fun than ever!
Also, I believe that having fun can make you, perhaps not a GREAT(tm) musician, but at least a very very good musician people enjoy listening to and playing with. And that's what matters, after all.
# Posted on May 23rd 2003 by Pontus Adefjord
The Love of Music is the thing...
I went to a beginners session a couple of weeks ago, and a gentleman was there who really left a big impression on me (wish I could remember his name!
.
I judged him to be in his late 60s or early 70s. He was there was a friend of a similar age who explained that this gentlmen used to be a very good bodhran player. However since he had suffered from a stroke, he couldn't talk, and his left hand/arm/shoulder was totally useless, although we were assured his mind was still as sharp as ever!
So would we mind if he sat in and played along one-handed on his bongo drum? (A large one that stood on the floor and didn't need to be held).
As a beginners group we welcome anyone who wants to have a go and join in and we were happy to have him.
Well with a twinkle in his eye and a shy smile, this gentleman could certainly play one-handed very well, and definitely added to the session, never missing a beat! He obviously loved the music and the company as much as the rest of us, and nothing, not even a stroke, was going to stop him.
Morgana
(a.k.a. Ptollemy)
# Posted on May 23rd 2003 by Ptollemy
Re: Musicians and Age
Hi Danny,
The Dan in Oxford was probably (almost definitely) Danny Lenehan, fiddle player, who unfortunately isn't with us any longer. He died about five years ago. He played right up until the end and was an enormous source of inspiration to young and old alike. He was very charismatic and very generous with his time, giving lessons before sessions and suchlike. I didn't know him very well, though he was always very nice (and tolerant) towards me. His doctors (I believe he had some sort of skin cancer) were apparently astonished that he wouldn't be parted from his fiddle, even when he was very sick. Two of the most memorable sessions I ever went to were his 'last birthday' session, (I think everyone knew he wouldn't see another), where we had a a great cake, and a Scots Piper turned up and completely deafened me; and the one after he died, when everyone (who could) played a tune on his old fiddle.
Mark
# Posted on May 23rd 2003 by Ottery
Re: Musicians and Age
Danny,
Thanks for the warm welcome you all gave.
Forgot to mention it was a very enjoyable session on Wednesday...except maybe for the recipient of the falling peanut stand.
Dave.
# Posted on May 23rd 2003 by Twiz
Re: Musicians and Age
It has to be the same man. Thanks for that, Mark. I was touched by your testimonial, and your comments match exactly to the guy I met. A sad loss to the music.
Just wish there were more people like that around.
Danny
# Posted on May 23rd 2003 by Rudall the time
Peanuts on the Nut...
Me again.
Dave, thanks and it was great to meet you...yer man, Billy, who received the offending peanut dispenser blow to the head, may have over-reacted (twice!), but he's a lovely guy, coming on great on the mandolin, and I feel I have to stand by him on this occasion.
The true culprit was the drunk who pushed the thing over, then laughed 'cos it landed on Billy, then ran a mile when Billy reared up at him. Micheal the gormless governor didn't help by saying Billy over-reacted, to which Billy over-reacted!
Billy is dead sound and I've got a sneaking admiration for him for scaring that geezer off, cos he (the drunk) is always there, and always a drunken pain, and by his body language one can tell that he thinks we musos are wimps - Billy showed him otherwise. Also he would have been extremely foolish if he had tried that trick on some of the other large lads there - Jack, bigdave, Bill, Aidan!
I reckon some governors just put up with those rough alky types because 'they're good customers' - ie they spend all their wages in there, which means it increases the governors' profits - short-sighted, cos 'normal' people going to a pub don't want to rub shoulders with those kinda people.
How's that for hijacking your own thread!
Now, back to business....
Danny.
# Posted on May 23rd 2003 by Rudall the time
Re: Musicians and Age
I'm forty six, and started playing flute and whistle in my twenties. But I never really got properly focussed on it until about ten years ago (I just used to diddle aimlessly at home). I know I started to late to ever make a great flute player, but I get by well enough to have a lot of fun. I've watched little kids at festivals in Ireland turning out those 'solid tunes', and I think, "wow, what a great foundation for building a life playing music on!" And some of the young players who turn up at the Herschell Arms just blow everyone away. But I console myself with the thought that maybe older players who started late, no matter what their technical limitations, still can contribute something very useful, simply because of the amount of time they've spent absorbing the music.
Anyway, my mate Jerry has a great gameplan for learning the fiddle. He thinks he'll never achieve what he really wants with it, so he plans to secretly practice it until he's about seventy, and then start taking it to sessions. He reckons people will hear him and say, "Listen to that old geezer - he must have been really something in his day!"
# Posted on May 23rd 2003 by Ottery
Re: Musicians and Age
im 16 and have been playin for three years now and i hope i'll still be at it when im 70 something!
# Posted on May 24th 2003 by Hook
Re: Musicians and Age
When I was little I played Acordian (that was almost half my size) for several years and I remember playing in front of a lot of people in a hall. I wasn
# Posted on May 24th 2003 by deblittle
Re: Musicians and Age
Hi everyone, sorry I didn't come back last night, I must have really been steamed from posting!!
......it's just hard being 16 and starting from scratch on something.....I get the comments all the time.....grrrrrrr......MUST.......GET.......INVISIBLE......WALL..... 
I'm 16, and I know I'm a beginner, and I know it will take time time, but I hate it when people tell me that they don't understand why I can't play as well as the 5 year old across from me at a pub, etc.
You all have made me feel much better
But is that why I get the comments???.....because some other parents are *forcing* their kids to play???.....am I missing something?? *blush*
# Posted on May 24th 2003 by BluFiddle
Re: Musicians and Age
No...you probably get comments, Karen, because you look like someone they don't have to be afraid of talking to.
So that's good, right?
Keeping in mind that this is coming from an AR perfectionist (well, about some things, certainly not my housekeeping), it doesn't do to stress out and worry too much about exactly how "good" you're going to get at this stuff. Much better to set your sights on a goal -- any goal -- and then try to choose the most enjoyable and fun route to get there in your own damn good time.
Personally, my own goal is to be good enough to be able to sit in on any but the real top level sessions and not feel like I'm making anyone (ie: one of the "good" players) not want to play because I play too poorly. Am I there yet? Nope. But I'm having a lot of fun anyway, and I figure I'll get there sooner or later if I keep working at it.
Oddly enough, even with all that, I once had someone comment to me that I was "one of the big boys" at a local session. I nearly fell off the stool (first from shock, then from laughing. Then I nearly cried because of what it meant about our local ITM scene here in Denver.) So keep in mind that we're often our own worst critics and our own best reality checks, all at the same time. You just have to know which one you're functioning as at the time.
zls
# Posted on May 24th 2003 by Zina Lee
Re: Musicians and Age
Hey Blu--it's hard being 16. Period. I remember. Just think how great you'll be when you are the age most of us "older" folks are!
And not all of those kids are enjoying themselves the way you are. Love (and lots of practicing/playing) for the music can take you really, really far! Trust me on this one, Karen.
# Posted on May 24th 2003 by Andee
Re: Musicians and Age
LOL -- by the way, I don't want to be a downer, but it's not just being 16. Being any age is difficult, period. It's just that "difficult" keeps changing definitions on you. I still remember my shock when I finally figured out that the big secret is that nobody ever feels "grown up" -- there's never a magic moment when suddenly you can handle everything that life throws at you with aplomb, and there's always going to be someone smarter, more mature, and more grown up than you. (Sometimes they're 16.)
zls
# Posted on May 24th 2003 by Zina Lee
Re: Musicians and Age
Oh, Zina--I've been *waiting* for when I feel grown up. I had suspicions that that time may not come. Now I know for sure....
# Posted on May 24th 2003 by Andee
Re: Musicians and Age
I
# Posted on May 24th 2003 by deblittle
Re: Musicians and Age
I'm 53 and have played recorder since I was 8, clarinet at 10, guitar at 15. For two years now I've been playing whistle. It wasn't long into the whistle that I was asked to perform for a cancer Walk-a-Thon fundraiser by a friend of mine who is a cancer survivor. I had to think twice, but I worked hard on some tunes I already knew, and worked up a couple of new ones from Kevin Crawford's In Good Company CD. The event was held in the evening in the park here in Taos, New Mexico. I played pretty well, and when I opened my eyes (I frequently play with my eyes closed) a whole squad of children, and some adults, were dancing to the music. I got a number of compliments as to the ethereal nature of the tunes wafting through the night air.
I realize more and more that there are any number of venues where a simple and sincere performance is appreciated. In this case, if I had not played, no one else would have.
It's never too late to start anything. Don't beat yourself up for not having started sooner and use that energy to start NOW.
My brother went to chiropractor school at the age of 40 and by 45 was Dr. Knox! An aunt of ours who thought he was dumb said "He can't do that!". Too late auntie, he did it.
Chris
# Posted on May 24th 2003 by unique
Re: Musicians and Age
I'm 16. I've been playing fiddle for about 5/6 years and sometimes I still feel like a beginner. I've being playing piano for 2 years and I love it. I'm pretty ok on piano (If I may say so myself) and I love it. They aren't that many piano players round and I want to make a difference to Irish traditional piano playing. I sometimes feel too old to be still learning when I hear some of the younger players!! but they started learning before me and I'll never stop learning Irish music because it's a continous maturity of a tradition. It will keep on changing so I'll be learning til I die!
Carrie*
# Posted on May 24th 2003 by carrie
Re: Musicians and Age
Ottery, your mate Jerry's on to something with that gameplan! Unfortunately, I wouldn't be able to get away with it in Bristol because I've been taking my fiddle to sessions for the last couple of years, so they know what I'm like (btw, I've got a few years to go before I reach 70!). Now if I were to move to a different part of the country that might be different ...
Trevor
# Posted on May 24th 2003 by Trevor Jennings
Re: Musicians and Age
From reading the discussions on this site it seems absolutely crucial that you start at an early age if you want to be any good at Aye tee emm. Someone said learn 4 tunes really well in your first year. So 10 years later you will have 40 solid tunes under your belt. By the time you get the 500 required to go down the local session you'll be err.... quite a bit older. Unfortunatley I wasted my youth learing Black sabbath and deep purple riffs. As far as ITM goes I am nearly 2 and half years old and still waiting for my hair to grow in
# Posted on May 24th 2003 by bouzyboy
Re: Musicians and Age
Trevor, you should be careful when using the word "mate" when there are Americans around - they think it means "sexual partner"
# Posted on May 24th 2003 by Dr. Dow
Re: Musicians and Age
Mark, ah yes. Thanks. Actually, I was using Ottery's word, which as you know is common UK usage for a fairly close friend, with no implied sexual connotations. The old problem of two countries divided by a common language!
Trevor
# Posted on May 24th 2003 by Trevor Jennings
Musicians and Age
The double-cd set of Michael Gorman's recordings ("The Sligo Champion" Topic Records TSCD525D) cover his fiddle playing from 1951 to 1968 (he died in 1970 aged 75) and show how someone's fiddle playing can change with the progression into old age. The musicianship still remains, though. The cd set includes a detailed and extensive musical biography of Michael Gorman.
Trevor
# Posted on May 24th 2003 by Trevor Jennings
Re: Musicians and Age
I don't think it's ever to late to learn something - playing an instrument, or anything else. Well OK, perhaps you shouldn't start karate in your 90s...
I'm 37 and I've been learning the whistle with moderate, if patchy, application, for about a year. I did play a bit in my late teens and twenties, just picked up a small repertoire of tunes by ear but never applied myself or got a lesson, sadly. If I'd learnt to do rolls and stuff, back then, I might have progressed much further and got more serious about it. However, I was too lacking in confidence, and put down the whistle for ten years while I went other routes, learned to sing, and played bass in a rock band. Now I'm back playing the whistle again, I do regret ever stopping - but the difference is that now, I can see that if you put in the time, and you get the help you need, you progress. Nothing mysterious about it. Back then, I thought there was some magic secret to it, which I just couldn't find. (Turns out to be rolls, cuts and practice.)
Weirdly, in my twenties I did have a defeatist attitude that I was already too old. Now, nearly 40, I'm less prejudiced. I think there's a tendency, when you're young, to think that nothing counts unless you can do it right away. If someone had told me when I was 18 (and they probably did) that I could expect to play whistle reasonably well in 2 or 3 years, that would have sounded like forever. Now, it's a cheeringly close prospect.
Yes, you are stiffer both mentally and physically as you age, and it takes longer to learn. But other qualities make up for it; more perseverance, a more realistic long-term view, more confidence... more experience of how to learn things... the wisdom to enjoy the journey and not fixate so wistfully on the destination.
My Grandma is learning Spanish, in her eighties. She may never gain the confidence to speak it with ease - it's her first other language - but she can read and write it pretty well and derives an enormous amount of pleasure from it. In fact, she got her GCSE last year! (For you non-Brits, that's the exam you'd normally take aged about 16).
I went to see a great photographic exhibition this week, of prints by the Victorian photographer Julia Margaret Cameron. She started taking photographs when she was 48 years old - and is still revered today for her remarkable eye as well as her technical abilities.
One day, if I ever have the time, I might set up a website dedicated to late-developers! Society is so bedazzled by youth; I think we should rise up, brothers and sisters, and fight the notion that from middle-age onwards, the game is basically up.
Oh, and by the way, I'm now starting to play more at sessions, finding I know new tunes every week, and gradually losing the habit of crouching in the darkest corner. Still can't do my rolls, though...
# Posted on May 24th 2003 by Nell
Re: Musicians and Age
Good lass yersell, Helen - 37? - sure, you don't look a day over 50! - just joking, pal, I would have knocked a decade off 37 if you hadn't said. I like the stuff you were saying - also there's that American painter, Grandma Moses, who didn't start painting till she was 60, I think, then kept it up till she was 90! One of you Yanks correct me if I'm wrong, here. Rembrandt was yer man, who did self portraits, from when he was a young trooper all the way though to when he was an old geezer...every picture tells a story? nope, in this case it was 100 pictures telling one story! and as he got older the paintings shewed more depth and subtlety.
If I were you, just keep practicing and going to the sessions (which you are doing). You may think I'm a mad egotistical flutist (which is true) but I've always got one ear cocked on what else is going on at sessions, and your whistling is excellent for 1 year.
Had a great night (and early morning!) over at Cheer na Nog earlier today(!), with Foxy and Co. - great bunch of skins. Not one of the main dudes with less than 3 decades under their belt. Heading up to Porterhouse, then the Woodman - ye can tell the fambly's away, can't you...sorry for rambling.
Hey Trevor, I met someone last night who knows you! A lady, mature lady shall we say, originally from the north of Ireland, who plays a nice bit of bodhr
# Posted on May 25th 2003 by Rudall the time
Re: Musicians and Age
I've a friend in our village who came to a party a couple of weeks ago at which he heard me play the whistle. He was quite taken with it (don't ask why - I'm not much of a whistle player, I tend to either get overexcited and achieve a horribly harsh 'almost overblown' sound or I forget to breathe and go blue and drop off my twig).
Anyway, a couple of days ago I got a phone call in the middle of the afternoon. It was the aforementioned obsessive person, Pete. "Mark," he says, "I'm in Hickeys (Music shop in Reading), What sort of whistle should I get?"
I told him to get a D Generation.
"Can I come round so you can show me what to do, just to get me off the ground?"
"Err, yes. When do you you want to come?"
"Are you doing anything tonight?"
"Err no, though I won't have finished work and had tea before 8.30."
At 8.30 and one second, the doorbell went. It was Pete with his whistle and a four pack of The Black stuff as 'payment' (at least he has some manners!).
I sat him down and we went through the basic mechanics of lifting your fingers up and down in order, coordinated tonguing, and the rudiments of playing a scale. It took a good hour and a half to get him to be able to even slowly finger the two octaves, so I sent him off to practise that, and told him to come back in a couple of weeks, and that in the meantime I'd find him a decent tutor book.
So it should be interesting, in the context of many of the posts above, to see how (if) he gets on. He's 47 years old. Super keen, and completely clueless (He's never played ANY instrument).
Perhaps a rare example of a perfect 'control sample'... I'll keep youse all posted!
# Posted on May 25th 2003 by Ottery
Re: Musicians and Age
Do, ottery dear, that should be fun to track! We'll take Pete on as our pet project, shall we?
Funny thing, you know, as we get more and more members who know each other. Sometimes I've found that getting to re-know your mates (we don't always use the word as a "sexual partner", Mark, although most often, yes) online has the weirdest side effect. As they post their thoughts that one would not normally burst out with at a session, you actually discover sides and aspects of them that you never dreamed existed...
I think it was me who told the story on Joan Hanrahan saying that if a student sticks with four tunes and gets them down really well that year, she'll be able to teach them almost everything they need to know about playing this stuff with those four tunes. But you don't stick at the four in the following years, y'see, bouzy. Personally, I think about 20 tunes the first year is plenty to be getting on with, low end 10 tunes, I'd think.
After that, the sky (and your motivation level) is the limit.
My husband has been trying to settle on the instrument he wants to play. So far he's gone through guitar, whistle, pipes (using a borrowed practise set), and has now seemingly settled on bouzouki. As usual in these things, he asked me to help him learn some of this stuff, and now he doesn't necessarily trust what I tell him. "Slow down!" I yelled yesterday from painting the stairs. "But I'm working on *insert whatever here*", he says in the living room. "You'll get over *insert whatever here* much faster if you play slower," I insist. No answer as he charges on playing far too fast for good music. Fair play, though, he's started finally breaking trouble phrases down and using them as drills for his fingers, and now sometimes he even slows down for about one rep before speeding up again to too fast...
I remember giving my parents similar problems.
zls
# Posted on May 25th 2003 by Zina Lee
Re: Musicians and Age
I haven't been around in ITM long enough to have met all that many old players; agewise, I'm certainly in the upper quartile. But in the classical orchestras I play in there are many musicians who have apparently been playing since time began. I can think of several who are still playing, well into their 70's and 80's. A lady doctor, Beryl Corner, in my chamber orchestra is in her 90's and still playing the violin. She was a consultant before I was born in 1938, and still does consultancy work. The music world in general seems to be littered with musicians working into advanced old age, as are artists, actors, writers and academics in other fields.
As regards learning, it is certainly a different process for the older person. Apparently slower, maybe, but this is offset by experience, the ability to see connections that wouldn't always be obvious to the younger learner, and greater efficiency in the learning process. When I retired I took the opportunity to attend extra-mural classes in the classics run by a subsidiary of Clifton College in Bristol for the mature student. I wanted to bring my school Latin back up to speed and also to learn Greek, which I never had the opportunity to learn. There were 6 or 7 of us in the two classes, ages ranging from mid-50's up to a lady of about 90. Over two years our tutor took us up to GCSE level in grammar and vocabulary, with a fair amount of broad-spectrum classical and post-classical reading on the way. All we would need to do, she said, to get good passes at GCSE, if we wished to go that route, would be to work on the appropriate set books.
When it comes to a mature person learning a musical instrument, many will have had some sort of musical instrument training in childhood. Even if this is apparently forgotten, some of the motor and mental skills are still lurking and can be enticed back into activity. If someone already plays an instrument well then active motor and mental skills can transfer fairly readily to a new instrument, especially if the two instruments are from the same family. At the other end of the spectrum the progress of Ottery's "control sample" should be very interesting.
Trevor
# Posted on May 25th 2003 by Trevor Jennings
Re: Musicians and Age
Danny, if it's the bodhr
# Posted on May 25th 2003 by Trevor Jennings
Re: Musicians and Age
Billy Moran, box player extraordinaire at the Quiet Man sessions in Melbourne OZ must be pushing 80+ (Whaddaya say Dow?) When I was chatting with him a month or two ago he was telling me mate (it's an ozzie 'friend', a la the pommie vernacular) that he knows his dad and asked after his health. Sadly me mate's dad isn't travelling too well and he relayed this to Billy, who replied that he reckons its all the good music in his life that keeps himself so sprightly.
) I finally rebelled and took up a "real" instrument after about 7 years.
Me, I'm 42 and been playing guitar since I was 13. Got into trad stuff playing in an Aussie bush band (trad tunes for set dancing) about 20 years back and recently revitalised by playing in a duo and learning a bit of mando with me mate on the fiddle. (He's 45 and picked fiddle up about four years ago after many years on guitar). Mind you, I was one of those 6 - 7 year olds whose parents "encouraged" them to play music. In my case it was the recorder and I was good, but hated it. (I had good taste even then
# Posted on May 25th 2003 by GerryTh
Re: Musicians and Age
Actually I've never been to the Quiet Man session - the only one I've been to in Melbs is the Dan, and only once, so I don't think I've even met Billy...
# Posted on May 25th 2003 by Dr. Dow
Re: Musicians and Age
He's a lovelly bloke and knows more tunes than almost anyone I've ever met. The pub's got a great atmosphere and the lady publican clearly loves hosting the session. You'll have to try and get there (and I'll have to try and get there again!)
# Posted on May 25th 2003 by GerryTh
Re: Musicians and Age
I can never understand why any Australians would ever be wanting to play Irish music. Australia is the most wonderful brilliant country I have ever been to, and I wish dearly that I could live there, so why would they need to sit about in sessions, doing jigs and reels, when they've got the rest of Oz to look at.
I've been all over Europe, USA, most of central and S. Amreica, and so on, but Australia is one unforgettable place. I can't see ozzies saying the same about Catford.
Best wishes to all antipodean practitioners of the Faith, and of course, please be aware that I'm on the wind-up, only 'cos I'm so JJealous of your once-in-the-lifetime-of-a-species golden opportunity to have a good life!
Danny.
# Posted on May 25th 2003 by Rudall the time
Re: Musicians and Age
Sheesh! That's a mighty hefty rap for Oz Danny. Mind you, having travelled pretty extensively meself in years gone by, I agree it's pretty good down here
However, we can't spend ALL our lives beating Pomms at cricket, gallivanting around on the beach and complaining about our government's brown-nosing George Bush! There's just something so energetic and exciting about The Music that I got hooked from the first time I heard it (Planxty!). And the Craic at sessions is usually bloody brilliant. That, plus the fact that we are full of ex-pat Paddies, pomms and Jocks have given rise to a really strong ITM / trad folk scene. If you ever make it back Danny (or others) don't forget to let me know.
# Posted on May 25th 2003 by GerryTh
PS
Besides, once you've drunk Guinness at an Irish session, it never tastes as good in other settings
# Posted on May 25th 2003 by GerryTh
Re: Musicians and Age
I've come to this thread late and have just skimmed through it, so forgive me if I'm re-iterating what somebody else has already said. Like many people here, I often find myself using my relatively late start - I first picked up both mandolin and tin whistle at about 19 or 20 years of age, having had no previous background in traditional music - as an excuse for not being as good a musician as I would like to be. But, let's face it, being brought up in a middle-class Jewish family in one of the leafier parts of West London, there was little chance of my being offered the opportunity to learn Irish tradtional music before I was of an age when I could make my own decisions.
In fact, I was given ample opportunity to learn music as a child. I started piano lessons aged 6, but I was too headstrong to make any real progress in classical music. I hated practising, and I didn't see the point in reading music and playing finger exercises, when I could get far more enjoyment out of playing what I wanted to play. One of my regrets is that I turned down a recommendation by my school music teacher, when I was 8 or 9, that I take up the violin - I didn't see the point in an instrument which couldn't have - or, at least, didn't lend itself to having - chords played on it. So I chose the guitar, which I gave up after a couple of months as it was too much of a strain on my diminutive hands (I was at a slight disadvantage in that the 3/4-size guitar that my father had bought from a work colleague happened to be a steel-strung instrument - not ideal for tender 8-year-old fingers) - and it involved too much practice for my liking.
My point is, had I been born into the Egan family instead of the Eger family, my maternal grandfather had been a sean-n
# Posted on May 25th 2003 by CreadurMawnOrganig
To all who were involved in the Age discussion
Hey All! I didn't mean to sound all big headed in the "age" discussion. When I posted my age in 3rd person, I reliazed that none of you would probably know who I was. I had already posted my age so I went bak down to the box and wrote "that's me". As soon as I hit "post" emily's comment came up about her cousin. So mine was right after hers instead of telling you all that AJ was me.
Later I was reading over the discussion agian and I saw what had happened and noticed it was a bit arrogant.
So I was just clearing up so you didn't think too poorly of me!
AJ
# Posted on May 26th 2003 by berserker
Re: To all who were involved in the Age discussion
I don't know...it's not working for me. I think he's a jerk. Anybody else?
# Posted on May 26th 2003 by cuchulain54
Re: To all who were involved in the Age discussion
that's the lsat time i cut your lawn!!!!!!
# Posted on May 26th 2003 by berserker
Re: Musicians and Age
I started on Tonette (like a recorder) in 5th grade, 10 yrs old. Then saxophone in 6th thru 12 and then 4 years as a USNavy musician and picked up clarinet. Discharged after 4 years in 1953 and stopped playing until 1984 when I picked up a recorder and gradually learned reels and jigs for contra dancing. Went to whistle after about 3 years and have been playing at jams, dances and concerts since then. Also picked up harmonica and bodhran over the years and really enjoy playing Irish and Scots music, old-time apalachian (with Celtic roots) along with jazz and dance music on sax which I re-started in 1993 and played since in two 18 piece and a 10 piece dance band plus a community concert band. I'm 71+ and enjoying many types of music ... classical, early jazz, dixieland, Celtic, etc. I think that it keeps me feeling young and I'm hoping for another 10-20 years!
I've really enjoyed reading all of the above responses from all ages! I know several really young but excellent musicians and heard many in Scotland in 1988. I'm so pleased to have 'discovered' Celtic music late in life but have no regrets about trying to learn it when my fingers and reactions have slowed a bit. I've even tried the bagpipes for a couple of years until I developed tendonitis in my left shoulder and had to take it easy for a while. I plan to start up the pipes again soon! Keep up the wonderful comments about music and sessions! Bill
# Posted on May 26th 2003 by whistlerhm
Re: To all who were involved in the Age discussion
LOL!
AJ if there's anyone here with terribly poor manners, it's me! Maybe I can learn a thing or to from YOU when we get together to play some tunes. Got any favorites or things you're working on?
# Posted on May 26th 2003 by emily_bmore
Re: To all who were involved in the Age discussion
AJ, I think it's great that you spend your precious time cutting your dad's lawn. I really think he should be letting you play music instead, and you should tell him so from me.
# Posted on May 26th 2003 by Dr. Dow
Re: Musicians and Age
LOL @ David's post. You know, the thing about trad music is that it's really creative. I started out on classical piano and played for years. I never actually officially gave up, but I started being a backpacker and travelling the world, and of course I couldn't take a piano with me. Also, like David, I could never see the point of doing finger exercises that were boring-sounding, and always having to read music. I love trad because every tune is a sort of finger exercise in itself; you can play it at different speeds and it will still sound nice, and the more you play tunes, the better your technique becomes because they are full of arpeggios and scales. But the main thing are the social and creative aspects. Playing piano was all about enjoying improvising and playing my favourite pieces at home, and then crapping myself when I had a lesson and hadn't practised what I was supposed to have practised, for my own good, or whatever. With trad, I can be as good or as crap as I wish - it's all down to how much work I put in. I can learn as many or as few tunes as I wish. I can learn the tunes I like and leave the ones I don't. When I go to a session, it's not like "I have to play this particular tune in such-and-such a style because that's what's expected of me", it's about "ooh, I've just thought of a really nice tune that I want to play", or "wow that tune you're playing is great - I haven't played it in ages. Let's all play it". And the whole time you can be having a drink and enjoying yourself. And you can mess about with ornamentation and harmonies to a certain extent, so it's more creative than a classical ensemble in that sense, where you've all decided roughly what the dynamics are going to be beforehand. I'm not knocking classical music, and I shouldn't even be trying to compare them, because they're such different beasts, but David's post set me off.
# Posted on May 26th 2003 by Dr. Dow
Re: To all who were involved in the Age discussion
hehehehe... Not to worry, AJ. Don't go paying attention to Mark, he's obviously not a good role model for any young'un... *snort*
Zina
# Posted on May 26th 2003 by Zina Lee
*chewing on leather strap*
must..... remain...... civil....... must...... remain..... civil.....
# Posted on May 26th 2003 by emily_bmore
Re: To all who were involved in the Age discussion
Interesting you chose leather, Em... *snicker* Into beef jerky?
# Posted on May 26th 2003 by Zina Lee
Re: To all who were involved in the Age discussion
must! ... remain!... civil!!!!
# Posted on May 26th 2003 by emily_bmore
Re: To all who were involved in the Age discussion
LOL
# Posted on May 26th 2003 by Zina Lee
Re: To all who were involved in the Age discussion
Speeking of lawn i just got done cutting it! that has to be the biggest waste of time known to man!!!!!!!!!!!!
# Posted on May 26th 2003 by berserker
Emily,
One of my favorite tunes is "The Roaring Bar Maid", that one is posted in the sessions. Another favorite would be"Jenny's Chickens".
you probably know one of those there both great tunes!
AJ
# Posted on May 26th 2003 by berserker
Re: To all who were involved in the Age discussion
My favourite lawn is an cruisc
# Posted on May 26th 2003 by Rudall the time
Re: Musicians and Age
I wouldn't knock classical, either, or jazz, latin, quality rock, Indian, African, and so on, but what amuses me is a distinct mentality among certain classical people, that their stuff is actually "superior" to ours! It's like a joke, & they just don't see the punchline... they just don't get it.
Their loss.
Danny.
# Posted on May 26th 2003 by Rudall the time
Re: To all who were involved in the Age discussion
Shoot AJ, you're gonna show me up & then some! I've been meaning to learn Jennie's Chickens, it's been sitting in my tune book for ages. Is the setting on here close enough to yours? If so, I shall try to manage it for the weekend, but I can't guarantee anything! Actually it would be even cooler if you could just teach it to me directly! Would you be up for that?
Is your dad still making you cut the lawn with scissors, btw?
# Posted on May 26th 2003 by emily_bmore
Re: To all who were involved in the Age discussion
When he proves he can be trusted with nail clippers, then he graduates to scissors.
# Posted on May 26th 2003 by cuchulain54
Re: To all who were involved in the Age discussion
He can use a lawn mower, but not nail clippers?!
# Posted on May 26th 2003 by Zina Lee
Re: To all who were involved in the Age discussion
Zina: see Emily's post about cutting the lawn with scissors.
# Posted on May 26th 2003 by cuchulain54
Re: To all who were involved in the Age discussion
Poor AJ, in full protective body gear down on hands & knees cutting the grass with nail clippers, & on a national holiday too! What's that gonna do to his bowing arm, for pete's sake?? Have a little compassion, cuch!! I need to learn Jennie's Chickens!
# Posted on May 26th 2003 by emily_bmore
Re: To all who were involved in the Age discussion
I'll have him sing it to you in ABC format.That's the punishment he gets for claiming to be your pipes-playing cousin.
# Posted on May 26th 2003 by cuchulain54
Re: To all who were involved in the Age discussion
You are ruthless!!!
But OK, that sounds fine. Sorry AJ, I tried.
# Posted on May 26th 2003 by emily_bmore
Re: Musicians and Age
lol
My teacher told me that one of her classical friends told her that Fiddlers are different from classical players because they play out of tune!!!.....
....so maybe being a beginner isn't so bad.....hehehe
# Posted on May 26th 2003 by BluFiddle
Re: To all who were involved in the Age discussion
This is the most ridiculous thread ever. Cutting lawns with nail clippers indeed! Welcome to inconsequential postinghood AJ (as I think Zina once put it, or was it "posthood"?)
# Posted on May 26th 2003 by Dr. Dow
Re: To all who were involved in the Age discussion
Zina, LOL at your post ("He can use a lawnmower...") - maybe it didn't work well on-screen
# Posted on May 26th 2003 by Dr. Dow
Re: Musicians and Age
AJ isn't going to be Lawnmower Man, is he?
Trevor
# Posted on May 27th 2003 by Trevor Jennings
Re: Musicians and Age
Most ridiculous? Oh yeah Mr Crocodile Dundee, I bet between using your boomerang to bring down wild marsupials & barfing over your balcony in the untamed wilderness, you are a real bastion of sobriety.
Shoot, I forgot to be civil, darnit!
*ahem* That is to say, you are certainly correct Dubg. Please accept my apologies for meandering into unnecessary frivolity. Let me steer the conversation back to the Music....
Speaking of which, I did learn Roaring Barmaid last night, AJ, that tune kicks butt! Or as Jeremy says, it's so addictive it should come with a health warning. I actually have the B part no problem, it's the A part I need to slow down with the rolls a bit, but otherwise, awesome!!!
# Posted on May 27th 2003 by emily_bmore
Re: Musicians and Age
WOW! you guys are sure giving my dad lots credit. up until last year he use to make me use safety scissors!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! they can't even cut paper!!
Emily, what tunes do you recomend that i worl up for the weekend????? hopefully i won't know know them, this will make learn more tune.
# Posted on May 27th 2003 by berserker
When i grow up I am gonna mowe lawn!!!!!
# Posted on May 27th 2003 by berserker
Re: Musicians and Age
Well you've got that tune list I sent to your dad, he flagged a good #! Star of Munster & My Love is in America are 2 reels I really like & seem to be session standards, but I'm sure we'll have a great time no matter what we play!
# Posted on May 27th 2003 by emily_bmore
Re: Musicians and Age
I think becoming good at an instrument is mainly about determination and having a total belief in yourself that you can and will learn.A good pair of ears and a retentive memory helps to speed the learning process up but without determined application you will never get anywhere regardless of how old you are.
# Posted on May 27th 2003 by pict
Re: Musicians and Age
I really like what you said, does that mean I shouldn't listen when people say that musicians who started at age 5 have a larger advantage over me???...I know they have more under their belt, but does that leave all the other people who didn't start earlier in trouble??....eeek! confused, again *blush*
# Posted on May 28th 2003 by BluFiddle
Re: Musicians and Age
Blu,
Think of the differences between when you were 5, & the young lady you are now becoming. All those years shaped who you are NOW, why you love the Music NOW. Maybe some of those 5 year olds will resent having a fiddle forced into their hands at such a young age (as some rebel against classical piano lessons or such), & these kids may come to find a true love for jazz, or techno or Moravian nose flute tunes, or possibly radical performance art, or god forbid, bungee jumping. You can't change the past, just always remember it has lead you up to the person you are NOW! If you are ever in doubt, pretend you are 21 years old, or 30 or 50, or 90, or 110! Then you will be able to say for the rest of your life, I"m so glad I started when I was 15! You are choosing this music as a part of your adult personality, out of free will, out of love. You can't argue with love, can you?
Have faith in yourself, K, & walk your path in beauty, as the Navajo say! B/c you've chosen a great path that can only lead you to happiness, fun & meeting lots of cool ppl, like US! hahahahahaha! woooooo uh forget that last part if it means you're going to start taking up bungee jumping.
All the best,
Emily
# Posted on May 28th 2003 by emily_bmore