I checked to see if this discussion had been done before, and maybe the search facility doesn't go back far enough, but I'm surprised it hasn't been done. Apologies if I'm wrong and I'm going over old ground (all these discussions sound the same?), but again there are probably enough newbies now to give this one a fresh angle.
What do you say/do/think when someone says something like diddly/Folk...(for they would never refer to it as Irish Music)...all sounds the same.
Would it depend on who made the remark?
Eg, would a teeny pop music fan merit the same response from you as you'd give to a right-up-themselves classical head?
Also, do you know when to interpret false patronising praise for what it is, when what they really mean is "all that stuff just sounds the same"...
Yeah, and while I'm at it, WRT the "it-all-sounds-the-same" brigade - Q: are they curable? A: some may be, by subtle increase in exposure and explanation, if they are genuinely willing to be saved, but there are others, who **come to sessions!!** but don't like "mindless diddling"..!!!??!??!!....go figure that one.
Danny.
PS: nice understandable answers, please, not aeolian modes theory and all that palava, thanks.
If they can't appreciate the richness of it...their loss. Depending on the person, place, and time, I might make an effort to help them see (hear?) the light.
With others, such as my testosterone-poisoned teenage son, who refers to ITM as "leprechaun lucky charmed" I take it as a back handed compliment. They wouldn't be commenting on it at all, if it hadn't caught their attention.
erm... I'd say interpret their body language/tone of voice... go from there. You can tell if someone's just being a horses arse and not worth the time within 5 minutes or so.
I got my wonderful dad to pick up a guitar he hadn't touched in 15 years just because I was so excited with learning to play... must say love for music can spread like wildfire... if you're dealing with the right sort of folk.
Because I've just started, I have had many a crazy person come up to me during a session and say, "It all sounds the same......blah, blah, blah" and then lecture me on why it sounds the same, and then closes with "So I don't know why you are having such trouble playing....." : /
I too smile and nod along, and then continue to enjoy the music because I don't need people like that to tell me what about the music makes me smile so wide, and get all giddy when someone mentions a tune that I really enjoy.......and no, I don't mean you all as *those people* .....of course not!!! )))
Or take Barry Foy's approach...of course it all sounds the same, and good for us too, that's how you know it's Irish music and not Moravian nose flute music....
What people really mean is it all sounds the same *to me*.
There are some pretty self-evident differences in Irish music ... but I reckon the average punter would have difficulty telling the difference between a reel and hornpipe, a jig and a slide, a polka and a march, a waltz and a mazurka let alone the subtle diferences between some of the tunes within those broad churches whose structures and cadences are similar but which, to the ears of the initiated such as ourselves, contain those vital hooks and twists that distinguish them one from the other.
It doesn't matter a damn what people think, at the end of the day. To pursue traditional music is to explore a very particular niche. It's quite a hard place to stand ... because of the fact that the music is often derided and fellow-travellers are often few and far between and, let's face it, it's DIFFICULT. If the begrudgers only knew the amount of dedication required to get a decent tune out of a fiddle, box, banjo, pipes! If they only knew how all-consuming the quest for musical satisfaction can become. I've lost sleep over my inability to get to grips with a tune (and I'm not someone who sets great store by having a mammoth repertoire ...); I've got lost at work, in meetings, playing a tune over and over in my head; my family have barracked me for picking up my mandolin first thing in the morning before I've even put the kettle on!
Those to whom it all sounds the same probably wouldn't understand that level of engrossment. But I reckon many here will not only understand, not only sympathise, but nod approval!
Anyway ... as Farmer Michael Hayes said ... "a fig for all my foes!"
As a relative newcomer to all this (and an inveterate lurker) I thought I'd stick my oar in. As my playing progresses I've noticed that tunes I thought horrendous/unplayable/how can anybody like that enough to learn it, become both interesting and playable. I have noticed the same thing with my wife as she has given into my obsession by learning the whistle. A tune which six months ago she would say did nothing for her she will now say thats nice whats that and learn it. I liken it to say learning to read. To the illiterate evrey page of writing looks the same, learn the basics and you can read the news or a story, when you're fluent you can make out the nuances of language and read between the lines. The tune that really brought this home to me was the Concertina reel. I could never see the point in this tune, in fact I could never see the tune in this tune, now I really enjoy it.
It may be just me but it seems I have not met many people, apart from dancers, who enjoy a range of traditional music without being players. It's a language that some of us are lucky enough to speak, some better than others, and every day I give thanks that I have discovered it and that every day I understand and enjoy it more.
I think any genre of music you don't know will tend to all sound the same. People who don't like opera can't distinguish between one aria and another because all they hear are the stylistic mannerisms of the singing - it's all just a load of horrible wailing. Ditto with Irish session music, they just hear the style, not the tunes.
Of course, because of the way that the tunes have evolved, a lot do sound rather 'all the same'. I would defy anyone who wasn't very au fait with the music to listen to, say, Condon's Frolics and Sliabh Russell, and not think they were listening to the same tune.... probably they were once the same tune, who knows?
There is a tendancy among diddlers to concentrate on the little turns in a tune which set it apart from its near neighbour. Just for a change, and I know that this is to change the habit of a lifetime, try to look for the similarities in tunes. Not only will this help you to spot really great and distinctive tunes, it should help to re-afirm your love of the stuff
I've noticed, when I'm up at the bar in the Woodman, the Duke, or wherever, maybe only 20 feet away from the sesh, I can only hear the fiddle and the banjo diddly-diddly-ing away. I can't exactly distnguish what the tune is, and all the punters are yapping away, then I have to admit it does all sound very same-y.
If that's the experience of yer average pub geezer of The Music, particularly since most of them will have had a couple of pints to dull the senses, then I suppose I shouldn't be too surprised if they think it all sounds the same.
I have to disagree with Aidan and Davetnova, though. It does matter a damn what people think - if enough people didn't like this stuff which all sounds the same, then we could start losing sessions. It's always in our interests to keep in good terms with the punters, and the Governors (not that an FGM like yourself would do otherwise, Aidan), and try and dispell the myth that it all sounds the same. And Davet., I have met a fair number of non-players/dancers who love the music, and can distinguish what's what, but they are in the minority, and tend to hang about with the musicians anyway!
I know you're no fan of acronyms generally (except where you can use them to humorous advantage, wink, wink). So I'm puzzled. What does FGM stand for?
Ever the optimist, I'm presuming it's a massive compliment. we know that Jeremy doesn't like swearing in the site ... quite right, too ... so I'm going to have be more circumlocutory than I would normally be. (Being, on occasions, too forthright for my own good!)
So ... does it stand for for "Word that begins with f and rhymes with clucking" Giant of the Music?
There are certain styles and genres of music that I'm not very familiar or acquainted with such as classical music. I know very little about this stuff. I have Vivaldi , Yo Yo Ma and a few various compilations. But to me classical music sounds the same. I can appreciate the technical aspects of the music, but I loose interest very quickly. I have gone to symphonies and have actually fallen asleep. I'm sure if I spent time learning about classical music, it wouldn't sound all the same.
I have spent years listening to Rock, Jazz, Blues, World & Folk music so I have never felt "it all sounds the same". I have recently spent tons of time learning and playing Irish Music, so it doesn't sound the same to me. Perhaps if I knew nothing about the music, the jigs, reels and hornpipes might sound all the same....
Danny I think the more familiar and educated about a certain type of music, the less it sounds "all the same". I tell people that if they start listening closely and learning about the Music, it won't sound the same.
I'm just a simple girl from the inner city projects who couldn't come up with a fancy elaborate theory even if I so desired ; )
I hope I didn't offend any classical musicians out there : )
I take it inner city projects are what we refer to here as housing scemes, or council estates, or some such.
Besides me I'm sure there are many others on this site from similar backgrounds. It doesn't worry me in the slightest.
I used to listen quite extensively to classical music, before I got The Bug. Mozart to me sounds very same-y. I suppose he did a lot with limited material though. There. I've gone and offended some people now also.
I get so angry when people with no knowlaedge come up to me and say that it all sounds the same.
No matter what your arguements are or how good they are they won't admit that it doesn't sound the same. And the last time one of those bastards tried to take me down with his very silly and bad arguements I was 1 inch from beating him down in pure frustration. And about that rap and pop thing: That really sounds the same, and that ain't even difficult to make. I'm not going to mention pop groups names, but I really hate some of them, and the fact that most youths like it and thinks it's good make me wanna go and shoot myself because no matter what I say I'm a youth to.
So Danny, what do you think about all this?
ok... about to contradict what i said before... and in a much more relaxed (drunken) state right now... are you sure that the people who ask these silly questions aren't completely pissed... if not... maybe they should be (teehee!)... was reading over stuff about classical music... really... if you aren't terribly interested/invested in something doesn't it all seem about the same... goes for art, music, languages (take Japanese/Chinese...), etc... just another random perspective...
I agree with Alisha. If you don't have an interest in a certain type of music, it's probably going to sound "all the same".
If someone comes up to me at a session and tells me that it sounds the same, I don't really take it to heart. Everyone's entitled to their own opinions. Some local-yocal approached me at Irish Arts Week in the Catskills and told me "it all sounds the same". I told him that if he learned more about the music and played an instrument, it wouldn't sound the same. He wanted to argue about this, but I just walked away, mostly because the assh*ole was starting to bore me.
i used to have a very big down on 'country&western' stuff but then when someone made me listen to some good examples of it i changed my mind.i still don't like the more mawkish/commercial emanations but it's now stopped sounding all the same to me.
i would think the same applies to just about any other genre as well.i've noticed some especially gratuitous and vitriolic comments about rap music in some threads.
like: it all sounds the same.
as said above,it all depends if people's minds are open or closed.you can debate with the former,i would n't bother with the latter.
Danny,if the punters like it does n't seem to cut much ice with some managements - the punters really enjoyed the music at that session in new cross but that did n't stop him from turning it into a tapas bar and getting in the jazz.
mind you,what do i know - i like all that plainchant stuff but that still sounds all the same to me,or near enough!
If someone manages the audacity to say to me "it all sounds the same", I just send my condolences to their lack of education and either congratulate them on being bold enough to proclaim their ignorance or let them know "oh... i'm so embarrassed for you.."
There are so many ways of saying it, though... someone could be dismissive, confrontational, or politely baffled. So my response entirely depends on what the attitude is. A friend did recently say 'it all sounds the same' to me. He'd been at a session where Martin Hayes was playing, and reported that 'apparently he was a really well-known fiddle player' but although he could tell he was quite good, he seemed a bit baffled by all the excitement. I just assured him that once you get to know a few tunes, they don't sound the same any more. It's up to him if he wants to get any closer to the music or not. He's a boogie-woogie pianist himself, and if that's his thing, that's his thing. As long as he doesn't make insulting remarks or arrogant statements about the music, I don't care. Or at least, I'm not going to evangelise...
But a drunken regular at another session (one of that strange breed Danny mentioned earlier, who goes to a really top-rate session on a regular basis but hates the music) was much more aggressive about it. e.g. 'there's nothing to this music, it's all the same. How can you actually like it?' So I was rude in return and just said that if he couldn't hear it, that was his loss... and walked off, as he was getting very boring.
Ah well, he's a bitter drunk - what can you do? The sad thing is that his sick mind - which insists on clinging to a narrow, prejudiced, frozen view of things and can't open out to fresh possibilities - has also painted him into a tragic alcoholic corner in which the whole world is apparently against him. If he could open it to Irish music (which is right there for the taking, in his local, week after week) he could probably open it to other options in his life as well. So it's hard to be angry with him - yes, he's a wanker, but I feel very sorry for him.
Actually, Bigdave, Hank Williams rates as one of my greatest ever "Heroes"( ! ), ie, the man who wrote Jambalaya, You Win Again, Your Cheatin' Heart, and many more, then was found slumped dead in his car, choked on vom after drinking yet another bottle of whisky. Just goes to show you'll get geniuses popping up in all sorts of genres, even allegedly simple ones like C&W.
Yeah, Dave, but New Cross is all about Location, location, location. Yer governor is only doing what is good business for his job. Who would have thought? New Cross becoming gentrified? Soon the Old Kent Road will be the new New Cross.
Just 'lorrved' yer method of advising those chaps at the bar, the other night, that they might not have been maintaining the beat as precisely as was required. A 6' 3" grizzly bear, cunningly diguised as a fiddle player, playing 1' away, often convinces even the most inebriated to try and keep better time - or shut the f**k up!!
How am I legitimately supposed to be able to complain about how repetitive pop music is if the people who enjoy pop music know that Irish tunes are repetitive by nature?
I'll take one "it all sounds the same!" from a stranger for every time I say "change the station, he's said 'baby I love you' fourteen times in a row now!".
not that size matters,Zina, but i'm 6' 4" and a bit,that's an important bit,mind you,arf,arf.
skinny squirrels,my arse - i ask you! why dya think i'm known as bigdave?? no,don't answer that,or it 'll be disappointment all the way!
i appreciate your comments,Danny, but i thought i was rather tactful,nay,diplomatic even, with regard to the payphone bashers!
BTW, Suky, I used to amuse myself by talking back to pop songs. Usually they're either so co-dependent or just plain neurotic that it's great fun to yell things at the song -- "you b*s*d!" "Stalker!" "don't be an idiot, he'll only beat you!"
One of the beauties of traditional British and Irish and European dance music is the large number of rhythms available. In what other genre of music would you encounter 4/4, 2/4, 6/8, 6/4, 12/8, 9/8, 3/4, 3/8, 3/2, 5/4, 7/4, 11/8, on a regular basis.
Around 3 years ago, when I started going to the Woodman's & Hardy's sessions they all sounded the same to me and I was impatient to get into the music so that it would all split into different tunes which it did after 4 or 5 sessions. Of course, there are some that just stand out straight away. Having got into bluegrass two years before that, I had found the same situation (and it's not all diddling banjos and dungarees, you get some bluegrass with classical, folky, bluesy or jazzy styles). I found the same variety in country music and opera, some of which I love, and some of which I hate. You get that situation when you go to a gig and don't know the material of the act. Even when you buy a cd, the stuff all sounds the same. I remember first hearing a tribute to Bob Wills by Asleep at the Wheel, featuring a different singer per song. It all sounded old fashioned and samey to me at first, but over ten years later, that's still one of my favourite records. Anyway, I've found that "I buried my wife and danced on her grave" "the old hag's purse" and "Rambling pitchfork" do sound very similar and I sometimes go from part A of one into part B of the other - so they sometimes do sound a bit the same, but if you like the sound anyway, what's the big deal. More of the same please.
Hey PP - maybe not in another genre of music, but that all looks like bookie's odds to me.
Cath - you're right - some of the tunes ARE very close to each other. That's part of the fun, keeping to the one you're meant to be playing, but it doesn't always happen! Witness Jack, last night, very good banjo player, at one point, crashed from one tune into another, cos the second parts were similar. I believe the concensus view is that often the 2-3 tunes which are close were at one time the same tune, but acquired a regional accent, as I imagine prior to the 20th century, fewer people read music, and there was obviously no recorded music, so tunes were allowed to change accordingly. Eurotrad or Eurotrash?
I agree with the idea that any new genre of music will 'sound the same' to unfamiliar ears.
Last night I was driving home late (185 miles to get to the Home Depot/movie theater each way) & I was listening to a new agey radio show featuring trad Asian Indian music ie sitar, drums etc, which morphed into traditional Navajo songs ie drums & vocals (as I lost one radio signal & picked up another), & you really think to yourself, wow these really do sound all alike... I think anyone who has been in a foreign culture & turned on a local radio station can vouch for the same experience be it Norway, Ecuador, Zimbabwe or Indonesia. Our human ears are looking for patterns, & until they show themselves, we're lost in the muddle, though perhaps still enjoying the ride. I think the key here is motivation to *want* to understand.
To me, it's like going to France and marveling at how fast everyone talks.
"And -- can you imagine? -- even all the little kids here have learned to speak it!"
Danny --> just sorta meant that earlier comment tounge in cheek... (i really am painfully polite - ask kerri)
As much as i'd like to say something like that en la vive vrai, i do think that by treating someone with disrespect I'd be doing the same thing we're disapproving of... Showing disrespect towards something or someone which one knows very little about.
anyway, i wrote something rather longwinded just as the site went down... so this is the abridged version.
I think that the people that says that, and that have already apened to me also, should take a more atempive listen to raves and that kind of "fashion" music for example... that all sounds the same, unfortunatly, that kind of sounds has only a few years old... are they shure it
It all sounds the same
It all sounds the same
I checked to see if this discussion had been done before, and maybe the search facility doesn't go back far enough, but I'm surprised it hasn't been done. Apologies if I'm wrong and I'm going over old ground (all these discussions sound the same?), but again there are probably enough newbies now to give this one a fresh angle.
What do you say/do/think when someone says something like diddly/Folk...(for they would never refer to it as Irish Music)...all sounds the same.
Would it depend on who made the remark?
Eg, would a teeny pop music fan merit the same response from you as you'd give to a right-up-themselves classical head?
Also, do you know when to interpret false patronising praise for what it is, when what they really mean is "all that stuff just sounds the same"...
Yeah, and while I'm at it, WRT the "it-all-sounds-the-same" brigade - Q: are they curable? A: some may be, by subtle increase in exposure and explanation, if they are genuinely willing to be saved, but there are others, who **come to sessions!!** but don't like "mindless diddling"..!!!??!??!!....go figure that one.
Danny.
PS: nice understandable answers, please, not aeolian modes theory and all that palava, thanks.
# Posted on May 15th 2003 by Rudall the time
Re: It all sounds the same
I'd hazard a guess that Danny's comments above apply in reverse to all you mindless diddlers when it comes to rap music...
# Posted on May 15th 2003 by Concertina Player
Re: It all sounds the same
Smile politely, agree with them, excuse yourself, and go on about your life.
# Posted on May 15th 2003 by darinkelly
Re: It all sounds the same
Danny, try the Glasgae Kiss. They won't say it again after that
# Posted on May 15th 2003 by Dr. Dow
Re: It all sounds the same
Is that a tune title or a martial arts technique?
# Posted on May 15th 2003 by emily_bmore
Re: It all sounds the same
Glaswegian martial arts, I guess you could call it!
# Posted on May 15th 2003 by Dr. Dow
Re: It all sounds the same
If they can't appreciate the richness of it...their loss. Depending on the person, place, and time, I might make an effort to help them see (hear?) the light.
With others, such as my testosterone-poisoned teenage son, who refers to ITM as "leprechaun lucky charmed" I take it as a back handed compliment. They wouldn't be commenting on it at all, if it hadn't caught their attention.
# Posted on May 15th 2003 by ketida
Is a Glasgae kiss the same as a Bootle kiss?
# Posted on May 15th 2003 by ketida
Re: It all sounds the same
Yeah, Danny--"you can't argue with a crazy person" so why bother. Unless of course they are amiable and might enjoy being educated.
# Posted on May 15th 2003 by Andee
Re: It all sounds the same
erm... I'd say interpret their body language/tone of voice... go from there. You can tell if someone's just being a horses arse and not worth the time within 5 minutes or so.
I got my wonderful dad to pick up a guitar he hadn't touched in 15 years just because I was so excited with learning to play... must say love for music can spread like wildfire... if you're dealing with the right sort of folk.
with her two cents...
alisha
# Posted on May 15th 2003 by scaryakgrl
Re: It all sounds the same
Because I've just started, I have had many a crazy person come up to me during a session and say, "It all sounds the same......blah, blah, blah" and then lecture me on why it sounds the same, and then closes with "So I don't know why you are having such trouble playing....." : /
.....of course not!!! 
)))
I too smile and nod along, and then continue to enjoy the music because I don't need people like that to tell me what about the music makes me smile so wide, and get all giddy when someone mentions a tune that I really enjoy.......and no, I don't mean you all as *those people*
-Karen
# Posted on May 15th 2003 by BluFiddle
Re: It all sounds the same
Or take Barry Foy's approach...of course it all sounds the same, and good for us too, that's how you know it's Irish music and not Moravian nose flute music....
# Posted on May 15th 2003 by Will Harmon
Re: It all sounds the same
wait a minute. *doesn't* it all sound the same?
(runs away fast)
sarah
# Posted on May 15th 2003 by sarahc
Re: It all sounds the same
Danny ...
What people really mean is it all sounds the same *to me*.
There are some pretty self-evident differences in Irish music ... but I reckon the average punter would have difficulty telling the difference between a reel and hornpipe, a jig and a slide, a polka and a march, a waltz and a mazurka let alone the subtle diferences between some of the tunes within those broad churches whose structures and cadences are similar but which, to the ears of the initiated such as ourselves, contain those vital hooks and twists that distinguish them one from the other.
It doesn't matter a damn what people think, at the end of the day. To pursue traditional music is to explore a very particular niche. It's quite a hard place to stand ... because of the fact that the music is often derided and fellow-travellers are often few and far between and, let's face it, it's DIFFICULT. If the begrudgers only knew the amount of dedication required to get a decent tune out of a fiddle, box, banjo, pipes! If they only knew how all-consuming the quest for musical satisfaction can become. I've lost sleep over my inability to get to grips with a tune (and I'm not someone who sets great store by having a mammoth repertoire ...); I've got lost at work, in meetings, playing a tune over and over in my head; my family have barracked me for picking up my mandolin first thing in the morning before I've even put the kettle on!
Those to whom it all sounds the same probably wouldn't understand that level of engrossment. But I reckon many here will not only understand, not only sympathise, but nod approval!
Anyway ... as Farmer Michael Hayes said ... "a fig for all my foes!"
Sl
# Posted on May 15th 2003 by Aidan Crossey
Re: It all sounds the same
As a relative newcomer to all this (and an inveterate lurker) I thought I'd stick my oar in. As my playing progresses I've noticed that tunes I thought horrendous/unplayable/how can anybody like that enough to learn it, become both interesting and playable. I have noticed the same thing with my wife as she has given into my obsession by learning the whistle. A tune which six months ago she would say did nothing for her she will now say thats nice whats that and learn it. I liken it to say learning to read. To the illiterate evrey page of writing looks the same, learn the basics and you can read the news or a story, when you're fluent you can make out the nuances of language and read between the lines. The tune that really brought this home to me was the Concertina reel. I could never see the point in this tune, in fact I could never see the tune in this tune, now I really enjoy it.
It may be just me but it seems I have not met many people, apart from dancers, who enjoy a range of traditional music without being players. It's a language that some of us are lucky enough to speak, some better than others, and every day I give thanks that I have discovered it and that every day I understand and enjoy it more.
# Posted on May 15th 2003 by Davetnova
Re: It all sounds the same
I once met a very good jazz musician who thought that all the Haydn string quartets sounded the same - he really should have known better.
Trevor
# Posted on May 15th 2003 by Trevor Jennings
Re: It all sounds the same
I think any genre of music you don't know will tend to all sound the same. People who don't like opera can't distinguish between one aria and another because all they hear are the stylistic mannerisms of the singing - it's all just a load of horrible wailing. Ditto with Irish session music, they just hear the style, not the tunes.
Of course, because of the way that the tunes have evolved, a lot do sound rather 'all the same'. I would defy anyone who wasn't very au fait with the music to listen to, say, Condon's Frolics and Sliabh Russell, and not think they were listening to the same tune.... probably they were once the same tune, who knows?
# Posted on May 15th 2003 by Ottery
Re: It all sounds the same
There is a tendancy among diddlers to concentrate on the little turns in a tune which set it apart from its near neighbour. Just for a change, and I know that this is to change the habit of a lifetime, try to look for the similarities in tunes. Not only will this help you to spot really great and distinctive tunes, it should help to re-afirm your love of the stuff
# Posted on May 15th 2003 by ...
Re: It all sounds the same
I've noticed, when I'm up at the bar in the Woodman, the Duke, or wherever, maybe only 20 feet away from the sesh, I can only hear the fiddle and the banjo diddly-diddly-ing away. I can't exactly distnguish what the tune is, and all the punters are yapping away, then I have to admit it does all sound very same-y.
If that's the experience of yer average pub geezer of The Music, particularly since most of them will have had a couple of pints to dull the senses, then I suppose I shouldn't be too surprised if they think it all sounds the same.
I have to disagree with Aidan and Davetnova, though. It does matter a damn what people think - if enough people didn't like this stuff which all sounds the same, then we could start losing sessions. It's always in our interests to keep in good terms with the punters, and the Governors (not that an FGM like yourself would do otherwise, Aidan), and try and dispell the myth that it all sounds the same. And Davet., I have met a fair number of non-players/dancers who love the music, and can distinguish what's what, but they are in the minority, and tend to hang about with the musicians anyway!
Danny.
# Posted on May 15th 2003 by Rudall the time
An in-joke between Danny and myself ... please don't take offence!!!!!
Danny when I read your remark above "...tend to hang about with the musicians anyway", I thought you were referring to the SLOB contingent (Sp
# Posted on May 15th 2003 by Aidan Crossey
By the way ...
I know you're no fan of acronyms generally (except where you can use them to humorous advantage, wink, wink). So I'm puzzled. What does FGM stand for?
Ever the optimist, I'm presuming it's a massive compliment. we know that Jeremy doesn't like swearing in the site ... quite right, too ... so I'm going to have be more circumlocutory than I would normally be. (Being, on occasions, too forthright for my own good!)
So ... does it stand for for "Word that begins with f and rhymes with clucking" Giant of the Music?
(ha ha ha ha)
# Posted on May 15th 2003 by Aidan Crossey
Re: It all sounds the same
Aidan - you correctly guessed the first word. "Good, and, Man" are the other two.
TTFO.
Danny.
# Posted on May 15th 2003 by Rudall the time
Re: It all sounds the same
There are certain styles and genres of music that I'm not very familiar or acquainted with such as classical music. I know very little about this stuff. I have Vivaldi , Yo Yo Ma and a few various compilations. But to me classical music sounds the same. I can appreciate the technical aspects of the music, but I loose interest very quickly. I have gone to symphonies and have actually fallen asleep. I'm sure if I spent time learning about classical music, it wouldn't sound all the same.
I have spent years listening to Rock, Jazz, Blues, World & Folk music so I have never felt "it all sounds the same". I have recently spent tons of time learning and playing Irish Music, so it doesn't sound the same to me. Perhaps if I knew nothing about the music, the jigs, reels and hornpipes might sound all the same....
Danny I think the more familiar and educated about a certain type of music, the less it sounds "all the same". I tell people that if they start listening closely and learning about the Music, it won't sound the same.
I'm just a simple girl from the inner city projects who couldn't come up with a fancy elaborate theory even if I so desired ; )
I hope I didn't offend any classical musicians out there : )
Joyce
# Posted on May 16th 2003 by JMH
Schemies and Mozart.
I take it inner city projects are what we refer to here as housing scemes, or council estates, or some such.
Besides me I'm sure there are many others on this site from similar backgrounds. It doesn't worry me in the slightest.
I used to listen quite extensively to classical music, before I got The Bug. Mozart to me sounds very same-y. I suppose he did a lot with limited material though. There. I've gone and offended some people now also.
Danny.
# Posted on May 16th 2003 by Rudall the time
Re: It all sounds the same
Inner city projects, ghettos, slums, welfare housing....it's all the same miserable sh*t....luckily I got out....
Thanks Danny, I hate to be alone : )
I did once enjoy an outdoor concert with the Vermont Symphony Orchestra playing with the Moody Blues.
Joyce
# Posted on May 16th 2003 by JMH
Re: It all sounds the same
I get so angry when people with no knowlaedge come up to me and say that it all sounds the same.
No matter what your arguements are or how good they are they won't admit that it doesn't sound the same. And the last time one of those bastards tried to take me down with his very silly and bad arguements I was 1 inch from beating him down in pure frustration. And about that rap and pop thing: That really sounds the same, and that ain't even difficult to make. I'm not going to mention pop groups names, but I really hate some of them, and the fact that most youths like it and thinks it's good make me wanna go and shoot myself because no matter what I say I'm a youth to.
So Danny, what do you think about all this?
# Posted on May 16th 2003 by tufbo
Re: It all sounds the same
ok... about to contradict what i said before... and in a much more relaxed (drunken) state right now... are you sure that the people who ask these silly questions aren't completely pissed... if not... maybe they should be (teehee!)... was reading over stuff about classical music... really... if you aren't terribly interested/invested in something doesn't it all seem about the same... goes for art, music, languages (take Japanese/Chinese...), etc... just another random perspective...
alisha
# Posted on May 16th 2003 by scaryakgrl
wow! Some sentences there was really long.
I must sound very angry, but I'm not, I just had to get it out.
# Posted on May 16th 2003 by tufbo
Re: It all sounds the same
I agree with Alisha. If you don't have an interest in a certain type of music, it's probably going to sound "all the same".
If someone comes up to me at a session and tells me that it sounds the same, I don't really take it to heart. Everyone's entitled to their own opinions. Some local-yocal approached me at Irish Arts Week in the Catskills and told me "it all sounds the same". I told him that if he learned more about the music and played an instrument, it wouldn't sound the same. He wanted to argue about this, but I just walked away, mostly because the assh*ole was starting to bore me.
Joyce
# Posted on May 16th 2003 by JMH
Re: It all sounds the same
i used to have a very big down on 'country&western' stuff but then when someone made me listen to some good examples of it i changed my mind.i still don't like the more mawkish/commercial emanations but it's now stopped sounding all the same to me.
i would think the same applies to just about any other genre as well.i've noticed some especially gratuitous and vitriolic comments about rap music in some threads.
like: it all sounds the same.
as said above,it all depends if people's minds are open or closed.you can debate with the former,i would n't bother with the latter.
Danny,if the punters like it does n't seem to cut much ice with some managements - the punters really enjoyed the music at that session in new cross but that did n't stop him from turning it into a tapas bar and getting in the jazz.
mind you,what do i know - i like all that plainchant stuff but that still sounds all the same to me,or near enough!
# Posted on May 16th 2003 by biggus dave
Re: It all sounds the same
If someone manages the audacity to say to me "it all sounds the same", I just send my condolences to their lack of education and either congratulate them on being bold enough to proclaim their ignorance or let them know "oh... i'm so embarrassed for you.."
seara
# Posted on May 16th 2003 by searai
Re: It all sounds the same
There are so many ways of saying it, though... someone could be dismissive, confrontational, or politely baffled. So my response entirely depends on what the attitude is. A friend did recently say 'it all sounds the same' to me. He'd been at a session where Martin Hayes was playing, and reported that 'apparently he was a really well-known fiddle player' but although he could tell he was quite good, he seemed a bit baffled by all the excitement. I just assured him that once you get to know a few tunes, they don't sound the same any more. It's up to him if he wants to get any closer to the music or not. He's a boogie-woogie pianist himself, and if that's his thing, that's his thing. As long as he doesn't make insulting remarks or arrogant statements about the music, I don't care. Or at least, I'm not going to evangelise...
But a drunken regular at another session (one of that strange breed Danny mentioned earlier, who goes to a really top-rate session on a regular basis but hates the music) was much more aggressive about it. e.g. 'there's nothing to this music, it's all the same. How can you actually like it?' So I was rude in return and just said that if he couldn't hear it, that was his loss... and walked off, as he was getting very boring.
Ah well, he's a bitter drunk - what can you do? The sad thing is that his sick mind - which insists on clinging to a narrow, prejudiced, frozen view of things and can't open out to fresh possibilities - has also painted him into a tragic alcoholic corner in which the whole world is apparently against him. If he could open it to Irish music (which is right there for the taking, in his local, week after week) he could probably open it to other options in his life as well. So it's hard to be angry with him - yes, he's a wanker, but I feel very sorry for him.
# Posted on May 16th 2003 by Nell
Re: It all sounds the same
Actually, Bigdave, Hank Williams rates as one of my greatest ever "Heroes"( ! ), ie, the man who wrote Jambalaya, You Win Again, Your Cheatin' Heart, and many more, then was found slumped dead in his car, choked on vom after drinking yet another bottle of whisky. Just goes to show you'll get geniuses popping up in all sorts of genres, even allegedly simple ones like C&W.
Yeah, Dave, but New Cross is all about Location, location, location. Yer governor is only doing what is good business for his job. Who would have thought? New Cross becoming gentrified? Soon the Old Kent Road will be the new New Cross.
Just 'lorrved' yer method of advising those chaps at the bar, the other night, that they might not have been maintaining the beat as precisely as was required. A 6' 3" grizzly bear, cunningly diguised as a fiddle player, playing 1' away, often convinces even the most inebriated to try and keep better time - or shut the f**k up!!
>
Anyway, Seara
# Posted on May 16th 2003 by Rudall the time
Re: It all sounds the same
Wait, wait, wait...Dave menaced some players? He's 6'3"? Is he really? Did he really?
And here I had him taped out as this skinny little dude with the squirrelly sense of humor when smashed... *grin*
zls
# Posted on May 16th 2003 by Zina Lee
Re: It all sounds the same
How am I legitimately supposed to be able to complain about how repetitive pop music is if the people who enjoy pop music know that Irish tunes are repetitive by nature?
I'll take one "it all sounds the same!" from a stranger for every time I say "change the station, he's said 'baby I love you' fourteen times in a row now!".
# Posted on May 16th 2003 by suky
Re: It all sounds the same
not that size matters,Zina, but i'm 6' 4" and a bit,that's an important bit,mind you,arf,arf.
skinny squirrels,my arse - i ask you! why dya think i'm known as bigdave?? no,don't answer that,or it 'll be disappointment all the way!
i appreciate your comments,Danny, but i thought i was rather tactful,nay,diplomatic even, with regard to the payphone bashers!
# Posted on May 16th 2003 by biggus dave
Re: It all sounds the same
Dave, Dave, Dave...always leave room for imagination. *grin*
# Posted on May 16th 2003 by Zina Lee
Re: It all sounds the same
BTW, Suky, I used to amuse myself by talking back to pop songs. Usually they're either so co-dependent or just plain neurotic that it's great fun to yell things at the song -- "you b*s*d!" "Stalker!" "don't be an idiot, he'll only beat you!"
# Posted on May 16th 2003 by Zina Lee
I could listen to the radio all day now...
Thanks for the suggestion. Unfortunately, the same thing works with Irish ballads sometimes.
# Posted on May 18th 2003 by suky
Re: It all sounds the same
One of the beauties of traditional British and Irish and European dance music is the large number of rhythms available. In what other genre of music would you encounter 4/4, 2/4, 6/8, 6/4, 12/8, 9/8, 3/4, 3/8, 3/2, 5/4, 7/4, 11/8, on a regular basis.
All the best PP
# Posted on May 18th 2003 by Pied Piper
Re: It all sounds the same
Around 3 years ago, when I started going to the Woodman's & Hardy's sessions they all sounded the same to me and I was impatient to get into the music so that it would all split into different tunes which it did after 4 or 5 sessions. Of course, there are some that just stand out straight away. Having got into bluegrass two years before that, I had found the same situation (and it's not all diddling banjos and dungarees, you get some bluegrass with classical, folky, bluesy or jazzy styles). I found the same variety in country music and opera, some of which I love, and some of which I hate. You get that situation when you go to a gig and don't know the material of the act. Even when you buy a cd, the stuff all sounds the same. I remember first hearing a tribute to Bob Wills by Asleep at the Wheel, featuring a different singer per song. It all sounded old fashioned and samey to me at first, but over ten years later, that's still one of my favourite records. Anyway, I've found that "I buried my wife and danced on her grave" "the old hag's purse" and "Rambling pitchfork" do sound very similar and I sometimes go from part A of one into part B of the other - so they sometimes do sound a bit the same, but if you like the sound anyway, what's the big deal. More of the same please.
Cath
# Posted on May 18th 2003 by Cath
Re: It all sounds the same
Hey PP - maybe not in another genre of music, but that all looks like bookie's odds to me.
Cath - you're right - some of the tunes ARE very close to each other. That's part of the fun, keeping to the one you're meant to be playing, but it doesn't always happen! Witness Jack, last night, very good banjo player, at one point, crashed from one tune into another, cos the second parts were similar. I believe the concensus view is that often the 2-3 tunes which are close were at one time the same tune, but acquired a regional accent, as I imagine prior to the 20th century, fewer people read music, and there was obviously no recorded music, so tunes were allowed to change accordingly. Eurotrad or Eurotrash?
Danny.
# Posted on May 18th 2003 by Rudall the time
Re: It all sounds the same
I agree with the idea that any new genre of music will 'sound the same' to unfamiliar ears.
Last night I was driving home late (185 miles to get to the Home Depot/movie theater each way) & I was listening to a new agey radio show featuring trad Asian Indian music ie sitar, drums etc, which morphed into traditional Navajo songs ie drums & vocals (as I lost one radio signal & picked up another), & you really think to yourself, wow these really do sound all alike... I think anyone who has been in a foreign culture & turned on a local radio station can vouch for the same experience be it Norway, Ecuador, Zimbabwe or Indonesia. Our human ears are looking for patterns, & until they show themselves, we're lost in the muddle, though perhaps still enjoying the ride. I think the key here is motivation to *want* to understand.
# Posted on May 19th 2003 by emily_bmore
Re: It all sounds the same
To me, it's like going to France and marveling at how fast everyone talks.
"And -- can you imagine? -- even all the little kids here have learned to speak it!"
# Posted on May 19th 2003 by cuchulain54
Re: It all sounds the same
Danny --> just sorta meant that earlier comment tounge in cheek... (i really am painfully polite - ask kerri)
As much as i'd like to say something like that en la vive vrai, i do think that by treating someone with disrespect I'd be doing the same thing we're disapproving of... Showing disrespect towards something or someone which one knows very little about.
anyway, i wrote something rather longwinded just as the site went down... so this is the abridged version.
cheers,
s
# Posted on May 20th 2003 by searai
Re: It all sounds the same
I think that the people that says that, and that have already apened to me also, should take a more atempive listen to raves and that kind of "fashion" music for example... that all sounds the same, unfortunatly, that kind of sounds has only a few years old... are they shure it
# Posted on June 10th 2003 by cuinivienen