So Clontarf Comhaltas have been suspended or something to that effect. Dish the dirt if you have it! Does Larry want to take over this state of the art building as his own personal fiefdom. Is he not satisfied with the monster that is Bru Boru? What about all the money that has been raised by supporters of Craobh Cluain Tarbh? Is this war?
I seems to stem from the Clontarf branch being awarded a VAT (Sales tax) rebate from paying for the construction of their new music center.
On further investigation it seem that their non-profit tax status would not allow them to keep the money so they returned it to the revenue commission.
Enter Larry Murphy.
CCE HQ decided that the because the building is property of an individual branch of CCE, therefore, it's property of CCE Inc. and they tax rebate should have been kept and forwarded to HQ.
Because the Clontarf Branch of CCE went againts these wishes he is in the process of disolving the branch as an entity and thus CCE HQ gets to inherit all assets from the branch. One of which is the 11million euro music center.
It's the lowest of the low. And actually if the Clontarf branch kept that money in the first place it would have been against the current tax laws.
It really reminds me of Stalin style communism.
I think it's time for Labhras O'Murchu to step down.
For the most part he's done an average job over the last 30 years but he seems to be losing it.
It's time to step down and have some young blood take over.
Stop the dissolution of the Clontarf branch of CCE NOW!!
Mind you, it has to be said that people or organisations returning tax to the State in Ireland is a very unusual proposition!! Most have trouble paying the 'proper' taxes in the first place - just ask Bertie or The Monk!!
Stalin was a lamb compared to LO'M
O Murchu is a self imposed dictator - no one voted him to head honcho of CCE. No one knows where the money goes - his misus runs Bru Boru I hear. Corruption of a staggering degree. No-one has ever seen their books. IT SHOULD BE THE NEXT TRIBUNAL!!!!!! seriously - would be interesting to see where CCE funds are tied up in. I think we might be shocked.
This sets a moderately terrifying precedent for those of us with CCE associations.
Where is this news being covered? Is there a place we can read up on it? Is there anything that we might be able to do to help the folks in Clontarf fight off this nonsense?
As Georgi says we probably won't be surprised. A few years ago maybe, but that was only because we actually didn't know what was going on in Ireland and not because it didn't go on. Down through the ages in different cultures, there have always been those who have harvested strong sentiments for their own gain and in Ireland it has been no different. It is now clear that some of those who sail under the flag of " nationalism" have for years lined their own pockets or at least persued power on the back of those who work voluntarily. And the bould Larry Murphy is one of the better examples.
As for corruption, well what would be new there when we remember that Larry Murphy is a senator appointed by the most corrupt party of all and a party who has led the way in corrupt behaviour. And you can be sure if Comhaltas was investigated along with one or two other so called national institutions, you might be surprised - or not - as to what might crawl out.
What can be done? Very little I imagine. It will up to those who go to all sorts of efforts and who for years have been making personal sacrifices to speak up and that is unlikely. I have watched the politics of Comhaltas and before that the GAA for years and have learnt to stay well clear of it. As has been said before here, the people on the ground who turn up every week to ensure the smooth running of classes are to be admired but when you start to examine further up the ladder, then it gets scary. In the headquarters of Comhaltas in Monkstown, classes are run every week and the teachers and pupils are to found in freezing cold store rooms trying to teach and learn but you can be sure that Larry is freezing cold. But hey, sure he can't even play !
There are a few staunch supports of Comhaltas here on this site and maybe their comments might be of interest?
The session is probably the largest single interest group involved in ITM when considered as a world wide phenomenon. As custodians of that tradition of song, music and dance, you as an organisation, must surely acknowledge us as an interested party.
The questions being asked on this site (I would hesitate in describing them as allegations) surely must elicit some response from Comhaltas.
As an individual interested in 'promoting and continuing Irish Culture' ( I seem to remember that from somewhere) may I respectfully ask if there will be a response from your organisation with regard to the above.
Unfortunately this is not an issue Comhaltas can afford to ignore or fudge. It's very credibility and veracity depend on what is said and how it is said.
Economy with the truth simply will not do.
Fug yourself Tommy, branches have been dissolved for not towing the party-political line in the past and they will be dissolved in the future, it's in the nature of the beast.
I should like to apologise to all on the site for wasting their time in reading the post.
Expecting an answer was less likely than achieving enlightenment (for me at least, although I live in hope) in a Zen monastery - at least there are those who can claim they have heard the sound of one hand clapping.
Ah hold on here now lads ! CCE does not need nor want to read these comments or answer them. The hierarchy there are not bothered about the man on the street unless he is willing to work his ass off for nothing. What does disappoint is the lack of input from those on this site who would continually defend Comhaltas. However I suppose if you are continually buzzing around working on behalf of the hierarchy and then see this type of thing going on, I suppose the best thing to do, out of embarrassement if nothing else ,is keep your mouth shut?
I can't speak for Comhaltas, but I can say that the situation with the Clasac theatre (and with the Clontarf branch) is a bit more complicated than the posts here would suggest.
b, I don't doubt the 'situation' ....'is a bit more complicated'.
However, don't you think that some explanation, indeed, any sort of explanation should be forth coming? Two sides to every story? That sort of thing?
With all due respect, (I mean that quite seriously) do you know something we don't? You place yourself in an awkward position here.
My opinion concurs with Concertinaplayer's assessment of CCE's attitude to the ordinary people/musicians/
dancers/singers that make up the foundation of that organisation.
The topic came up on Joe Duffy’s radio programme a few days ago. A guy from Cluain Tarbh was on and said that they had legitimately negotiated a VAT refund on the basis that Clasac was a separate taxable entity to Comhaltas. Apparently, Comhaltas then asked them to transfer the refund to their account. This would have implied that they were not separate at all so the VAT refund would have been illegal. So rather than transfer the money to Comhaltas they gave it back to Revenue. So it seems that Comhaltas dissolved the branch because they refused to break the law! Way nasty!
Thanks for the post Emmet.
Seems there is no charity, compromise or negotiation possible with either side. Though you have to sympathise with the 'branch' as they would likely be prosecuted to the 'full extent of the law' if they did anything different. Usual backing of the Head Office then....still no comment From CCE and still the exploitation of the 'grass roots' it seems.
Is there an explanation for the existance and continuing employment of the executive of CCE?
It's one of the downsides of the format of this site, that threads like this just disappear down the pages. It really should be kept top page for a while as there are clearly serious issues to be addressed: not least the use of volunteer fundraising cash, never mind what are probably considerable sums of tax payers money to boot, EU grants etc.
This topic deserves consideration, far more so than the usual run of threads that tick by..
An article examining some issues with CCE's finances appeared in the Phoenix some years ago. The late Tom Munnelly was fond of quoting it on the IrTrad mailing list (and he may have given me a photo copy of it at the time, which I cannot find right now)
I did notice when my son was looking at the Skyfest fireworks on the tellie a list scrolled at the bottom of the screen listing sums of National Lottery money gone to organisations (in the South east?) which included 1.5 million for CCE.
There were a few people on the Joe Duffy show from Cluain Tarbh. But no one from Comhaltas! In the interest of balance it would be worthwhile hearing both sides of the story. After all there were serious allegations made. The Cluain Tarbh guy said that transferring the VAT to Comhaltas would have got individual members of their branch into deep trouble with Revenue.
B. As you say you can’t speak for Comhaltas but what are the ‘complications’ that you are aware of?
Where have all the apologists gone! Speak up Bannerman. We're all dying to hear CCE side of the story. Watch out for flying pigs and blue moons! All I get from CCE activists and the poor mugs doing the real work is 'its complicated, you don't know all the facts'. When what should be happening is they should be backing Clontarf instead of toeing the party line.
In fairness it's not likely the details will be know to a lot of people outside those directly involved. Breandan, working at CCE HQ, apparently knows more but I can understand it's not his place to make statements on behalf of the organisation.
There would seem to me to be something wrong about public funding going to an organisation whose unelected Director-General has been in his job since 1968, and will be indefinitely. Interested parties should follow the link to the Cluain Tarbh site on a recent discussion post on this website.
Yet again, Larry Murphy's interests are put ahead of the rank and file volunteers, and yet again, the music is not his priority.
The issue came up again on Joe Duffy's radio programme today. Joe was able to confirm the dissolution of Cluain Tarbh. Apparantly Comhaltas wrote to Joe Duffy but didn't bother to let the branch know.
The whole story is available at http://www.cluaintarbh.net/index.htm
The 'great and good' of traditional music in Dublin turned out last night to support the dissolved Cluain Tarbh branch of cce in a topclass concert.
There were members from most of the Dublin branches and from Kildare Louth Down Meath Mayo Armagh, NPU [pipers club]
What a nights' music! and what good company!
Thank you to all who attended esp those who travelled a long distance and to the artists.
Clasac - what is Larry Murphy up to!
Clasac - what is Larry Murphy up to!
So Clontarf Comhaltas have been suspended or something to that effect. Dish the dirt if you have it! Does Larry want to take over this state of the art building as his own personal fiefdom. Is he not satisfied with the monster that is Bru Boru? What about all the money that has been raised by supporters of Craobh Cluain Tarbh? Is this war?
# Posted on March 13th 2008 by bullwall
Re: Clasac - what is Larry Murphy up to!
I thinks it's an absolute disgrace.
I seems to stem from the Clontarf branch being awarded a VAT (Sales tax) rebate from paying for the construction of their new music center.
On further investigation it seem that their non-profit tax status would not allow them to keep the money so they returned it to the revenue commission.
Enter Larry Murphy.
CCE HQ decided that the because the building is property of an individual branch of CCE, therefore, it's property of CCE Inc. and they tax rebate should have been kept and forwarded to HQ.
Because the Clontarf Branch of CCE went againts these wishes he is in the process of disolving the branch as an entity and thus CCE HQ gets to inherit all assets from the branch. One of which is the 11million euro music center.
It's the lowest of the low. And actually if the Clontarf branch kept that money in the first place it would have been against the current tax laws.
It really reminds me of Stalin style communism.
I think it's time for Labhras O'Murchu to step down.
For the most part he's done an average job over the last 30 years but he seems to be losing it.
It's time to step down and have some young blood take over.
Stop the dissolution of the Clontarf branch of CCE NOW!!
Tommy Martin
# Posted on March 13th 2008 by tompipes
Re: Clasac - what is Larry Murphy up to!
The mind boggles - sure this isn't April1st??
# Posted on March 13th 2008 by the wounded hussar
Re: Clasac - what is Larry Murphy up to!
Mind you, it has to be said that people or organisations returning tax to the State in Ireland is a very unusual proposition!! Most have trouble paying the 'proper' taxes in the first place - just ask Bertie or The Monk!!
# Posted on March 13th 2008 by the wounded hussar
Re: Clasac - what is Larry Murphy up to!
Stalin was a lamb compared to LO'M
O Murchu is a self imposed dictator - no one voted him to head honcho of CCE. No one knows where the money goes - his misus runs Bru Boru I hear. Corruption of a staggering degree. No-one has ever seen their books. IT SHOULD BE THE NEXT TRIBUNAL!!!!!! seriously - would be interesting to see where CCE funds are tied up in. I think we might be shocked.
# Posted on March 13th 2008 by iwerzon
Re: Clasac - what is Larry Murphy up to!
"I think we might be shocked."
Sadly, I suspect we won't.
# Posted on March 13th 2008 by Georgi
Re: Clasac - what is Larry Murphy up to!
So where's piper Reilly now?
# Posted on March 13th 2008 by kilfarboy
Re: Clasac - what is Larry Murphy up to!
This sets a moderately terrifying precedent for those of us with CCE associations.
Where is this news being covered? Is there a place we can read up on it? Is there anything that we might be able to do to help the folks in Clontarf fight off this nonsense?
# Posted on March 13th 2008 by Georgi
Re: Clasac - what is Larry Murphy up to!
As Georgi says we probably won't be surprised. A few years ago maybe, but that was only because we actually didn't know what was going on in Ireland and not because it didn't go on. Down through the ages in different cultures, there have always been those who have harvested strong sentiments for their own gain and in Ireland it has been no different. It is now clear that some of those who sail under the flag of " nationalism" have for years lined their own pockets or at least persued power on the back of those who work voluntarily. And the bould Larry Murphy is one of the better examples.
As for corruption, well what would be new there when we remember that Larry Murphy is a senator appointed by the most corrupt party of all and a party who has led the way in corrupt behaviour. And you can be sure if Comhaltas was investigated along with one or two other so called national institutions, you might be surprised - or not - as to what might crawl out.
What can be done? Very little I imagine. It will up to those who go to all sorts of efforts and who for years have been making personal sacrifices to speak up and that is unlikely. I have watched the politics of Comhaltas and before that the GAA for years and have learnt to stay well clear of it. As has been said before here, the people on the ground who turn up every week to ensure the smooth running of classes are to be admired but when you start to examine further up the ladder, then it gets scary. In the headquarters of Comhaltas in Monkstown, classes are run every week and the teachers and pupils are to found in freezing cold store rooms trying to teach and learn but you can be sure that Larry is freezing cold. But hey, sure he can't even play !
There are a few staunch supports of Comhaltas here on this site and maybe their comments might be of interest?
# Posted on March 13th 2008 by concertinaplayer
Re: Clasac - what is Larry Murphy up to!
"Larry isn't freezing cold" - just in case people got worried about him !! . "Supporters of Comhaltas"
# Posted on March 13th 2008 by concertinaplayer
Re: Clasac - what is Larry Murphy up to!
The session is probably the largest single interest group involved in ITM when considered as a world wide phenomenon. As custodians of that tradition of song, music and dance, you as an organisation, must surely acknowledge us as an interested party.
The questions being asked on this site (I would hesitate in describing them as allegations) surely must elicit some response from Comhaltas.
As an individual interested in 'promoting and continuing Irish Culture' ( I seem to remember that from somewhere) may I respectfully ask if there will be a response from your organisation with regard to the above.
Unfortunately this is not an issue Comhaltas can afford to ignore or fudge. It's very credibility and veracity depend on what is said and how it is said.
Economy with the truth simply will not do.
# Posted on March 13th 2008 by john knoss
Re: Clasac - what is Larry Murphy up to!
Phew! people are waking up at last, about time too.
# Posted on March 13th 2008 by strayaway
Re: Clasac - what is Larry Murphy up to!
Let's not all behave like this is a surprise, forgotten about the Funding for the (traditional) Arts and how friend Labhras went about that issue?
# Posted on March 14th 2008 by kilfarboy
Re: Clasac - what is Larry Murphy up to!
Fug me Peter, I'm shocked that HQ would stoop so low. I know Larry Murphy is a bit of a Napoleon but to actually dizolve a branch.
It's really like Breznev's government in the '80's. You can have the crack but if you don't vote for me I'll expell you from the party.
It's undemocratic and borderline illegal
# Posted on March 14th 2008 by tompipes
Re: Clasac - what is Larry Murphy up to!
There's a Prime Time documentary about the Monk, i.e. Gerry Hutch.
http://www.rte.ie/news/primetime/index.html
I wonder if they'll do a tipperary gangstar show on th tax scam that is Bru Boru....
T
# Posted on March 14th 2008 by tompipes
Re: Clasac - what is Larry Murphy up to!
Fug yourself Tommy,
branches have been dissolved for not towing the party-political line in the past and they will be dissolved in the future, it's in the nature of the beast.
# Posted on March 14th 2008 by kilfarboy
Re: Clasac - what is Larry Murphy up to!
Years ago Alan O Leary posted this gem, from the mouth of Breandan Breathnach, to the IrTrad list:
" Ahh MR O'Murchu, a man with one distinct talent, The ability to imitate the primary skill of the Weasel: The Ability to mesmerise Rabbits"
# Posted on March 14th 2008 by kilfarboy
Re: Clasac - what is Larry Murphy up to!
Regarding my post of a couple of days ago.
I should like to apologise to all on the site for wasting their time in reading the post.
Expecting an answer was less likely than achieving enlightenment (for me at least, although I live in hope) in a Zen monastery - at least there are those who can claim they have heard the sound of one hand clapping.
# Posted on March 15th 2008 by john knoss
Re: Clasac - what is Larry Murphy up to!
Has CCE HQ offered any response at all?
# Posted on March 15th 2008 by tompipes
Re: Clasac - what is Larry Murphy up to!
Ah hold on here now lads ! CCE does not need nor want to read these comments or answer them. The hierarchy there are not bothered about the man on the street unless he is willing to work his ass off for nothing. What does disappoint is the lack of input from those on this site who would continually defend Comhaltas. However I suppose if you are continually buzzing around working on behalf of the hierarchy and then see this type of thing going on, I suppose the best thing to do, out of embarrassement if nothing else ,is keep your mouth shut?
# Posted on March 16th 2008 by concertinaplayer
Re: Clasac - what is Larry Murphy up to!
I can't speak for Comhaltas, but I can say that the situation with the Clasac theatre (and with the Clontarf branch) is a bit more complicated than the posts here would suggest.
# Posted on March 17th 2008 by b
Re: Clasac - what is Larry Murphy up to!
Maybe you could enlighten us?
# Posted on March 17th 2008 by concertinaplayer
Re: Clasac - what is Larry Murphy up to!
b, I don't doubt the 'situation' ....'is a bit more complicated'.
However, don't you think that some explanation, indeed, any sort of explanation should be forth coming? Two sides to every story? That sort of thing?
With all due respect, (I mean that quite seriously) do you know something we don't? You place yourself in an awkward position here.
My opinion concurs with Concertinaplayer's assessment of CCE's attitude to the ordinary people/musicians/
dancers/singers that make up the foundation of that organisation.
# Posted on March 17th 2008 by john knoss
Re: Clasac - what is Larry Murphy up to!
The topic came up on Joe Duffy’s radio programme a few days ago. A guy from Cluain Tarbh was on and said that they had legitimately negotiated a VAT refund on the basis that Clasac was a separate taxable entity to Comhaltas. Apparently, Comhaltas then asked them to transfer the refund to their account. This would have implied that they were not separate at all so the VAT refund would have been illegal. So rather than transfer the money to Comhaltas they gave it back to Revenue. So it seems that Comhaltas dissolved the branch because they refused to break the law! Way nasty!
# Posted on March 17th 2008 by Emmet Bennett
Re: Clasac - what is Larry Murphy up to!
Thanks for the post Emmet.
Seems there is no charity, compromise or negotiation possible with either side. Though you have to sympathise with the 'branch' as they would likely be prosecuted to the 'full extent of the law' if they did anything different. Usual backing of the Head Office then....still no comment From CCE and still the exploitation of the 'grass roots' it seems.
Is there an explanation for the existance and continuing employment of the executive of CCE?
# Posted on March 18th 2008 by john knoss
Re: Clasac - what is Larry Murphy up to!
It's one of the downsides of the format of this site, that threads like this just disappear down the pages. It really should be kept top page for a while as there are clearly serious issues to be addressed: not least the use of volunteer fundraising cash, never mind what are probably considerable sums of tax payers money to boot, EU grants etc.
This topic deserves consideration, far more so than the usual run of threads that tick by..
# Posted on March 18th 2008 by the wounded hussar
Re: Clasac - what is Larry Murphy up to!
An article examining some issues with CCE's finances appeared in the Phoenix some years ago. The late Tom Munnelly was fond of quoting it on the IrTrad mailing list (and he may have given me a photo copy of it at the time, which I cannot find right now)
I did notice when my son was looking at the Skyfest fireworks on the tellie a list scrolled at the bottom of the screen listing sums of National Lottery money gone to organisations (in the South east?) which included 1.5 million for CCE.
# Posted on March 18th 2008 by kilfarboy
Re: Clasac - what is Larry Murphy up to!
There were a few people on the Joe Duffy show from Cluain Tarbh. But no one from Comhaltas! In the interest of balance it would be worthwhile hearing both sides of the story. After all there were serious allegations made. The Cluain Tarbh guy said that transferring the VAT to Comhaltas would have got individual members of their branch into deep trouble with Revenue.
B. As you say you can’t speak for Comhaltas but what are the ‘complications’ that you are aware of?
# Posted on March 18th 2008 by Emmet Bennett
Re: Clasac - what is Larry Murphy up to!
Where have all the apologists gone! Speak up Bannerman. We're all dying to hear CCE side of the story. Watch out for flying pigs and blue moons! All I get from CCE activists and the poor mugs doing the real work is 'its complicated, you don't know all the facts'. When what should be happening is they should be backing Clontarf instead of toeing the party line.
# Posted on March 20th 2008 by bullwall
Re: Clasac - what is Larry Murphy up to!
In fairness it's not likely the details will be know to a lot of people outside those directly involved. Breandan, working at CCE HQ, apparently knows more but I can understand it's not his place to make statements on behalf of the organisation.
That said, the silence is indeed deafening.
# Posted on March 20th 2008 by kilfarboy
Re: Clasac - what is Larry Murphy up to!
There would seem to me to be something wrong about public funding going to an organisation whose unelected Director-General has been in his job since 1968, and will be indefinitely. Interested parties should follow the link to the Cluain Tarbh site on a recent discussion post on this website.
Yet again, Larry Murphy's interests are put ahead of the rank and file volunteers, and yet again, the music is not his priority.
Still no word from CCÉ HQ.
# Posted on March 20th 2008 by dublin08
Re: Clasac - what is Larry Murphy up to!
The issue came up again on Joe Duffy's radio programme today. Joe was able to confirm the dissolution of Cluain Tarbh. Apparantly Comhaltas wrote to Joe Duffy but didn't bother to let the branch know.
The whole story is available at http://www.cluaintarbh.net/index.htm
# Posted on March 20th 2008 by Emmet Bennett
Re: Clasac - what is Larry Murphy up to!
The 'great and good' of traditional music in Dublin turned out last night to support the dissolved Cluain Tarbh branch of cce in a topclass concert.
There were members from most of the Dublin branches and from Kildare Louth Down Meath Mayo Armagh, NPU [pipers club]
What a nights' music! and what good company!
Thank you to all who attended esp those who travelled a long distance and to the artists.
# Posted on April 6th 2008 by dílis