I know it’s pure stupidity on my part, but Paddy Moloney’s personality – the relentless name-dropping and what I perceive to be his proprietorial attitude to the band – sometimes turns me off the The Chieftains. But today, for the first time in ages, I listened to The Foxhunt and and was moved to tears by the brilliance of what I assume is his arrangement, the band’s technical dexterity and, most of all, the emotions it evoked. For about five minutes at 11.45, this St Patrick’s Day in Portlaoise, 53 N, 7W, Paddy Moloney was a flawless genius.
Yes it is a work of genius, on that we can agree, on the other hand I disagree with you about Paddy Maloney (something we'll just have to live with!) but that's not the point.
Everybody should be lucky enough at least once in their lives to have maybe a 'perfect five minutes' as a performer. It is something for them to remember and something to be, hopefully, remembered by a listener at that time and perhaps to have the memory savoured.
To have it 'captured' recorded for posterity is a rare happenstance.
I know I'm no body's genius but I think I can claim I've had mine and it still gives a warm feeling to remember it. Nobody recorded 'my' performance but I don't care, doesn't matter. What does matter was the response I had from the audience and that is what I'll remember.
Ayone else out there understand or able to share a thought on this idea?
I appreciate what he's done with the Chieftains over the decades, but I've had a problem with the taste, or lack of it to my way of thinking, he's sometimes shown. Not only in terms of some of the awful collaborations he's engineered but also with some of the fussy arrangements of their music. However, it is a question of personal taste, and I'm the first to admit that all their stuff is executed with wonderful spirit and panache. He has got a big ego, but maybe such a disparate and ever-changing bunch of blokes needed one of them at the helm.
Totally agree with you, John Knoss. To be in the presence of greatness, however fleeting, and to feel one of those lump in the throat moments, is a rare privilege. I was lucky enough to experience one such miracle during Andy Irvine's performance of The Highwayman last Friday night.
Llig, I think that particular 'fox' got away that day or Paddy would have had to buy another set. Some might say shame, then again others, tomorrow's another day....how say you?
To keep something together as long as the Chieftains for forty odd years, someone has to be proprietary. And Paddy Maloney certainly is a great player. I have a CD of him with another player without the Chieftains. He is an amazing soloist.
I don't know if its a taste issue that someone mentioned. Maybe more his willingness to take risks on how effective his cross-over recordings is. There has been alot of cross-over stuff. Some better than others. Lunasa comes to mind. Some really nice stuff...some leaves one scratching their had and asking 'Why did they do that?'
Then there is that overproduced stuff coming out. Strange contrasts. We say the Chieftains in Chicago a couple of weeks ago. Wonderful show. Maybe a bit heavy on Water from the Well.
Then last night something called 'Celtic Thunder'. Andrew Lloyd Weber with bodhrans and whistles.
My uncle lived on the same road as Paddy as kids. He said the lads used to slag him off when he was carrying his pipes down the road. Talk about karma. Don't you just love it!!
Paddy's a musical entrepreneur and has been ever since he played in skiffle groups in the 1950s.
He does not 'have full control of the band' (in a legalistic way), but he certainly does arrange its touring and recording schedules, and (to be absolutely fair to him) does take on a remarkable programme of promotional events - and always has. The Chieftains do not nowadays exist as a band. Paddy will set up tour dates and, once established, will only then come back to Matt, Seán or Kevin (the three remaining other members) and determine whether they're available to play the gigs he's arranged. Sometimes they are and sometimes they're not and, in the latter case, he'll arrange replacements.
I suppose the upshot is that nowadays it's just impossible to predict who'll actually be playing at a Chieftains gig, apart from Paddy himself.
In my opinion Paddy Maloney has probably done more than any other individual for Irish music over the past 40 years. He has raised the profile of the music through years of hard work. He's done it despite, I'm sure, knowing that he would be criticized for keeping his hand firmly on the rudder and for collaborations that many would find unsuitable. Like it or not these collaborations have massively increased the world wide interest in Irish music. Just because he has made a success of his life doesn't mean it should be forgotten what he has contributed.
It seems to me that great players who dare to try anything other than the pure drop are fair game in some circles, despite what they may do in a more trad format. The most rediculous example at the moment is the guys who knock bands like Lunasa. Anyone who really thinks they are not good for trad should get out more. I'm sure the Bothy Band and De Dannan had their knockers (no, not that kind) at the time, but who dares criticize them now?
I kind of agree with bogman, but I must say I couldn't get through the "authorized biography" of the Chieftans that really was a relentless collection of name-dropping on Paddy's behalf.
I think bands like Lunasa have got a long way to go before they're worthy of being mentioned in the same breath as the Chieftains. Sort of like T. Dan Quayle vs. JFK.
grego, having met up recently with a 'name' from the 'revival music scene' (whether you like the term or not) and talking with them about 'old times' and 'when I saw you last', most performing musicians knew and had performed on stage at some time, either together or on the same bill. Paddy Maloney would be no exception, even I have had that particular honour of playing on stage with the Chieftans. (bet he doesn't remember me though or even has the faintest clue as to when or where!). For example, have a listen to Diana Ross talking about her time at Tamla Motown, when and how she started as a performer; it's exactly the same, all the names, all the venues etc. You may not like it, but that's the way it is in genre music. Maloney's particular claim is he has managed to inveigle as many different performers from as many different genre to actually perform and record with him and the band. Good luck to him.
If you're good enough the opportunities will que up for you, though I'd wonder about taking the White House gig.
I'm a big fan of the Chieftain as a self contained group minus the guests. Unfortunately the collaborations I like the least are usually with artists I really like a lot... the Stones, Mark Knofler and (it kills me to say it) Chet Atkins. I agree however that the collaboration have bought Irish music to a lot of folks who otherwise would not have had exposure to it.
As a group though.... I think they are fantastic musicians. I've seen them live three times and I've been blown away by there muscianship and the quality of their arrangements. As a self contained unit when Derek Bell was still alive I don't think too many could play ITM better... In my opinion the Bothy Band is/was one of the few exceptions. Just my two cents worth.
Maybe I should have said 'if you are fashionable enough the opportunities will que up to play for you' Maloney is without doubt a suitably able musician by anyones standards.
I watched that programme about the Chieftains tonight, between gigs.
Maloney run the whole show, but the others went along with it, paid the bills and they could get plenty of "real" traditional as well. That said, the Chieftains introduced ITM to millions, and that cannot be forgetten. The collaborations sometimes went over the top, but personally I love Morrison's version of "Raglan Road" and Sinead O'Connor does the dreaded "Foggy Dew" superbly with them. A bit dramatic, but so was 1916 so perhaps Maloney managed to capture the essence of the piece.
I remember seeing the Chieftains loads of times in the 1970s and they were immense. Bell added something different, and then along came Molloy.
Incidentally on the programme Molloy says the Bothy Band were introducing "rock" rhythms to the music, so there you go.
And Peader Mercier was the best drummer they had, in my humble opinion.
To get back to the original comments about Paddy Maloney's personality and whatnot, yes, he does seem to be a bit egocentric and even rude sometimes, but he's an incredible musician and The Chieftains have provided the world with tons of awesome music! I'm also not a big fan of their collaboration albums but I personally think all their instrumental albums are amazing. I learned to play pennywhistle and Irish flute from listening to them. I agree with molaoch that their version of The Foxhunt is genius (oddly enough, I happened to be listening to it when I came to this discussion page...weird!) I recommend listening to their Pigtown set on the 2nd cd for any fellow woodwind players out there, it's great!
I think it's in the nature of these things that you have someone who has ideas about what hey want, and isn't afraid to do whatever it takes to get them, and others who work well and fit in. I don't suppose it's possible to run a band purely democratically. My experience of playing in bands is that you do need strong ideas, whether that's from one person or a few...
Saw the Chieftans in early 1970s in Sheffield. Afterwards they invited the audience to stop behind for a party - bottles of black stuff appeared - they left their instruments out on the table with an open invitation to anyone who wanted to give them a tune.
I had a tune on MTs anglo.
Random Thought on Paddy Moloney
Random Thought on Paddy Moloney
I know it’s pure stupidity on my part, but Paddy Moloney’s personality – the relentless name-dropping and what I perceive to be his proprietorial attitude to the band – sometimes turns me off the The Chieftains. But today, for the first time in ages, I listened to The Foxhunt and and was moved to tears by the brilliance of what I assume is his arrangement, the band’s technical dexterity and, most of all, the emotions it evoked. For about five minutes at 11.45, this St Patrick’s Day in Portlaoise, 53 N, 7W, Paddy Moloney was a flawless genius.
# Posted on March 17th 2008 by molaoch
Re: Random Thought on Paddy Moloney
it didn't all sound like the fox was dying then?
# Posted on March 17th 2008 by ...
Re: Random Thought on Paddy Moloney
Yes it is a work of genius, on that we can agree, on the other hand I disagree with you about Paddy Maloney (something we'll just have to live with!) but that's not the point.
Everybody should be lucky enough at least once in their lives to have maybe a 'perfect five minutes' as a performer. It is something for them to remember and something to be, hopefully, remembered by a listener at that time and perhaps to have the memory savoured.
To have it 'captured' recorded for posterity is a rare happenstance.
I know I'm no body's genius but I think I can claim I've had mine and it still gives a warm feeling to remember it. Nobody recorded 'my' performance but I don't care, doesn't matter. What does matter was the response I had from the audience and that is what I'll remember.
Ayone else out there understand or able to share a thought on this idea?
# Posted on March 17th 2008 by john knoss
Re: Random Thought on Paddy Moloney
I appreciate what he's done with the Chieftains over the decades, but I've had a problem with the taste, or lack of it to my way of thinking, he's sometimes shown. Not only in terms of some of the awful collaborations he's engineered but also with some of the fussy arrangements of their music. However, it is a question of personal taste, and I'm the first to admit that all their stuff is executed with wonderful spirit and panache. He has got a big ego, but maybe such a disparate and ever-changing bunch of blokes needed one of them at the helm.
# Posted on March 17th 2008 by Steve Shaw
Re: Random Thought on Paddy Moloney
Totally agree with you, John Knoss. To be in the presence of greatness, however fleeting, and to feel one of those lump in the throat moments, is a rare privilege. I was lucky enough to experience one such miracle during Andy Irvine's performance of The Highwayman last Friday night.
# Posted on March 17th 2008 by molaoch
Re: Random Thought on Paddy Moloney
Which CD is the Foxhunt on?
# Posted on March 17th 2008 by bravoq
Re: Random Thought on Paddy Moloney
Llig, I think that particular 'fox' got away that day or Paddy would have had to buy another set. Some might say shame, then again others, tomorrow's another day....how say you?
# Posted on March 17th 2008 by john knoss
Re: Random Thought on Paddy Moloney
bravoq...
Chieftains 2
# Posted on March 17th 2008 by molaoch
Re: Random Thought on Paddy Moloney
To keep something together as long as the Chieftains for forty odd years, someone has to be proprietary. And Paddy Maloney certainly is a great player. I have a CD of him with another player without the Chieftains. He is an amazing soloist.
I don't know if its a taste issue that someone mentioned. Maybe more his willingness to take risks on how effective his cross-over recordings is. There has been alot of cross-over stuff. Some better than others. Lunasa comes to mind. Some really nice stuff...some leaves one scratching their had and asking 'Why did they do that?'
Then there is that overproduced stuff coming out. Strange contrasts. We say the Chieftains in Chicago a couple of weeks ago. Wonderful show. Maybe a bit heavy on Water from the Well.
Then last night something called 'Celtic Thunder'. Andrew Lloyd Weber with bodhrans and whistles.
# Posted on March 17th 2008 by zippydw
Re: Random Thought on Paddy Moloney
can't type worth a damn
'we saw the Chieftains..."
# Posted on March 17th 2008 by zippydw
Re: Random Thought on Paddy Moloney
My favourites are,, in order Chieftains...= 2 3 4 ...After that I did'nt bother with them much -
jim,,,,
# Posted on March 17th 2008 by FIDDLE4
Re: Random Thought on Paddy Moloney
The bodhran playing went up a notch or two when Kevin Conneff joined.
# Posted on March 17th 2008 by Steve Shaw
Re: Random Thought on Paddy Moloney
My uncle lived on the same road as Paddy as kids. He said the lads used to slag him off when he was carrying his pipes down the road. Talk about karma. Don't you just love it!!
# Posted on March 17th 2008 by Deise
Re: Random Thought on Paddy Moloney
According to an interview with Derek Bell years ago, Paddy does indeed have full control of the band.
# Posted on March 17th 2008 by Bob himself
Re: Random Thought on Paddy Moloney
Paddy's a musical entrepreneur and has been ever since he played in skiffle groups in the 1950s.
He does not 'have full control of the band' (in a legalistic way), but he certainly does arrange its touring and recording schedules, and (to be absolutely fair to him) does take on a remarkable programme of promotional events - and always has. The Chieftains do not nowadays exist as a band. Paddy will set up tour dates and, once established, will only then come back to Matt, Seán or Kevin (the three remaining other members) and determine whether they're available to play the gigs he's arranged. Sometimes they are and sometimes they're not and, in the latter case, he'll arrange replacements.
I suppose the upshot is that nowadays it's just impossible to predict who'll actually be playing at a Chieftains gig, apart from Paddy himself.
# Posted on March 17th 2008 by MacCruiskeen
Re: Random Thought on Paddy Moloney
In my opinion Paddy Maloney has probably done more than any other individual for Irish music over the past 40 years. He has raised the profile of the music through years of hard work. He's done it despite, I'm sure, knowing that he would be criticized for keeping his hand firmly on the rudder and for collaborations that many would find unsuitable. Like it or not these collaborations have massively increased the world wide interest in Irish music. Just because he has made a success of his life doesn't mean it should be forgotten what he has contributed.
It seems to me that great players who dare to try anything other than the pure drop are fair game in some circles, despite what they may do in a more trad format. The most rediculous example at the moment is the guys who knock bands like Lunasa. Anyone who really thinks they are not good for trad should get out more. I'm sure the Bothy Band and De Dannan had their knockers (no, not that kind) at the time, but who dares criticize them now?
# Posted on March 17th 2008 by bogman
Re: Random Thought on Paddy Moloney
I kind of agree with bogman, but I must say I couldn't get through the "authorized biography" of the Chieftans that really was a relentless collection of name-dropping on Paddy's behalf.
# Posted on March 17th 2008 by grego
Re: Random Thought on Paddy Moloney
If it wasn't for Paddy there would be a lot less places to play.
# Posted on March 18th 2008 by bodhran bliss
Re: Random Thought on Paddy Moloney
I think bands like Lunasa have got a long way to go before they're worthy of being mentioned in the same breath as the Chieftains. Sort of like T. Dan Quayle vs. JFK.
# Posted on March 18th 2008 by Steve Shaw
Re: Random Thought on Paddy Moloney
grego, having met up recently with a 'name' from the 'revival music scene' (whether you like the term or not) and talking with them about 'old times' and 'when I saw you last', most performing musicians knew and had performed on stage at some time, either together or on the same bill. Paddy Maloney would be no exception, even I have had that particular honour of playing on stage with the Chieftans. (bet he doesn't remember me though or even has the faintest clue as to when or where!). For example, have a listen to Diana Ross talking about her time at Tamla Motown, when and how she started as a performer; it's exactly the same, all the names, all the venues etc. You may not like it, but that's the way it is in genre music. Maloney's particular claim is he has managed to inveigle as many different performers from as many different genre to actually perform and record with him and the band. Good luck to him.
If you're good enough the opportunities will que up for you, though I'd wonder about taking the White House gig.
# Posted on March 18th 2008 by john knoss
Re: Random Thought on Paddy Moloney
Well said "bogman."
I'm a big fan of the Chieftain as a self contained group minus the guests. Unfortunately the collaborations I like the least are usually with artists I really like a lot... the Stones, Mark Knofler and (it kills me to say it) Chet Atkins. I agree however that the collaboration have bought Irish music to a lot of folks who otherwise would not have had exposure to it.
As a group though.... I think they are fantastic musicians. I've seen them live three times and I've been blown away by there muscianship and the quality of their arrangements. As a self contained unit when Derek Bell was still alive I don't think too many could play ITM better... In my opinion the Bothy Band is/was one of the few exceptions. Just my two cents worth.
# Posted on March 18th 2008 by Raymond G
Re: Random Thought on Paddy Moloney
Maybe I should have said 'if you are fashionable enough the opportunities will que up to play for you' Maloney is without doubt a suitably able musician by anyones standards.
# Posted on March 18th 2008 by john knoss
Re: Random Thought on Paddy Moloney
I watched that programme about the Chieftains tonight, between gigs.
Maloney run the whole show, but the others went along with it, paid the bills and they could get plenty of "real" traditional as well. That said, the Chieftains introduced ITM to millions, and that cannot be forgetten. The collaborations sometimes went over the top, but personally I love Morrison's version of "Raglan Road" and Sinead O'Connor does the dreaded "Foggy Dew" superbly with them. A bit dramatic, but so was 1916 so perhaps Maloney managed to capture the essence of the piece.
I remember seeing the Chieftains loads of times in the 1970s and they were immense. Bell added something different, and then along came Molloy.
Incidentally on the programme Molloy says the Bothy Band were introducing "rock" rhythms to the music, so there you go.
And Peader Mercier was the best drummer they had, in my humble opinion.
# Posted on March 18th 2008 by bodhran bliss
Re: Random Thought on Paddy Moloney
To get back to the original comments about Paddy Maloney's personality and whatnot, yes, he does seem to be a bit egocentric and even rude sometimes, but he's an incredible musician and The Chieftains have provided the world with tons of awesome music! I'm also not a big fan of their collaboration albums but I personally think all their instrumental albums are amazing. I learned to play pennywhistle and Irish flute from listening to them. I agree with molaoch that their version of The Foxhunt is genius (oddly enough, I happened to be listening to it when I came to this discussion page...weird!) I recommend listening to their Pigtown set on the 2nd cd for any fellow woodwind players out there, it's great!
# Posted on March 18th 2008 by Glass of Beer
Re: Random Thought on Paddy Moloney
oops, Moloney**
# Posted on March 18th 2008 by Glass of Beer
Re: Random Thought on Paddy Moloney
I think it's in the nature of these things that you have someone who has ideas about what hey want, and isn't afraid to do whatever it takes to get them, and others who work well and fit in. I don't suppose it's possible to run a band purely democratically. My experience of playing in bands is that you do need strong ideas, whether that's from one person or a few...
# Posted on March 18th 2008 by Mark Harmer
Re: Random Thought on Paddy Moloney
Saw the Chieftans in early 1970s in Sheffield. Afterwards they invited the audience to stop behind for a party - bottles of black stuff appeared - they left their instruments out on the table with an open invitation to anyone who wanted to give them a tune.
I had a tune on MTs anglo.
# Posted on March 18th 2008 by geoffwright
Re: Random Thought on Paddy Moloney
You saying Paddy Maloney left his pipes on a table and invited "anyone" to have a go?
# Posted on March 18th 2008 by ...