Does anybody here play in or know of a flat session in their area (or an Eb flat session, for that matter)?
If so, do a good number of people play there, or is it a pretty small crew, a niche kind of thing? And do newcomers usually adjust readily to retuning or using a different instrument, or is it typically a turn-off for prospective players?
Traditionally, it refers to a type of crispy potato pancake, but it's musically inclined to entail playing with an A lower than 440, typically to play with pipers whose chanters were pitched in C or Bb (or ornery fiddlers who love C#).
Wyogal, have you tried this sexiness that is C#? [By the way, A used to be pitched at 415 back in the day... Damn the one who decided to up it!!!]
I highly recommend it.
The Ri Ra session on sundays occasionally goes up to Eb and late comers usually just go with the flow and tune up. My second session ever in Boston had a little Bb episode. It's was pretty sweet, but it didn't last long so it wasn't worth tuning down.
Oh, and of course the session Dan and I will be starting in the summer will be in various tunings of non-440 orgasmodalness.
Let's see- yesterday, we played pipes in B and C and a Rowsome chanter in C# ( I think). Yes it does happen ; fiddle players need to tune the D string down a step or a step and half and the other strings accordingly. Uilleann Obssesion web site should have pictures of us fooling around on various instruments.
I think pipes in B or Bb with a fiddle sound great. Actually C# isn't a bad key either. Not too sure what the flue players think, nor the guitar folks.
Yeah, I love flat pipes, at least when they are 'reasonably' in tune with themselves... It doesn't happen enough. I prefer these, especially the older pipes, to the D rocket ships, which are too often built with an imbalance of consideration for volume rather than tone...the 'why' for calling them 'rocket ships'...
a flat session is typically Bflat, usually occur with somebody with flat pipes, e flat sessions often occur, i have both e flat and b flat flutes and its a joy to get to use them in sessions from time to time, its nice for a change,.
I had a C session recently enough. The piper had a C set, which was horribely out of tune, and fiddler tuned down. I tuned the banjo down and it was fine. I do love C# though.
As an uilleann piper I find it odd that people are saying that flat pipes are out of tune. Talk to pipers and pipemakers and reedmakers and they'll tell you that the tuning quirks of D uilleann pipes tend to lessen or disappear in flat uilleann pipes.
The natural, or home, key of uilleann pipes is around B. Many of the oldest sets play at B or somewhere halfway between B and C. (Of course they were made before everybody agreed that A should be 440 cycles, which didn't happen until the 20th century.)
These old sets play better in tune with themselves than all but the best D sets, and probably even them.
D uilleann pipes are a product of a 19th century attempt to get the pipes to play sharper and louder than they naturally do, and no one has yet come up with a D chanter that plays as well as a flat chanter.
So the tuning problems are probably a result of non-pipers failing to get in tune with the pipes. The non-pipers are trying to force their 20th century tuning on what is essentially an 18th century instrument.
I've attended many sessions where as many as four or five flat sets of pipes- usually B sets- are playing together quite well in tune.
Oh I didn't say that, at least around here, flat sessions usually are only the result of two or more pipers wanting to play their flat sets in preference to their D sets. Some uilleann pipers really get into the sound of the flat pipes and don't like playing their D pipes much.
A friend of mine and I like to play in C (pipes, concertina or flute)... just a more mellow, pleasing sound in most cases (well, hopefully out of the cases as well)... since most folks around here are not string players, and cannot tune down so easily, we don't get to do it enough.
If I had a C set <sigh>. Bb was a bit of a stretch; couldn't accurately place the "E" fingers but I did get to play a new Preshaw C chanter and it was sweet.
We commonly have session in C or B at our monthly SoCal piper's club meetings. I either borrow a chanter to use or play my MIDI concertina tuned down as required.
I made a mistake with my earlier post. His chanter was not out of tune. He did not tune his regulators (or drones). It was one or the other. So it was not the actual pipes but it was his drones or regulators.
"The natural, or home, key of uilleann pipes is around B. Many of the oldest sets play at B or somewhere halfway between B and C. (Of course they were made before everybody agreed that A should be 440 cycles, which didn't happen until the 20th century.)"
Methinks you've got a few things wrong in your post.
Also, there are a number of pipe makers who make flat sets that are "modern concert pitch" sets stretched to tune them flat... thereby losing the benefits of the old pipes completely.
Flat sessions.
Flat sessions.
Does anybody here play in or know of a flat session in their area (or an Eb flat session, for that matter)?
If so, do a good number of people play there, or is it a pretty small crew, a niche kind of thing? And do newcomers usually adjust readily to retuning or using a different instrument, or is it typically a turn-off for prospective players?
--DtM
# Posted on February 12th 2008 by Dan the Man
Re: Flat sessions.
A flat session? Do such things really exist?
# Posted on February 12th 2008 by crazy_fingerz
Re: Flat sessions.
What is a flat session? You sit in a line instead of a circle? (just kidding) but seriously, what is it?
# Posted on February 12th 2008 by wyogal
Re: Flat sessions.
It's just a session that's not really cranking.
# Posted on February 12th 2008 by kjay_bc_box
Re: Flat sessions.
or is it at someone's apartment?
# Posted on February 12th 2008 by wyogal
Re: Flat sessions.
Traditionally, it refers to a type of crispy potato pancake, but it's musically inclined to entail playing with an A lower than 440, typically to play with pipers whose chanters were pitched in C or Bb (or ornery fiddlers who love C#).
--DtM
# Posted on February 12th 2008 by Dan the Man
Re: Flat sessions.
oh, kinda thought so but wasn't sure. As a fiddler, does one tune down, or just play lower? and who loves C#???? yuck!
# Posted on February 12th 2008 by wyogal
Re: Flat sessions.
Wyogal, have you tried this sexiness that is C#? [By the way, A used to be pitched at 415 back in the day... Damn the one who decided to up it!!!]
I highly recommend it.
The Ri Ra session on sundays occasionally goes up to Eb and late comers usually just go with the flow and tune up. My second session ever in Boston had a little Bb episode. It's was pretty sweet, but it didn't last long so it wasn't worth tuning down.
Oh, and of course the session Dan and I will be starting in the summer will be in various tunings of non-440 orgasmodalness.
Cheers,
Armand
# Posted on February 12th 2008 by fiddlinviolinin
Re: Flat sessions.
LOL!
# Posted on February 12th 2008 by wyogal
Re: Flat sessions.
Let's see- yesterday, we played pipes in B and C and a Rowsome chanter in C# ( I think). Yes it does happen ; fiddle players need to tune the D string down a step or a step and half and the other strings accordingly. Uilleann Obssesion web site should have pictures of us fooling around on various instruments.
I think pipes in B or Bb with a fiddle sound great. Actually C# isn't a bad key either. Not too sure what the flue players think, nor the guitar folks.
I_Fel
# Posted on February 12th 2008 by I_Fel
Re: Flat sessions.
flue=flute- my bad
# Posted on February 12th 2008 by I_Fel
Re: Flat sessions.
Yeah, I love flat pipes, at least when they are 'reasonably' in tune with themselves...
It doesn't happen enough. I prefer these, especially the older pipes, to the D rocket ships, which are too often built with an imbalance of consideration for volume rather than tone...the 'why' for calling them 'rocket ships'...
# Posted on February 12th 2008 by ceolachan
Re: Flat sessions.
a flat session is typically Bflat, usually occur with somebody with flat pipes, e flat sessions often occur, i have both e flat and b flat flutes and its a joy to get to use them in sessions from time to time, its nice for a change,.
# Posted on February 12th 2008 by S.Doherty
Re: Flat sessions.
actually i noticed a lot of these flat pipes sessions at the willy clancy fest this year, some were horribly out of tune tho.
# Posted on February 12th 2008 by S.Doherty
Re: Flat sessions.
I had a C session recently enough. The piper had a C set, which was horribely out of tune, and fiddler tuned down. I tuned the banjo down and it was fine. I do love C# though.
# Posted on February 12th 2008 by PaddyCmusic
Re: Flat sessions.
As an uilleann piper I find it odd that people are saying that flat pipes are out of tune. Talk to pipers and pipemakers and reedmakers and they'll tell you that the tuning quirks of D uilleann pipes tend to lessen or disappear in flat uilleann pipes.
The natural, or home, key of uilleann pipes is around B. Many of the oldest sets play at B or somewhere halfway between B and C. (Of course they were made before everybody agreed that A should be 440 cycles, which didn't happen until the 20th century.)
These old sets play better in tune with themselves than all but the best D sets, and probably even them.
D uilleann pipes are a product of a 19th century attempt to get the pipes to play sharper and louder than they naturally do, and no one has yet come up with a D chanter that plays as well as a flat chanter.
So the tuning problems are probably a result of non-pipers failing to get in tune with the pipes. The non-pipers are trying to force their 20th century tuning on what is essentially an 18th century instrument.
I've attended many sessions where as many as four or five flat sets of pipes- usually B sets- are playing together quite well in tune.
# Posted on February 12th 2008 by Richard D Cook
Re: Flat sessions.
Oh I didn't say that, at least around here, flat sessions usually are only the result of two or more pipers wanting to play their flat sets in preference to their D sets. Some uilleann pipers really get into the sound of the flat pipes and don't like playing their D pipes much.
# Posted on February 12th 2008 by Richard D Cook
Re: Flat sessions.
A friend of mine and I like to play in C (pipes, concertina or flute)... just a more mellow, pleasing sound in most cases (well, hopefully out of the cases as well)... since most folks around here are not string players, and cannot tune down so easily, we don't get to do it enough.
# Posted on February 12th 2008 by maze
Re: Flat sessions.
If I had a C set <sigh>. Bb was a bit of a stretch; couldn't accurately place the "E" fingers but I did get to play a new Preshaw C chanter and it was sweet.
# Posted on February 12th 2008 by I_Fel
Re: Flat sessions.
We commonly have session in C or B at our monthly SoCal piper's club meetings. I either borrow a chanter to use or play my MIDI concertina tuned down as required.
# Posted on February 12th 2008 by Michael Eskin
Re: Flat sessions.
" ~ no one has yet come up with a D chanter that plays as well as a flat chanter." ~ Richard D. Cook
YES!!! But I have caught the occassional decent D...one that wasn't a 'rocket ship'...
# Posted on February 12th 2008 by ceolachan
Re: Flat sessions.
I made a mistake with my earlier post. His chanter was not out of tune. He did not tune his regulators (or drones). It was one or the other. So it was not the actual pipes but it was his drones or regulators.
# Posted on February 12th 2008 by PaddyCmusic
Re: Flat sessions.
That tuning issue with D chanters is a curious little fact...the arguments against concert D yet mount on!
--DtM
# Posted on February 12th 2008 by Dan the Man
Re: Flat sessions.
"The natural, or home, key of uilleann pipes is around B. Many of the oldest sets play at B or somewhere halfway between B and C. (Of course they were made before everybody agreed that A should be 440 cycles, which didn't happen until the 20th century.)"
http://www.myspace.com/jameskennapipes
Methinks you've got a few things wrong in your post.
Also, there are a number of pipe makers who make flat sets that are "modern concert pitch" sets stretched to tune them flat... thereby losing the benefits of the old pipes completely.
# Posted on March 26th 2008 by Nico
Re: Flat sessions.
'a flat session is typically Bflat, usually occur with somebody with flat pipes'
I think B pipes are far more common than Bb pipes.
# Posted on March 26th 2008 by Nico
Re: Flat sessions.
http://www.myspace.com/jameskennapipes
wow.!
# Posted on May 2nd 2008 by jig