When I play my whistles at school, people often ask what the instrument I am playing is. I usually answer "Tin Whistle," but I would like to know which name is actually used more widely.
I like to say "Irish Whistle" since it more accurately reflects what I play -- Irish traditional music. But aside from that -- I'd say tin whistle -- among Trad folks.
I also call it "Irish whistle" since it's not the actual instrument that distinguishes what I play - it's the style and ornamentation I'm trying to achieve. The same tin whistle/penny whistle can be used to play Scottish music - therefore it's a Scottish whistle .... etc etc.
They're not made of tin in most cases, they cost a lot more than a penny, and you don't referee games with them (as in simple "whistle"). Seems as though you're lying in your teeth whatever you call them.
I call it a tin whistle, or a pennywhistle, and - like mehitabel - urge on people the fact that IT'S NOT A RECORDER!!! - I expostulate on its peculiar merits, and say, "...No holes in the back!"
But of course the new, sophisticated ones are starting to sprout holes in the back.
The Zouk is Greek, The Accordion (as we know it) is probably German, The Fiddle is Italian via Asia/Africa, The Guitar is fantastic and The Bodhran is quite possibly the only Irish instrument to truly represent our roots and history.....discuss.
"The Bodhran is quite possibly the only Irish instrument to truly represent our roots and history.....discuss."
The Bodhran is of course a copy of the Wiltshire Riddle Drum and only became common in Irish music in the 1960's. So not Irish and not traditional.
I'll get my coat.
I've got involved in this "the fiddle is Italian" myth argument before, and it always ends in tears ... Ah well, here goes again. [sigh]
The fiddle's antecedents can't really be placed geographically. Maybe they came from Asia/Africa, but there were instruments that were so bloody close to being a fiddle in "the islands consisting of the UK and Ireland" (God, I'm getting sick of these bleeding PC euphemisms) so long ago, that you can really count the thing as indigenous.
Meanwhile, the modern violin could quite probably have developed in these islands before it did in Italy. Certainly the best in the world were made here before the Italians got in on the act and started copying them and then improved on them. The history of violin making in these islands is sometimes referred to as being represented by the letter 'W', thought of as a graph. In other words, first we produced the best in the world, then the best were elsewhere (the first downward point on the 'W') then in the 18c we produced the best again (round about Peter Walmesley & co), then someone else took over again, and the 20c saw a resurgence in the craft in these islands.
On the basis of the above, I don't see the violin as an Italian instrument. I think that would be a bit like saying that the motorbike is a Japanese thing.
However, going back to the tin whistle, the Clarke company were an English company. The reason it was called a 'Penny Whistle' is, of course, because that's what they sold them for when they produced them in the 19c, as a novelty instrument, which apparently was popular in music hall for a while.
I agree with buttons n whistles. I call it the whistle myself and I play mostly Scottish music. To me it is a Scottish whistle when I'm playing it and an Irish whistle when an Irishman is playing it. I don't particularly care about the origins of instruments. The Zouk as we know it in Irish music is not played like it is in the Med. Don't let anybody bull you, it's the Irish bouzouki in Irish music. The bodhran is not an English riddle drum it's an Irish bodhran.
People always think their clever when they come up to a Scottish piper like myself and boldly claim "the bagpipes aren't Scottish". Well we can't claim every type of bagpipe but the GHB are Scottish. The form they now take was developed here. I know this because there are ancient generic sets in Dunvegan castle (MacCrimmon) about 3 miles from my house. Show almost anyone in the world GHB and ask them where they are from. Or show people a bodhran they will probably say Irish. And all that rubbish about Irish pipes not actually being Irish because there may have been bellow pipes in England. Different music different animal. A fiddle and a violin look the same but are different instruments.
Clarkes may have made the whistle as a novelty but the Irish made it an instrument.
L.E. McCullough notes that the oldest surviving whistles date from the 12th century, but that, "Players of the feadan are also mentioned in the description of the King of Ireland's court found in the Brehon Laws dating from the 3rd century A.D."[1] The Tusculum whistle is a 14cm whistle with six finger holes, made of brass or bronze, found with pottery dating to the 14th and 15th centuries; it's currently in the collection of the Museum of Scotland.[2]
The term "penny whistle" was coined on the streets of Dublin in the late 1500's because of the whistles' prevalence among the beggars and vagabonds in Ireland. The word "tin-whistle" was also coined as early as 1825.[3] but neither word seems to have been common until the 20th century.[4] The first record of tin-plate whistles dates back to 1825 in Britain.[5]
...and then there's those 9,000 year old bones with holes drilled in the they find in archaeological digs. That's why I play an authentic bone whistle. "Yup, this one right here I'm playing now was made by Shaman Ogg himself right before being eaten by a sabre-tooth tiger..."
Surely the Bodhran type drum originated in Middle Eastern countries? I was born in 1936 in the Irish midlands and was listening to ITM from when I was a kid. Yet the first Bodhran I saw been battered in time to the music was sometime in the sixties. (I use the term 'Batter' because I remember that's exactly how the guy was playing it at the time)
You may be right about origins there Free Reed, but there are similar single skinned drums all over the world. IMO it's the context it is used in than rather than the oldest surviving record that is most important. As far as I'm aware it is not called the bodhran when used in other cultures. The instrument that JJ Kelly plays may look like other single skinned drums but thats where most similarities end. If I was Irish I would claim the drum used in Irish music is an Irish bodhran.
In fact, though I'm Scottish, I'll still claim the drum used in ITM is the Irish bodhran. In Scotland it is simply the bodhran, where it originated doesn't seem to matter much.
"A fiddle and a violin look the same but are different instruments."
Are you saying, bogman, that it doesn't matter what the instrument itself is, it's what you play on it that counts? In which case, I can go with that. Meanwhile, of course, the fiddle and the violin are *physically* identical. Just to be clear ...
Oh, but then, there's the setup (as opposed to the instrument itself) - metal strings possibly, flatter, lower bridge, weaker, therefore bendier bow which may be over-tightened ... must be more, but can't think of any for the moment.
Sorry for the fiddle interlude. Carry on with the whistles. Good stuff.
If I remember right, the best material for a bone whistle is the legbone of a swan, but I can't find that reference, so here's a sheep bone whistle instead
When is a violin not a fiddle ? When it's a crwth ? There's not that much difference in the basic idea, and crwths were being bowed in the 11th C. long before the Italian violin makers became famous..
"The crwth was originally an instrument similar to the lyre, played by plucking the strings with the fingers. First mentioned in Welsh literature in the tenth century, the instrument was played with a bow from the eleventh century onwards."
When faced with such queries, I usually prefer the term New-Anglo-Celtic-Penny-Flageo-Wind-Whistle-Thingie, as this most acurately reflects my dry and dusty academic scholarly approach to this whole critically serious ITM... thing.
Or I just call it a whistle.
So there.
Nyah.
Good luck, all.
I have agree that the manner in which an instrument is used is the definition of that instrument. I cite the following example: Kitchen Dancing (foot percussion) is considered around here to be a Quebecois tradition, but almost every culture has feet.
Fine as far as whistle goes, I suppose. The problem for fiddle is that that's what classical players - at least in the UK - call it as well: a "fiddle".
The uilleann pipes probably descend from the French pastoral pipes (bellows-blown) that seem to have been invented in the c17; the same applies to the Northumbrian and Border pipes and the Scottish smallpipes, at least in their bellows-powered forms as we have them now. But I've seen no real evidence that the uilleann pipes were developed outside of Ireland, except insofar as the principle of using bellows (I believe) would have been introduced to Ireland, either directly from France or indirectly via England, Scotland or Wales.
The recorded history of the development of the uilleann pipes does seem to have mysterious gaps in it. But if the "gentleman pipers" of the c18 were playing the full chanter range, and even more if regulators had come in by them, the instrument was more advanced at that time than the Northumbrian pipes, which only started to acquire their full range around or after 1800.
Well I don't know about the rest of the world but in Ireland it's usually just called a Whistle or Tin Whistle, I've never heard anyone here calling it a penny whistle. But being in Ireland theres no need to explain to anyone what type of music or instrument you're playing when you just say "whistle". This would of course be different in other countries. In Italy for eg. they call it "il flauto Irlandese" which is technically incorrect as this means the Irish flute, but that's how they refer to it because it's not an instrument they see very often. So basically who gives a damn what people call it once they understand what you're talking about and of course once they don't call it a recorder!
The whistle was originally invented millions of years ago by the aboriginal peoples of the Antipodes - but over the centuries they have improved and modernised the instrument by removing the fipple and blocking up all those annoying little holes - a labour-saving improvement for the fingers. In the early days they used to let the mud-wasps block the holes up for them - but this was a bit of a dream-time waster - so they eventually took to sealing the holes with mud themselves. This of course was heavily frowned upon by the traditionalists amongst them, but eventually became the accepted way. Nowadays they don't even go to the trouble of drilling the holes they used to block - ahh! such is progress - and of course the correct name for the whistle is the "didge".
Our modern style whistles may have been "invented" by Clarke, but there have been whistle like instruments throughout history in many cultures, and I'm sure Irish music used whistles before Clarke first made tin whistles.
I usually call it a pennywhistle, but just because I think it rolls of the tung better than tin whistle.
While where the instrument originated may be interesting information, when people ask what the instrument is, it's probably sufficient to say Irish, Penny or Tin Whistle or whatever else you would like (Scottish or whatever.)
Personally I lean to Tin or Penny Whistle because if the person who asks decides to go to the music shop and buy one, they're more likely to be steered toward the correct instrument if they ask the clerk where the tin or penny whistles are.
Clarke from Norfolk/Suffolk England invented the whistle. He was a farm worker and was sacked by his boss for paying too much time with his whistles. He went to London and started a business making whistles. It did very well and he eventually returned to Norfolk where her bought the old farm where he used to work ! At the sessions in Norfolk it was known as the penny whistle. I used to but penny whistles from the car boot sales in Norfolk but never achieved buying one for a penny. When I left Norfolk I my own stand at a car boot sale and got my own back on the Norfolk folk by selling the spare whistles I had acquired for just one penny each.
The full version of the wikipedia info already posted earlier.....
L.E. McCullough notes that the oldest surviving whistles date from the 12th century, but that, "Players of the feadan are also mentioned in the description of the King of Ireland's court found in the Brehon Laws dating from the 3rd century A.D."[1] The Tusculum whistle is a 14cm whistle with six finger holes, made of brass or bronze, found with pottery dating to the 14th and 15th centuries; it's currently in the collection of the Museum of Scotland.[2]
The term "penny whistle" was coined on the streets of Dublin in the late 1500's because of the whistles' prevalence among the beggars and vagabonds in Ireland. The word "tin-whistle" was also coined as early as 1825.[3] but neither word seems to have been common until the 20th century.[4] The first record of tin-plate whistles dates back to 1825 in Britain.[5]
The first factory-made "tinwhistles" were produced by Robert Clarke (? - 1882) in Manchester and later New Moston, England. Up to 1900, they were also marketed as "Clarke London Flageolets" or "Clarke Flageolets".[6] The whistle's fingering system is similar to that of the six hole, simple system, "Irish flute" ("simple" in comparison to Boehm system flutes). The six hole, diatonic system is also used on baroque flutes and other folk flutes, and was of course well known before Robert Clarke began producing his tin whistles circa 1843. Clarke's first whistle, the Meg, was pitched in high A and was later made in other keys suitable for Victorian parlor music. The company showed the whistles in The Great Exhibition of 1851.[7]
In the second half of the 19th century, some flute manufacturers such as Barnett Samuel and Joseph Wallis also sold whistles. These had a cylindrical brass tube. Like many old whistles, they had lead fipple plugs; since lead is poisonous, caution should be exercised before playing an old whistle.
The Generation whistle was introduced in the first half of the 20th century, and also featured a brass tube with a lead fipple plug. The design was updated somewhat over the years, most notably the substitution of a plastic fipple for the lead plug design.
While whistles have most often been produced in higher pitches, the "low" whistle is not unknown historically. The Museum of Fine Arts, Boston has in its collection an example of a 19th century low whistle from the famous Galpin collection.[8] During the 1960s revival of traditional Irish music the low whistle was "recreated" by Bernard Overton at the request of Finbar Furey.[9]
In Northumberland or maybe Durham / Tyneside there was a character called Billy Conroy who played, exclusively, whistles he had made from bicycle pumps and the like; a few surviving recordings indicate he was a spirited and pretty good player on them. I wonder if he made his own to get away from lead mouthpieces. The FARNE website has the odd clip of his playing.
Whistle doesn't seem to have played much part in Northumbrian trad, however, at least in the decades before the late c20 folk revival.
Thanks Bogman for correcting me. After checking, Robert Clarke from Coney Weston, Suffolk, England, started his tin whistle company in Manchester, not London in 1843. The rest is true.
Tin Whistle or Penny Whistle
Tin Whistle or Penny Whistle
When I play my whistles at school, people often ask what the instrument I am playing is. I usually answer "Tin Whistle," but I would like to know which name is actually used more widely.
# Posted on March 2nd 2008 by peterthepiper
Re: Tin Whistle or Penny Whistle
I like to say "Irish Whistle" since it more accurately reflects what I play -- Irish traditional music. But aside from that -- I'd say tin whistle -- among Trad folks.
# Posted on March 2nd 2008 by justwhistle
Re: Tin Whistle or Penny Whistle
I also call it "Irish whistle" since it's not the actual instrument that distinguishes what I play - it's the style and ornamentation I'm trying to achieve. The same tin whistle/penny whistle can be used to play Scottish music - therefore it's a Scottish whistle .... etc etc.
# Posted on March 2nd 2008 by buttons 'n' whistles
Re: Tin Whistle or Penny Whistle
I also say Irish whistle. Anything's better than "recorder".
# Posted on March 2nd 2008 by mehitabel23
Re: Tin Whistle or Penny Whistle
Interesting about the people who call it "Irish Whistle". You guys all know that it's an English instrument, right?
# Posted on March 2nd 2008 by benhall.1
Re: Tin Whistle or Penny Whistle
They're not made of tin in most cases, they cost a lot more than a penny, and you don't referee games with them (as in simple "whistle"). Seems as though you're lying in your teeth whatever you call them.
I call it a tin whistle, or a pennywhistle, and - like mehitabel - urge on people the fact that IT'S NOT A RECORDER!!! - I expostulate on its peculiar merits, and say, "...No holes in the back!"
But of course the new, sophisticated ones are starting to sprout holes in the back.
# Posted on March 2nd 2008 by nicholas
Re: Tin Whistle or Penny Whistle
The Zouk is Greek, The Accordion (as we know it) is probably German, The Fiddle is Italian via Asia/Africa, The Guitar is fantastic and The Bodhran is quite possibly the only Irish instrument to truly represent our roots and history.....discuss.
# Posted on March 2nd 2008 by strayaway
Re: Tin Whistle or Penny Whistle
"The Bodhran is quite possibly the only Irish instrument to truly represent our roots and history.....discuss."
The Bodhran is of course a copy of the Wiltshire Riddle Drum and only became common in Irish music in the 1960's. So not Irish and not traditional.
I'll get my coat.
# Posted on March 2nd 2008 by goldfrog
Re: Tin Whistle or Penny Whistle
I've got involved in this "the fiddle is Italian" myth argument before, and it always ends in tears ... Ah well, here goes again. [sigh]
The fiddle's antecedents can't really be placed geographically. Maybe they came from Asia/Africa, but there were instruments that were so bloody close to being a fiddle in "the islands consisting of the UK and Ireland" (God, I'm getting sick of these bleeding PC euphemisms) so long ago, that you can really count the thing as indigenous.
Meanwhile, the modern violin could quite probably have developed in these islands before it did in Italy. Certainly the best in the world were made here before the Italians got in on the act and started copying them and then improved on them. The history of violin making in these islands is sometimes referred to as being represented by the letter 'W', thought of as a graph. In other words, first we produced the best in the world, then the best were elsewhere (the first downward point on the 'W') then in the 18c we produced the best again (round about Peter Walmesley & co), then someone else took over again, and the 20c saw a resurgence in the craft in these islands.
On the basis of the above, I don't see the violin as an Italian instrument. I think that would be a bit like saying that the motorbike is a Japanese thing.
However, going back to the tin whistle, the Clarke company were an English company. The reason it was called a 'Penny Whistle' is, of course, because that's what they sold them for when they produced them in the 19c, as a novelty instrument, which apparently was popular in music hall for a while.
# Posted on March 2nd 2008 by benhall.1
Re: Tin Whistle or Penny Whistle
I agree with buttons n whistles. I call it the whistle myself and I play mostly Scottish music. To me it is a Scottish whistle when I'm playing it and an Irish whistle when an Irishman is playing it. I don't particularly care about the origins of instruments. The Zouk as we know it in Irish music is not played like it is in the Med. Don't let anybody bull you, it's the Irish bouzouki in Irish music. The bodhran is not an English riddle drum it's an Irish bodhran.
People always think their clever when they come up to a Scottish piper like myself and boldly claim "the bagpipes aren't Scottish". Well we can't claim every type of bagpipe but the GHB are Scottish. The form they now take was developed here. I know this because there are ancient generic sets in Dunvegan castle (MacCrimmon) about 3 miles from my house. Show almost anyone in the world GHB and ask them where they are from. Or show people a bodhran they will probably say Irish. And all that rubbish about Irish pipes not actually being Irish because there may have been bellow pipes in England. Different music different animal. A fiddle and a violin look the same but are different instruments.
Clarkes may have made the whistle as a novelty but the Irish made it an instrument.
# Posted on March 2nd 2008 by bogman
Re: Tin Whistle or Penny Whistle
Wiki:
L.E. McCullough notes that the oldest surviving whistles date from the 12th century, but that, "Players of the feadan are also mentioned in the description of the King of Ireland's court found in the Brehon Laws dating from the 3rd century A.D."[1] The Tusculum whistle is a 14cm whistle with six finger holes, made of brass or bronze, found with pottery dating to the 14th and 15th centuries; it's currently in the collection of the Museum of Scotland.[2]
The term "penny whistle" was coined on the streets of Dublin in the late 1500's because of the whistles' prevalence among the beggars and vagabonds in Ireland. The word "tin-whistle" was also coined as early as 1825.[3] but neither word seems to have been common until the 20th century.[4] The first record of tin-plate whistles dates back to 1825 in Britain.[5]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tin_whistle
...and then there's those 9,000 year old bones with holes drilled in the they find in archaeological digs. That's why I play an authentic bone whistle. "Yup, this one right here I'm playing now was made by Shaman Ogg himself right before being eaten by a sabre-tooth tiger..."
# Posted on March 2nd 2008 by SWFL Fiddler
Re: Tin Whistle or Penny Whistle
Surely the Bodhran type drum originated in Middle Eastern countries? I was born in 1936 in the Irish midlands and was listening to ITM from when I was a kid. Yet the first Bodhran I saw been battered in time to the music was sometime in the sixties. (I use the term 'Batter' because I remember that's exactly how the guy was playing it at the time)
# Posted on March 2nd 2008 by Free Reed
Re: Tin Whistle or Penny Whistle
You may be right about origins there Free Reed, but there are similar single skinned drums all over the world. IMO it's the context it is used in than rather than the oldest surviving record that is most important. As far as I'm aware it is not called the bodhran when used in other cultures. The instrument that JJ Kelly plays may look like other single skinned drums but thats where most similarities end. If I was Irish I would claim the drum used in Irish music is an Irish bodhran.
# Posted on March 2nd 2008 by bogman
Re: Tin Whistle or Penny Whistle
In fact, though I'm Scottish, I'll still claim the drum used in ITM is the Irish bodhran. In Scotland it is simply the bodhran, where it originated doesn't seem to matter much.
# Posted on March 2nd 2008 by bogman
Re: Tin Whistle or Penny Whistle
"A fiddle and a violin look the same but are different instruments."
Are you saying, bogman, that it doesn't matter what the instrument itself is, it's what you play on it that counts? In which case, I can go with that. Meanwhile, of course, the fiddle and the violin are *physically* identical. Just to be clear ...
Oh, but then, there's the setup (as opposed to the instrument itself) - metal strings possibly, flatter, lower bridge, weaker, therefore bendier bow which may be over-tightened ... must be more, but can't think of any for the moment.
Sorry for the fiddle interlude. Carry on with the whistles. Good stuff.
# Posted on March 2nd 2008 by benhall.1
Re: Tin Whistle or Penny Whistle
If I remember right, the best material for a bone whistle is the legbone of a swan, but I can't find that reference, so here's a sheep bone whistle instead
http://www.gtj.org.uk/en/item1/8630
# Posted on March 2nd 2008 by wolfbird
Re: Tin Whistle or Penny Whistle
Yes Benhall, that is what I mean
# Posted on March 2nd 2008 by bogman
Re: Tin Whistle or Penny Whistle
When is a violin not a fiddle ? When it's a crwth ? There's not that much difference in the basic idea, and crwths were being bowed in the 11th C. long before the Italian violin makers became famous..
"The crwth was originally an instrument similar to the lyre, played by plucking the strings with the fingers. First mentioned in Welsh literature in the tenth century, the instrument was played with a bow from the eleventh century onwards."
http://www.gtj.org.uk/en/item1/19208
# Posted on March 2nd 2008 by wolfbird
Re: Tin Whistle or Penny Whistle
I have heard it call Flageolet but not in many Traditional
sessions..=
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flageolet
jim,,,
# Posted on March 2nd 2008 by FIDDLE4
Re: Tin Whistle or Penny Whistle
That's because flageolet is a different instrument.
# Posted on March 2nd 2008 by benhall.1
Re: Tin Whistle or Penny Whistle
benhall.
Oh I see - Thanks,,
jim,,,
# Posted on March 2nd 2008 by FIDDLE4
Re: Tin Whistle or Penny Whistle
When faced with such queries, I usually prefer the term New-Anglo-Celtic-Penny-Flageo-Wind-Whistle-Thingie, as this most acurately reflects my dry and dusty academic scholarly approach to this whole critically serious ITM... thing.
Or I just call it a whistle.
So there.
Nyah.
Good luck, all.
# Posted on March 2nd 2008 by Rook
Re: Tin Whistle or Penny Whistle
I have agree that the manner in which an instrument is used is the definition of that instrument. I cite the following example: Kitchen Dancing (foot percussion) is considered around here to be a Quebecois tradition, but almost every culture has feet.
# Posted on March 2nd 2008 by toumi
Re: Tin Whistle or Penny Whistle
Fine as far as whistle goes, I suppose. The problem for fiddle is that that's what classical players - at least in the UK - call it as well: a "fiddle".
# Posted on March 2nd 2008 by benhall.1
Re: Tin Whistle or Penny Whistle
Sorry slightly off track just a moment -
{"The Bodhran is quite possibly the only Irish instrument}
I was told the Irish Ullian Pipes was an Irish instrument ????
JIM,,
# Posted on March 2nd 2008 by FIDDLE4
Re: Tin Whistle or Penny Whistle
The uilleann pipes probably descend from the French pastoral pipes (bellows-blown) that seem to have been invented in the c17; the same applies to the Northumbrian and Border pipes and the Scottish smallpipes, at least in their bellows-powered forms as we have them now. But I've seen no real evidence that the uilleann pipes were developed outside of Ireland, except insofar as the principle of using bellows (I believe) would have been introduced to Ireland, either directly from France or indirectly via England, Scotland or Wales.
The recorded history of the development of the uilleann pipes does seem to have mysterious gaps in it. But if the "gentleman pipers" of the c18 were playing the full chanter range, and even more if regulators had come in by them, the instrument was more advanced at that time than the Northumbrian pipes, which only started to acquire their full range around or after 1800.
# Posted on March 2nd 2008 by nicholas
Re: Tin Whistle or Penny Whistle
I use the term 'whistle' or 'penny whistle'.
I use just 'whistle' more often.
# Posted on March 2nd 2008 by Aiki
Re: Tin Whistle or Penny Whistle
nicholas
Thank you for this pipes Information-
And now back to the ..
Tin Whistle I call it ,But in my Granda's time they only ever
called it The Penny Whistle,,
jim,,,
# Posted on March 2nd 2008 by FIDDLE4
Re: Tin Whistle or Penny Whistle
All I know is if you eat too many they make you fart.........we are talking about flageolets here aren't we?
# Posted on March 3rd 2008 by Key Maniac Lad
Re: Tin Whistle or Penny Whistle
I think you're refering to the famous "Flattulet" there. A very similar instrument - just not "mouth-blown".
I think I'll go with Rook here and stick to "New-Anglo-Celtic-Penny-Flageo-Wind-Whistle-Thingie" or NACPFWWT for short.
Gotta go practice on my Nacpfwwt now.
# Posted on March 3rd 2008 by Mozle
Re: Tin Whistle or Penny Whistle
Well I don't know about the rest of the world but in Ireland it's usually just called a Whistle or Tin Whistle, I've never heard anyone here calling it a penny whistle. But being in Ireland theres no need to explain to anyone what type of music or instrument you're playing when you just say "whistle". This would of course be different in other countries. In Italy for eg. they call it "il flauto Irlandese" which is technically incorrect as this means the Irish flute, but that's how they refer to it because it's not an instrument they see very often. So basically who gives a damn what people call it once they understand what you're talking about and of course once they don't call it a recorder!
# Posted on March 3rd 2008 by blaydo
Re: Tin Whistle or Penny Whistle
The whistle was originally invented millions of years ago by the aboriginal peoples of the Antipodes - but over the centuries they have improved and modernised the instrument by removing the fipple and blocking up all those annoying little holes - a labour-saving improvement for the fingers. In the early days they used to let the mud-wasps block the holes up for them - but this was a bit of a dream-time waster - so they eventually took to sealing the holes with mud themselves. This of course was heavily frowned upon by the traditionalists amongst them, but eventually became the accepted way. Nowadays they don't even go to the trouble of drilling the holes they used to block - ahh! such is progress - and of course the correct name for the whistle is the "didge".
# Posted on March 3rd 2008 by jamascc
Re: Tin Whistle or Penny Whistle
Sounds somewhat parallel to the way we got from Mozart to Philip Glass!
# Posted on March 3rd 2008 by nicholas
Re: Tin Whistle or Penny Whistle
it's also lovingly referred to as the "penny-didge", the "tin-didge", the "Irish-didge", the "Scottish-didge" .....
# Posted on March 3rd 2008 by jamascc
Re: Tin Whistle or Penny Whistle
Our modern style whistles may have been "invented" by Clarke, but there have been whistle like instruments throughout history in many cultures, and I'm sure Irish music used whistles before Clarke first made tin whistles.
I usually call it a pennywhistle, but just because I think it rolls of the tung better than tin whistle.
# Posted on March 3rd 2008 by Boody
Re: Tin Whistle or Penny Whistle
In the US, say "penny whistle", or magical leprechaun flute. Anywhere else, just say tin whistle or whistle.
# Posted on March 3rd 2008 by Björn
Re: Tin Whistle or Penny Whistle
I say thing-a-ma-jig.
# Posted on March 3rd 2008 by Bodhi
Re: Tin Whistle or Penny Whistle
"Magical leprechaun flute" - I like it!
# Posted on March 3rd 2008 by nicholas
Re: Tin Whistle or Penny Whistle
My daughter and wife call mine .. Derek's tooter!!!!
D
# Posted on March 3rd 2008 by Welshman
Re: Tin Whistle or Penny Whistle
fipple flute ~
(don't hit me, my glasses might break!)
# Posted on March 3rd 2008 by ceolachan
Re: Tin Whistle or Penny Whistle
Thanks for all the information!
# Posted on March 3rd 2008 by peterthepiper
Re: Tin Whistle or Penny Whistle
While where the instrument originated may be interesting information, when people ask what the instrument is, it's probably sufficient to say Irish, Penny or Tin Whistle or whatever else you would like (Scottish or whatever.)
Personally I lean to Tin or Penny Whistle because if the person who asks decides to go to the music shop and buy one, they're more likely to be steered toward the correct instrument if they ask the clerk where the tin or penny whistles are.
# Posted on March 3rd 2008 by sbhikes
Re: Tin Whistle or Penny Whistle
"leaky plumbing"
# Posted on March 3rd 2008 by ceolachan
Re: Tin Whistle or Penny Whistle
Clarke from Norfolk/Suffolk England invented the whistle. He was a farm worker and was sacked by his boss for paying too much time with his whistles. He went to London and started a business making whistles. It did very well and he eventually returned to Norfolk where her bought the old farm where he used to work ! At the sessions in Norfolk it was known as the penny whistle. I used to but penny whistles from the car boot sales in Norfolk but never achieved buying one for a penny. When I left Norfolk I my own stand at a car boot sale and got my own back on the Norfolk folk by selling the spare whistles I had acquired for just one penny each.
# Posted on March 3rd 2008 by Sandy Holdom
Re: Tin Whistle or Penny Whistle
Your first sentence is most definately rubbish.
# Posted on March 3rd 2008 by bogman
Re: Tin Whistle or Penny Whistle
The rest I'm sure is perfectly true.
# Posted on March 3rd 2008 by bogman
Re: Tin Whistle or Penny Whistle
The full version of the wikipedia info already posted earlier.....
L.E. McCullough notes that the oldest surviving whistles date from the 12th century, but that, "Players of the feadan are also mentioned in the description of the King of Ireland's court found in the Brehon Laws dating from the 3rd century A.D."[1] The Tusculum whistle is a 14cm whistle with six finger holes, made of brass or bronze, found with pottery dating to the 14th and 15th centuries; it's currently in the collection of the Museum of Scotland.[2]
The term "penny whistle" was coined on the streets of Dublin in the late 1500's because of the whistles' prevalence among the beggars and vagabonds in Ireland. The word "tin-whistle" was also coined as early as 1825.[3] but neither word seems to have been common until the 20th century.[4] The first record of tin-plate whistles dates back to 1825 in Britain.[5]
The first factory-made "tinwhistles" were produced by Robert Clarke (? - 1882) in Manchester and later New Moston, England. Up to 1900, they were also marketed as "Clarke London Flageolets" or "Clarke Flageolets".[6] The whistle's fingering system is similar to that of the six hole, simple system, "Irish flute" ("simple" in comparison to Boehm system flutes). The six hole, diatonic system is also used on baroque flutes and other folk flutes, and was of course well known before Robert Clarke began producing his tin whistles circa 1843. Clarke's first whistle, the Meg, was pitched in high A and was later made in other keys suitable for Victorian parlor music. The company showed the whistles in The Great Exhibition of 1851.[7]
In the second half of the 19th century, some flute manufacturers such as Barnett Samuel and Joseph Wallis also sold whistles. These had a cylindrical brass tube. Like many old whistles, they had lead fipple plugs; since lead is poisonous, caution should be exercised before playing an old whistle.
The Generation whistle was introduced in the first half of the 20th century, and also featured a brass tube with a lead fipple plug. The design was updated somewhat over the years, most notably the substitution of a plastic fipple for the lead plug design.
While whistles have most often been produced in higher pitches, the "low" whistle is not unknown historically. The Museum of Fine Arts, Boston has in its collection an example of a 19th century low whistle from the famous Galpin collection.[8] During the 1960s revival of traditional Irish music the low whistle was "recreated" by Bernard Overton at the request of Finbar Furey.[9]
# Posted on March 3rd 2008 by bogman
Re: Tin Whistle or Penny Whistle
In Northumberland or maybe Durham / Tyneside there was a character called Billy Conroy who played, exclusively, whistles he had made from bicycle pumps and the like; a few surviving recordings indicate he was a spirited and pretty good player on them. I wonder if he made his own to get away from lead mouthpieces. The FARNE website has the odd clip of his playing.
Whistle doesn't seem to have played much part in Northumbrian trad, however, at least in the decades before the late c20 folk revival.
# Posted on March 4th 2008 by nicholas
Re: Tin Whistle or Penny Whistle
( - Though there was Billy Ballantine in Northumberland who played piccolo - John Doonan was not the only one in the region!)
# Posted on March 4th 2008 by nicholas
Re: Tin Whistle or Penny Whistle
Thanks Bogman for correcting me. After checking, Robert Clarke from Coney Weston, Suffolk, England, started his tin whistle company in Manchester, not London in 1843. The rest is true.
# Posted on March 5th 2008 by Sandy Holdom