I've been reading the archives, so please believe me, I know what people mean by swung and unswung reel playing, and I know more than I need to about who likes which and what opinions people hold about it. Enough has been written about those.
What I would like to know more about - and those of you with very broad listening experience might be able to answer - is the regional (and temporal) distribution of these styles. Anyone kind and knowledgeable enough to offer an informed summary?
I've been interested in this one for a while, and I apologise if I'm repeating stuff you specifically asked not for.
I think there was a day and age when the amount of swing was a personal style. (I equate regional styles with personal styles because the so called regions are dominated by individuals). But now I think that individuals should be flexible.
There's a Kevin Burke record, for example where he plays some reel with some moothies and it's swung like heck and it's great. And on the same record he plays a set with Matt Molloy as straight as a two stroke BSA. Both are brilliant.
Quote:
<What I would like to know more about - and those of you with very broad listening experience might be able to answer - is the regional (and temporal) distribution of these styles. Anyone kind and knowledgeable enough to offer an informed summary? >
Not trying to be cheeky or whatever but I think the best way to get your answer is to gain the broad listening experience yourself. Firstly it is because the variables of the subject are too complex and undefined - what sort of swing (rhythm is not just divided into two - swung or unswung), how are you going to define temporal and regional boundaries, etc. Not to say there aren't any trends mind you. Another thing is having someone tell you so-and-so region plays with X amount of swing doesn't really give you anything but the most superficial understanding of how things are. You won't get anything much out of it apart from being able to parrot what you read. No short cuts to this I'm afraid.
The lickin' stick should not be confused with the licquorice stick, usually confined to trad jazz and dance bands.
Personally I greatly enjoy reels with a bit of swing, not that I can always do this myself ( It's old age, doctor, I canna stop it ! ) ( Or start it. )
So, Lingpupa, you still lack the musical maturity to understand what I just told you. I see. Thanks for letting me know that. But still I'm not going to break it down into kiddy terms for you. Like I said, you'll gain a better understanding to what you're asking from listening to a wide variety of musicians yourself.
I'm sorry Lingpupppa, but Eldaron is right. It's a chaotic system (as in chaos theory - in that a system is said to be chaotic when any attempt to model it produces a model that is as complex as the system itself) (Nothing to do with the common misconception of randomness)
There was a harp player who posted here for a while who had made a study of the amount of different musician's swing and made a table/graph of the results. Pure bonkers stupid. Just listen to the first three bars of Liz Carroll playing her "lost in the loop" tune as an illustration.
Dear Llig,
Look, I know it's chaotic, I know the difference between chaos and "randomness", and I know that only many years of unusually wide, informed listening would enable someone to answer my question. I know that having the answer would not be a "short cut" to anything in particular. I don't know, on the other hand, what Eldaron imagines my own experience and listening has been, or why he imagines I want things in "kiddy" terms, why he assumes that I "lack musical maturity", nor why he imagines that I am looking for some kind of short cut to something. His response is full of red herrings: the issue is complex, difficulty of defining boundaries, knowledge of a few indivual cases (nearly all of us probably have that knowledge) not enough to generalize on, etc., etc.. But none of these address my question. He does say "Not to say there aren't any trends mind you", but does not tell us what he thinks those trends are, although that "would" precisely be an answer to my question.
The fact remains that my initial question is a perfectly straightforward one. If there were someone with sufficient knowledge they would be perfectly able to give a brief answer in a few lines (or, for that matter, write a thesis or a book about it also, I dare say). Perhaps Eldaron is one of those rare people, but as he has chosen to raise a lot of other issues rather than answer, I assume that he is not. It would be nice to be wrong.
Swung reels - not quite again
Swung reels - not quite again
I've been reading the archives, so please believe me, I know what people mean by swung and unswung reel playing, and I know more than I need to about who likes which and what opinions people hold about it. Enough has been written about those.
What I would like to know more about - and those of you with very broad listening experience might be able to answer - is the regional (and temporal) distribution of these styles. Anyone kind and knowledgeable enough to offer an informed summary?
# Posted on January 18th 2008 by Lingpupa
Re: Swung reels - not quite again
I've been interested in this one for a while, and I apologise if I'm repeating stuff you specifically asked not for.
I think there was a day and age when the amount of swing was a personal style. (I equate regional styles with personal styles because the so called regions are dominated by individuals). But now I think that individuals should be flexible.
There's a Kevin Burke record, for example where he plays some reel with some moothies and it's swung like heck and it's great. And on the same record he plays a set with Matt Molloy as straight as a two stroke BSA. Both are brilliant.
# Posted on January 18th 2008 by llig leahcim
Re: Swung reels - not quite again
Sorry, Michael, I am ignorant, but who are "moothies"? Please translate.
# Posted on January 18th 2008 by Clear Drops
Re: Swung reels - not quite again
I believe it means 'mouth organ' (thanks, Mr Google)
# Posted on January 18th 2008 by Hup
Re: Swung reels - not quite again
"The moothies" so must be the Murphy's from Wexford and the recording must be "Up Close".
# Posted on January 18th 2008 by Henk Bos
Re: Swung reels - not quite again
A "moothie" is a uniquely Scottish instrument which closely resembles the harmonica, the tin sandwich and the lickin' stick.
# Posted on January 18th 2008 by Bren
Re: Swung reels - not quite again
What's a two stroke BSA? A two stroke boy scout?
# Posted on January 18th 2008 by sbhikes
Re: Swung reels - not quite again
# Posted on January 18th 2008 by joesmith
Re: Swung reels - not quite again
More like an Indian or an early model Harley, sbhikes.
Birmingham Small Arms made (makes?) rifles, motorcycles, and who knows what else.
# Posted on January 18th 2008 by oldstrings
Re: Swung reels - not quite again
Quote:
<What I would like to know more about - and those of you with very broad listening experience might be able to answer - is the regional (and temporal) distribution of these styles. Anyone kind and knowledgeable enough to offer an informed summary? >
Not trying to be cheeky or whatever but I think the best way to get your answer is to gain the broad listening experience yourself. Firstly it is because the variables of the subject are too complex and undefined - what sort of swing (rhythm is not just divided into two - swung or unswung), how are you going to define temporal and regional boundaries, etc. Not to say there aren't any trends mind you. Another thing is having someone tell you so-and-so region plays with X amount of swing doesn't really give you anything but the most superficial understanding of how things are. You won't get anything much out of it apart from being able to parrot what you read. No short cuts to this I'm afraid.
# Posted on January 20th 2008 by Eldarion
Re: Swung reels - not quite again
So, Eldarion, you don't know either. I see. Thanks for letting me know that.
# Posted on January 20th 2008 by Lingpupa
Re: Swung reels - not quite again
The lickin' stick should not be confused with the licquorice stick, usually confined to trad jazz and dance bands.
Personally I greatly enjoy reels with a bit of swing, not that I can always do this myself ( It's old age, doctor, I canna stop it ! ) ( Or start it. )
# Posted on January 21st 2008 by Guernsey Pete
Re: Swung reels - not quite again
So, Lingpupa, you still lack the musical maturity to understand what I just told you. I see. Thanks for letting me know that. But still I'm not going to break it down into kiddy terms for you. Like I said, you'll gain a better understanding to what you're asking from listening to a wide variety of musicians yourself.
# Posted on January 21st 2008 by Eldarion
Re: Swung reels - not quite again
So, Eldarion, you've also let me know what a presumptuous, patronising person you are. End of conversation.
# Posted on January 21st 2008 by Lingpupa
Re: Swung reels - not quite again
oooh, a spat ... can I join in?
I'm sorry Lingpupppa, but Eldaron is right. It's a chaotic system (as in chaos theory - in that a system is said to be chaotic when any attempt to model it produces a model that is as complex as the system itself) (Nothing to do with the common misconception of randomness)
There was a harp player who posted here for a while who had made a study of the amount of different musician's swing and made a table/graph of the results. Pure bonkers stupid. Just listen to the first three bars of Liz Carroll playing her "lost in the loop" tune as an illustration.
Eldaron is right, there is no short cut
# Posted on January 22nd 2008 by llig leahcim
Re: Swung reels - not quite again
Dear Llig,
Look, I know it's chaotic, I know the difference between chaos and "randomness", and I know that only many years of unusually wide, informed listening would enable someone to answer my question. I know that having the answer would not be a "short cut" to anything in particular. I don't know, on the other hand, what Eldaron imagines my own experience and listening has been, or why he imagines I want things in "kiddy" terms, why he assumes that I "lack musical maturity", nor why he imagines that I am looking for some kind of short cut to something. His response is full of red herrings: the issue is complex, difficulty of defining boundaries, knowledge of a few indivual cases (nearly all of us probably have that knowledge) not enough to generalize on, etc., etc.. But none of these address my question. He does say "Not to say there aren't any trends mind you", but does not tell us what he thinks those trends are, although that "would" precisely be an answer to my question.
The fact remains that my initial question is a perfectly straightforward one. If there were someone with sufficient knowledge they would be perfectly able to give a brief answer in a few lines (or, for that matter, write a thesis or a book about it also, I dare say). Perhaps Eldaron is one of those rare people, but as he has chosen to raise a lot of other issues rather than answer, I assume that he is not. It would be nice to be wrong.
# Posted on January 22nd 2008 by Lingpupa
Re: Swung reels - not quite again
http://www.irishfiddle.com/article_on_styles1.html
http://www.irishfiddle.com/article_on_styles2.html
http://www.irishfiddle.com/article_on_styles3.html
# Posted on January 22nd 2008 by joesmith
Re: Swung reels - not quite again
Thanks, Laitch, that's more like it - not the specific answer, but helpful
# Posted on January 22nd 2008 by Lingpupa