I'm new to "the session" and I hope this post finds everyone well. I've been playing guitar for many years mostly with a flatpick but have been concentrating on playing fingerstyle guitar for the past two years. I've learned some advanced arrangements of Irish and Scottish tunes but have been running into a problem when playing in front of people.
I'll work very hard to learn a given tune, get it down, memorized, and feel confident about it, but lately when I take the songs out of the house and play in front of people I find myself "choking" (figuratively not literally) so to speak. I was offerred a chance to play a song solo at a session recently and about a third of the way through I lost concentration and "choked" and had to muddle my way through the rest of the song.
Sometimes I'll do fine in front of people and other times I go through what I described... granted I'm new to Irish/Scottish music and finger picking as well but I'm starting to get bugged about this developement. I'm wondering if anyone out there has had similar problem and how you got passed it?
If you're lucky enough to live near to a regular session, I think the solution is very likely to just 'happen' without you having to worry about it. The vast majority of session-goers are friendly and supportive people, who will encourage you to play. As you get to know them as people, you'll simply forget any nervousness or shyness when playing your tunes/songs, because you'll be with friends.
The only caveat I have to the above is that it's a lot easier if you're playing tunes - especially well-known ones that other people might join in on - rather than just songs.
Stagefright?? Well YES. When I first played the fiddle at a party in front of people I generally went to a session with (I had been playing banjo in the session) -- you could see my arm literally shaking -- I mean -- YOU COULD SEE IT SHAKING.
Personally I think the only antidote to stagefright and performance nerves is simply to keep on doing it over and over and over again -- until you only get the "attack" of stage fright once in a while. Then, if you 'up the ante' by playing in a different situation with more prestige attached to it, you may have to build your way through that whole stage-fright scenario again. Or maybe not -- it depends on your inner belief that you are going to do it well. Some lucky people who begin performing as children go through whatever they need to go through at a very early age, or don't go through it at all -- they are children -- they're not necessarily supposed to be doing things so well, and they aren't so self-critical (and if they bomb -- they can always run and hide behind their mother). It's difficult for a lot of adults to start playing an instrument or singing in public.
It is like having another job, on top of having to learn to play the instrument. You have to learn to play the instrument in front of people without falling apart. That can be another story altogether, in my experience -- and you have to work on it just like you have to work on learning your instrument. It's very rewarding though -- tremendously rewarding -- to go from the time when your arm was shaking so hard -- it could be seen across the room -- to the time when you can play through a reel by yourself in a session if no one joins in. And then --- it's just endless endless work to improve your playing --- and you never totally feel that it's where you want it to be (or -- you KNOW it isn't where you want it to be)!
benhall.1, thanks very much for the reply. At sessions I mostly play backing but I'm coming along with fingerpicking and the person who runs the session has been encouraging me to play a solo tune at the sessions lately. It's not that unusual at this particular session for some folks to play a solo. Also, I don't know if I made a mistake with my terminology but for what it's worth, I was using the term tune and song interchangably. The tunes that I've played solo have been traditional ones that I'm sure most of the folks at the session are familiar with.
Most importantly, I agree that most of the session - goers are very friendly and supportive... that's what it's all about.
Sorry. I should have remembered that, in some quarters, tune = song. It always confuses me. Very glad to hear that your local session sounds as supportive as a session should be.
AAAAAAHH HA HA HA HA HA HAAA.. I'm not alone... niether are you.
Chill man! what you are experiencing is the 30% rule.
when you play at a session your only ever 1/3 as good as when you play at home.
Thats me all over. I was pracricing before a session one night and tore through a few reels with great rythm and pace only to completely make an arse of myself at the sesh.
Hmmm... tomorrow we're putting on a program of ITM for the music department of Laney College's noontime concert series. There will no doubt be lovely coeds in attendance. Maybe I'll need to visualize them... uh... well... maybe not... could be too distracting.
I can't remember which classical musician said it, or even his exact words, but they were to the effect that you have to be able to play it 150% perfectly at home before you can play it 100% perfectly in public. You are definitely not alone! One thing that happens to me a lot when I take a tune out for the first time is that I'm completely thrown if anyone starts to accompany me. Out here in the wilds of Cornwall I have to get the tunes up to speed at home alone! Next step is when you get really good and you start to make CDs and you encounter the dreaded microphone-freeze syndrome!
You are not alone as these posts tell you. I have been a church musician since the 60's. Which means I play the SOS every week in front of a big 'house' every Sunday.
When the high Holy Days happen and I am playing in front of big houses, with other very accomplished musicians, it happens.
With ITM, (I am taking button lessons from an internationally known player) When I started, I was terrified playing in front of him. Lately some days are better than others.
The 30% rule (I always use 50%-same concept) absolutely applies, but you can't let the stress to accomplish it get to you. This will sound a bit like the 'pot' giving the 'kettle' advice, but you need to get into a "zone". While you are playing all you notice is your instrument and the music coming out of it.
That will be a problem if you get into true performance music, because zoning doesn't relate well to an audience...you may be zoned, but they still see you!
I'm even worse when it comes to recording. You'd think I was a beginner sometimes.
No, you have it all wrong: imagining yourself or others naked won't work, you need to actually BE naked. That way no one will notice if you make a mistake.
There should be a Toastmasters club for players. I know brilliant professional players who use Beta blockers to play closer to their potential. We're all in the same leaky boat.
Hi Ray.... I choke too, if you have noticed! The thing is to realize only a CD that has been edited is usually perfectly perfect. Realize that others who solo, they have a "whoops" too in most cases. The thing is, if I mess up, and it's a session, I don't really care.... you just move along, the trick is to not choke and stop when a mistake happens, slide right past it instead of stopping, it will be less noticeable, maybe not noticeable at all to most. I've even whoopsed performing, but with the realization that it happens, and learning to recover in an instant is the key. So know your tune well. Often this way, people don't tend to pick up on or remember the whoops.
For solo guitar, I think it's easier many times to not play something others know, or play it in a different key, via capo. All too often others hijack the speed and you are left in the dust. They don't mean to but may be used to playing it faster. Someone over at Celtic Guitar Talk said the other day that fingerstyle guitar is the "new harp", in the sense that it's a listening piece, and it can sound very harp like.
You have, with fingerstyle guitar, way more strings to deal with at the same time than most other melody players. You chord and note with the left, but you both back AND do melody with the picking hand. It is complicated, as you know. It is convoluted playing tunes this way, on an instrument that the music wasn't written easily to fall in place for. You have major long stretches and jumps that a flute, whistle or fiddle etc. wouldn't have. In taking up the harp recently, though I have a long ways to go before it sounds like real music, I have realized the tunes fall right under your fingers in most cases. Not so for guitar, so you should be proud of yourself that you can play tunes as well as you do.
I think you sound great, and no one minds a mistake, really, session folks understand and are not so critical most places, certainly not the one you've been going to, and that one is a recorded session, but you are always welcome to nix being on it, or have it edited and sent for your approval or not. Personally, I think your playing is a nice addition to the CDs, and you know nothing anyone objects to is left on, and all big mistakes are edited out. Could the recording mikes be making you shake? They can be shut down if you want when you play. Oddly enough most people angle to try and get "on-mike", knowing they will be fully edited and the CD will make them shine!
Mistakes happen, even to people on stage. Classical players eat bananas before a gig to calm down, they are beta-blockers. It must work, so many do it. The first time I had to sing in public I had a half a xanax and a sip of Jack Daniels....not recommended, but I didn't care much if I goofed up, and I know I must have because I am a terrible singer, just thankful people didn't run out laughing. Even that got easier just by doing it, even without "medication" or alcohol. Try to develop the ability to recover fast after a slip up, and don't play if you are too nervous and don't want to.... thing is, at this session in particular, people are enjoying your tunes, and ask for them, so that's good!
I know very seasoned performers who are riddled with anxiety before a gig. They too make mistakes. They all know how to recover so fast they are often unnoticed. It is normal for many to be nervous, to make mistakes, period, it's how you deal with it, and to learn to move on with the tune quickly so the goof is but a twitch of the eye.
The earlier comments are basically correct, you just have to work through it. It can even happen when experienced musicians take up a new instrument. Remember that you are there because you love the music. You are enjoying what you love with friends. There is also the session/performance distinction, if you are doing one it's fine, if it's the other it's completely different.
I heard of a guy auditioning for a course. He'd heard that bannanas contain potassium, which helps with the beta-blockers, and relaxes you, but he had 3 for safety and was just sloppy......
Also, do you know the difference between an amateur and a professional ?
The amateur practises until he can play it right, the pro practises until he never gets it wrong.......
Rubenstein once heard a recording of himself playing the piano, a finished, cut and spliced recording. He (reportedly) said that he wished he could play that well!
If you practice until you get it right, you will have spent much time playing it wrong, and little time playing it right. Like GP said, "the pro practices..."
Coming a bit late to this one, I'll just add that I find playing a solo in a session the highest pressure "performance" (yes, I know, I know) situation there is. (Apart from maybe playing to the teacher in a lesson!) You've got a bunch of musicians sitting all around at close range. It's a lot tougher than playing to an audience of several hundred, IMHO.
every solo guitarist I've seen makes a mistake at least once during their set. they probably make a lot more than that, but I don't notice all of them - this is important to remember - you are (should be) 100% focussed on what you're playing, but not all or even any of your audience will be.
the pros I've seen also all have techniques to recover, so presumably they practice these techniques, or visualise themselves making a mistake and know exactly how they will recover. Maybe practice the piece starting from any bar, or even any note.
Here's something to consider: I volunteer at a hospital for a "Music for Healing" program. I either play one-on-one for patients in their rooms, or in a group setting for cancer patients receiving treatment, or waiting to. If your local hospital offers such a program, you can do some good and get comfortable playing for an audience that is too grateful to have you there to be critical about the occasional bum note. It's also good for learning how to relate to people both personally and musically. Give it some thought.
Another of Rubinstein's contemporaries, it may have been Moisewicz or Schnabel or someone, would have no truck with all this editing and splicing. He'd typically play a piece through a few times in the recording studio until he was satisfied, and then tell the producer to print the best take - the one he was satisfied with. In the pre-tape days, of course, they had no option but to do this. I think there's a good case for returning to that old practice.
The toughest critic of your playing should really be you yourself. Unfortunately, to really hear yourself while you're playing as others hear you is one of the most difficult things in music to achieve. You can be sure that when you can do it all the time, the summit will be in sight and you'll know exactly how to get there.
Meanwhile, it's not a bad idea to record your practising and then immediately afterwards listen to it critically as if it were someone else playing. Then go back to whatever it was you were practising and try again. It's a soul-destroying process in the early stages, but it can be a big help to have a sympathetic experienced player with you to listen and point out things he thinks you may have missed.
And practise really slowly. The faster or more difficult the music then the slower you should be practising. Until you can play it note- and everything-else-perfect at a slow pace you'll have no chance at all of ever playing it well at speed. Things that aren't 100% perfect when played slowly will sound rushed, garbled or out of time/tune when up to speed, and this will highlight a major difference between a pro and a non-pro. It may not matter so much in a pub session (actually, I don't agree with that statement – you never know who might be standing quietly at the bar listening!) but it certainly matters a lot on any other public performing occasion.
during periods of blind panic with new tunes at sessions, I try not to stop, and I keep time, even if with bum notes, and can usually struggle my way back into a tune. After the third or fourth traumatic performance like that I just stop bothering about the mistakes and enjoy playing. The number of bum notes required before re-engagement with the melody then slowly diminishes as number of performances increases, and sooner or later the tune works ok all the way through.
otherwise I follow GP's dictum although practicing tunes to destruction rather spoils the enjoyment when I finally play them.
I agree, BH. I tell my students that it's not the wrong note that is the biggest mistake, it's the thinking about the wrong note after it's been played that trips them up.
I'm also volunteering, at a nursing home. I play for their "happy hour" on Friday afternoons. I'm not sure who appreciates it more, me or them! The root beer floats are pretty good, too!
I have a lot of Schnabel playing Beethoven piano sonatas, and if you care about such things the recordings are absolutely riddled with "mistakes" - fluffed runs, bum notes, the lot. it really doesn't matter a jot, and your ear rapidly tunes them out. They are truly performances in the best sense of the word. Even the awful sound quality soon ceases to matter!
One of my problems is starting a tune too fast, so I try to imagine that I am demonstrating the tune to a group of little children. "See, children, it goes like this... and then like this..." and so on. (I also find this image less distracting than picturing the audience naked, as some recommend.) Listeners usually don't mind a gentle touch, especially at the start--you can always kick up the tempo when others join in
Learn the tune better than you think you possibly could. It will be playing at a session or some other "performance-type" scenario where you will find out which notes or phrases you *almost know."
Also, it helps me to figure out where I keep having a "little problem getting that part in tempo or decent-sounding" and hone in --- *especially* if there is a place where I might change tempo, because the bowing is a little harder -- and I find myself slowing down by a tiny increment -- but enough to be noticeable nevertheless. This is a "no no" I'm trying to "beat."
I am my own audience and my own critic - sessions are infrequent 'round here. I play solo because I love the music... that's the point. I think that if you feel that there is no point playing except in front of others, then you are in danger of being a bit of a showoff. Play to enjoy yourself first.
by all means be perfectionist when practising, but when playing for, or even with (since a session isn't a performance, is it bb?) , others, concentrate on expression and communication and feel your way into a tune until you're playing it from the inside looking out, rather than listening to yourself critically as if you're outside looking in
just flow, and don't feel the need to put in every trick you've learned
Steve, the late Ronald Smith, one of the world's greatest authorities on, and performers of, the piano works of Alkan, once remarked that the difficulties, both technical and staminal, of some of that music were such that it was impossible for anyone to deliver a mistake-free performance, let alone a "perfect" one.
I work with a pro (non-ITM even though she claims to play in with 'Celtic Musicians") who appears to never practice and does what she calls 'grab a note' in the time or two she plays something through with other instruments.
Pain in the arse as it were. No consideration for the folks who took the time to learn things and need to get the coordination of the instruments down.
I like the professionals practice til they don't get it wrong... Have heard variations, but is very true in more than just music.
Ray.... perfectionism and never being 100% happy with your playing is the way the best musicians think. They always think they could have been better....so they strive more and more towards this unobtainable goal. You are a darned good fingerstyle guitarist, and everyone is happy when you play except YOU!
Honestly.... I really think in many ways backing well is harder than tune playing.... rarely will you be told the key or what tune people are going into... the difference is that there are 20 other people playing along to cover any flubs! Backing someone cold, one on one, say in a performance, with no practice time... now that can be challenging, I think more than tune playing.
One thing I learned from recording, is you goof, you either keep on playing, or start that part again quickly if close to the beginning af a phrase... then the bad parts are cut out like an apple with a worm or bruise later on. This is what I would recommend practising at home... as mentioned before... if you recover quickly enough, keep it moving along, most peoples' minds will automatically glide over and essentially cut out the bad part.
It's a good subject for a workshop or lessons over at that session, pre-session, performance anxiety, and what to do when one goofs to make it less noticeable. We'll give it some thought. I learned long ago to have little to no stage fright no matter what (except when singing because I know I stink, LOL!) even when maybe I SHOULD have it. Really what good does it do you (except in extreme cases of making an idiot of yourself! but hopefully you will avoid those tunes and plays ones you know real well). I used to have it way back, but played out so much, it fell by the wayside...replaced with the knowledge of "yes, I will make some mistakes, who doesn't?" and learning to move on with it.
Even in that particular performance last May when my thumbpick flew right off.... you likely remember, I just laughed, picked it up, got on with the music... people laughed too, I didn't really care. It happened, no one faulted me for it, I knew they wouldn't.... things happen. You can either go through your flubs upset or not upset....the key is in finding out HOW to not get upset about it, and have the focus be on speedy recovery rather than "OMG people (and I) think I am a dolt". That's what makes you stop cold and draw even more attention to it.
Ray...one more PS.... Remember the night Alan Morrisroe hosted our session? The guy is brilliant, I think in the inspired genius category. He not only made plenty of little mistakes through the night (and moved along without missing a beat) but INSISTED we leave the mistakes in of his and not edit them out if the session recording. Only others who soloed got cleaned up, he did not want it. His philosphy after easily 50 years of playing melodeon/accordion is that this is the music, how it is, how it has always been, in its natural setting. It's just people having fun, and so what. he feels it is unnatural to have no flubs. Just move on.
Alan will be back this Spring and have a concert at IAANJ, maybe a few other places. Watch... he won't care about the goofs. He cares only about a natural presentation of the music. The guy is amazing, so rarely do you find a player of his caliber who only cares about presentation of tunes, especially rare tunes, and doesn't mind being heard with little goofs. It's not the important part of it for him. So that's a good way to try and look at it....not that I don't want to kick myself on a major mess up.... !!
If any one continues to spell these words incorrectly the U.S. government is prepared to overthrow your country and install a corporatocracy that will liberate your spelling and you will shower us with flowers.
We button players are getting a reputation.....Someone might take umbrage at bringing politics into this site...
Or after the NSA reads your post and destroys the hard drive on your computer with classified Malware so sophisticated the 'Geek squad' will cringe, you could get an unannounced indefinite Carribean vacation where the play only Amy Grant alternating with the Doobie Brothers!
Practice? Are you joking? I don't need to practice. Mandolins, guitars, mouth organs, whistles and bodhran are only produced for business. Practice? That's for amateurs.
Thanks very much for all your responses, I appreceate them all. I'll definately work on recovering... just forge along when I make mistakes while practicing and hopefully develope some recovery methods. It's somewhat comforting to actually hear other musicians discuss how they have dealt with this and it's nice to know I'm not alone. Thanks again and thanks, Iris, for the kind words.
P.S.
Iris no problem with the recording mikes, btw. I don't get nervous at all at the sessions... just when I goof during a solo and have to recover. Also, it just dawned on me that as I'm writing the Saturday night session is in progress. I'm sneeking a little net surfing in at work. I hate missing the session but the O.T. $$$ at work comes in handy.
A problem most of us (well, all, actually) have or have had when playing to others is that nervousness transmits to the bowing arm, causing the bow to bounce and skitter all over the place. The tone is immediately weak, glassy and uneven. A bow bouncing and skittering out of control is next to impossible to coordinate with left hand finger placement. This only makes matters worse.
The solution is to have the bow stationary on the string and pressing slightly into it BEFORE you sound the first note. Maintain that slight pressure as you start playing. You will therefore have the bow under control right from the beginning, and it's much more likely to remain under control as you start playing the notes. The tone will be vastly improved and firmer (far less skating and glassy sounds), which can only encourage the player in the right direction.
When practicing, hold the pressure for about a second (that's quite a long time in music) before you start moving the bow, and practice playing slowly with that pressure. As you get the idea, you can gradually the reduce the time the bow is stationary on the string to a fraction of second, until that stationary time is almost unobservable - but it's still there.
Also, make sure the bow is parallel to the bridge as it moves over the string. With a sufficiently relaxed right arm and hand the bow will naturally find the path of least resistance - which is being parallel to the bridge. The tone will be much better. Practice slowly in front of a mirror, or get someone to watch you.
Another factor that adversely affects bow control and tone is playing too close to (or even over) the fingerboard. That's a technique used by classical violinists for special effects - there, that should frighten most fiddlers from doing it I find a good placement of the bow on the string which gives a good tone with power (and, incidentally requires that you use the pressure on the string that I was talking about above) is when you can see the end of the fingerboard between the bow hairs and the stick.
What must be avoided at all costs - and this is the cause of many bowing problems - is dropping the bow onto the string as you start sounding the first note, a bit like a plane coming in to land. You can get away with it if your name is Maxim Vengerov, but it really is an advanced technique and demands a high level of bowing control.
practice vs. playing for an audience
practice vs. playing for an audience
Hello Folks,
I'm new to "the session" and I hope this post finds everyone well. I've been playing guitar for many years mostly with a flatpick but have been concentrating on playing fingerstyle guitar for the past two years. I've learned some advanced arrangements of Irish and Scottish tunes but have been running into a problem when playing in front of people.
I'll work very hard to learn a given tune, get it down, memorized, and feel confident about it, but lately when I take the songs out of the house and play in front of people I find myself "choking" (figuratively not literally) so to speak. I was offerred a chance to play a song solo at a session recently and about a third of the way through I lost concentration and "choked" and had to muddle my way through the rest of the song.
Sometimes I'll do fine in front of people and other times I go through what I described... granted I'm new to Irish/Scottish music and finger picking as well but I'm starting to get bugged about this developement. I'm wondering if anyone out there has had similar problem and how you got passed it?
Thanks in advance!
# Posted on February 7th 2008 by Raymond G
Re: practice vs. playing for an audience
If you're lucky enough to live near to a regular session, I think the solution is very likely to just 'happen' without you having to worry about it. The vast majority of session-goers are friendly and supportive people, who will encourage you to play. As you get to know them as people, you'll simply forget any nervousness or shyness when playing your tunes/songs, because you'll be with friends.
The only caveat I have to the above is that it's a lot easier if you're playing tunes - especially well-known ones that other people might join in on - rather than just songs.
# Posted on February 7th 2008 by benhall.1
Re: practice vs. playing for an audience
Stagefright?? Well YES. When I first played the fiddle at a party in front of people I generally went to a session with (I had been playing banjo in the session) -- you could see my arm literally shaking -- I mean -- YOU COULD SEE IT SHAKING.
Personally I think the only antidote to stagefright and performance nerves is simply to keep on doing it over and over and over again -- until you only get the "attack" of stage fright once in a while. Then, if you 'up the ante' by playing in a different situation with more prestige attached to it, you may have to build your way through that whole stage-fright scenario again. Or maybe not -- it depends on your inner belief that you are going to do it well. Some lucky people who begin performing as children go through whatever they need to go through at a very early age, or don't go through it at all -- they are children -- they're not necessarily supposed to be doing things so well, and they aren't so self-critical (and if they bomb -- they can always run and hide behind their mother). It's difficult for a lot of adults to start playing an instrument or singing in public.
It is like having another job, on top of having to learn to play the instrument. You have to learn to play the instrument in front of people without falling apart. That can be another story altogether, in my experience -- and you have to work on it just like you have to work on learning your instrument. It's very rewarding though -- tremendously rewarding -- to go from the time when your arm was shaking so hard -- it could be seen across the room -- to the time when you can play through a reel by yourself in a session if no one joins in. And then --- it's just endless endless work to improve your playing --- and you never totally feel that it's where you want it to be (or -- you KNOW it isn't where you want it to be)!
# Posted on February 7th 2008 by Fid42
Re: practice vs. playing for an audience
benhall.1, thanks very much for the reply. At sessions I mostly play backing but I'm coming along with fingerpicking and the person who runs the session has been encouraging me to play a solo tune at the sessions lately. It's not that unusual at this particular session for some folks to play a solo. Also, I don't know if I made a mistake with my terminology but for what it's worth, I was using the term tune and song interchangably. The tunes that I've played solo have been traditional ones that I'm sure most of the folks at the session are familiar with.
Most importantly, I agree that most of the session - goers are very friendly and supportive... that's what it's all about.
Thanks very much for your reply
# Posted on February 7th 2008 by Raymond G
Re: practice vs. playing for an audience
Sorry. I should have remembered that, in some quarters, tune = song. It always confuses me. Very glad to hear that your local session sounds as supportive as a session should be.
# Posted on February 7th 2008 by benhall.1
Re: practice vs. playing for an audience
A good way to get over your performance anxiety is to imagine you're at the session naked.
# Posted on February 7th 2008 by Phantom Button
Re: practice vs. playing for an audience
I imagine everyone else is at the session naked.
# Posted on February 7th 2008 by Mark Harmer
Re: practice vs. playing for an audience
I only imagine certain ladies at the bar are naked.
# Posted on February 7th 2008 by Phantom Button
Re: practice vs. playing for an audience
AAAAAAHH HA HA HA HA HA HAAA.. I'm not alone... niether are you.
Chill man! what you are experiencing is the 30% rule.
when you play at a session your only ever 1/3 as good as when you play at home.
Thats me all over. I was pracricing before a session one night and tore through a few reels with great rythm and pace only to completely make an arse of myself at the sesh.
Welcome to my world Raymond G
# Posted on February 7th 2008 by session savage
Re: practice vs. playing for an audience
Hmmm... tomorrow we're putting on a program of ITM for the music department of Laney College's noontime concert series. There will no doubt be lovely coeds in attendance. Maybe I'll need to visualize them... uh... well... maybe not... could be too distracting.
# Posted on February 7th 2008 by Phantom Button
Re: practice vs. playing for an audience
I can't remember which classical musician said it, or even his exact words, but they were to the effect that you have to be able to play it 150% perfectly at home before you can play it 100% perfectly in public. You are definitely not alone! One thing that happens to me a lot when I take a tune out for the first time is that I'm completely thrown if anyone starts to accompany me. Out here in the wilds of Cornwall I have to get the tunes up to speed at home alone! Next step is when you get really good and you start to make CDs and you encounter the dreaded microphone-freeze syndrome!
# Posted on February 7th 2008 by Steve Shaw
Re: practice vs. playing for an audience
You are not alone as these posts tell you. I have been a church musician since the 60's. Which means I play the SOS every week in front of a big 'house' every Sunday.
When the high Holy Days happen and I am playing in front of big houses, with other very accomplished musicians, it happens.
With ITM, (I am taking button lessons from an internationally known player) When I started, I was terrified playing in front of him. Lately some days are better than others.
The 30% rule (I always use 50%-same concept) absolutely applies, but you can't let the stress to accomplish it get to you. This will sound a bit like the 'pot' giving the 'kettle' advice, but you need to get into a "zone". While you are playing all you notice is your instrument and the music coming out of it.
That will be a problem if you get into true performance music, because zoning doesn't relate well to an audience...you may be zoned, but they still see you!
I'm even worse when it comes to recording. You'd think I was a beginner sometimes.
Best of luck!
# Posted on February 7th 2008 by zippydw
Re: practice vs. playing for an audience
LOL Steve, or the evil video cam fright! AAA!
Point of order: This right here drives me batty for some reason, sorry folks.
Ya sing the song and you play the tune, you don't play the song and sing the tune. Thanks.
# Posted on February 7th 2008 by SWFL Fiddler
Re: practice vs. playing for an audience
No, you have it all wrong: imagining yourself or others naked won't work, you need to actually BE naked. That way no one will notice if you make a mistake.
# Posted on February 7th 2008 by Jameson Stew
Re: practice vs. playing for an audience
They'll notice if you forget to take your socks off.
# Posted on February 7th 2008 by granama
Re: practice vs. playing for an audience
There should be a Toastmasters club for players. I know brilliant professional players who use Beta blockers to play closer to their potential. We're all in the same leaky boat.
# Posted on February 7th 2008 by drone
Re: practice vs. playing for an audience
Hi Ray.... I choke too, if you have noticed! The thing is to realize only a CD that has been edited is usually perfectly perfect. Realize that others who solo, they have a "whoops" too in most cases. The thing is, if I mess up, and it's a session, I don't really care.... you just move along, the trick is to not choke and stop when a mistake happens, slide right past it instead of stopping, it will be less noticeable, maybe not noticeable at all to most. I've even whoopsed performing, but with the realization that it happens, and learning to recover in an instant is the key. So know your tune well. Often this way, people don't tend to pick up on or remember the whoops.
For solo guitar, I think it's easier many times to not play something others know, or play it in a different key, via capo. All too often others hijack the speed and you are left in the dust. They don't mean to but may be used to playing it faster. Someone over at Celtic Guitar Talk said the other day that fingerstyle guitar is the "new harp", in the sense that it's a listening piece, and it can sound very harp like.
You have, with fingerstyle guitar, way more strings to deal with at the same time than most other melody players. You chord and note with the left, but you both back AND do melody with the picking hand. It is complicated, as you know. It is convoluted playing tunes this way, on an instrument that the music wasn't written easily to fall in place for. You have major long stretches and jumps that a flute, whistle or fiddle etc. wouldn't have. In taking up the harp recently, though I have a long ways to go before it sounds like real music, I have realized the tunes fall right under your fingers in most cases. Not so for guitar, so you should be proud of yourself that you can play tunes as well as you do.
I think you sound great, and no one minds a mistake, really, session folks understand and are not so critical most places, certainly not the one you've been going to, and that one is a recorded session, but you are always welcome to nix being on it, or have it edited and sent for your approval or not. Personally, I think your playing is a nice addition to the CDs, and you know nothing anyone objects to is left on, and all big mistakes are edited out. Could the recording mikes be making you shake? They can be shut down if you want when you play. Oddly enough most people angle to try and get "on-mike", knowing they will be fully edited and the CD will make them shine!
Mistakes happen, even to people on stage. Classical players eat bananas before a gig to calm down, they are beta-blockers. It must work, so many do it. The first time I had to sing in public I had a half a xanax and a sip of Jack Daniels....not recommended, but I didn't care much if I goofed up, and I know I must have because I am a terrible singer, just thankful people didn't run out laughing. Even that got easier just by doing it, even without "medication" or alcohol. Try to develop the ability to recover fast after a slip up, and don't play if you are too nervous and don't want to.... thing is, at this session in particular, people are enjoying your tunes, and ask for them, so that's good!
I know very seasoned performers who are riddled with anxiety before a gig. They too make mistakes. They all know how to recover so fast they are often unnoticed. It is normal for many to be nervous, to make mistakes, period, it's how you deal with it, and to learn to move on with the tune quickly so the goof is but a twitch of the eye.
# Posted on February 7th 2008 by irisnevins
Re: practice vs. playing for an audience
The earlier comments are basically correct, you just have to work through it. It can even happen when experienced musicians take up a new instrument. Remember that you are there because you love the music. You are enjoying what you love with friends. There is also the session/performance distinction, if you are doing one it's fine, if it's the other it's completely different.
I heard of a guy auditioning for a course. He'd heard that bannanas contain potassium, which helps with the beta-blockers, and relaxes you, but he had 3 for safety and was just sloppy......
Also, do you know the difference between an amateur and a professional ?
The amateur practises until he can play it right, the pro practises until he never gets it wrong.......
# Posted on February 7th 2008 by Guernsey Pete
Re: practice vs. playing for an audience
Rubenstein once heard a recording of himself playing the piano, a finished, cut and spliced recording. He (reportedly) said that he wished he could play that well!
If you practice until you get it right, you will have spent much time playing it wrong, and little time playing it right. Like GP said, "the pro practices..."
# Posted on February 7th 2008 by wyogal
Re: practice vs. playing for an audience
Coming a bit late to this one, I'll just add that I find playing a solo in a session the highest pressure "performance" (yes, I know, I know) situation there is. (Apart from maybe playing to the teacher in a lesson!) You've got a bunch of musicians sitting all around at close range. It's a lot tougher than playing to an audience of several hundred, IMHO.
# Posted on February 7th 2008 by TomB-R
Re: practice vs. playing for an audience
every solo guitarist I've seen makes a mistake at least once during their set. they probably make a lot more than that, but I don't notice all of them - this is important to remember - you are (should be) 100% focussed on what you're playing, but not all or even any of your audience will be.
the pros I've seen also all have techniques to recover, so presumably they practice these techniques, or visualise themselves making a mistake and know exactly how they will recover. Maybe practice the piece starting from any bar, or even any note.
hope this helps
# Posted on February 7th 2008 by Mike Floorstand
Re: practice vs. playing for an audience
Here's something to consider: I volunteer at a hospital for a "Music for Healing" program. I either play one-on-one for patients in their rooms, or in a group setting for cancer patients receiving treatment, or waiting to. If your local hospital offers such a program, you can do some good and get comfortable playing for an audience that is too grateful to have you there to be critical about the occasional bum note. It's also good for learning how to relate to people both personally and musically. Give it some thought.
# Posted on February 7th 2008 by Ailin
Re: practice vs. playing for an audience
Another of Rubinstein's contemporaries, it may have been Moisewicz or Schnabel or someone, would have no truck with all this editing and splicing. He'd typically play a piece through a few times in the recording studio until he was satisfied, and then tell the producer to print the best take - the one he was satisfied with. In the pre-tape days, of course, they had no option but to do this. I think there's a good case for returning to that old practice.
# Posted on February 7th 2008 by lazyhound
Re: practice vs. playing for an audience
The toughest critic of your playing should really be you yourself. Unfortunately, to really hear yourself while you're playing as others hear you is one of the most difficult things in music to achieve. You can be sure that when you can do it all the time, the summit will be in sight and you'll know exactly how to get there.
Meanwhile, it's not a bad idea to record your practising and then immediately afterwards listen to it critically as if it were someone else playing. Then go back to whatever it was you were practising and try again. It's a soul-destroying process in the early stages, but it can be a big help to have a sympathetic experienced player with you to listen and point out things he thinks you may have missed.
And practise really slowly. The faster or more difficult the music then the slower you should be practising. Until you can play it note- and everything-else-perfect at a slow pace you'll have no chance at all of ever playing it well at speed. Things that aren't 100% perfect when played slowly will sound rushed, garbled or out of time/tune when up to speed, and this will highlight a major difference between a pro and a non-pro. It may not matter so much in a pub session (actually, I don't agree with that statement – you never know who might be standing quietly at the bar listening!) but it certainly matters a lot on any other public performing occasion.
# Posted on February 7th 2008 by lazyhound
Re: practice vs. playing for an audience
during periods of blind panic with new tunes at sessions, I try not to stop, and I keep time, even if with bum notes, and can usually struggle my way back into a tune. After the third or fourth traumatic performance like that I just stop bothering about the mistakes and enjoy playing. The number of bum notes required before re-engagement with the melody then slowly diminishes as number of performances increases, and sooner or later the tune works ok all the way through.
otherwise I follow GP's dictum although practicing tunes to destruction rather spoils the enjoyment when I finally play them.
# Posted on February 7th 2008 by millionyears_bc
Re: practice vs. playing for an audience
Yep, recovery is at least half the battle. And once you’ve recovered from the first stumble, it doesn’t seem so daunting.
# Posted on February 7th 2008 by Bob himself
Re: practice vs. playing for an audience
I agree, BH. I tell my students that it's not the wrong note that is the biggest mistake, it's the thinking about the wrong note after it's been played that trips them up.
I'm also volunteering, at a nursing home. I play for their "happy hour" on Friday afternoons. I'm not sure who appreciates it more, me or them! The root beer floats are pretty good, too!
# Posted on February 7th 2008 by wyogal
Re: practice vs. playing for an audience
I have a lot of Schnabel playing Beethoven piano sonatas, and if you care about such things the recordings are absolutely riddled with "mistakes" - fluffed runs, bum notes, the lot. it really doesn't matter a jot, and your ear rapidly tunes them out. They are truly performances in the best sense of the word. Even the awful sound quality soon ceases to matter!
# Posted on February 7th 2008 by Steve Shaw
Re: practice vs. playing for an audience
One of my problems is starting a tune too fast, so I try to imagine that I am demonstrating the tune to a group of little children. "See, children, it goes like this... and then like this..." and so on. (I also find this image less distracting than picturing the audience naked, as some recommend.) Listeners usually don't mind a gentle touch, especially at the start--you can always kick up the tempo when others join in
Here's a another good thread on the subject:
http://www.thesession.org/discussions/display/16296/
# Posted on February 7th 2008 by mickray
Re: practice vs. playing for an audience
I never play without an audience. What's the point?
# Posted on February 7th 2008 by bodhran bliss
Re: practice vs. playing for an audience
Learn the tune better than you think you possibly could. It will be playing at a session or some other "performance-type" scenario where you will find out which notes or phrases you *almost know."
Also, it helps me to figure out where I keep having a "little problem getting that part in tempo or decent-sounding" and hone in --- *especially* if there is a place where I might change tempo, because the bowing is a little harder -- and I find myself slowing down by a tiny increment -- but enough to be noticeable nevertheless. This is a "no no" I'm trying to "beat."
# Posted on February 7th 2008 by Fid42
Re: practice vs. playing for an audience
I am my own audience and my own critic - sessions are infrequent 'round here. I play solo because I love the music... that's the point. I think that if you feel that there is no point playing except in front of others, then you are in danger of being a bit of a showoff. Play to enjoy yourself first.
# Posted on February 7th 2008 by Brown Creeper
Re: practice vs. playing for an audience
by all means be perfectionist when practising, but when playing for, or even with (since a session isn't a performance, is it bb?) , others, concentrate on expression and communication and feel your way into a tune until you're playing it from the inside looking out, rather than listening to yourself critically as if you're outside looking in
just flow, and don't feel the need to put in every trick you've learned
# Posted on February 8th 2008 by Bren
Re: practice vs. playing for an audience
A show off? Moi? I am a real 100% prima donna.
And all sessions are performances, I thought we had settled that years ago.
# Posted on February 8th 2008 by bodhran bliss
Re: practice vs. playing for an audience
So you never play without an audience because there's no point, eh, Bliss? That means you never practise. Hmm. Thought so....
# Posted on February 8th 2008 by Steve Shaw
Re: practice vs. playing for an audience
but what would one practice, scales and arpeggios?
just kidding
# Posted on February 8th 2008 by wyogal
Re: practice vs. playing for an audience
one would practise "modes", of course
# Posted on February 8th 2008 by Bren
Re: practice vs. playing for an audience
One would practice spelling hopefully.
# Posted on February 8th 2008 by Phantom Button
Re: practice vs. playing for an audience
Steve, the late Ronald Smith, one of the world's greatest authorities on, and performers of, the piano works of Alkan, once remarked that the difficulties, both technical and staminal, of some of that music were such that it was impossible for anyone to deliver a mistake-free performance, let alone a "perfect" one.
# Posted on February 8th 2008 by lazyhound
Re: practice vs. playing for an audience
PB: practise/practice - it's a US vs UK thing. A bit like sidewalk/pavement or suspenders/braces.
# Posted on February 8th 2008 by benhall.1
Re: practice vs. playing for an audience
Yes, "perfect" probably wasn't the right word. I thought that when typed it.
And Jack - I can already spell "hopefully" and I can also spell "practise".
Sorry, the imperialist in me coming out there!
# Posted on February 8th 2008 by Steve Shaw
Re: practice vs. playing for an audience
Actually, I think it's more like color/colour, or theater/theatre.
(same word, different spelling, not different words with the same meaning)
: )
# Posted on February 8th 2008 by wyogal
Re: practice vs. playing for an audience
I work with a pro (non-ITM even though she claims to play in with 'Celtic Musicians") who appears to never practice and does what she calls 'grab a note' in the time or two she plays something through with other instruments.
Pain in the arse as it were. No consideration for the folks who took the time to learn things and need to get the coordination of the instruments down.
I like the professionals practice til they don't get it wrong... Have heard variations, but is very true in more than just music.
# Posted on February 8th 2008 by zippydw
Re: practice vs. playing for an audience
Ray.... perfectionism and never being 100% happy with your playing is the way the best musicians think. They always think they could have been better....so they strive more and more towards this unobtainable goal. You are a darned good fingerstyle guitarist, and everyone is happy when you play except YOU!
Honestly.... I really think in many ways backing well is harder than tune playing.... rarely will you be told the key or what tune people are going into... the difference is that there are 20 other people playing along to cover any flubs! Backing someone cold, one on one, say in a performance, with no practice time... now that can be challenging, I think more than tune playing.
One thing I learned from recording, is you goof, you either keep on playing, or start that part again quickly if close to the beginning af a phrase... then the bad parts are cut out like an apple with a worm or bruise later on. This is what I would recommend practising at home... as mentioned before... if you recover quickly enough, keep it moving along, most peoples' minds will automatically glide over and essentially cut out the bad part.
It's a good subject for a workshop or lessons over at that session, pre-session, performance anxiety, and what to do when one goofs to make it less noticeable. We'll give it some thought. I learned long ago to have little to no stage fright no matter what (except when singing because I know I stink, LOL!) even when maybe I SHOULD have it. Really what good does it do you (except in extreme cases of making an idiot of yourself! but hopefully you will avoid those tunes and plays ones you know real well). I used to have it way back, but played out so much, it fell by the wayside...replaced with the knowledge of "yes, I will make some mistakes, who doesn't?" and learning to move on with it.
Even in that particular performance last May when my thumbpick flew right off.... you likely remember, I just laughed, picked it up, got on with the music... people laughed too, I didn't really care. It happened, no one faulted me for it, I knew they wouldn't.... things happen. You can either go through your flubs upset or not upset....the key is in finding out HOW to not get upset about it, and have the focus be on speedy recovery rather than "OMG people (and I) think I am a dolt". That's what makes you stop cold and draw even more attention to it.
# Posted on February 8th 2008 by irisnevins
Re: practice vs. playing for an audience
Ray...one more PS.... Remember the night Alan Morrisroe hosted our session? The guy is brilliant, I think in the inspired genius category. He not only made plenty of little mistakes through the night (and moved along without missing a beat) but INSISTED we leave the mistakes in of his and not edit them out if the session recording. Only others who soloed got cleaned up, he did not want it. His philosphy after easily 50 years of playing melodeon/accordion is that this is the music, how it is, how it has always been, in its natural setting. It's just people having fun, and so what. he feels it is unnatural to have no flubs. Just move on.
Alan will be back this Spring and have a concert at IAANJ, maybe a few other places. Watch... he won't care about the goofs. He cares only about a natural presentation of the music. The guy is amazing, so rarely do you find a player of his caliber who only cares about presentation of tunes, especially rare tunes, and doesn't mind being heard with little goofs. It's not the important part of it for him. So that's a good way to try and look at it....not that I don't want to kick myself on a major mess up.... !!
# Posted on February 8th 2008 by irisnevins
Re: practice vs. playing for an audience
Correct spellings:
Practice
Color
Favorite
aluminum
mustache
(partial list)
If any one continues to spell these words incorrectly the U.S. government is prepared to overthrow your country and install a corporatocracy that will liberate your spelling and you will shower us with flowers.
# Posted on February 8th 2008 by Phantom Button
Re: practice vs. playing for an audience
Be careful PB
We button players are getting a reputation.....Someone might take umbrage at bringing politics into this site...
Or after the NSA reads your post and destroys the hard drive on your computer with classified Malware so sophisticated the 'Geek squad' will cringe, you could get an unannounced indefinite Carribean vacation where the play only Amy Grant alternating with the Doobie Brothers!
# Posted on February 8th 2008 by zippydw
Re: practice vs. playing for an audience
Thanks for your wice advise PB.
# Posted on February 9th 2008 by Bren
Re: practice vs. playing for an audience
Practice? Are you joking? I don't need to practice. Mandolins, guitars, mouth organs, whistles and bodhran are only produced for business. Practice? That's for amateurs.
# Posted on February 9th 2008 by bodhran bliss
Re: practice vs. playing for an audience
Thanks very much for all your responses, I appreceate them all. I'll definately work on recovering... just forge along when I make mistakes while practicing and hopefully develope some recovery methods. It's somewhat comforting to actually hear other musicians discuss how they have dealt with this and it's nice to know I'm not alone. Thanks again and thanks, Iris, for the kind words.
# Posted on February 10th 2008 by Raymond G
Re: practice vs. playing for an audience
P.S.
Iris no problem with the recording mikes, btw. I don't get nervous at all at the sessions... just when I goof during a solo and have to recover. Also, it just dawned on me that as I'm writing the Saturday night session is in progress. I'm sneeking a little net surfing in at work. I hate missing the session but the O.T. $$$ at work comes in handy.
# Posted on February 10th 2008 by Raymond G
Re: practice vs. playing for an audience
A tip for the fiddlers ...
A problem most of us (well, all, actually) have or have had when playing to others is that nervousness transmits to the bowing arm, causing the bow to bounce and skitter all over the place. The tone is immediately weak, glassy and uneven. A bow bouncing and skittering out of control is next to impossible to coordinate with left hand finger placement. This only makes matters worse.
The solution is to have the bow stationary on the string and pressing slightly into it BEFORE you sound the first note. Maintain that slight pressure as you start playing. You will therefore have the bow under control right from the beginning, and it's much more likely to remain under control as you start playing the notes. The tone will be vastly improved and firmer (far less skating and glassy sounds), which can only encourage the player in the right direction.
When practicing, hold the pressure for about a second (that's quite a long time in music) before you start moving the bow, and practice playing slowly with that pressure. As you get the idea, you can gradually the reduce the time the bow is stationary on the string to a fraction of second, until that stationary time is almost unobservable - but it's still there.
Also, make sure the bow is parallel to the bridge as it moves over the string. With a sufficiently relaxed right arm and hand the bow will naturally find the path of least resistance - which is being parallel to the bridge. The tone will be much better. Practice slowly in front of a mirror, or get someone to watch you.
Another factor that adversely affects bow control and tone is playing too close to (or even over) the fingerboard. That's a technique used by classical violinists for special effects - there, that should frighten most fiddlers from doing it
I find a good placement of the bow on the string which gives a good tone with power (and, incidentally requires that you use the pressure on the string that I was talking about above) is when you can see the end of the fingerboard between the bow hairs and the stick.
What must be avoided at all costs - and this is the cause of many bowing problems - is dropping the bow onto the string as you start sounding the first note, a bit like a plane coming in to land. You can get away with it if your name is Maxim Vengerov, but it really is an advanced technique and demands a high level of bowing control.
# Posted on February 11th 2008 by lazyhound