Frankie Gavin; from genius to catastrophic musak maker
Frankie Gavin; from genius to catastrophic musak maker
Noble company here assembled
, I never write on message boards but after listening to his latest recording, I felt i had to make some comment on the downward spiral of Frankie Gavin's career. I do this after switching off the cd of his latest offering while listening to it for the first time.
I mean, conceptually it was strong with trad. adaptions of mozart and jazz and such, but in terms of production we are entitled to expect for from gavin than cheap shoddy synth backing.
Where are the halcian days gone when great musicians like gavin played real music on real instruments with real other musicians?
I can only lament that he doesnt make more albums like the one he made for French Radio with Mssrs. McGynn & Coffee. How the Mighty have fallen
Re: Frankie Gavin; from genius to catastrophic musak maker
I had a similar experience a couple of years ago with a cassette tape I bought in Ireland purporting to be a compendium of tunes played by Paddy Glackin and others (whose names mercifully escape me). On returning to England I listened to it once with increasing horror and then consigned it to the garbage bin. Most of the backing was synth of the worst kind, with quite a lot of clutter of New Age stuff. In Glackin's defence all I can suggest is that most of this rubbish was added post-production and that he didn't know anything about it - or possibly even of the existence of the tape. So that suggests it was a pirate tape made using previous recordings of Paddy Glackin without his knowledge and approval.
Re: Frankie Gavin; from genius to catastrophic musak maker
LH, you're probably talking about the LP Hidden Ground by Paddy Glackin (a willing participant) and the late Jolyon Jackson. I rather like it - has some great moments.
As for Frankie, I think he stopped being listenable in about 1990 or a bit before - whenever it was that he decided every tune required a demonstration of virtuoso bow scrubbing and bouncing. Really, the lad needs a day job.
Re: Frankie Gavin; from genius to catastrophic musak maker
I haven't heard the Gavin and Edie offering yet, but Trevor, if you mean Paddy Glackin and Jolyon Jackson's Hidden Ground, personally I think that is a classic recording....ok, maybe not the Pure Drop, but a brilliant attempt at experiment *within* the tradition.
This type of crossover stuff happens all the time - remember some of those dire Chieftains albums eg the one with that fat little born-again Christian neanderthal homonculus from Northern Ireland, whassisname, Van something. And Gavin himself is no stranger to the idea - even The Star Spangled Molly has a Beatles song on it and is in fact a "concept" album. If you listen to some of the old Coleman and Morrison tracks, the backing is a jazz guitar -- don't tell me that crossed the ocean from Kilfenora or Killishandra.
At the end of the day, whichever elements of this hybridisation you like or dislike are down to just that - your personal taste - what you like or dislike.
Re: Frankie Gavin; from genius to catastrophic musak maker
Frankie Gavin has made gazillions of albums playing excellent kosher trad with his peers, and probably wants to extend his scope and try out different things. I'm interested to see how far in Classical music a trad player (perhaps encasing a one-time junior school violinist, in some cases) is able to travel, and I thought the De Dannan take on "The Queen Of Sheba" was great, though I didn't find some of their other Classical attempts as stirring. But I admired the band for making them.
Pity if Gavin's new cd is really bunged up with synth noises instead of proper backing / interplaying music, though.
Just so long as he doesn't mistake himself for Nigel Kennedy, that's all I'd ask of him...
Re: Frankie Gavin; from genius to catastrophic musak maker
I don't remember the specific title of that tape, but "Hidden Ground" (which I haven't heard as such) certainly doesn't ring any bells in relation to it.
I bought the tape on spec from a street stall at a festival for 4 or 5 €s, so I wasn't all that concerned about chucking it, and the possibility (or even probability) that it was a pirate soon occurred to me.
Is the Gavin-Edey CD “Jiggin' the Blues”, the one that is the subject of http://www.thesession.org/recordings/display/2904 osted by domnull, the same as the one that is the subject of this discussion? If so, then there is a wonderful disparity between the review there and the comments here!
Re: Frankie Gavin; from genius to catastrophic musak maker
I'll wager that's no review, but BS put out by the record company!
Hidden Ground was released on cheap cassette a few years ago - I got mine for 3 quid if I remember right. You would rather believe that people have been adding synth backing to pirated recordings of Glackin? Hmm...
Re: Frankie Gavin; from genius to catastrophic musak maker
yes the Glackin?Jackson album was released as a cheapo album called, wait for it, "The Best of Irish Traditional Music Volume 2" ...what an inspired title. Volume 1 has excerpts from The Lewis Family's album, and it really IS the Pure Drop.
Re: Frankie Gavin; from genius to catastrophic musak maker
no, lazyhound, jiggin' the blues is not the album at stake here (indeed i just ordered it, cos it was a new one on me). the album in question right now is called frankie gavin and hibernian rhapsody (not to be confused the de dannan album of the same name) and while the way he explores the idea of trad/ classical fusion on it is capitvating as such, the cheap execution makes it a rather dire effort in practice.
Re: Frankie Gavin; from genius to catastrophic musak maker
His career is probably on an upward spiral, but his trad music playing on a downward. Gavin is a great musician, obviously more money to be made from this, which is sad.
I mean "The Corrs" could have been a nice mediocre Folk Group, but then started playing nonsense to ensure their career took an upward turn. There are many other examples.
Re: Frankie Gavin; from genius to catastrophic musak maker
We have Hidden Ground here on tape too - good stuff, if a bit jingly jangle in places and was one of those recordings that got us more interested in trad than rock.
Re: Frankie Gavin; from genius to catastrophic musak maker
I haven't heard the offending recording. But I did really like the "Tunes" recordings with Shannon, McGoldrick and Murray. That's only a year or two old(?).
Re: Frankie Gavin; from genius to catastrophic musak maker
Apologies if I'm going off topic for a sec...
Hidden ground listening to it now.....again.
Its a great album in many wierd ways. I can understand you were disappointed as it wasn't what you were expecting.
Try it again with a different perspective maybe.
Re: Frankie Gavin; from genius to catastrophic musak maker
Well all I can say is I played with Frankie for a few years and he is without doubt the greatest fiddle player on this planet in Irish music, simply untouchable and my other favourite is Dezi Donnelly another total genius.
People have to change styles to suit varying markets etc
Re: Frankie Gavin; from genius to catastrophic musak maker
Q:Where are the halcian days gone when great musicians like gavin played real music on real instruments with real other musicians.
A: Er, looking for REAL audiences, perhaps? We are talking about paid professionals here, right? I sympathize, gentles, and yet I will opine the, IMHO, obvious.
A musician does not usually "make his mark" in history (if that is his ambition, and I suggest that that might be Frankie's) by doing what has been done before, no matter how well they do it.
Breaking new ground is adventurous and, for the established performer/artist, frequently quite dangerous, for reputation and career. Good for Frankie having the courage to explore strange new worlds, to seek out new drummers and new audiences, to boldly go where
Sorry.
While I am at it, I still think Frankie is one of the finest fiddlers I have ever listened to. Period.
Re: Frankie Gavin; from genius to catastrophic musak maker
Q:Where are the halcian days gone when great musicians like gavin played real music on real instruments with real other musicians.
Answer, he does still play with other real musicians Derek Hickey, Tim Edey and Carl Hession for a start although Tim and Derek no longer play i dont think with the band.
Re: Frankie Gavin; from genius to catastrophic musak maker
"Critics are like eunuchs in a harem; they know how it's done, they've seen it done every day, but they're unable to do it themselves." - Breandán Ó Beacháin
Re: Frankie Gavin; from genius to catastrophic musak maker
When you go too far toward new age Celto-jazz fusion or whatever,then it's still good stuff but it's moved onwards from diddly music. For me it's time to say goodbye when that happens.
Maguire was the greatest imo. And I'm not trading on his versatility or the superfluous theatrics of later years. His tone alone was/is superior to the rest, even the talented Zoe. His classical background gave rise to tremendous snobbery, but at the end of the day it's about the end product. I mean that tone blows everyone away! Listen to his version of Carolan's Concerto.
Frankie Gavin; from genius to catastrophic musak maker
Frankie Gavin; from genius to catastrophic musak maker
Noble company here assembled
, I never write on message boards but after listening to his latest recording, I felt i had to make some comment on the downward spiral of Frankie Gavin's career. I do this after switching off the cd of his latest offering while listening to it for the first time.
I mean, conceptually it was strong with trad. adaptions of mozart and jazz and such, but in terms of production we are entitled to expect for from gavin than cheap shoddy synth backing.
Where are the halcian days gone when great musicians like gavin played real music on real instruments with real other musicians?
I can only lament that he doesnt make more albums like the one he made for French Radio with Mssrs. McGynn & Coffee. How the Mighty have fallen
# Posted on March 6th 2008 by ORiada
Re: Frankie Gavin; from genius to catastrophic musak maker
"...trad. adaptions of mozart and jazz"
I must say I'd prefer to to listen to the mobile phone ring-tone versions!
# Posted on March 6th 2008 by dsndfkjasf
Re: Frankie Gavin; from genius to catastrophic musak maker
I had a similar experience a couple of years ago with a cassette tape I bought in Ireland purporting to be a compendium of tunes played by Paddy Glackin and others (whose names mercifully escape me). On returning to England I listened to it once with increasing horror and then consigned it to the garbage bin. Most of the backing was synth of the worst kind, with quite a lot of clutter of New Age stuff. In Glackin's defence all I can suggest is that most of this rubbish was added post-production and that he didn't know anything about it - or possibly even of the existence of the tape. So that suggests it was a pirate tape made using previous recordings of Paddy Glackin without his knowledge and approval.
# Posted on March 6th 2008 by Trevor Jennings
Re: Frankie Gavin; from genius to catastrophic musak maker
LH, you're probably talking about the LP Hidden Ground by Paddy Glackin (a willing participant) and the late Jolyon Jackson. I rather like it - has some great moments.
As for Frankie, I think he stopped being listenable in about 1990 or a bit before - whenever it was that he decided every tune required a demonstration of virtuoso bow scrubbing and bouncing. Really, the lad needs a day job.
# Posted on March 6th 2008 by Jeeves Tones
Re: Frankie Gavin; from genius to catastrophic musak maker
I haven't heard the Gavin and Edie offering yet, but Trevor, if you mean Paddy Glackin and Jolyon Jackson's Hidden Ground, personally I think that is a classic recording....ok, maybe not the Pure Drop, but a brilliant attempt at experiment *within* the tradition.
This type of crossover stuff happens all the time - remember some of those dire Chieftains albums eg the one with that fat little born-again Christian neanderthal homonculus from Northern Ireland, whassisname, Van something. And Gavin himself is no stranger to the idea - even The Star Spangled Molly has a Beatles song on it and is in fact a "concept" album. If you listen to some of the old Coleman and Morrison tracks, the backing is a jazz guitar -- don't tell me that crossed the ocean from Kilfenora or Killishandra.
At the end of the day, whichever elements of this hybridisation you like or dislike are down to just that - your personal taste - what you like or dislike.
# Posted on March 6th 2008 by Rudall the time
Re: Frankie Gavin; from genius to catastrophic musak maker
http://www.thesession.org/recordings/display/409
And now, back to Frankie Gavin...
# Posted on March 6th 2008 by Jeeves Tones
Re: Frankie Gavin; from genius to catastrophic musak maker
Frankie Gavin has made gazillions of albums playing excellent kosher trad with his peers, and probably wants to extend his scope and try out different things. I'm interested to see how far in Classical music a trad player (perhaps encasing a one-time junior school violinist, in some cases) is able to travel, and I thought the De Dannan take on "The Queen Of Sheba" was great, though I didn't find some of their other Classical attempts as stirring. But I admired the band for making them.
Pity if Gavin's new cd is really bunged up with synth noises instead of proper backing / interplaying music, though.
Just so long as he doesn't mistake himself for Nigel Kennedy, that's all I'd ask of him...
# Posted on March 6th 2008 by nicholas
Re: Frankie Gavin; from genius to catastrophic musak maker
I don't remember the specific title of that tape, but "Hidden Ground" (which I haven't heard as such) certainly doesn't ring any bells in relation to it.
I bought the tape on spec from a street stall at a festival for 4 or 5 €s, so I wasn't all that concerned about chucking it, and the possibility (or even probability) that it was a pirate soon occurred to me.
Is the Gavin-Edey CD “Jiggin' the Blues”, the one that is the subject of http://www.thesession.org/recordings/display/2904 osted by domnull, the same as the one that is the subject of this discussion? If so, then there is a wonderful disparity between the review there and the comments here!
# Posted on March 6th 2008 by Trevor Jennings
Re: Frankie Gavin; from genius to catastrophic musak maker
I'll wager that's no review, but BS put out by the record company!
Hidden Ground was released on cheap cassette a few years ago - I got mine for 3 quid if I remember right. You would rather believe that people have been adding synth backing to pirated recordings of Glackin? Hmm...
# Posted on March 6th 2008 by Jeeves Tones
Re: Frankie Gavin; from genius to catastrophic musak maker
yes the Glackin?Jackson album was released as a cheapo album called, wait for it, "The Best of Irish Traditional Music Volume 2" ...what an inspired title. Volume 1 has excerpts from The Lewis Family's album, and it really IS the Pure Drop.
# Posted on March 6th 2008 by Rudall the time
Re: Frankie Gavin; from genius to catastrophic musak maker
no, lazyhound, jiggin' the blues is not the album at stake here (indeed i just ordered it, cos it was a new one on me). the album in question right now is called frankie gavin and hibernian rhapsody (not to be confused the de dannan album of the same name) and while the way he explores the idea of trad/ classical fusion on it is capitvating as such, the cheap execution makes it a rather dire effort in practice.
# Posted on March 6th 2008 by ORiada
Re: Frankie Gavin; from genius to catastrophic musak maker
Oriada, thanks for clearing that up.
# Posted on March 6th 2008 by Trevor Jennings
Re: Frankie Gavin; from genius to catastrophic musak maker
His career is probably on an upward spiral, but his trad music playing on a downward. Gavin is a great musician, obviously more money to be made from this, which is sad.
I mean "The Corrs" could have been a nice mediocre Folk Group, but then started playing nonsense to ensure their career took an upward turn. There are many other examples.
# Posted on March 6th 2008 by bodhran bliss
Re: Frankie Gavin; from genius to catastrophic musak maker
We have Hidden Ground here on tape too - good stuff, if a bit jingly jangle in places and was one of those recordings that got us more interested in trad than rock.
# Posted on March 6th 2008 by the wounded hussar
Re: Frankie Gavin; from genius to catastrophic musak maker
I haven't heard the offending recording. But I did really like the "Tunes" recordings with Shannon, McGoldrick and Murray. That's only a year or two old(?).
# Posted on March 6th 2008 by daddae
Re: Frankie Gavin; from genius to catastrophic musak maker
So, is this the same situation as Stevie Wonder, where one might be expected to forgive (current) lapses in view of a brilliant past?
# Posted on March 7th 2008 by drone
Re: Frankie Gavin; from genius to catastrophic musak maker
Apologies if I'm going off topic for a sec...
Hidden ground listening to it now.....again.
Its a great album in many wierd ways. I can understand you were disappointed as it wasn't what you were expecting.
Try it again with a different perspective maybe.
# Posted on March 7th 2008 by Hugo Chavez
Re: Frankie Gavin; from genius to catastrophic musak maker
Well all I can say is I played with Frankie for a few years and he is without doubt the greatest fiddle player on this planet in Irish music, simply untouchable and my other favourite is Dezi Donnelly another total genius.
People have to change styles to suit varying markets etc
# Posted on March 7th 2008 by jazz fan
Re: Frankie Gavin; from genius to catastrophic musak maker
Q:Where are the halcian days gone when great musicians like gavin played real music on real instruments with real other musicians.
A: Er, looking for REAL audiences, perhaps? We are talking about paid professionals here, right? I sympathize, gentles, and yet I will opine the, IMHO, obvious.
A musician does not usually "make his mark" in history (if that is his ambition, and I suggest that that might be Frankie's) by doing what has been done before, no matter how well they do it.
Breaking new ground is adventurous and, for the established performer/artist, frequently quite dangerous, for reputation and career. Good for Frankie having the courage to explore strange new worlds, to seek out new drummers and new audiences, to boldly go where
Sorry.
While I am at it, I still think Frankie is one of the finest fiddlers I have ever listened to. Period.
# Posted on March 7th 2008 by Piece
Re: Frankie Gavin; from genius to catastrophic musak maker
Q:Where are the halcian days gone when great musicians like gavin played real music on real instruments with real other musicians.
Answer, he does still play with other real musicians Derek Hickey, Tim Edey and Carl Hession for a start although Tim and Derek no longer play i dont think with the band.
# Posted on March 7th 2008 by jazz fan
Re: Frankie Gavin; from genius to catastrophic musak maker
"Critics are like eunuchs in a harem; they know how it's done, they've seen it done every day, but they're unable to do it themselves." - Breandán Ó Beacháin
# Posted on March 8th 2008 by stephenseifert
Re: Frankie Gavin; from genius to catastrophic musak maker
Gavin is brilliant but he'll never equal Sean Maguire. Donnelly has the ability to surpass Gavin, if he hasn't done so already.
# Posted on March 11th 2008 by BowHand
Re: Frankie Gavin; from genius to catastrophic musak maker
It's hard to make these comparisons. Zoe Conway can play jazz and the others can't. Does that make Zoe Conway 'the greatest?'
# Posted on March 11th 2008 by Hup
Re: Frankie Gavin; from genius to catastrophic musak maker
When you go too far toward new age Celto-jazz fusion or whatever,then it's still good stuff but it's moved onwards from diddly music. For me it's time to say goodbye when that happens.
# Posted on March 11th 2008 by Hup
Re: mhuppert
Maguire was the greatest imo. And I'm not trading on his versatility or the superfluous theatrics of later years. His tone alone was/is superior to the rest, even the talented Zoe. His classical background gave rise to tremendous snobbery, but at the end of the day it's about the end product. I mean that tone blows everyone away! Listen to his version of Carolan's Concerto.
# Posted on March 13th 2008 by BowHand