I've known this song for a while: a friend who does historical re-enactments sang it to me, but didn't know where she got it from - just wondering if anyone has any idea about its origins. It's from the Peninsular War (1807-1814) - that much I do know...
(Type the name into search and it'll come up: the ABC format's a bit wonky but should be rectified soon...)
I love old songs of war so this really fascinated me. I ran some Google searches and all I could find was your notes in the comments section for the tune here on the mustard board.
I would suggest you try posting a thread over there at www.mudcat.org. I ran a search there too for this song and no hits, so perhaps if you posted a thread there you'd get some more info.
Having looked closely at the lyrics I very much doubt that this song was written contemporaneously.
The lyrics aren't typical of the early nineteenth century broadsheet and the chorus strikes me very much as something dating from the second half of said century or perhaps even later.
The Mudcat thread (and indeed there is one) doesn't provide any hints as to the song's origins.
In fact, having looked at said lyrics again, I'd hazard a guess that this song is probably 20th century.
What's odd about it, firstly, is that it doesn't include any particular place names apart from countries and, secondly, I've never previously seen an Irish ballad which included a line such as '‘Twas there in Spain she caught a Frog'. The term 'Frog', as a derogatory reference to the French, was probably not current in Ireland until the latter half of the nineteenth century.
Then again, I'm assuming that the ballad was written in Ireland, but it may not have been at all.
To be honest, I don't think it's Irish myself - but it cropped up i a set of songs sung by my friend at an Irish re-enactment wotsit... I reckon it's English, hence the therm "Frog". Apologies for including it on here if that's the case (which it probably is), but I don't think it's the first non-Irish song on this website....
Interesting comment, MacCruiskeen: I'not that great at dating songs, so how d'you work it out?
While it's obviously about the Peninsular War, it may have been written later: songs like this often are. Perhaps it originated in England, and somehow got picked up in Ireland later? I know about a third of the British Army in the Peninsular War was Irish...
Just a thought on the place names - it does seem more likely to be English, as while place names are pretty prevalent in Irish music, English ballads tend to be more generalised.
The Men They Stand and Stay
The Men They Stand and Stay
I've known this song for a while: a friend who does historical re-enactments sang it to me, but didn't know where she got it from - just wondering if anyone has any idea about its origins. It's from the Peninsular War (1807-1814) - that much I do know...
(Type the name into search and it'll come up: the ABC format's a bit wonky but should be rectified soon...)
# Posted on February 14th 2008 by Purfling
Re: The Men They Stand and Stay
I love old songs of war so this really fascinated me. I ran some Google searches and all I could find was your notes in the comments section for the tune here on the mustard board.
I would suggest you try posting a thread over there at www.mudcat.org. I ran a search there too for this song and no hits, so perhaps if you posted a thread there you'd get some more info.
# Posted on February 14th 2008 by SWFL Fiddler
Re: The Men They Stand and Stay
Having looked closely at the lyrics I very much doubt that this song was written contemporaneously.
The lyrics aren't typical of the early nineteenth century broadsheet and the chorus strikes me very much as something dating from the second half of said century or perhaps even later.
The Mudcat thread (and indeed there is one) doesn't provide any hints as to the song's origins.
# Posted on February 14th 2008 by MacCruiskeen
Re: The Men They Stand and Stay
In fact, having looked at said lyrics again, I'd hazard a guess that this song is probably 20th century.
What's odd about it, firstly, is that it doesn't include any particular place names apart from countries and, secondly, I've never previously seen an Irish ballad which included a line such as '‘Twas there in Spain she caught a Frog'. The term 'Frog', as a derogatory reference to the French, was probably not current in Ireland until the latter half of the nineteenth century.
Then again, I'm assuming that the ballad was written in Ireland, but it may not have been at all.
# Posted on February 15th 2008 by MacCruiskeen
Re: The Men They Stand and Stay
To be honest, I don't think it's Irish myself - but it cropped up i a set of songs sung by my friend at an Irish re-enactment wotsit... I reckon it's English, hence the therm "Frog". Apologies for including it on here if that's the case (which it probably is), but I don't think it's the first non-Irish song on this website....
Interesting comment, MacCruiskeen: I'not that great at dating songs, so how d'you work it out?
While it's obviously about the Peninsular War, it may have been written later: songs like this often are. Perhaps it originated in England, and somehow got picked up in Ireland later? I know about a third of the British Army in the Peninsular War was Irish...
# Posted on February 24th 2008 by Purfling
Re: The Men They Stand and Stay
Just a thought on the place names - it does seem more likely to be English, as while place names are pretty prevalent in Irish music, English ballads tend to be more generalised.
# Posted on February 24th 2008 by Purfling