Hello,
This is my first post so I hope I'm doing this all right.
First off I was wondering if anyone had a copy of the mad4tad guitar tutorial laying around that they would be interested in parting with.
Also, what is every body's suggestions for continuing to improve in isolation? There is no session in my town and the closest I know of is about 120 miles away, which is too far for me to be able to afford attending. I have tried serveral times to start a session with the few irish musicians in my area but it just never seems to take off as I cannot get enough commitment to keep it going. I spend alot of time listening to various artists and trying to imitate much of what I hear them doing. I have also used some book and video tutors on my favorite instuments, Guitar, Concertina, Accordion, but even though I feel this has laid down a good foundation they usually just deal with the basics of technique and not a lot with correct interpretaion needed to get that true "irish sound" like you hear from musicians over in Ireland. It is easy to get onto a platue. What are your suggestions and what do you do?
I have sessions in my area but I don't feel like I'm anywhere near ready to set foot in the pubs with my guitar.
Have you used ABC yet?
If not, download "ABC Navigator" and install it. It's free. Then download tunes from this site and open them with Navigator. It turns the ABC into sheet music and midi. I configured mine to play the midi back as a fiddle. It works OK in a pinch.
Also, you may want to download a tune titled "4minutes33seconds" from this site. It's not really a tune but rather complete silence. For whatever reason people such as myself, often need to run this file first to get Navigator to play the midi files. It's weird but it works.
I see you have an interest in reed instruments.
Listen to some good flute players (& of course uilleann pipes)
Isolation can be a good thing for music. That probably is not what yo want to hear. A session does not need t0 have many people. If just 2 of you can get together that is a start.
You can listen to some good music programs on the internet. http://www.rte.ie/tv/thefullset/index.html
"Come West Long the Road" also produced a good DVD of trad music during the 60's, 70's, & 80's.
Well, I'm glad my posting of 4'33" has actually found a functional use, rather than just being a joke spawned by some discussion we had in years gone by. Here it is anyway: http://www.thesession.org/tunes/display.php/2399
I think I may have mentioned before it was how I got ABC Navigator working, so even more gratified that someone else has found this out.
You'll probably have to start going to all those camps and festivals in the States and spend a lot of your holidays going to festivals in Ireland. But don't give up trying to start up sessions. You just need a critical mass of players - even just 2 or 3 - to be a nucleus for other potential sessioneers to join you. Like most here, you're stuck with this hobby, so you can't escape from it anyway. Ultimately as Michael says you may have to move.....
All you need is to find one other person near you who shares your enthusiasm for it. Even getting together with one other person once every week or so is good - and don't rule out what you can learn and absorb from just that one other person.
Also festivals - piping tionols in particular - are a great place to meet up with other people like-minded. There are often workshops in many different instruments. Also you can do alot of playing in a couple of days with people you might only see once a year or every couple of years.
These can be things to get you through until your geographical situation changes.
If you are still alone and plan to be there for awhile it would be a good idea to start training a legion of minions...I mean, start teaching people to play. Even if you've only been at it for a few years you've got plenty to share with somebody who has been at it for none. You might light a fire in someone's belly just by exposing them to recordings.
Establish email contact with that session 120 miles away, so you can learn their tunes. Persuade the ITM players in your area to learn them too. Then get together for a road trip, say once a month, sharing the costs. You might even convince those distant players to make the trip in your direction once in a while (that's a long shot, though, in my experience).
Stick to your guns on the local session idea. It might take awhile, but it can happen. There are some great long-running sessions in unlikely places.
But do avoid sheet music, at least until you have learned lots of tunes by (good) example. YouTube and Comhaltas do have some good video clips available for free (but be careful, with YouTube--there's a lot of bad examples on there too).
Amen to most of the advice here, excepting the sheet music - I'd suggest also that you download Audacity from Sourceforge and then download good tuneplaying from youtube and comhaltas' websites. There's heaps of wonderful stuff there, record it on your PC if you can using Audacity and then use that as a resource to improve your playing.
Don't give up about your local area... I'd second the post above about connecting even with just one other person to play with regularly... that alone will help massively.
I've faced that dilema myself. Sessions are great, but not always the way forward when you're starting out or if there are none in your area. I get bored playing at home on my own What I've done, that's worked well for me is to play along music on the internet. attach some powerful speakers to the computer, and play along to tunes/sets and performances on youtube. also, I play along to the BBC virtual session etc. Obviously, it's not as good as playing with other musicians, but, at the tap of a keyboard, you've got lots of different styles, speeds, instrument groupings etc to play along to. Helped me to get up to session speed and there's no limit to who you play along with...
But be careful not to fall into the "fast-but-sloppy" trap, when you are playing along with recordings. It can be too easy to skip over the difficult bits, and miss the good little touches, when you play that way. It is arguably better to learn the tune on your own, by playing it solo at a speed that is comfortable for you. (After listening to it played well, of course, so you know what to aim for.)
Wow,
Thanks for all the input and advice! Everybody's responses were incredibly fast. Most of the forums I have participated in have usually taken many days to get more than just a handfull of responses, this had 11 just overnight!
Something I have been wondering about is the seeming contraversy surrounding learning from written music. I have heard a lot of comments that one should not learn tunes through sheet music but should only do so through listening to other payers. I learned at least half of the tunes I know through reading sheet music since that is what I have been raised doing in the world of classical music, (almost 11 years proffessional instruction). Because of this I have more difficulty learning tunes by ear, and reading and memorizing through sheet music comes very easy. I recognize that you can't just read the music stait and that it needs significant iterpretation to sound correct. What I have been trying to do is to learn the various songs from sheet music and then add the imphasis and ornamentation to get them to sound like the musicians I really look up to. Is this a viable option or am I running an exstreem risk of sounding too straitjacketed. I am just getting into home recording and so maybe I will be able to post a link with some of my playing on it for your input. But for now I was wondering if everyone would be willing to address this issue some for me.
Tyler
No. Do not use sheet music. You can only learn tunes from sheet music after you already have a pretty solid basis on how they "should" sound. And even then, it's hard.
_Steph_ & mickray & SWFL ~ m_gavin and the rest ~ here, here! ~ excellent advice...
Make regular visits to Montana & Washington, either side of you, both have the occassional folk weekend or festival, with workshops, and loads of opportunities to play music with others, and even for dancers. & there's Canada too, and Vancouver, city and island, is not short of fine folks who can also play in all meanings of the word, including making fine music...
"~ am I running an extreme risk of sounding too straitjacketed." ~ Tyler
YES ~ WORSE!!! ~ without understanding, which is gained from the ground and from first hand experience and by ear, and feet if you dance ~ without that understanding and direct acquisition, which is what 'tradition' is about, paper, notation, doesn't just risk resulting in lifeless exercise, it muffles the music, it smothers it, it is as we call it ~ DOTS! ~ just dots and lines. Get yourself some decent recordings if nothing else, but do as several have suggested, make it real, find others with the shared passion, and put yourself out now and then and go visit those distant other places. I can highly recommend a visit to the realms of Will CPT:
Drop him a line, he is in your 'general' vicinity and may know some musicians closer to you. There's also Spokane, who used to have an annual folk bash with workshops, and Missoula had something similar going, in town and also up in the mountains, lovely people and lovely scenery...
There are sources for free ear training too ~ click on my name and scroll down to find some links, but these are also to be found in the 'links' section of this website. Comhaltas has some as well, including videos, and these are regularly featured on site here, for recent examples:
Good luck... You are never completely isolated and your ears are your best teacher... But if the opportunity comes to learn from another living soul, take it... That is priceless... Also, save up your pennies and take a vacation to Ireland. It can still be done with a backpack and sleeping bag, and for workshops and festivals and sessions ~ to do with Irish music and dance, it is the best option...
Thanks imensly for all your input! I will definately be focusing on getting better at learning tunes by ear. Hey it will be more of a challange at first but probably more rewarding in spite of it. Besides, I have always wished I could pick up a lot of the tunes that I enjoy listening to my favourite musicians play and this is the perfect opportunity to do so. Thanks for the link SWFL Fiddler I passed right over it: very informative to say the least! You too ceolachan, a lot of fantastic material there!
All the Best!
How to Improve in Isolation?
How to Improve in Isolation?
Hello,
This is my first post so I hope I'm doing this all right.
First off I was wondering if anyone had a copy of the mad4tad guitar tutorial laying around that they would be interested in parting with.
Also, what is every body's suggestions for continuing to improve in isolation? There is no session in my town and the closest I know of is about 120 miles away, which is too far for me to be able to afford attending. I have tried serveral times to start a session with the few irish musicians in my area but it just never seems to take off as I cannot get enough commitment to keep it going. I spend alot of time listening to various artists and trying to imitate much of what I hear them doing. I have also used some book and video tutors on my favorite instuments, Guitar, Concertina, Accordion, but even though I feel this has laid down a good foundation they usually just deal with the basics of technique and not a lot with correct interpretaion needed to get that true "irish sound" like you hear from musicians over in Ireland. It is easy to get onto a platue. What are your suggestions and what do you do?
# Posted on March 7th 2008 by Tyler
Re: How to Improve in Isolation?
move
# Posted on March 7th 2008 by llig leahcim
Re: How to Improve in Isolation?
I have sessions in my area but I don't feel like I'm anywhere near ready to set foot in the pubs with my guitar.
Have you used ABC yet?
If not, download "ABC Navigator" and install it. It's free. Then download tunes from this site and open them with Navigator. It turns the ABC into sheet music and midi. I configured mine to play the midi back as a fiddle. It works OK in a pinch.
Also, you may want to download a tune titled "4minutes33seconds" from this site. It's not really a tune but rather complete silence. For whatever reason people such as myself, often need to run this file first to get Navigator to play the midi files. It's weird but it works.
# Posted on March 7th 2008 by Fishmonger
Re: How to Improve in Isolation?
No. don't. Top tip: I you want to "imitate what you hear" do not learn tunes from sheet music.
# Posted on March 7th 2008 by llig leahcim
Re: How to Improve in Isolation?
I see you have an interest in reed instruments.
Listen to some good flute players (& of course uilleann pipes)
Isolation can be a good thing for music. That probably is not what yo want to hear. A session does not need t0 have many people. If just 2 of you can get together that is a start.
You can listen to some good music programs on the internet.
http://www.rte.ie/tv/thefullset/index.html
"Come West Long the Road" also produced a good DVD of trad music during the 60's, 70's, & 80's.
# Posted on March 7th 2008 by Random_notes
Re: How to Improve in Isolation?
Well, I'm glad my posting of 4'33" has actually found a functional use, rather than just being a joke spawned by some discussion we had in years gone by. Here it is anyway:
http://www.thesession.org/tunes/display.php/2399
I think I may have mentioned before it was how I got ABC Navigator working, so even more gratified that someone else has found this out.
You'll probably have to start going to all those camps and festivals in the States and spend a lot of your holidays going to festivals in Ireland. But don't give up trying to start up sessions. You just need a critical mass of players - even just 2 or 3 - to be a nucleus for other potential sessioneers to join you. Like most here, you're stuck with this hobby, so you can't escape from it anyway. Ultimately as Michael says you may have to move.....
# Posted on March 7th 2008 by Key Maniac Lad
Re: How to Improve in Isolation?
Hi Tyler,
All you need is to find one other person near you who shares your enthusiasm for it. Even getting together with one other person once every week or so is good - and don't rule out what you can learn and absorb from just that one other person.
Also festivals - piping tionols in particular - are a great place to meet up with other people like-minded. There are often workshops in many different instruments. Also you can do alot of playing in a couple of days with people you might only see once a year or every couple of years.
These can be things to get you through until your geographical situation changes.
If you are still alone and plan to be there for awhile it would be a good idea to start training a legion of minions...I mean, start teaching people to play. Even if you've only been at it for a few years you've got plenty to share with somebody who has been at it for none. You might light a fire in someone's belly just by exposing them to recordings.
All the best,
Stephanie
# Posted on March 7th 2008 by _Steph_
Re: How to Improve in Isolation?
Tyler--some offhand suggestions:
Establish email contact with that session 120 miles away, so you can learn their tunes. Persuade the ITM players in your area to learn them too. Then get together for a road trip, say once a month, sharing the costs. You might even convince those distant players to make the trip in your direction once in a while (that's a long shot, though, in my experience).
Stick to your guns on the local session idea. It might take awhile, but it can happen. There are some great long-running sessions in unlikely places.
But do avoid sheet music, at least until you have learned lots of tunes by (good) example. YouTube and Comhaltas do have some good video clips available for free (but be careful, with YouTube--there's a lot of bad examples on there too).
# Posted on March 7th 2008 by mickray
Re: How to Improve in Isolation?
Amen to most of the advice here, excepting the sheet music - I'd suggest also that you download Audacity from Sourceforge and then download good tuneplaying from youtube and comhaltas' websites. There's heaps of wonderful stuff there, record it on your PC if you can using Audacity and then use that as a resource to improve your playing.
Don't give up about your local area... I'd second the post above about connecting even with just one other person to play with regularly... that alone will help massively.
Keep it going
Nathan
# Posted on March 7th 2008 by Brown Creeper
Re: How to Improve in Isolation?
Yeah, well, I meant well.
# Posted on March 7th 2008 by Fishmonger
Re: How to Improve in Isolation?
I've faced that dilema myself. Sessions are great, but not always the way forward when you're starting out or if there are none in your area. I get bored playing at home on my own What I've done, that's worked well for me is to play along music on the internet. attach some powerful speakers to the computer, and play along to tunes/sets and performances on youtube. also, I play along to the BBC virtual session etc. Obviously, it's not as good as playing with other musicians, but, at the tap of a keyboard, you've got lots of different styles, speeds, instrument groupings etc to play along to. Helped me to get up to session speed and there's no limit to who you play along with...
# Posted on March 7th 2008 by gilezzznik
Re: How to Improve in Isolation?
But be careful not to fall into the "fast-but-sloppy" trap, when you are playing along with recordings. It can be too easy to skip over the difficult bits, and miss the good little touches, when you play that way. It is arguably better to learn the tune on your own, by playing it solo at a speed that is comfortable for you. (After listening to it played well, of course, so you know what to aim for.)
# Posted on March 7th 2008 by mickray
Re: How to Improve in Isolation?
Wow,
Thanks for all the input and advice! Everybody's responses were incredibly fast. Most of the forums I have participated in have usually taken many days to get more than just a handfull of responses, this had 11 just overnight!
Something I have been wondering about is the seeming contraversy surrounding learning from written music. I have heard a lot of comments that one should not learn tunes through sheet music but should only do so through listening to other payers. I learned at least half of the tunes I know through reading sheet music since that is what I have been raised doing in the world of classical music, (almost 11 years proffessional instruction). Because of this I have more difficulty learning tunes by ear, and reading and memorizing through sheet music comes very easy. I recognize that you can't just read the music stait and that it needs significant iterpretation to sound correct. What I have been trying to do is to learn the various songs from sheet music and then add the imphasis and ornamentation to get them to sound like the musicians I really look up to. Is this a viable option or am I running an exstreem risk of sounding too straitjacketed. I am just getting into home recording and so maybe I will be able to post a link with some of my playing on it for your input. But for now I was wondering if everyone would be willing to address this issue some for me.
Tyler
# Posted on March 8th 2008 by Tyler
Re: How to Improve in Isolation?
Tyler:
http://www.thesession.org/discussions/display/16952
# Posted on March 8th 2008 by SWFL Fiddler
Re: How to Improve in Isolation?
Sorry, this one:
http://www.thesession.org/discussions/display/16952#comment352375
...but read the whole thread.
# Posted on March 8th 2008 by SWFL Fiddler
Re: How to Improve in Isolation?
No. Do not use sheet music. You can only learn tunes from sheet music after you already have a pretty solid basis on how they "should" sound. And even then, it's hard.
# Posted on March 8th 2008 by m_gavin
Re: How to Improve in Isolation?
_Steph_ & mickray & SWFL ~ m_gavin and the rest ~ here, here! ~ excellent advice...
Make regular visits to Montana & Washington, either side of you, both have the occassional folk weekend or festival, with workshops, and loads of opportunities to play music with others, and even for dancers. & there's Canada too, and Vancouver, city and island, is not short of fine folks who can also play in all meanings of the word, including making fine music...
"~ am I running an extreme risk of sounding too straitjacketed." ~ Tyler
YES ~ WORSE!!! ~ without understanding, which is gained from the ground and from first hand experience and by ear, and feet if you dance ~ without that understanding and direct acquisition, which is what 'tradition' is about, paper, notation, doesn't just risk resulting in lifeless exercise, it muffles the music, it smothers it, it is as we call it ~ DOTS! ~ just dots and lines. Get yourself some decent recordings if nothing else, but do as several have suggested, make it real, find others with the shared passion, and put yourself out now and then and go visit those distant other places. I can highly recommend a visit to the realms of Will CPT:
http://www.thesession.org/members/display/58
Drop him a line, he is in your 'general' vicinity and may know some musicians closer to you. There's also Spokane, who used to have an annual folk bash with workshops, and Missoula had something similar going, in town and also up in the mountains, lovely people and lovely scenery...
There are sources for free ear training too ~ click on my name and scroll down to find some links, but these are also to be found in the 'links' section of this website. Comhaltas has some as well, including videos, and these are regularly featured on site here, for recent examples:
Discussion: A Fiddle & Flute Duet
# Posted on March 6th 2008 by Bannerman (a regular contributor of these)
http://www.thesession.org/discussions/display/16950
Discussion: Ernestine Healy on Concertina with a Selection of Reels
# Posted on March 7th 2008 by FIDDLE4 (check his details too)
http://www.thesession.org/discussions/display/16956
Good luck... You are never completely isolated and your ears are your best teacher... But if the opportunity comes to learn from another living soul, take it... That is priceless... Also, save up your pennies and take a vacation to Ireland. It can still be done with a backpack and sleeping bag, and for workshops and festivals and sessions ~ to do with Irish music and dance, it is the best option...
# Posted on March 8th 2008 by ceolachan
Comhaltas ~
http://comhaltas.ie/
http://comhaltas.ie/music
# Posted on March 8th 2008 by ceolachan
FIDDLE4 ~
Discussion: 4 more videos = getting there,,
# Posted on February 12th 2008 by FIDDLE4
http://www.thesession.org/discussions/display/16696
Discussion: Two more Videos -
# Posted on March 5th 2008 by FIDDLE4
http://www.thesession.org/discussions/display/16932
FIDDLE4:
http://uk.youtube.com/fiddle4u
http://learntunes.mysite.orange.co.uk/
Discussion: Help with Links site,
# Posted on March 2nd 2008 by FIDDLE4
http://www.thesession.org/discussions/display/16904
# Posted on March 8th 2008 by ceolachan
Re: How to Improve in Isolation?
Thanks imensly for all your input! I will definately be focusing on getting better at learning tunes by ear. Hey it will be more of a challange at first but probably more rewarding in spite of it. Besides, I have always wished I could pick up a lot of the tunes that I enjoy listening to my favourite musicians play and this is the perfect opportunity to do so. Thanks for the link SWFL Fiddler I passed right over it: very informative to say the least! You too ceolachan, a lot of fantastic material there!
All the Best!
# Posted on March 9th 2008 by Tyler