All you have to do is blow a bit harder. A good exercise would be to play the low G then slowly increase the air flow until you pop into the second octave. Do the same with the A and the B. You can get the C and the D, but they aren't very nice.
Also, what kind of whistle are you using? Most cheap Generations or Feadogs are terrible in the upper octave. The Walton's Mellow D is a bit better in this respect.
If you do have one of these I would recommend saving up a bit for a Freeman tweaked whistle or a Tony Dixon tunable polymer whistle. Either of these run about $40 or less.
Scales and arpeggio help my whistle students get familiar with the notes, their production, and mental mapping, you want to be able to find the note in your head on the whistle with no time lag.
start at the bottom and work your way up. The high C and D are very tricky to use well, best leave them as rob says.
Try a pattern; 654, 543, 432, 321, 210 016', 16'5', 6'5'4' etc.then say; 456, 354,234,123,012,6'01, 5'6'0' 4'5'6' etc
the ' means you are blowing for the high octave.
good luck
Don't expect it to sound like a flute... It is supposed to have that rough edge, something close to the human voice, something of the banshee about it. Accept what you get, and then learn to control it, to hold it steady and in tune, for example blowing long high notes and keeping them from dieing off or getting too sharp and shrill... Yeah, in the old whislte there is a bit of the wince about the high registry, but it shouldn't be too painful...
I use the high D for the foggy dew in Bm, I just touch the note really, with a short sharp attack. cuts through the chat Its a sharp edge to balance on, if you get my meaning.
Try taking each note, and making it sound good, even beautiful . I learnt the whistle for slow airs really, that plaintive call that can only come from a wind instrument.
Yes it might just be the whistle.
The mass-produced "cheapie" whistles with the moulded plastic tops show little or no quality control.
But, the statement "most Generations are terrible in the upper octave" is not the case.
I tested a batch of two dozen new Generation D's, and found that one was a fantastic player, another was nearly as good, two or three others were quite good, three or four were all but unplayable, and the rest were OK but not great.
Another guy tested 200 Generations and found that 6% were very good and 6% were horrid, the rest being in the middle.
So it's best to test as many as you can and find that one-in-a-dozen great player.
But assuming the whistle itself is OK, I would practice octaves:
bottom D to middle D and back
low E to high E and back
low F# to high F# and back
and so forth up to B.
High B (that is, B in the 2nd register) is usually the highest note found in traditional Irish tunes. You should also be able to get a high C:
oxo xxx
whereas the low C would be:
oxx ooo
or
oxx xox
I had the same problem getting those notes above g. Thing is, as you get better at playing in general those notes will come out of even a cheap whistle easily and nicely.
Some things to try:
1. Try attaching those notes with a little tonguing. Sometimes they don't want to slip in without a little nudge. Eventually you may learn to play them without tonguing.
2. Try to get those notes playing as quietly as possible. Believe it or not, sometimes you can get them with less air. Try reshaping your throat more open and see what happens.
Seamus, good, so you already have some idea of where to go.
There is another thing that can cause whistles to be awful, especially in the high registry, and that is a thing called 'flash', it is rough plastic overflow from the molding of the head, not uncommon with Generation style whistles. It is usually paper thin. Look down the windway and check around the window and the knife edge (the bit that breaks your air and leads to the vibrations that are sound. Sometimes just a very careful removal of those rough skirts of plastic can make a huge difference... Be careful of the knife edge if that is the case. If it is old and has been sitting around it might also just need a good clean. Check for cracking too. Another thing, which has in the past also lead to improvements (Willie Clancy's favourite whistle for airs) is the effect of heat or pressure, which can change the shape of the windway and where the knife edge lies down that passage... These are all crazy things, but in the making, or in time, faults can happen...rarely for the better...
If you've any experienced whistle players near you, just ask. Most would be more than willing to help or expess an opinion...
I used to play whistle in the band of a North West Clog side whose number could vary between 2 and 12 musicians. So to be heard I would regularly and almost entirely use the 'second'
octave..it can be done on a Generation but somehow I found it would go 'out of tune' and sound even more nasty; until I had the good fortune to be given a Susato which has been utterly reliable and tuneful if piercing! After some years of playing I found it possible to use the first few notes (up to the G on a D whistle) of the 'third' octave, admittedly it wasn't pretty but it definitely 'carried' to the back of the dancers set.
I guess North West sides will be thin on the ground in your part of the world but it is definitely worth persisting in your effort to get that second octave if you can find a tolerant environment to practice your art in. Good luck
This is where you find out if you have a proper whistle or not. If you have tried some of the alternate fingerings and the tonguing tricks mentioned above, sometimes the whistle can't do it. When I got serious with the whistle I was frustrated because I could not get anywhere near third octave.
After many purchases, I found the Generations were cr*p. The Susatos worked but were shrill and found and Oak D that was ok, but the C and G were worthless.
Herself and the kids were embarrased because I bought whistles everywhere I went. Cheapies may not be cheap when you buy alot of them..
So I bought a Michael Burke D for a ton of money and hit the third octave clear every time. And for less typical keys like Bflat and Eflat, I bought some Susatos S series and they work fine.
Knoss mentions hitting the third octave and its affect on the dancers.
The first time I used the Burke and had to play County Down for an event associated with the High Holy day- Em- I did a transition on the closing to the third octave ending on a high E...dead on. But is was clear as a bell and the leader turned an looked at me with a look of amazement.
A musical great who once played with us was asked by a tourist one night how you played the whistle. "You f'###ing blow it" was the maestro's succinct answer.
On closer examination he was right. The notes you are talking about sound awful to beginners, so they are afraid to blow hard, and you need to blow hard. Confidence is all that is required.
Seamus, it's probably the whistle, not you. I'd highly recommend a Tony Dixon, the tunable type. Sweet, smooth transition to the next octave. You'll love it. Won't "croak" on you or force you to "f'*$#'ing" blow it" too hard thus making a spectacle of yourself. Have fun.
It is not the whistle, bad workman blaming tools and all that, you simply need the confidence and perseverance to blow it hard, I have seen hundreds, including myself, suffer from the same problem.
Getting "Up There"
Getting "Up There"
My self-paced whistle instruction is going well. As long as I stay in the "1st Octave" (D1-D2).
E2-F2 I'm decent with--above there, don't ask:(
So how do I "get over" this hurdle?
# Posted on January 24th 2008 by Seamus DAngelo
Re: Getting "Up There"
All you have to do is blow a bit harder. A good exercise would be to play the low G then slowly increase the air flow until you pop into the second octave. Do the same with the A and the B. You can get the C and the D, but they aren't very nice.
Also, what kind of whistle are you using? Most cheap Generations or Feadogs are terrible in the upper octave. The Walton's Mellow D is a bit better in this respect.
If you do have one of these I would recommend saving up a bit for a Freeman tweaked whistle or a Tony Dixon tunable polymer whistle. Either of these run about $40 or less.
# Posted on January 24th 2008 by rob_handel
Re: Getting "Up There"
Scales and arpeggio help my whistle students get familiar with the notes, their production, and mental mapping, you want to be able to find the note in your head on the whistle with no time lag.
start at the bottom and work your way up. The high C and D are very tricky to use well, best leave them as rob says.
Try a pattern; 654, 543, 432, 321, 210 016', 16'5', 6'5'4' etc.then say; 456, 354,234,123,012,6'01, 5'6'0' 4'5'6' etc
the ' means you are blowing for the high octave.
good luck
# Posted on January 24th 2008 by jig
Re: Getting "Up There"
Don't expect it to sound like a flute... It is supposed to have that rough edge, something close to the human voice, something of the banshee about it. Accept what you get, and then learn to control it, to hold it steady and in tune, for example blowing long high notes and keeping them from dieing off or getting too sharp and shrill... Yeah, in the old whislte there is a bit of the wince about the high registry, but it shouldn't be too painful...
# Posted on January 24th 2008 by ceolachan
Re: Getting "Up There"
Unless it's a Susato. Those really high notes can be a killer.
# Posted on January 24th 2008 by mickray
Re: Getting "Up There"
I use the high D for the foggy dew in Bm, I just touch the note really, with a short sharp attack. cuts through the chat
Its a sharp edge to balance on, if you get my meaning.
Try taking each note, and making it sound good, even beautiful . I learnt the whistle for slow airs really, that plaintive call that can only come from a wind instrument.
# Posted on January 24th 2008 by jig
Re: Getting "Up There"
Yes it might just be the whistle.
The mass-produced "cheapie" whistles with the moulded plastic tops show little or no quality control.
But, the statement "most Generations are terrible in the upper octave" is not the case.
I tested a batch of two dozen new Generation D's, and found that one was a fantastic player, another was nearly as good, two or three others were quite good, three or four were all but unplayable, and the rest were OK but not great.
Another guy tested 200 Generations and found that 6% were very good and 6% were horrid, the rest being in the middle.
So it's best to test as many as you can and find that one-in-a-dozen great player.
But assuming the whistle itself is OK, I would practice octaves:
bottom D to middle D and back
low E to high E and back
low F# to high F# and back
and so forth up to B.
High B (that is, B in the 2nd register) is usually the highest note found in traditional Irish tunes. You should also be able to get a high C:
oxo xxx
whereas the low C would be:
oxx ooo
or
oxx xox
# Posted on January 24th 2008 by Richard D Cook
Re: Getting "Up There"
1. I don't know where I bought the whistle--I found it while I was cleaning out my closet. I think I picked it up for $15-$20 @ a ren faire.
2. A lot of this sounds like stuff I had to do when I was playing Clarinet in High School
# Posted on January 24th 2008 by Seamus DAngelo
Re: Getting "Up There"
I had the same problem getting those notes above g. Thing is, as you get better at playing in general those notes will come out of even a cheap whistle easily and nicely.
Some things to try:
1. Try attaching those notes with a little tonguing. Sometimes they don't want to slip in without a little nudge. Eventually you may learn to play them without tonguing.
2. Try to get those notes playing as quietly as possible. Believe it or not, sometimes you can get them with less air. Try reshaping your throat more open and see what happens.
# Posted on January 24th 2008 by sbhikes
Re: Getting "Up There"
Seamus, good, so you already have some idea of where to go.
There is another thing that can cause whistles to be awful, especially in the high registry, and that is a thing called 'flash', it is rough plastic overflow from the molding of the head, not uncommon with Generation style whistles. It is usually paper thin. Look down the windway and check around the window and the knife edge (the bit that breaks your air and leads to the vibrations that are sound. Sometimes just a very careful removal of those rough skirts of plastic can make a huge difference... Be careful of the knife edge if that is the case. If it is old and has been sitting around it might also just need a good clean. Check for cracking too. Another thing, which has in the past also lead to improvements (Willie Clancy's favourite whistle for airs) is the effect of heat or pressure, which can change the shape of the windway and where the knife edge lies down that passage... These are all crazy things, but in the making, or in time, faults can happen...rarely for the better...
If you've any experienced whistle players near you, just ask. Most would be more than willing to help or expess an opinion...
# Posted on January 24th 2008 by ceolachan
Re: Getting "Up There"
I used to play whistle in the band of a North West Clog side whose number could vary between 2 and 12 musicians. So to be heard I would regularly and almost entirely use the 'second'
octave..it can be done on a Generation but somehow I found it would go 'out of tune' and sound even more nasty; until I had the good fortune to be given a Susato which has been utterly reliable and tuneful if piercing! After some years of playing I found it possible to use the first few notes (up to the G on a D whistle) of the 'third' octave, admittedly it wasn't pretty but it definitely 'carried' to the back of the dancers set.
I guess North West sides will be thin on the ground in your part of the world but it is definitely worth persisting in your effort to get that second octave if you can find a tolerant environment to practice your art in. Good luck
# Posted on January 24th 2008 by john knoss
Re: Getting "Up There"
This is where you find out if you have a proper whistle or not. If you have tried some of the alternate fingerings and the tonguing tricks mentioned above, sometimes the whistle can't do it. When I got serious with the whistle I was frustrated because I could not get anywhere near third octave.
After many purchases, I found the Generations were cr*p. The Susatos worked but were shrill and found and Oak D that was ok, but the C and G were worthless.
Herself and the kids were embarrased because I bought whistles everywhere I went. Cheapies may not be cheap when you buy alot of them..
So I bought a Michael Burke D for a ton of money and hit the third octave clear every time. And for less typical keys like Bflat and Eflat, I bought some Susatos S series and they work fine.
# Posted on January 25th 2008 by zippydw
Re: Getting "Up There"
Knoss mentions hitting the third octave and its affect on the dancers.
The first time I used the Burke and had to play County Down for an event associated with the High Holy day- Em- I did a transition on the closing to the third octave ending on a high E...dead on. But is was clear as a bell and the leader turned an looked at me with a look of amazement.
# Posted on January 25th 2008 by zippydw
Re: Getting "Up There"
A musical great who once played with us was asked by a tourist one night how you played the whistle. "You f'###ing blow it" was the maestro's succinct answer.
On closer examination he was right. The notes you are talking about sound awful to beginners, so they are afraid to blow hard, and you need to blow hard. Confidence is all that is required.
# Posted on January 26th 2008 by bodhran bliss
Re: Getting "Up There"
BB,
Amen to that answer, I've been laughing my head off, made my day.
cheers
# Posted on January 26th 2008 by john knoss
Re: Getting "Up There"
Seamus, it's probably the whistle, not you. I'd highly recommend a Tony Dixon, the tunable type. Sweet, smooth transition to the next octave. You'll love it. Won't "croak" on you or force you to "f'*$#'ing" blow it" too hard thus making a spectacle of yourself. Have fun.
# Posted on January 26th 2008 by justwhistle
Re: Getting "Up There"
Thank you John.
It is not the whistle, bad workman blaming tools and all that, you simply need the confidence and perseverance to blow it hard, I have seen hundreds, including myself, suffer from the same problem.
# Posted on January 27th 2008 by bodhran bliss
Re: Getting "Up There"
just and bodharan:
We shall see who is right.
# Posted on January 27th 2008 by Seamus DAngelo