Hi.
What I want is: a tin whistle that has an uilleann pipe reed. Does it exist? Where can I buy it?
I don't want a bagpipe that has whistles instead of reeds. I want the opposite: a whistle that I can blow directly but makes the wonderful sound of an uilleann pipe.
Maybe this is a stupid question, but is what I want called a "practice chanter"? I wanted it to be with open fingering (like tin whistle).
But even IF a practice chanter IS what I want, then where can I buy such an uilleann practice chanter with these characteristics?
G'day Cesar,
There's whistle/chanter thing called the Wee D around .I've not played it though...
There's also a thing called the Highland Hornpipe....see http://www.highlandhornpipe.com/
Maybe this is what you're after...
cheers........zoukboy...
You could look at David Dayes "penny chanter" at www.daye1.com/pennychanter. Now, you have to get a bellows to play it- it's NOT mouth-blown. Otherwise, I think you want a practice chanter. cheers, Pat
No. There is no such thing as a "practice chanter" as far as uilleann pipes are concerned. There is no point in making or learning a mouthblown uilleann practice chanter because a) the reed, which is difficult to make, will warp and become unplayable very quickly when blown by mouth and b) the bellows and bag are integral to the instrument and c)absolutely indispensable to good uillean pipes technique.
If you're really not interested in playing irish music but like double reeds, there are a number of options like oboe, cor anglais, baroque oboe, and earlier instruments like the shawm, cornamuse, and hautbois. If you're after versatility, the modern oboe is the best option.
the highlnd hornpie uses a sax reed and sounds like a sax which to me is not a very trad sound at all.
As alluded to above you won't get a true uillean pipe sound/effect with a mouth blown instrument because you have to keep stopping to taking breaths and may struggle to maintain constant pressure with your mouth.
if you are serious about this my advice to you Cesar would be to talk to an uilleann pipe maker (or possibly a custom whistle maker).
The main issues with it will be:
- can an uillean pipe chanter read handle your humid breath and condensed water that will run down the inside of the chanter (most scottish highland pipers use plastic reads so this may be a solution)
- the chanter will have to be custom designed for 6 hole whistle fingering and be able to achieve 2 octaves and will have to be made like a highland pipe practice chanter with a mouth piece section that attaches over the top of the reed and chanter so that your mouth doesn't contact the reed
Thanks for all the input people. Just to clear out some details:
- I don't want those highlander hornpipes because they either use saxofone or clarinet reeds and I don't want that, I wanted it to sound trad
- I am aware that being mouth blown I could never achieve the sound of an uilleann pipes for many reasons. But I wanted some kind of compromise: a sound close (yet different) to uilleann, but with the simplicity of tin whistle playing.
- I do want a trad sound, to play trad music.
What you seek does not exist and cannot exist. Such a beast would either defy the laws of physics or would sound very very bad. Double reeds and fipple flutes may be woodwinds, but they generate their sounds in very different ways. These differences in sound generation require differences in bore shapes, number of toneholes, and playing technique.
The closest instrument to what you are describing is a baroque oboe. The baroque oboe was a continental European court instrument of the 17th and 18th centuries. It doesn't finger like a whistle, but it is completely open and you would be able to play some ornaments more readily than on the Boehm system modern oboe. With the right reed, you can sort of get a sound similar to an uilleann pipe chanter. But it isn't used in trad and its sound wouldn't be considered "trad" by most people. It is lovely for playing things like Bach and Corelli, though.
If you are going to wind up in the looney bin if you never learn to make uilleann pipe sounds, then get a bag bellows and chanter and get on with learning to play uilleann pipes. You may wind up in the looney bin anyway, but at least you tried to avoid it.
I disagree with you when you say that it does not and cannot exist. There is nothing in physics that prevents the existence of a mouth blown, double reed, open fingering instrument. Sure it will not sound exactly like Uilleann Pipes. Some may see in it small differences and some may see in it HUGE differences. All is very relative. But it CAN exist, if someone invents it properly. Actually, someone just gave me a link to an instrument that MAY be what I want (although I need to get more details from it before knowing for sure):
This is actually an Irish Oboe, like the Oboe you describe but with the fingering of whistles and flutes.
Of course it will not sound like any common trad instrument because it is a NEW one But what I care about is wether or not it "fits" with trad music, for my ear.
I am never said that I am searching for this instrument as a way to avoid learning Uilleann Pipes. I am not discussing the learning of Uilleann Pipes versus playing this other instrument.
It's a baroque oboe. It's not trad. If you want to hear baroque oboes find some recordings of period music ensembles. And it won't sound like a pipe chanter because of the difference in playing technique.
And I don't care what it's inventor claims, it can't finger EXACTLY like a flute or a whistle AND be in tune b/c of the way reeds and conical bores work. There will be some differences.
And FWIW it sure as hell sounds to me like you're looking for a way to avoid learning pipes. Suit yourself.
> And it won't sound like a pipe chanter because of the
> difference in playing technique.
You still didn't understand that I am ok with those differences?
> And I don't care what it's inventor claims, it can't finger
> EXACTLY like a flute or a whistle AND be in tune b/c of the
> way reeds and conical bores work.
Ok so now the inventor is a liar
There is nothing in phisics that makes it impossible. More difficult maybe, different hole sizing and spacing maybe. But impossible, no.
> And FWIW it sure as hell sounds to me like you're looking for
> a way to avoid learning pipes. Suit yourself.
That is up to your imagination. It sure as hell sounds to me like you want to change the topic of this thread Speaking of which, despite the obvious disadvantages, consider the advantages in portability of such an instrument (for some specific situations) versus a set of Uilleann Pipes.
Howbout a kazoo. It's trad in America anyways ;). And cheaper than a penny whistle. Here's a funny link of kazoo and uke (welcome at any session I'm sure). http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0KpzujDo7c0. Enjoy! Pat
Didn't mean to violate the laws of physics on you, Hanley. I'm just a dilettante. I know what you're saying about conical bore, though, it's just likely that these instruments are close enough to satisfy. Of course they're not identical, but we so rarely get what we want.
Well I hope I didn't offend anyone- wasn't trying to make fun of anybody, but when I looked for sound clips of some of those medieval cornamithingies they reminded me of kazoo. Just a little humor! (or "humour"). Hope ya find something that works for you.
This thread confuses me. As an uilleann piper, i can attest that the only way to achieve the sound of uilleann pipes is with uilleann pipes. There is not a double reed wet-blown, conically-bored instrument that is going to sound like it. Sorry. I am also a reed maker and I can tell you that an uilleann chanter reed is going to fold almost immediately as soon as it is wet... it just does not work that way.
BUT, honestly, the bag and bellows are not that big of a deal to get a grasp of... yes the fingering is very different once you really get into it... but bombards, oboes, etc.... do not sound like uilleann pipes, nor allow for the type of ornamentation possible on them that is idiomatic to the pipes. sorry. try a practice set (no such thing as a practice chanter, other than a good burke D whistle!!) and if it does not work, sell it.
Cesarpim, I feel the need to defend Hanley here, even though normally I wouldn't get involved in such a ridiculous debate.
In your very first comment you said you were looking for "...a whistle that I can blow directly but makes the wonderful sound of an uilleann pipe."..... but later on when you decided to take offence at Hanley's sound advise you said, regarding something you had found, "...Of course it will not sound like any common trad instrument because it is a NEW one ".
Sounds to me like you got good advise but what you were really looking for was an argument!!!!
The comment above by Maze is 100% true, i.e. "the only way to achieve the sound of uilleann pipes is with uilleann pipes"
Well Eamonn,
I admit my initial post might be misleading when I say that I want to have the sound of an uillean pipes. But that doesn't mean that what I wanted was an argument. I simply wanted information.
I later tried to make it more clear what I want, so I said that it doesn't have to be 100% Uilleann sound. To be 100% Uilleann it has to be Uilleann pipes, of course (as maze says).
But I don't need that 100%, is this so difficult to understand?
It appears you, Hanley and maze can think only of either 100% Uilleann or 0% Uilleann. I am thinking of a compromise between a sound that is somewhat similar (yet not fully equal) to Uilleann, yet a more portable instrument (and with whistle fingering).
If you have some information on such an instrument I would be glad to know it. If you don't, ok, it's no problem. But please I am NOT trying to discuss how much such an instrument will sound similar or different to uilleann pipes.
Uilleann Whistle / Reed Whistle
Uilleann Whistle / Reed Whistle
Hi.
What I want is: a tin whistle that has an uilleann pipe reed. Does it exist? Where can I buy it?
I don't want a bagpipe that has whistles instead of reeds. I want the opposite: a whistle that I can blow directly but makes the wonderful sound of an uilleann pipe.
Maybe this is a stupid question, but is what I want called a "practice chanter"? I wanted it to be with open fingering (like tin whistle).
But even IF a practice chanter IS what I want, then where can I buy such an uilleann practice chanter with these characteristics?
Thanks a lot for your input.
Cesar
# Posted on February 7th 2008 by cesarpim
Re: Uilleann Whistle / Reed Whistle
G'day Cesar,
There's whistle/chanter thing called the Wee D around .I've not played it though...
There's also a thing called the Highland Hornpipe....see http://www.highlandhornpipe.com/
Maybe this is what you're after...
cheers........zoukboy...
# Posted on February 7th 2008 by zoukboy
Re: Uilleann Whistle / Reed Whistle
You could look at David Dayes "penny chanter" at www.daye1.com/pennychanter. Now, you have to get a bellows to play it- it's NOT mouth-blown. Otherwise, I think you want a practice chanter. cheers, Pat
# Posted on February 7th 2008 by PatrickJWK
Re: Uilleann Whistle / Reed Whistle
not quite whistle, more like recorder
http://www.e-m-s.com/cat/woodwind/new%20woodwind/crumhorncornamuse/cornamuse.htm
cornamuse
it has a double reed
# Posted on February 7th 2008 by padre
Re: Uilleann Whistle / Reed Whistle
Sounds like an oboe to me !!
# Posted on February 7th 2008 by session savage
Re: Uilleann Whistle / Reed Whistle
The Bombarde perhaps ?
# Posted on February 7th 2008 by Patkiwi
Re: Uilleann Whistle / Reed Whistle
Is what I want called a "practice chanter"?
No. There is no such thing as a "practice chanter" as far as uilleann pipes are concerned. There is no point in making or learning a mouthblown uilleann practice chanter because a) the reed, which is difficult to make, will warp and become unplayable very quickly when blown by mouth and b) the bellows and bag are integral to the instrument and c)absolutely indispensable to good uillean pipes technique.
If you're really not interested in playing irish music but like double reeds, there are a number of options like oboe, cor anglais, baroque oboe, and earlier instruments like the shawm, cornamuse, and hautbois. If you're after versatility, the modern oboe is the best option.
# Posted on February 7th 2008 by Hanley
Re: Uilleann Whistle / Reed Whistle
the highlnd hornpie uses a sax reed and sounds like a sax which to me is not a very trad sound at all.
As alluded to above you won't get a true uillean pipe sound/effect with a mouth blown instrument because you have to keep stopping to taking breaths and may struggle to maintain constant pressure with your mouth.
if you are serious about this my advice to you Cesar would be to talk to an uilleann pipe maker (or possibly a custom whistle maker).
The main issues with it will be:
- can an uillean pipe chanter read handle your humid breath and condensed water that will run down the inside of the chanter (most scottish highland pipers use plastic reads so this may be a solution)
- the chanter will have to be custom designed for 6 hole whistle fingering and be able to achieve 2 octaves and will have to be made like a highland pipe practice chanter with a mouth piece section that attaches over the top of the reed and chanter so that your mouth doesn't contact the reed
good luck
# Posted on February 7th 2008 by BrendanDoherty
Re: Uilleann Whistle / Reed Whistle
Thanks for all the input people. Just to clear out some details:
- I don't want those highlander hornpipes because they either use saxofone or clarinet reeds and I don't want that, I wanted it to sound trad
- I am aware that being mouth blown I could never achieve the sound of an uilleann pipes for many reasons. But I wanted some kind of compromise: a sound close (yet different) to uilleann, but with the simplicity of tin whistle playing.
- I do want a trad sound, to play trad music.
Thanks.
Cesar
# Posted on February 7th 2008 by cesarpim
Re: Uilleann Whistle / Reed Whistle
What you seek does not exist and cannot exist. Such a beast would either defy the laws of physics or would sound very very bad. Double reeds and fipple flutes may be woodwinds, but they generate their sounds in very different ways. These differences in sound generation require differences in bore shapes, number of toneholes, and playing technique.
The closest instrument to what you are describing is a baroque oboe. The baroque oboe was a continental European court instrument of the 17th and 18th centuries. It doesn't finger like a whistle, but it is completely open and you would be able to play some ornaments more readily than on the Boehm system modern oboe. With the right reed, you can sort of get a sound similar to an uilleann pipe chanter. But it isn't used in trad and its sound wouldn't be considered "trad" by most people. It is lovely for playing things like Bach and Corelli, though.
If you are going to wind up in the looney bin if you never learn to make uilleann pipe sounds, then get a bag bellows and chanter and get on with learning to play uilleann pipes. You may wind up in the looney bin anyway, but at least you tried to avoid it.
Otherwise, content yourself with piping CDs.
# Posted on February 7th 2008 by Hanley
Re: Uilleann Whistle / Reed Whistle
Hanley.
I disagree with you when you say that it does not and cannot exist. There is nothing in physics that prevents the existence of a mouth blown, double reed, open fingering instrument. Sure it will not sound exactly like Uilleann Pipes. Some may see in it small differences and some may see in it HUGE differences. All is very relative. But it CAN exist, if someone invents it properly. Actually, someone just gave me a link to an instrument that MAY be what I want (although I need to get more details from it before knowing for sure):
http://hometown.aol.co.uk/calmontmusic/irishoboe.html
This is actually an Irish Oboe, like the Oboe you describe but with the fingering of whistles and flutes.
Of course it will not sound like any common trad instrument because it is a NEW one
But what I care about is wether or not it "fits" with trad music, for my ear.
I am never said that I am searching for this instrument as a way to avoid learning Uilleann Pipes. I am not discussing the learning of Uilleann Pipes versus playing this other instrument.
# Posted on February 7th 2008 by cesarpim
Re: Uilleann Whistle / Reed Whistle
It's a baroque oboe. It's not trad. If you want to hear baroque oboes find some recordings of period music ensembles. And it won't sound like a pipe chanter because of the difference in playing technique.
And I don't care what it's inventor claims, it can't finger EXACTLY like a flute or a whistle AND be in tune b/c of the way reeds and conical bores work. There will be some differences.
And FWIW it sure as hell sounds to me like you're looking for a way to avoid learning pipes. Suit yourself.
# Posted on February 7th 2008 by Hanley
Re: Uilleann Whistle / Reed Whistle
> And it won't sound like a pipe chanter because of the
> difference in playing technique.
You still didn't understand that I am ok with those differences?
> And I don't care what it's inventor claims, it can't finger
> EXACTLY like a flute or a whistle AND be in tune b/c of the
> way reeds and conical bores work.
Ok so now the inventor is a liar
There is nothing in phisics that makes it impossible. More difficult maybe, different hole sizing and spacing maybe. But impossible, no.
> And FWIW it sure as hell sounds to me like you're looking for
> a way to avoid learning pipes. Suit yourself.
That is up to your imagination. It sure as hell sounds to me like you want to change the topic of this thread
Speaking of which, despite the obvious disadvantages, consider the advantages in portability of such an instrument (for some specific situations) versus a set of Uilleann Pipes.
# Posted on February 7th 2008 by cesarpim
Re: Uilleann Whistle / Reed Whistle
Howbout a kazoo. It's trad in America anyways ;). And cheaper than a penny whistle. Here's a funny link of kazoo and uke (welcome at any session I'm sure).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0KpzujDo7c0. Enjoy! Pat
# Posted on February 7th 2008 by PatrickJWK
Re: Uilleann Whistle / Reed Whistle
Whatever. I'm done with this.
@#$$@%@$%ing dilettantes...
# Posted on February 7th 2008 by Hanley
Re: Uilleann Whistle / Reed Whistle
Wow, Hanley. Don't know if that was for me but I won't join you on a low-level insult-based discussion, mate.
PatrickJWK that video almost made me roll on the floor laughing :D :D :D I'm sure that sounds very very trad hehehe
# Posted on February 7th 2008 by cesarpim
Re: Uilleann Whistle / Reed Whistle
What you want is a bombarde:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bombarde
be advised, NOONE else wants you to have it. ever.
If you're content to sound like a an oboe with a head cold, there's always the crumhorn.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crumhorn
Didn't mean to violate the laws of physics on you, Hanley. I'm just a dilettante. I know what you're saying about conical bore, though, it's just likely that these instruments are close enough to satisfy. Of course they're not identical, but we so rarely get what we want.
# Posted on February 7th 2008 by reenactor
Re: Uilleann Whistle / Reed Whistle
Well I hope I didn't offend anyone- wasn't trying to make fun of anybody, but when I looked for sound clips of some of those medieval cornamithingies they reminded me of kazoo. Just a little humor! (or "humour"). Hope ya find something that works for you.
# Posted on February 8th 2008 by PatrickJWK
Re: Uilleann Whistle / Reed Whistle
This thread confuses me. As an uilleann piper, i can attest that the only way to achieve the sound of uilleann pipes is with uilleann pipes. There is not a double reed wet-blown, conically-bored instrument that is going to sound like it. Sorry. I am also a reed maker and I can tell you that an uilleann chanter reed is going to fold almost immediately as soon as it is wet... it just does not work that way.
BUT, honestly, the bag and bellows are not that big of a deal to get a grasp of... yes the fingering is very different once you really get into it... but bombards, oboes, etc.... do not sound like uilleann pipes, nor allow for the type of ornamentation possible on them that is idiomatic to the pipes. sorry. try a practice set (no such thing as a practice chanter, other than a good burke D whistle!!) and if it does not work, sell it.
# Posted on February 8th 2008 by maze
Re: Uilleann Whistle / Reed Whistle
Cesarpim, I feel the need to defend Hanley here, even though normally I wouldn't get involved in such a ridiculous debate.
In your very first comment you said you were looking for "...a whistle that I can blow directly but makes the wonderful sound of an uilleann pipe."..... but later on when you decided to take offence at Hanley's sound advise you said, regarding something you had found, "...Of course it will not sound like any common trad instrument because it is a NEW one ".
Sounds to me like you got good advise but what you were really looking for was an argument!!!!
The comment above by Maze is 100% true, i.e. "the only way to achieve the sound of uilleann pipes is with uilleann pipes"
# Posted on February 15th 2008 by Eamonn Croke
Re: Uilleann Whistle / Reed Whistle
Well Eamonn,
I admit my initial post might be misleading when I say that I want to have the sound of an uillean pipes. But that doesn't mean that what I wanted was an argument. I simply wanted information.
I later tried to make it more clear what I want, so I said that it doesn't have to be 100% Uilleann sound. To be 100% Uilleann it has to be Uilleann pipes, of course (as maze says).
But I don't need that 100%, is this so difficult to understand?
It appears you, Hanley and maze can think only of either 100% Uilleann or 0% Uilleann. I am thinking of a compromise between a sound that is somewhat similar (yet not fully equal) to Uilleann, yet a more portable instrument (and with whistle fingering).
If you have some information on such an instrument I would be glad to know it. If you don't, ok, it's no problem. But please I am NOT trying to discuss how much such an instrument will sound similar or different to uilleann pipes.
# Posted on March 25th 2008 by cesarpim