Re: Does practicing scales and arpeggios enhance your performance at a session?
Let's see, the last time I intentionally played a scale or an arpeggio was when I was a child, learning classical music under Drill Sergeant Carroll, bless his strict, grumpy and cantankerous soul.
"NOW YOU DROP AND GIMME 20 SCALES, MAGGOT! HUP TWO THREE FOUR!"
Short answer: No, because I don't play them anymore.
Re: Does practicing scales and arpeggios enhance your performance at a session?
Not to be a stick in the mud, but hasn't this "scales and arpeggios" debate been posted ad nauseam in the past three weeks? I seem to remember several scathing replies by Llig condemning the concept. Maybe I'm just confusing those posts with other scathing condemnations by Llig....
The argument seemed to be that one's time would be better spent just playing / learning tunes.
Re: Does practicing scales and arpeggios enhance your performance at a session?
Seeing as how many of us did scales and arpeggios as children, when our brains were soft and spongy and ready to absorb way more information than they do now, how can you say that scales and arpeggios are of no worth. They've already worked their magic on you. It's your choice if you wish to keep doing them. I can't see how they can hurt. If nothing else, your fingers will build some nimbleness.
And why the heck do you care if anybody else does them? They're not playing them at the session, but in the privacy of their own homes. Do you care what people do in bed, too?
Re: Does practicing scales and arpeggios enhance your performance at a session?
Oh, sorry. What I meant to convey was this. Does practicing scales and arpeggios *at a session* enhance your performance?
In the same way as viagra might enhance (not that I would know, of course, you understand........)
Re: Does practicing scales and arpeggios enhance your performance at a session?
I practice at home. I play at the session, though of course i also play at home. I play a lot of scales and arpeggio at a session because the tunes are full of them. I got better at my tunes through getting better at my scales etc.
Sessions are for playing what you have practised no? rather than practising what you haven't played....
Re: Does practicing scales and arpeggios enhance your performance at a session?
But isn't it possible to do a Performance of just Scales and Arpeggios at a Session? Forget about all those silly little Celtic tunes which get in the way of Performing Arpeggios.
Re: Does practicing scales and arpeggios enhance your performance at a session?
Ha ha, my how amusing, why, I had never thought of that. .....
Sessions are not the place for technical exercises are they? Any how, are you suggesting sessions are a place for 'performing'?
Drills and technical exercises have their place in any traditional system. The session is where we put together the benefits gained from the drills , the isolation exercises, repetitions, etc and just play, unconfined[hopefully/eventually? ] by technical shortcomings.
You dont play a tune a20-30-40 times slowly at a session, though you might at home. You dont just play that tricky bar of a tune over and over at a session do you, but you might at home.
So you see, we have different ideas of which technical exercises are valid, but I think we can agree some are. yes?
Re: Does practicing scales and arpeggios enhance your performance at a session?
Interesting link, SWFL. Didn't know this kind of thing could be DIY:
"After some time there was an ominous sounding schlurp and the sound of bubbling. I drew the trepan out and the gurgling continued. It sounded like air bubbles running under the skull as they were pressed out. I looked at the trepan and there was a bit of bone in it. At last!"
Re: Does practicing scales and arpeggios enhance your performance at a session?
I've found that playing Irish jigs and reels has greatly improved the speed, accuracy and beauty of my scales and arpeggios, but unfortunately only in a couple of keys. Does anyone have any suggestions for ethnic music that might help me be a more well-rounded player of scales and arpeggios?
Re: Does practicing scales and arpeggios enhance your performance at a session?
I have the same problem Cuchulain. Scottish music doesn't use all the notes either. Maybe we can try parts 1. and 2. of the above thread.... http://www.thesession.org/discussions/display/16419 , How about a jam session as well as well as tunes? We could all get together and invent tunes, to an pub audience of course, with all of the notes in them. It would improve our scales no end.
Re: Does practicing scales and arpeggios enhance your performance at a session?
Yes I think they're essential. Usually at a session we will do 2 octaves up a scale then 2 down and repeat twice more then whoever has started the set will move into a new key for the next scales. There is nothing like the buzz when we all move into the same key at the same time.
The guitarists all play arpeggios of course and if they try to substitute a relative minor at the wrong time we cut their strings with pliers.
Re: Does practicing scales and arpeggios enhance your performance at a session?
2 octaves scales - is that all you do? It should be 3 up and down at the very least, 3-octave arpeggios likewise. Then, to finish off the warm-up, a 3-1/2 octave chromatic scale starting on the open G and done on one bow.
The advanced players will of course continue the warm-up with scales in stopped harmonics, while the others listen, admire and learn.
Re: Does practicing scales and arpeggios enhance your performance at a session?
Seriously though, what use is a chromatic scale, I know we used to do it for guitar , but where might it be applied? Bass lines I could see but for top line melody work? Just curious. I cant see it having much relevance to trad either, but Im happy to keep an open mind.
Re: Does practicing scales and arpeggios enhance your performance at a session?
To put things in perspective, in 7 years I've never practised scales or arpeggios for fiddle playing - everything you need is within the music. Classical violin playing ... now that would be a different matter. And no, I haven't done any classical violin playing whatsoever until the last few months (I'm now with a Suzuki teacher who was taught by the Master himself).
In my days as a student cellist I had to do 4-octave scales on one bow up, and the same coming back down. So 3-1/2 octaves on one bow on the violin (not fiddle) isn't really quite the joke it appeared to be in my previous post. But having said that, 4-octave scales on the cello are ergonomically a tad easier than their equivalent on the violin.
Re: Does practicing scales and arpeggios enhance your performance at a session?
Fair enough, but lazy, playing scales trains the brain not just the fingers. You already spent decades getting proficient with the bow, another main reason for scale work on the fiddle. plus tone production. so you already arrived at the fiddle with a lot of your technical work done. your mind and your right hand. all that you need to do is adjust your left hand, string approach. and learn some tunes. Try playing the fiddle left handed. Now lets see if you just play tunes Thats what it is like for a beginer.. Try just playing tunes on a set of pipes and see how far you get.
Does practicing scales and arpeggios enhance your performance at a session?
Does practicing scales and arpeggios enhance your performance at a session?
Well, does it?
# Posted on January 17th 2008 by Key Maniac Lad
Re: Does practicing scales and arpeggios enhance your performance at a session?
Let's see, the last time I intentionally played a scale or an arpeggio was when I was a child, learning classical music under Drill Sergeant Carroll, bless his strict, grumpy and cantankerous soul.
"NOW YOU DROP AND GIMME 20 SCALES, MAGGOT! HUP TWO THREE FOUR!"
Short answer: No, because I don't play them anymore.
# Posted on January 17th 2008 by SWFL Fiddler
Re: Does practicing scales and arpeggios enhance your performance at a session?
oh thats it.. I'm going to hide in the hotpress now..... you brung it on yourself Danny, you brung it on yourself!!!
# Posted on January 17th 2008 by session savage
Re: Does practicing scales and arpeggios enhance your performance at a session?
Not to be a stick in the mud, but hasn't this "scales and arpeggios" debate been posted ad nauseam in the past three weeks? I seem to remember several scathing replies by Llig condemning the concept. Maybe I'm just confusing those posts with other scathing condemnations by Llig....
The argument seemed to be that one's time would be better spent just playing / learning tunes.
# Posted on January 17th 2008 by Jusa Nutter Eejit
Re: Does practicing scales and arpeggios enhance your performance at a session?
Seeing as how many of us did scales and arpeggios as children, when our brains were soft and spongy and ready to absorb way more information than they do now, how can you say that scales and arpeggios are of no worth. They've already worked their magic on you. It's your choice if you wish to keep doing them. I can't see how they can hurt. If nothing else, your fingers will build some nimbleness.
And why the heck do you care if anybody else does them? They're not playing them at the session, but in the privacy of their own homes. Do you care what people do in bed, too?
# Posted on January 17th 2008 by sbhikes
Re: Does practicing scales and arpeggios enhance your performance at a session?
Oh, sorry. What I meant to convey was this. Does practicing scales and arpeggios *at a session* enhance your performance?
In the same way as viagra might enhance (not that I would know, of course, you understand........)
# Posted on January 17th 2008 by Key Maniac Lad
Re: Does practicing scales and arpeggios enhance your performance at a session?
BTW, my brain is still soft and spongy. At least it was the last time I stuck a pencil in my ear.........
# Posted on January 17th 2008 by Key Maniac Lad
Re: Does practicing scales and arpeggios enhance your performance at a session?
I practice at home. I play at the session, though of course i also play at home. I play a lot of scales and arpeggio at a session because the tunes are full of them. I got better at my tunes through getting better at my scales etc.
Sessions are for playing what you have practised no? rather than practising what you haven't played....
# Posted on January 17th 2008 by jig
Re: Does practicing scales and arpeggios enhance your performance at a session?
But isn't it possible to do a Performance of just Scales and Arpeggios at a Session? Forget about all those silly little Celtic tunes which get in the way of Performing Arpeggios.
# Posted on January 17th 2008 by Key Maniac Lad
Re: Does practicing scales and arpeggios enhance your performance at a session?
Ha ha, my how amusing, why, I had never thought of that. .....
Sessions are not the place for technical exercises are they? Any how, are you suggesting sessions are a place for 'performing'?
Drills and technical exercises have their place in any traditional system. The session is where we put together the benefits gained from the drills , the isolation exercises, repetitions, etc and just play, unconfined[hopefully/eventually? ] by technical shortcomings.
You dont play a tune a20-30-40 times slowly at a session, though you might at home. You dont just play that tricky bar of a tune over and over at a session do you, but you might at home.
So you see, we have different ideas of which technical exercises are valid, but I think we can agree some are. yes?
# Posted on January 17th 2008 by jig
Re: Does practicing scales and arpeggios enhance your performance at a session?
hitachi drills are better than suzuki
http://www.tooled-up.com/Product.asp?PID=88049&Referrer=Froogle
# Posted on January 17th 2008 by Key Maniac Lad
Re: Does practicing scales and arpeggios enhance your performance at a session?
They can't be any worse than this kind of drill:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trepanation
# Posted on January 17th 2008 by SWFL Fiddler
Re: Does practicing scales and arpeggios enhance your performance at a session?
That's one way of getting it into your head - and it looks less painful than endlessly knocking out endless Scales and Arps
# Posted on January 17th 2008 by Key Maniac Lad
Re: Does practicing scales and arpeggios enhance your performance at a session?
Only if you want to bully people.
# Posted on January 17th 2008 by bodhran bliss
Re: Does practicing scales and arpeggios enhance your performance at a session?
Interesting link, SWFL. Didn't know this kind of thing could be DIY:
"After some time there was an ominous sounding schlurp and the sound of bubbling. I drew the trepan out and the gurgling continued. It sounded like air bubbles running under the skull as they were pressed out. I looked at the trepan and there was a bit of bone in it. At last!"
# Posted on January 17th 2008 by Ramiro
Re: Dose practicing scales and arpeggios enhance your public performance at a session when you're noodling and playing bodhran?
Danny, as you might have already noticed I altered the title of this thread to evoked more controversy by making it more all-inclusive.
# Posted on January 17th 2008 by Phantom Button
Re: Does practicing scales and arpeggios enhance your performance at a session?
Thanks Ramiro. I find it fascinating, however I'm no proponent.
I have enough holes in my head already.
# Posted on January 17th 2008 by SWFL Fiddler
Re: Does practicing scales and arpeggios enhance your performance at a session?
I've found that playing Irish jigs and reels has greatly improved the speed, accuracy and beauty of my scales and arpeggios, but unfortunately only in a couple of keys. Does anyone have any suggestions for ethnic music that might help me be a more well-rounded player of scales and arpeggios?
# Posted on January 17th 2008 by cuchulain54
Re: Does practicing scales and arpeggios enhance your performance at a session?
I have the same problem Cuchulain. Scottish music doesn't use all the notes either. Maybe we can try parts 1. and 2. of the above thread.... http://www.thesession.org/discussions/display/16419 , How about a jam session as well as well as tunes? We could all get together and invent tunes, to an pub audience of course, with all of the notes in them. It would improve our scales no end.
# Posted on January 17th 2008 by bogman
Re: Does practicing scales and arpeggios enhance your performance at a session?
Whoa! Scroll back ...
Danny ... are you saying you use Viagra to improve your performance at your session?
# Posted on January 18th 2008 by benhall.1
Re: Does practicing scales and arpeggios enhance your performance at a session?
Yes I think they're essential. Usually at a session we will do 2 octaves up a scale then 2 down and repeat twice more then whoever has started the set will move into a new key for the next scales. There is nothing like the buzz when we all move into the same key at the same time.
The guitarists all play arpeggios of course and if they try to substitute a relative minor at the wrong time we cut their strings with pliers.
# Posted on January 18th 2008 by Rob
Re: Does practicing scales and arpeggios enhance your performance at a session?
2 octaves scales - is that all you do? It should be 3 up and down at the very least, 3-octave arpeggios likewise. Then, to finish off the warm-up, a 3-1/2 octave chromatic scale starting on the open G and done on one bow.
The advanced players will of course continue the warm-up with scales in stopped harmonics, while the others listen, admire and learn.
# Posted on January 18th 2008 by lazyhound
Re: Does practicing scales and arpeggios enhance your performance at a session?
...the 3 chrome who now with the scale in stop wha...? [drools, looks vacant]
# Posted on January 18th 2008 by SWFL Fiddler
Re: Does practicing scales and arpeggios enhance your performance at a session?
Wince! yes sir..... gulp.
# Posted on January 18th 2008 by jig
Re: Does practicing scales and arpeggios enhance your performance at a session?
Seriously though, what use is a chromatic scale, I know we used to do it for guitar , but where might it be applied? Bass lines I could see but for top line melody work? Just curious. I cant see it having much relevance to trad either, but Im happy to keep an open mind.
# Posted on January 18th 2008 by jig
Re: Does practicing scales and arpeggios enhance your performance at a session?
'2 octaves scales - is that all you do? '
well,Trevor-to be fair to Rob,he did n't say on what note the scales start!
so if they begin on the 'A' an 8ve above the open 'A' i for one would let him off the lower 8ve of that scale.haha!
re chromatics,well it's nice that someone does them.lol
but in answer to your question,Danny-NO!
i would only do scales on the viola because that is essential in the type of music i have to play on that instrument...which reminds me...
# Posted on January 18th 2008 by biggus dave
Re: Does practicing scales and arpeggios enhance your performance at a session?
To put things in perspective, in 7 years I've never practised scales or arpeggios for fiddle playing - everything you need is within the music. Classical violin playing ... now that would be a different matter. And no, I haven't done any classical violin playing whatsoever until the last few months (I'm now with a Suzuki teacher who was taught by the Master himself).
In my days as a student cellist I had to do 4-octave scales on one bow up, and the same coming back down. So 3-1/2 octaves on one bow on the violin (not fiddle) isn't really quite the joke it appeared to be in my previous post. But having said that, 4-octave scales on the cello are ergonomically a tad easier than their equivalent on the violin.
# Posted on January 18th 2008 by lazyhound
Re: Does practicing scales and arpeggios enhance your performance at a session?
Fair enough, but lazy, playing scales trains the brain not just the fingers. You already spent decades getting proficient with the bow, another main reason for scale work on the fiddle. plus tone production. so you already arrived at the fiddle with a lot of your technical work done. your mind and your right hand. all that you need to do is adjust your left hand, string approach. and learn some tunes. Try playing the fiddle left handed. Now lets see if you just play tunes
Thats what it is like for a beginer.. Try just playing tunes on a set of pipes and see how far you get.
# Posted on January 18th 2008 by jig
Re: Does practicing scales and arpeggios enhance your performance at a session?
Yes, Jig, I have sometimes tried playing left-handed, to remind myself of what it was like to be a beginner.
# Posted on January 18th 2008 by lazyhound
Re: Does practicing scales and arpeggios enhance your performance at a session?
s...youplayed a tune? or a scale?
# Posted on January 18th 2008 by jig
Re: Does practicing scales and arpeggios enhance your performance at a session?
My drills are Milwaukees.
just kidding. I need scales arpeggios more on piano than box at my age not so much for technique but for getting the fingers loose a bit.
# Posted on January 18th 2008 by zippydw